The way to BUILD a program in todays college bball landscape

[hogsanity]

Unless your name is Kentucky or Duke, the way to build a program is to have a continual supply of solid guards. They do not have to be great. They do not have to be NBA caliber. They just need to be solid college guards. Protect the ball, make enough threes so the D can't lay back off of you, and have enough quickness to beat your man to the lane and then make a pass. Need to be able to play solid defense, but you don't have to be all world at that either.

If you notice, more times than not, when a "under dog" makes a run in the ncaat, or even just gets a 1st round upset, they do it on the backs of good guard play. The other advantage they often have is that these teams typically have been together for 2 or 3 seasons.

[Hollywood_HOGan45]

What boggles my mind right now is the complete regression of Ky Madden.

Not sure what happened to him.

[The_Iceman]

What boggles my mind right now is the complete regression of Ky Madden.

Not sure what happened to him.

I think defenses have scouted him well. They're staying in his face and forcing him to drive with the ball. His assist numbers are fantastic, but there is just something missing with him this year, especially in the final minutes.

[The_Iceman]

Unless your name is Kentucky or Duke, the way to build a program is to have a continual supply of solid guards. They do not have to be great. They do not have to be NBA caliber. They just need to be solid college guards. Protect the ball, make enough threes so the D can't lay back off of you, and have enough quickness to beat your man to the lane and then make a pass. Need to be able to play solid defense, but you don't have to be all world at that either.

If you notice, more times than not, when a "under dog" makes a run in the ncaat, or even just gets a 1st round upset, they do it on the backs of good guard play. The other advantage they often have is that these teams typically have been together for 2 or 3 seasons.

My biggest complaint of Mike is that in year 4, he doesn't have these caliber of guards. I think Beard will eventually be one of those tough guards you speak of. Babb has a ton of potential as well. But Mike in 3 years never recruited that quick, feisty guard that can carry you late in a game.

[3kgthog]

What has anyone seen from Babb that screams potential? Highlight videos on YouTube?

[hogsanity]

What has anyone seen from Babb that screams potential? Highlight videos on YouTube?

That's the thing, either MA is not playing him, even though he knows he could help, or he has shown nothing in practice that makes MA want to play him.

My biggest complaint of Mike is that in year 4, he doesn't have these caliber of guards. I think Beard will eventually be one of those tough guards you speak of. Babb has a ton of potential as well. But Mike in 3 years never recruited that quick, feisty guard that can carry you late in a game.

For whatever reason those are not the type of guards MA wants. HE wants long lanky guys, and those guys are usually not great with the ball, and do not have the quickness to stay with more traditional type guards. Just look at how often they get beat off the dribble.

[The_Iceman]

What has anyone seen from Babb that screams potential? Highlight videos on YouTube?

Smoothness handling the ball, solid 6'5" frame, good looking jump shot, and good overall quickness and athleticism. Its obvious tho his confidence isn't quite there yet when he steps onto the floor. When it clicks, he will be a very good player.

In fact, from the full game video I watched of him in high school, I didn't think he would contribute much early...and he hasn't. But seeing him in person, I think he'll really take a big step forward next year when the opportunities come for him.

[Hawg Red]

Unless your name is Kentucky or Duke, the way to build a program is to have a continual supply of solid guards. They do not have to be great. They do not have to be NBA caliber. They just need to be solid college guards. Protect the ball, make enough threes so the D can't lay back off of you, and have enough quickness to beat your man to the lane and then make a pass. Need to be able to play solid defense, but you don't have to be all world at that either.

If you notice, more times than not, when a "under dog" makes a run in the ncaat, or even just gets a 1st round upset, they do it on the backs of good guard play. The other advantage they often have is that these teams typically have been together for 2 or 3 seasons.

