The Impact Of Losing Alex Collins and Hunter Henry (Roundtable Discussion)

[urkillnmesmalls]

Just like everyone assuming the 2015 defense would be the strength of the team despite losing the top 5 playmakers from the great 2014 team.  You just can't assume Arkansas is in plug and play mode just yet.  Some of these new guys (in terms of starting and major playing time) have to prove themselves before you can assume 8-9 wins.  You can have 4 losses before these new guys gel, especially the O-line.

From what I've read and heard, unless we have injuries, I think we'll be OK on the O-line...for now.  The concern will be in the coming years, unless we get some top guys in who can develop quickly to fill in the gap in depth right now. 

I don't think anyone is assuming anything.  I do think we have more potential than some are believing, but the talk of 10 wins with some breaks going our way is probably assuming too much without some major drop off from some other programs.   

[westside_player]

I don't care if we had Barry Sanders, Emmit Smith, Michael Irvin and Jerry Rice in their primes next year. With the 3 new offensive linemen and an inexperienced QB all starting, we wouldn't win more than about 6 games on this schedule. Subtract sanders smith irvin and rice and insert a few good college players and a few new college players for them spots, which I don't think it matters, I'm seeing 5-7 .

[westside_player]

Instead of doing your story on the impact of losing Alex collins and Hunter Henry, which has absolutely no bearing on how good we would have been next year, do your story on replacing the 3 most important offensive line spots on the most important unit in football, and replacing a 5th year SR at QB.

[go hogues]

And with a break or two maybe one or two better.  After all the injuries we are due some luck.

Must be a new Hog fan. No such thing as good breaks or good luck with our athletic program, especially our football team.

[Hoggish1]

Another 7 win season.

No, I don't think so.  Too many good players that have been around the program for 2-3 years.

[Hoggish1]

I think RB is a bigger question mark than QB... that and the OL. 

The schedule is favorable next year... we're loaded at TE and WR, and defense should be experienced.

Find an effective run game and a pass rush.  Biggest question marks to me.  Too many quality QBs competing for the gig not to find one leader among them.

I'm assuming Waley plays a big role out of the box and RWIII comes back full strength.

We have an excellent FB coming to to ad to the mix.  Our receivers will be best in SEC.  The TEs will, overall, be the best we've ever had, as a unit.

Our O-Line will have newcomers who are ready to play well and may actually be better than those we've lost.  I'm looking for more mobility from the unit as a whole.

QB situation, as you say:  We should find one out of the bunch that can play well.

Our D should be as good as any unit in the SEC up front.

[Hoggish1]

Finally, someone who sees the light.  We'll be fine at RB.  Sprinkle is no drop off from Henry.  Losing 2 O linemen... just how it is.  Our line will be great.  On D, we lose what, one player?   The only question is QB, and that doesn't worry me much.  Hogs will be great next year. 

And thanks for getting it, too! +1 if I could...

[Hoggish1]

As far as the OLine is concerned, next fall we will likely have:
LT - RS Soph Brian Wallace ESPN ****
LG - RS Fr Jalen Merrick ESPN ****
C - Soph Zach Rogers ESPN ****

I'm not as worried as some. 

Excellent!

I'm also thinking that Anderson will be the kind of coach that gets these boys out on the edges with a bit more mobility than we've seen. The O-line will be more of a strength than it's been in the past three years.

[urkillnmesmalls]

Instead of doing your story on the impact of losing Alex collins and Hunter Henry, which has absolutely no bearing on how good we would have been next year, do your story on replacing the 3 most important offensive line spots on the most important unit in football, and replacing a 5th year SR at QB.

Dude, seriously, you should post less and read more.  Do you NOT RECALL all that we lost before the season even started?  Some top teams lost ONE key player, and became pedestrian.   

If you don't know the overall impact that HH and AC had on our team this year, then you're choosing to be blind.  HH got so many key 3rd downs, and when he wasn't the target, he was getting more than his share of attention and leaving others with manageable coverage. 

AC was a threat on every play with his vision, and he forced the opposition to honor the run at ALL times.  Take that away, and BA doesn't have NEARLY the opportunities in the passing game.

Yes, we lose some, but we have more experience in the system, and Enos's play calling is excellent in my eyes.  He really mixes it up well, and that's not going anywhere.   

