What can be done?

[nwahogfan1]

Our bigger football conferences seem to have just a small number of schools competing for conference championships every year while the other schools are never in the picture.  What or can anything be done?  Can they recruit better without cheating to be elite?  Find the money somehow to  Build bigger/better facilities? Better coaches without breaking the bank?   How does teams like Arkansas get into that small elite group? 

[sickboy]

Capitalism baby. The rich get richer and the poor stay poor.

Don't think there's much you can do to change the ecosystem and create more parity, unless you have more regulation. The NCAA certainly isn't the body to do what you want. Nor do the elite programs want anything to change.

Long story short. The system is what it is unless something catastrophic happens.

[pigmailyen]

IMO: pay elite money for an elite coach.  Arkansas has never done that.  Give it a try--the money is there.

[Dark Helmet Hog]

The landscape will change over time without any extra effort. Coaches will retire, move and get fired. Alabama was much different without Saban. The SEC east is another example. There was a time the East ruled the conference.

Where Arkansas lands in time has a lot of variables. I personally think having stability in the coaching staff will help us in the long haul. It's a chess match. Think long term and several moves ahead. Position yourself to take advantage when the landscape does change.

[sickboy]

IMO: pay elite money for an elite coach.  Arkansas has never done that.  Give it a try--the money is there.

I actually think this would work. But you'd have to be insane and go get a generational coach like Saban or Urban to turn Arkansas into a perennial elite program.

People also forget how much power media plays in building elite programs in today's college football. You need the media beating down your door 24-7. If a mid-level school went nuclear and bought an elite program's coach in his prime to lead their school, it'd be a huge story. Has it ever been done before?

The other coach out there that I think that could potentially make Arkansas elite is Pete Carrol.

But again, none of this stuff is ever going to happen. Just hypotheticals.

[kp72204]

IMO: pay elite money for an elite coach.  Arkansas has never done that.  Give it a try--the money is there.

Who is an elite coach who would come to Arkansas? How much would it take to get them here? I believe we have the resources but not sure we have the prime location or history a recruit desires. Recruits are always dumbfounded when they get here, but still (mostly) choose to go elsewhere.

[LZH]

IMO: pay elite money for an elite coach.  Arkansas has never done that.  Give it a try--the money is there.

We have paid pretty well, and would probably pay much more if it were worth it. Problem is, look at Iowa and their situation. You go all in for a guy (kind of like what we have here in a way) and if he doesn't work out you are hung with him longer than you want to be.

[pigmailyen]

We have paid pretty well, and would probably pay much more if it were worth it. Problem is, look at Iowa and their situation. You go all in for a guy (kind of like what we have here in a way) and if he doesn't work out you are hung with him longer than you want to be.

If it were worth it--what are conference titles and national titles worth?  8 million a year?  10 million?  More?  Open the checkbook.

Iowa is only paying Capt. Kirk 4.5 mil.  Expensive, but not what Bama, Oklahoma or even Clemson are shelling out for their NC winning coaches. 

Open the checkbook for a guy with championship experience.  We've tried everything else, short of putting the starting Patriots lineup in cardinal and white.   

[LZH]

If it were worth it--what are conference titles and national titles worth?  8 million a year?  10 million?  More?  Open the checkbook.

Iowa is only paying Capt. Kirk 4.5 mil.  Expensive, but not what Bama, Oklahoma or even Clemson are shelling out for their NC winning coaches. 

Open the checkbook for a guy with championship experience.  We've tried everything else, short of putting the starting Patriots lineup in cardinal and white.   

I mean if the coach is worth it. And those schools you mentioned are paying their coaches more now, but Iowa was the first school not named Alabama or Texas or USC that I can remember paying their coach that kind of money. If we thought we could get a sure winner, then yeah cut him a blank check. But it can backfire.

[pigmailyen]

Yes, it can backfire.  But we won't know until we try.

[Mike_e]

Just like in music, if you wanna hit #1 you gotta have a great hook.

The old guard has tradition and that's a great hook.  Oregon has Nike and that works pretty well for them (look where they used to be before Nike).

Heck even Notre Dame was a nobody until they got the 4 horsemen.  That was a Great hook.

Am I saying that we need to recruit better?  Yes.  Am I saying just one guy or even a couple of guys can do it for us?  No, there are too many sides to the issue for just one or two to be the answer.

Can we just buy our way to the top?  No, we'd get slapped down before we got there and then stepped on until we'd learned our lesson.  See ol miss.

Unless we can come up with a tag line that has enough legs to bring in 3 or 4 top classes things aren't going to change.  Even then we'd have to actually do something with that talent that kids would remember so that the tag line would become an old standard.

[Hogs run wild]

We've got one of the highest, if not the highest recruiting budget in the SEC. Our facilities are nothing to sneeze at. Our coaches' salaries are competitive, but not top tier. There is only one coach (who is available) I would want to pay that kind of money.