You also need to be able to really coach up who have if you aren't going to be getting elite talent, not banking who you've recruited fitting perfectly into whatever system you're running. That's what seems to be necessary for Anderson. If the players themselves can't fit perfectly into what he's running, he can't overcome that with coaching or system adjustments. It's just kind of "oh well, it ain't working." That, to me, is poor coaching. Have to be able to at least tweak the system to better fit your personnel or get a more flexible system.

And I absolutely agree with what you've said about guard play, and that's why it's so baffling to me that people are completely fine with Arkansas not pursuing KeVaughn Allen simply because already have a bunch of guards. Keep Beard, Whitt, and maybe Babb and make a hard run at KeVaughn. Fans will be thanking him later if he gets those guys in the same backcourt. Guys like Bell, Hannahs, Watkins (like his game, too, though), and Durham are role players. Spot minute guys on a good team. They should never be an obstacle to signing at top 60 player, especially from within the state.

[hogman99]

You also need to be able to really coach up who have if you aren't going to be getting elite talent, not banking who you've recruited fitting perfectly into whatever system you're running. That's what seems to be necessary for Anderson. If they players themselves can't fit perfectly into what he's running, he can't overcome that with coaching or system adjustments. It's just kind of "oh well, it ain't working." That, to me, is poor coaching. Have to be able to at least tweak the system to better fit your personnel or get a more flexible system.

And I absolutely agree with what you've said about guard play, and that's why it's so baffling to me that people are completely fine with Arkansas not pursuing KeVaughn Allen simply because already have a bunch of guards. Keep Beard, Whitt, and maybe Babb and make a hard run at KeVaughn. Fans will be thanking him later if he gets those guys in the same backcourt. Guys like Bell, Hannahs, Watkins (like his game, too, though), and Durham are role players. Spot minute guys on a good team. They should never be an obstacle to signing at top 60 player, especially from within the state.

Excellent post and 100% accurate!!

[Hoggish1]

I think defenses have scouted him well. They're staying in his face and forcing him to drive with the ball.

It's as if staying in his face is like waving a red flag at a Bull.  Makes him determined to drive into traffic even more.

Disaster.

[The_Iceman]

It's as if staying in his face is like waving a red flag at a Bull.  Makes him determined to drive into traffic even more.

Disaster.

I don't mind him driving, as long as it leads to mid-range jumpers. He cannot finish at the rim.

[hogsanity]

You also need to be able to really coach up who have if you aren't going to be getting elite talent, not banking who you've recruited fitting perfectly into whatever system you're running. That's what seems to be necessary for Anderson. If the players themselves can't fit perfectly into what he's running, he can't overcome that with coaching or system adjustments. It's just kind of "oh well, it ain't working." That, to me, is poor coaching. Have to be able to at least tweak the system to better fit your personnel or get a more flexible system.

When you either can only or will only coach one style, that is what happens. No adjustments, no "coaching up". This gets back to a question I have been asking for a long, long time. Is it a case of MA NOT trying different things because he is just stubborn to a fault, or is it a case of MA CANT try different things because he can't coach any other way?

[Cresthog]

We have a lot of awesome coaches on Hogville.

Clearly both of Mikes successful rebuilds were just one offs.

[mbgrulz]

Unless your name is Kentucky or Duke, the way to build a program is to have a continual supply of solid guards. They do not have to be great. They do not have to be NBA caliber. They just need to be solid college guards. Protect the ball, make enough threes so the D can't lay back off of you, and have enough quickness to beat your man to the lane and then make a pass. Need to be able to play solid defense, but you don't have to be all world at that either.

If you notice, more times than not, when a "under dog" makes a run in the ncaat, or even just gets a 1st round upset, they do it on the backs of good guard play. The other advantage they often have is that these teams typically have been together for 2 or 3 seasons.

I agree with you here.

You need inside scoring, but if I have to pick, I'll take a team full of guards who can drill open 3's and attack the basket when they are pressured to do so.

Just as it is easier to slow the game down than speed it up, it is easier to gameplan for a team that has poor guard play, but has an advantage inside than a team that can shoot the lights out if you don't get out to them.