You're choosing to be negative, but look at this season for example.  People were folding their tents on even 7 wins after the loss to Texas Tech, but look what happened.  We had to beat the better teams to get there, but we ended up about right where most reasonable fans thought we would.

If you're waiting for that situation where we "reload," then I hope you have some rations put away.  I don't think we'll ever get to that level, but we can get to a 9-10 wins a season situation, and hope to catch lightning in a bottle, and I think CBB has us headed in that direction.   

[hogsanity]

Losing HH is a big hit if none of the other TE's on the roster step up to take his place. Yes, he was an extremely gifted pass catcher at TE, but he was not not the best blocker.

AC, while not the fastest ( although I think he was one of those guys who was fast enough ), he did a lot of little things right, chipping a de, picking up blitzers, etc, and his vision was just incredible. Still, they have guys behind him, and a big time recruit coming in.

Teams lose players all the time, the impact is only as big as the difference between them and the guy replacing them.

[urkillnmesmalls]

Losing HH is a big hit if none of the other TE's on the roster step up to take his place. Yes, he was an extremely gifted pass catcher at TE, but he was not not the best blocker.

AC, while not the fastest ( although I think he was one of those guys who was fast enough ), he did a lot of little things right, chipping a de, picking up blitzers, etc, and his vision was just incredible. Still, they have guys behind him, and a big time recruit coming in.

Teams lose players all the time, the impact is only as big as the difference between them and the guy replacing them.

That's always the case.  But to discount what they meant last season is revisionist history.  I agree 100% that having experienced players who have been in this system will have a very positive OVERALL impact, and it could easily offset losing a few key cogs from the wheel.  That's what we have to rely on moving forward, and it is EVERYTHING that CBB is trying to accomplish. 

That being said, I think we saw the drop off in defense last season and how much some DIFFERENCE MAKERS can impact not only what happens on the field, but off the field.  The area we may miss AC as much as any is in his recruiting.  Apparently, that kid had a magnetic personality and everyone loved to be around him, and that impacts recruits.  We'll certainly miss that aspect. 

[hogsanity]

That's always the case.  But to discount what they meant last season is revisionist history.  I agree 100% that having experienced players who have been in this system will have a very positive OVERALL impact, and it could easily offset losing a few key cogs from the wheel.  That's what we have to rely on moving forward, and it is EVERYTHING that CBB is trying to accomplish. 

That being said, I think we saw the drop off in defense last season and how much some DIFFERENCE MAKERS can impact not only what happens on the field, but off the field.  The area we may miss AC as much as any is in his recruiting.  Apparently, that kid had a magnetic personality and everyone loved to be around him, and that impacts recruits.  We'll certainly miss that aspect. 

Oh there is no doubt losing weapons like that will have an impact. My only point with that statement is that there are SUPPOSED to be guys recruited to replace them because leaving early or not, they dont stay forever.

[hogblitz]

The problem at Arkansas has and always will be that we can get  talent to compete with the top flight schools, but we can't get enough of it to have depth. When this many kids leave is early, it is devastating. We just lost 90 percent of our offense and our defense sucks donkey balls. 6 or 7 wins IS being optimistic.

Well, Petrino proved that you can win and win big at poor lil ole arkansas.  I believe that he would have continued to do so and 8-4 would have been our record on a down year.  I don't buy any of that stuff.  If so, we definitely downgraded coaches when Long pulled the trigger on Petrino.  However, I happen to think we will be back to double digit win seasons very soon.

[urkillnmesmalls]

Oh there is no doubt losing weapons like that will have an impact. My only point with that statement is that there are SUPPOSED to be guys recruited to replace them because leaving early or not, they dont stay forever.

I totally agree.  But...you have some come along that are too above the norm to replace on every go around.  You don't have guys like DMAC come through and expect not to have some drop off when he leaves.  You hope to minimize it and make it up in other areas, but there are those elite players that come along where drop off is imminent. 

What we need is a core team with a sprinkling in of difference makers that come along.  I really think we had that this season, but we just had too much to overcome with the injuries, and our OVERALL defensive showing wasn't nearly what we had hoped for or anticipated after the losses last season.  PLUS...I don't think very many thought a lights out showing by BA in the 2nd half of the season was going to be what propelled us forward.