[NaturalStateReb]

IMO: pay elite money for an elite coach.  Arkansas has never done that.  Give it a try--the money is there.

I think very few schools in the future will be able to get successful Power 5 coaches to jump jobs.  There's so much money everywhere now that basically anywhere can become a destination job.  If Mississippi State can pay nearly $5 million per year, then it's no longer about the money.  The schools can't really just out-money each other. 

Even if you do put that kind of money out there, Arkansas/Bret Bielema might actually be a cautionary tale--if it works out, you're a genius; if it doesn't meet expectations, you're locked in for a long time. 

I think it's going to be more important than ever for Power 5 AD's to have a sharp eye for up-and-coming talent.  Texas had to look to Houston for a coach; Florida to Colorado State; Georgia hired a coordinator.  Arkansas will probably have to do something similar unless the right circumstances just happen to align.

[Piggfoot]

Typical NWA answer is pour money into it and it will change. It hasn't changed yet.
NWA has the wrong type of genetic pool. Change that..problem fixed.

[scorekeeper]

Unless you are ready for an all out bidding war buying your way to the top seems futile and very temporary at best.

1. A disciplined team with very few turnovers and penalties.
2. Ball control.
3. Very solid kicking game. Have to win field position
4. Sound defense comprised of mostly seniors and juniors
5. A playmaker at QB.

Easier said than done.

[sowmonella]

Since 1963 only six schools have won the SEC in football. 53 years. It ain't easy.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Our bigger football conferences seem to have just a small number of schools competing for conference championships every year while the other schools are never in the picture.  What or can anything be done?  Can they recruit better without cheating to be elite?  Find the money somehow to  Build bigger/better facilities? Better coaches without breaking the bank?   How does teams like Arkansas get into that small elite group? 

Who can afford it? How many are willing to afford it? Here is a great example that was just discussed as the SEC Spring Meetings. As usual, Saban whines about being "targeted", but he isn't the only one. Urban Meyer, Dabo Swinney, Jim Harbaugh and now, Kirby Smart, are doing the very same thing.

Alabama has a huge staff. Each assistant coach has an analogous analyst—either a young coach trying to break into the business or a veteran living that buyout life—who provides another set of eyes as the coaches break down opponents, review practice video and create game plans. Another set of staffers works in the recruiting office, breaking down video into only the most digestible chunks so the on-field coaches can evaluate prospects in the most efficient manner possible.

Some of these people also offer opinions on the quality of various recruits even though the NCAA officially bans anyone but the head coach and the nine on-field assistants from evaluating prospects. (This is the ultimate in stupidity. It's quite silly to ban someone from having an opinion on a Hudl clip they watched, and it's impossible to enforce such a ban.)

https://www.si.com/college-football/2017/05/31/nick-saban-alabama-ncaa-rule-change-staff-size-cap

[Hawgar The Horrible]

$8 million per year, 5 years guaranteed. That's how you get a great coach to Fayetteville. And you're all invited to his "retirement" party the next day and before the ink is dry.

[pigmailyen]

This thread is excellent.  Lots of reasoned ideas, no name calling and posters who obviously love the Hogs.  Salute!
And six schools in 54 years?  Oy.

[Arthur pigby sellers.]

Only real way to make us a serious contender yearly without getting a Saban or Kelly type coach is to improve Arkansas high school football and increase the number of SEC players that come out of Arkansas yearly.  If this state produced 10-15 SEC players per year, Arkansas would become a top 25 team. With a good coach we could be a top 10 team.  The population explosion in NW Arkansas along with its tradition of strong emphasis on football will likely increase the number of recruits from the state in the coming years, but Little Rock needs to produce more players.

[Porked Tongue]

Nothing.

That's a liberal position.

[Hawgar The Horrible]

Only real way to make us a serious contender yearly without getting a Saban or Kelly type coach is to improve Arkansas high school football and increase the number of SEC players that come out of Arkansas yearly.  If this state produced 10-15 SEC players per year, Arkansas would become a top 25 team. With a good coach we could be a top 10 team.  The population explosion in NW Arkansas along with its tradition of strong emphasis on football will likely increase the number of recruits from the state in the coming years, but Little Rock needs to produce more players.

Just asking, but when Arkansas consolidated all those school districts years ago, how many kids lost the ability to practice and play high school sports due to time and distance?

That appears to be a deterrent, IMO, that would need to be fixed.

[HiggiePiggy]

Only thing that can be done is to force the top schools to play the top teams in other conferences and the top teams in their own conference while allowing the low teams play cupcakes and give them the easiest conference schedule as possible.

[LZH]

Just asking, but when Arkansas consolidated all those school districts years ago, how many kids lost the ability to practice and play high school sports due to time and distance?