My biggest fear is the O-line.  Not because we'll see a drop off this season, but because the LOS is CBB's claim to fame, and if there's one area where you would think we would be excelling in recruiting, it would be there.  That worries me.  But...I'm hopeful we're worried over nothing, and we see that return to normal.     

[mckinneyhog5]

Has to progress. Anything less than 9 wins would be a failure.

Kind of hard when we're finishing in the bottom quarter of the SEC in recruiting. 

Btw, Carmouche just de committed.

You have to remember, every season he's going to lose 2 or 3 games he shouldn't and win a few he's not expected to win.

Logic at its finest...

[DeltaBoy]

Bama just Reloads like I do my shotgun.  Hogs got some holes to fill.

[hogsanity]

I totally agree.  But...you have some come along that are too above the norm to replace on every go around.  You don't have guys like DMAC come through and expect not to have some drop off when he leaves.  You hope to minimize it and make it up in other areas, but there are those elite players that come along where drop off is imminent. 

What we need is a core team with a sprinkling in of difference makers that come along.  I really think we had that this season, but we just had too much to overcome with the injuries, and our OVERALL defensive showing wasn't nearly what we had hoped for or anticipated after the losses last season.  PLUS...I don't think very many thought a lights out showing by BA in the 2nd half of the season was going to be what propelled us forward.

My biggest fear is the O-line.  Not because we'll see a drop off this season, but because the LOS is CBB's claim to fame, and if there's one area where you would think we would be excelling in recruiting, it would be there.  That worries me.  But...I'm hopeful we're worried over nothing, and we see that return to normal.     

What i found amazing all season but especially from Auburn on was that teams continued to load the box even after BA started making people pay REPEATEDLY for doing so. And. even with that, AC still put up a huge season.

[bphi11ips]

I don't care if we had Barry Sanders, Emmit Smith, Michael Irvin and Jerry Rice in their primes next year. With the 3 new offensive linemen and an inexperienced QB all starting, we wouldn't win more than about 6 games on this schedule. Subtract sanders smith irvin and rice and insert a few good college players and a few new college players for them spots, which I don't think it matters, I'm seeing 5-7 .

I agree that it will be difficult to replace 5 starters on offense, all of whom may be taken in the draft.  But, look at who we have left.  Keon Hatcher returns to go with Dominique Reed, Drew Morgan and Jared Cornelius.  Bobby Petrino would be proud of that group.  Raleigh Williams is a prototypical 1,000 yard Bielema back.  So is Whaley.  Collins rushed for 1,000 yards as a true freshman.  No reason to think Whaley can't.  O-line will be young and thin, but if they stay healthy, the talent is there.  The inexperienced QB's are led by a RS Jr. who looks on film to be more talented than his brother.

We lose DeMarcus Hodge, Rohan Gaines and Mitch Loewen on a defense that should be solid up front and in the middle and a year older in the secondary.

The schedule sets up pretty well.  Ole Miss's huge recruiting class of 2013 is leaving along with a slew of seniors.  Alabama will reload, but they're gutted on both sides of the ball.  Dak Prescott is gone.  TCU loses Boykin, its O-line and its top running back.  Missouri has a new coach and is in the tank.  QB issues?  Look at A&M.  Florida has no offense. 

La. Tech  -  usually tough but replacing QB.  W in DWRRS
@TCU  -  Hogs will remind everyone how little things have changed in 30 years -W
Texas State  -  no WMS doldrums here -W
A&M - Austin Allen and deep receiving corps start to shine - W
Alcorn State - even WMS doldrums can't help the Braves - W
Alabama - Hogs finally hang on in Fayetteville on Saturday afternoon - W
Ole Miss - Rebel Bears have to wait another year for revenge -W
@Auburn - Hogs need a break and are a step slow in the secondary - L
Open Date
Florida - rested Hogs easily outscore punchless Gators - W
LSU - Battle for the Boot decides SEC West - W
@MSU - Moo State makes it hard on the Hogs but Hedlund comes through - W
@Missouri - yawn - W
Tennessee - Vols have too much offense before a partisan crowd in Atlanta - L
Baylor - Hogs remind New Orleans how little things have changed in 30 years - W

11-2

[goodguytex]

RB's can excel with no experience though. QB is much harder to accomplish that with.