That appears to be a deterrent, IMO, that would need to be fixed.

Holy darn. We agree.

This is never mentioned.

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

We've got one of the highest, if not the highest recruiting budget in the SEC. Our facilities are nothing to sneeze at. Our coaches' salaries are competitive, but not top tier. There is only one coach (who is available) I would want to pay that kind of money.

Absolutely not! He already set my eagles back several years, I'd rather not watch him do it to my hogs as well

[J-Five]

Only real way to make us a serious contender yearly without getting a Saban or Kelly type coach is to improve Arkansas high school football and increase the number of SEC players that come out of Arkansas yearly.  If this state produced 10-15 SEC players per year, Arkansas would become a top 25 team. With a good coach we could be a top 10 team.  The population explosion in NW Arkansas along with its tradition of strong emphasis on football will likely increase the number of recruits from the state in the coming years, but Little Rock needs to produce more players.

THIS

[lasthog]

Unless you are ready for an all out bidding war buying your way to the top seems futile and very temporary at best.

1. A disciplined team with very few turnovers and penalties.
2. Ball control.
3. Very solid kicking game. Have to win field position
4. Sound defense comprised of mostly seniors and juniors
5. A playmaker at QB.

Easier said than done.

It worked in 1964.

[zebradynasty]

Only real way to make us a serious contender yearly without getting a Saban or Kelly type coach is to improve Arkansas high school football and increase the number of SEC players that come out of Arkansas yearly.  If this state produced 10-15 SEC players per year, Arkansas would become a top 25 team. With a good coach we could be a top 10 team.  The population explosion in NW Arkansas along with its tradition of strong emphasis on football will likely increase the number of recruits from the state in the coming years, but Little Rock needs to produce more players.

I agree Arkansas high school football needs to continue to improve but really for our population we produce about the same number of SEC quality players as other states about our size. Mississippi is kind of an exception. In any rate your solution could take years maybe decades. We could do better if the Little Rock public schools produced like they used to. Right now I don't see that turning around anytime soon.

[nchogg]

The landscape will change over time without any extra effort. Coaches will retire, move and get fired. Alabama was much different without Saban. The SEC east is another example. There was a time the East ruled the conference.

Where Arkansas lands in time has a lot of variables. I personally think having stability in the coaching staff will help us in the long haul. It's a chess match. Think long term and several moves ahead. Position yourself to take advantage when the landscape does change.

You are right about that. After 1 year Saban was ready to get back into college football and at that time Alabama needed a coach and if Alabama did not need a coach he could have ended up at any number of schools. It's just pick of the draw. Our day is coming sooner than later. :razorback:

[hogsanity]

HEre is what is funny about some of our fans. They think BB is overpaid at 4+mil yet they think simply throwing 2 or 3 times that at a "elite" coach is the answer. That makes no sense at all. You could pay Saban, or Meyer or whoever 15mil a season, and they will still face the same issues that every other football coach faces here. Are they good enough to somehow stockpile the talent here that they do at Bama or Ohio St? If not, then they are not going to win titles here either. One of the biggest keys to their success is the depth they have, so that one or two or 3 injuries never alters how they want to play or the even changes the talent level they put on the field.

[LZH]

HEre is what is funny about some of our fans. They think BB is overpaid at 4+mil yet they think simply throwing 2 or 3 times that at a "elite" coach is the answer. That makes no sense at all. You could pay Saban, or Meyer or whoever 15mil a season, and they will still face the same issues that every other football coach faces here. Are they good enough to somehow stockpile the talent here that they do at Bama or Ohio St? If not, then they are not going to win titles here either. One of the biggest keys to their success is the depth they have, so that one or two or 3 injuries never alters how they want to play or the even changes the talent level they put on the field.

So why did Orgeron wet the bed at Ole Miss?...or why don't we just hire HDN back at $500k per year and spend the rest on something else?

[Rocket23]

Thing is, those elite coaches didn't get those elite salaries until they produced.

[hogsanity]

Thing is, those elite coaches didn't get those elite salaries until they produced.

Exactly. At one point Saban was a soso coach at Mich St. Urban Meyer was the same at a Mac school.

[Karma]

Here's the risk. A successful coach that comes here for a lot of money will require a massive buyout too. Say we get a coach that's won 3 Big 10 titles, if he doesnt work out here we can't fire him.

[Hogwild]

Since 1963 only six schools have won the SEC in football. 53 years. It ain't easy.

Great point, l looking at this list yesterday.
https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/wore-best-best-sec-player-every-jersey-number-1-99/?utm_source=SEC+FANS&utm_campaign=66e9c86624-RSS_TAMU_HF&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_ec9195cc38-66e9c86624-339134929&mc_cid=66e9c86624&mc_eid=bc029dcc15



Who wore it best- football jersey #s 1-99, from the 14 SEC schools.