RW3 will be back, right? He did great in relief until he got hurt. Any word if KW has decided to come back, or is he moving on? With RW3, Juan Day and KW back, if he comes back, we will be fine at RB, if the Oline shapes up. That's a big question mark for me.

[The real Hogules]

Because of the glutton of talent that we have stacked at the QB position, I'm confident that whoever comes out on top will be able to run an affective offense.ditto with replacements along the OL and TE positions. High quality players that are ready to step forward with (hopefully) little drop off.

[k.c.hawg]

I won't stress over the wins at this point. I think we are talented at most of the positions we lost starters at. I will be looking forward to seeing how guy's have progressed with another 9 months in the system. I'm not worried about TE, I know we have talent that have been groomed for OL, I'm certain we can find a QB out of the group that can effectively run the offense, I'm hoping Walker comes back and RW III can comeback healthy, add in Waley and we'll be alright at RB.

If you are looking at the long term success of the program you should feel good about the fact we are losing underclassmen.

[TexArkHogFan]

What's with all the naysayers.  College is a four year deal, five if you red shirt, so do the math.  You are going to lose 20-25 percent of your players every single year.   We have the best coach we have had in quite some time, a great bunch of assistants that know their stuff and they have built a system that will survive and thrive every year.  I think we will get at least one more five star RB in the foal and with the new OL coach who appears to be a go-getter, we'll probably pick up a couple more OL men.  Recruiting is still going on so why don't everybody wait to see what we have coming in. I'm not worried about QB or RB.  I don't think Allen has the job locked up.  Town came here for a reason, he saw an opportunity to be the starting QB so why don't everybody just sit back and relax and wait til spring ball.  Or do like me, and stay off MMQB until it's football time again.  Too much speculation and crying over something they know nothing about.  The Hogs will be fine next year.  Just give it time to develop.  Go Hogs.

[urkillnmesmalls]

What i found amazing all season but especially from Auburn on was that teams continued to load the box even after BA started making people pay REPEATEDLY for doing so. And. even with that, AC still put up a huge season.

I think that was the direct result of our running game coming back to life, and they had to pick their poison.  I'm confident that they kept thinking that any minute BA would come back to earth and give them a gift or two, but he was just too steady and poised.  I was hard on him for short arming a few throws early on under pressure, and that happened.  He just found the resolve to stare down the demons and I can't applaud him enough for that.  You can't change the past, and while it's easy to say all you can do is move on, it's not always easy to do.  He just kept working until he gained the confidence to make the clutch throws.  I wasn't sure he was cut out to do that, but he proved he was.  Great success story. 

I don't want to sound overly optimistic, but if you take a really honest look at how this season went, we weren't far off in any games.  We didn't have a UGA or Bama blowout this time around.  We were right there with everyone.  To me, that's encouraging and if CBB stays and we start seeing some of these kids succeed in the NFL, that's going to do nothing but help our long term prospects. 

I just hope we're able to keep Enos around a little longer.  He's going to get some significant HC offers if he is able to do this again next year.  I know he stepped back from that even as a successful HC at WM, but I have to believe that at his age he's going to move toward being a HC again.       

[bennyl08]

For all the doom and gloomers, take a look at two things with an open mind.   Look at our schedule and look at the other schools on the schedule and their issues.  Not cut and dried...  We have issues but there are others losing more and with problems worse than ours.

Once we are past the deadline for juniors declaring, I'll start on my annual thread of everything that we and our opponents return vs lose. Run ins with the law always mess that up eventually though.

[urkillnmesmalls]

What's with all the naysayers.  College is a four year deal, five if you red shirt, so do the math.  You are going to lose 20-25 percent of your players every single year.   We have the best coach we have had in quite some time, a great bunch of assistants that know their stuff and they have built a system that will survive and thrive every year.  I think we will get at least one more five star RB in the foal and with the new OL coach who appears to be a go-getter, we'll probably pick up a couple more OL men.  Recruiting is still going on so why don't everybody wait to see what we have coming in. I'm not worried about QB or RB.  I don't think Allen has the job locked up.  Town came here for a reason, he saw an opportunity to be the starting QB so why don't everybody just sit back and relax and wait til spring ball.  Or do like me, and stay off MMQB until it's football time again.  Too much speculation and crying over something they know nothing about.  The Hogs will be fine next year.  Just give it time to develop.  Go Hogs.