There are only 7 players, of the 99 on the list that didn't come from the Big Six schools.
Jay Cutler, Archie Manning, Anthony Dixon, Patrick Wills, Warren Bryant, Luke Joeckel, Jordan Matthews.

[Poker_hog]

It's all about the right coach.  CBP was getting us close to competing for sec titles.  Heck even Nutt came real close to winning the sec.  Paying top dollar is one way to make it happen.  The other is keep changing coaches once they've proven they can't win big here.  Eventually you'll get lucky and find a Nolan Richardson, then you just have to hang on to them.  For me it's pretty obvious Bert is not a coach that's going to elevate us to that level.  His ceiling seems low.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

IMO: pay elite money for an elite coach.  Arkansas has never done that.  Give it a try--the money is there.

There is more to it than that. Paying more money is no guarantee.

[LZH]

There is more to it than that. Paying more money is no guarantee.

Back when...the more $ I made, the lazier I got.

[Hogs run wild]

Absolutely not! He already set my eagles back several years, I'd rather not watch him do it to my hogs as well

cuz saban took the dolphins to a couple of super bowls right? not!

[Hawghiggs]

  Find a young hungry coach ( Scott Frost? )
  Pay that coach a reasonable amount ( 2 million base pay )
  Load contract with bonuses. ( 100k per win, 500k bowl game, x2 SEC championship.)
  5 Million for assistant coach pay
 

[Hoggie17]

It's all about the right coach.  CBP was getting us close to competing for sec titles.  Heck even Nutt came real close to winning the sec.  Paying top dollar is one way to make it happen.  The other is keep changing coaches once they've proven they can't win big here.  Eventually you'll get lucky and find a Nolan Richardson, then you just have to hang on to them.  For me it's pretty obvious Bret is not a coach that's going to elevate us to that level.  His ceiling seems low.

I agree with this post, Bret is just not the coach that will get to the next level. I am not sure Long is interested getting the Hogs to the next level.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I agree with this post, Bret is just not the coach that will get to the next level. I am not sure Long is interested getting the Hogs to the next level.

I think that Long is all for us getting to the next level as long as it is done in what he feels is the "right" way. Long recently made a comment about regretting his bowing to pressure to hire a certain former HC here because it went against his view of how a program should be ran and the overall public perception of the program. At least that is what I got from his statement.

I'll also go back to something else that he recently said about Bielema.

"The leader is more than just winning games — and I know some fans don't wanna hear that. Trust me, it doesn't mean we aren't competing with every fiber of our being to win in the toughest conference and the toughest division of that conference. But when you look at what Bret's doing, we're building a program that's built on an outstanding foundation."

All that said, I think Long knows that the natives are restless for more wins and he has another year before he has to begin to think seriously about what he is going to do about the HC'ing job at Arkansas...extend or replace? I also believe that Long knows that winning just 7-8 games each year isn't going to cut it at Arkansas. Every 4-5 years we need to be winning 10 or more games. The rest of the time should be a mix of 7-8-9 win seasons.

If we can reach that level on a consistent basis I doubt that too many are going to complain, unless of course we lose games the way we did at times last season with a blowout and other games that we lose in the second half because we look and play like a different team than we saw in the first half. No matter what happens, that kind of performance, for whatever reasons, has to stop.

[nwahogfan1]

How much will our stadium upgrades help in recruiting?  Do you see it helping this year? 

[MuskogeeHogFan]

How much will our stadium upgrades help in recruiting?  Do you see it helping this year? 

I don't.

[nwahogfan1]

I saw a very good video on the life of Coach Spurrier. Very well done.   What I noticed was how he really got first Duke football and then Florida football revitalized by being able to recruit better players by using his offensive style and his personality. 

Can CBB do this?  What is he selling to highly rated recruits that others can not? 

[pigmailyen]

You're just begging for RicePig to stop by here, aren't you Pigmailyen?

I even stood in front of the mirror and said his name 3x.  Still waiting.

[ricepig]

I even stood in front of the mirror and said his name 3x.  Still waiting.

Are you waiting for me to disagree with you, or foot the bill?

[Poker_hog]

I agree with this post, Bret is just not the coach that will get to the next level. I am not sure Long is interested getting the Hogs to the next level.

I think you're right.  I think he cares about football success just from a revenue stand point.  As long as we're successful enough to keep the money rolling in he's happy.  Whether that's averaging 6.5 wins a year or 9 wins a year, makes no difference to him.

[hobhog]

I think you're right.  I think he cares about football success just from a revenue stand point.  As long as we're successful enough to keep the money rolling in he's happy.  Whether that's averaging 6.5 wins a year or 9 wins a year, makes no difference to him.

Ridiculous...

[pigmailyen]

Are you waiting for me to disagree with you, or foot the bill?

Just glad you're here.