Or, we could use a message board to send messages and discuss things so that we're more invested, and it makes it more interesting.   

[urkillnmesmalls]

Once we are past the deadline for juniors declaring, I'll start on my annual thread of everything that we and our opponents return vs lose. Run ins with the law always mess that up eventually though.

Thankfully, lately the run-ins have been with the competition and not us! 

[bennyl08]

RW3 will be back, right? He did great in relief until he got hurt. Any word if KW has decided to come back, or is he moving on? With RW3, Juan Day and KW back, if he comes back, we will be fine at RB, if the Oline shapes up. That's a big question mark for me.

Hence my list I posted. RW3 has more experience than several other SEC backs before they went on to 1000 yard or close seasons. If Kody comes back, I think he plays a lot early until Whaley settles in then he gets relegated back to a similar role he played this year. Our top guys overall IMO will be a true freshmen and a sophomore with limited reps just like JWill and Collins.

[bennyl08]

Thankfully, lately the run-ins have been with the competition and not us!

Indeed!

[GoldenCOHog]

We'll win as many or more games next year even with all the attrition.  Mark it down, dude. 

[gchamblee]

Logic at its finest...

i can assure you that every post between now and next october by hogcard will just be posturing for his temper tantrums over CBB's contract and calls for CBB to be fired. he is nothing but permanent CBB friction and will continue his schtick until CBB is fired. i am sort of shocked that you dont have him on ignore yet to be honest.

my prediction for next year is we will look like most teams that are replacing so much talent on the offensive side of the ball. i want to go to a bowl game and win it. if we can do that after losing so much talent i will be happy. i predict that if we lose to tcu the grumbling will begin and the usual suspects will start piling on about how CBB is in his 4th year and 10 wins is the only acceptable outcome as they ignore everything relevant to the conversation they are trying to have. i predict the people who screamed this year for BA to be benched will be missing him as we watch a new QB try to replace him.

i hope to see improvement in our secondary but i am not as optimistic about it as i want to be. i think our front 7 will improve but im not sure it will be enough to help our secondary out.

if we have a good year, say 7 wins and win a bowl game, i think 2017 will be a year we can point to as a possible 10 win season and a new years day bowl with a lot of exposure.

woopig

[urkillnmesmalls]

i can assure you that every post between now and next october by hogcard will just be posturing for his temper tantrums over CBB's contract and calls for CBB to be fired. he is nothing but permanent CBB friction and will continue his schtick until CBB is fired. i am sort of shocked that you dont have him on ignore yet to be honest.

my prediction for next year is we will look like most teams that are replacing so much talent on the offensive side of the ball. i want to go to a bowl game and win it. if we can do that after losing so much talent i will be happy. i predict that if we lose to tcu the grumbling will begin and the usual suspects will start piling on about how CBB is in his 4th year and 10 wins is the only acceptable outcome as they ignore everything relevant to the conversation they are trying to have. i predict the people who screamed this year for BA to be benched will be missing him as we watch a new QB try to replace him.

i hope to see improvement in our secondary but i am not as optimistic about it as i want to be. i think our front 7 will improve but im not sure it will be enough to help our secondary out.

if we have a good year, say 7 wins and win a bowl game, i think 2017 will be a year we can point to as a possible 10 win season and a new years day bowl with a lot of exposure.

woopig

Hogcard is a Bama fan masquerading as a Hog fan.  I have no idea why he comes here, but he claims that he's a fan of both programs.  That's like saying you're a Cowboys and Eagles fan.  It flies in the face of what fandom is. 

[tahlahog]

QB- IMO will not drop off too much, While BA had a heck of a season and had lots of experience, I believe lacked much of the talent some of the New QBs bring to the table.
RB- While probably not as effective as this year will be fairly solid.
WR- We will be improved and more experience this will help the young quarterbacks look much better.
OL-  Biggest question mark, It will take a hit, how much? who knows, but as been stated we have some good ones coming in and our strength and conditioning coach may be the best In the nation.
Defense- Well hopefully we will be much improved, surely we couldn't be much worse.
Special Teams- No where to go but up in this area. 

[gchamblee]

Hogcard is a Bama fan masquerading as a Hog fan.  I have no idea why he comes here, but he claims that he's a fan of both programs.  That's like saying you're a Cowboys and Eagles fan.  It flies in the face of what fandom is.

some people need to be a fan of a winner, and they usually dont care who it is. i dont get it, but i know it is a thing. every team i am a fan of i have an emotional attachment to. i have been lucky to have some winners but i have had many years where i just had to live life unfulfilled as a fan.

my son was born in denver when i lived there, and i have met john elway at business meetings which is why i have been a denver fan for 25 years. being born and raised in arkansas is the reason i have been a hog fan for my entire life. i dont really have a baseball team because ive never been a fan, but i do have to admit the diamond hogs have kept me involved over the last few years. my son is turning me into a soccer fan and he is a huge manchester united fan so i found myself trying to decide who to be a fan of. i went with leicester city because im fond of underdogs lol. we will see if that ever pans out for me it is kind of cool waking up on saturday mornings at 7am to watch soccer.

[urkillnmesmalls]

some people need to be a fan of a winner, and they usually dont care who it is. i dont get it, but i know it is a thing. every team i am a fan of i have an emotional attachment to. i have been lucky to have some winners but i have had many years where i just had to live life unfulfilled as a fan.

my son was born in denver when i lived there, and i have met john elway at business meetings which is why i have been a denver fan for 25 years. being born and raised in arkansas is the reason i have been a hog fan for my entire life. i dont really have a baseball team because ive never been a fan, but i do have to admit the diamond hogs have kept me involved over the last few years. my son is turning me into a soccer fan and he is a huge manchester united fan so i found myself trying to decide who to be a fan of. i went with leicester city because im fond of underdogs lol. we will see if that ever pans out for me it is kind of cool waking up on saturday mornings at 7am to watch soccer.

Soccer?     I've tried...no go for me.  I guess sort of like baseball for you.  I can relate to the lifelong fan thing.  I have always been a Hog and Cowboys fan.  I just grew up on those two teams, and loved the Staubach versus Bradshaw years, with a hint of fringe interest in the Raiders during the Stabler years.  Baseball has always been the Cardinals, with a fringe interest in the Astros, just because I went to a few of their games when I was a kid. 

It's just so foreign for me to have someone profess to be a Hog and Sooner fan, or something similar.  I don't get that....it's Hogs or bust for me with regard to college sports.  Pro...that's different, and I can sort of pick up on someone when the Cowboys stink.  But make no mistake about it...I'll be rooting for Bama over Clemson just to keep the SEC reputation up, but it's not because I like Bama.  I despise them, but I want what's best for the Hogs, which is to keep the SEC strong in the eyes of the nation so we benefit from it.  It's a "lesser of two evils" situation for whoever I am rooting for when the Hogs aren't in the game.     

[gchamblee]

Soccer?     I've tried...no go for me.  I guess sort of like baseball for you.  I can relate to the lifelong fan thing.  I have always been a Hog and Cowboys fan.  I just grew up on those two teams, and loved the Staubach versus Bradshaw years, with a hint of fringe interest in the Raiders during the Stabler years.  Baseball has always been the Cardinals, with a fringe interest in the Astros, just because I went to a few of their games when I was a kid. 

It's just so foreign for me to have someone profess to be a Hog and Sooner fan, or something similar.  I don't get that....it's Hogs or bust for me with regard to college sports.  Pro...that's different, and I can sort of pick up on someone when the Cowboys stink.  But make no mistake about it...I'll be rooting for Bama over Clemson just to keep the SEC reputation up, but it's not because I like Bama.  I despise them, but I want what's best for the Hogs, which is to keep the SEC strong in the eyes of the nation so we benefit from it.  It's a "lesser of two evils" situation for whoever I am rooting for when the Hogs aren't in the game.   

yep that is the same reason i will be rooting for bama over clemson. i always pull for sec teams in bowl games except for auburn. i was a cowboys fan as a kid because my grandfather and dad were fans. when jerry jones bought the cowboys i was old enough to understand what was going on, and he lost me as a fan after the way he fired tom landry. i appreciate everything jones does for the razorbacks but i do not forgive him for stripping an icon of the game of his dignity. there were betters ways to handle it and he, as an intelligent business man, didnt choose one of them. that was the day i stopped being a cowboys fan.

[HogimusMaximus]

Another 7 win season.

if we are lucky.