[Hawg Red]

When you either can only or will only coach one style, that is what happens. No adjustments, no "coaching up". This gets back to a question I have been asking for a long, long time. Is it a case of MA NOT trying different things because he is just stubborn to a fault, or is it a case of MA CANT try different things because he can't coach any other way?

Honestly, it may be both. Either way, it's just not happening.

[Cresthog]

When you either can only or will only coach one style, that is what happens. No adjustments, no "coaching up". This gets back to a question I have been asking for a long, long time. Is it a case of MA NOT trying different things because he is just stubborn to a fault, or is it a case of MA CANT try different things because he can't coach any other way?

Did we not play a zone against UGA?

[hogsanity]

Did we not play a zone against UGA?

You are better than that. You know we are talking about overall philosophy. The trapping, the pressing, the switching every screen, the insistence on using a "motion" offense, even against zone defenses, which results in a stagnant offense. I am not talking about occasionally changing to a zone.

[Cresthog]

You are better than that. You know we are talking about overall philosophy. The trapping, the pressing, the switching every screen, the insistence on using a "motion" offense, even against zone defenses, which results in a stagnant offense. I am not talking about occasionally changing to a zone.

We scored 82 against Ole Miss.

That's a stagnant offense? Although I agree with most of your points, I think our offense is fine.

The defense and stupidity is what is killing us.

[The_Iceman]

If we go out and win 5 of the next 6, I'm gonna miss all of hogsanity's Anti-Mike rants. I'm sure we'll hear it after that one loss tho.

[BadHog]

What boggles my mind right now is the complete regression of Ky Madden.

Not sure what happened to him.

Well I can think of a few things that might have happened....

[Cresthog]

If we go out and win 5 of the next 6, I'm gonna miss all of hogsanity's Anti-Mike rants. I'm sure we'll hear it after that one loss tho.

No we'll still hear it because we would then be winning Mike's way. Which is totally static. You have to win in DIFFERENT ways to be a great coach.

[onebadrubi]

We scored 82 against Ole Miss.

That's a stagnant offense? Although I agree with most of your points, I think our offense is fine.

The defense and stupidity is what is killing us.

I think the players got it in their heads they could out score anyone.  That's just not true, they have to stop them and put up the SEC's best scoring offense. 

[hogsanity]

If we go out and win 5 of the next 6, I'm gonna miss all of hogsanity's Anti-Mike rants. I'm sure we'll hear it after that one loss tho.

I am not anti-Mike. I am anti stupid mistakes that do not get fixed. Pelphrey's teams, and Heaths teams did the same. None of the last three coaches seem to have the ability to correct things. They all seem to have things that for whatever reason, they just seem unable to get their teams to stop doing.

Crest, you said it yourself, defense and stupidity are costing this team. That is on Mike to find a way to fix.

[Atlhogfan1]

I think the players got it in their heads they could out score anyone.  That's just not true, they have to stop them and put up the SEC's best scoring offense.

I don't think it was the players. 

[Cresthog]

Crest, you said it yourself, defense and stupidity are costing this team. That is on Mike to find a way to fix.

With 12 SEC games left, why don't we give him a chance rather than chalking it up as season over?

I'm with you on the Ole Miss game, it was like we just threw in the towel. No clue what was going on there, but if we drop the next two, we'll be in SERIOUS trouble, as will Mike's reputation with even his staunch defenders.

I hope our media starts asking questions, ever since Nolan they simply hide in their shells and ask the same run of the mill crap.

[hogsanity]

With 12 SEC games left, why don't we give him a chance rather than chalking it up as season over?

I'm with you on the Ole Miss game, it was like we just threw in the towel. No clue what was going on there, but if we drop the next two, we'll be in SERIOUS trouble, as will Mike's reputation with even his staunch defenders.

I hope our media starts asking questions, ever since Nolan they simply hide in their shells and ask the same run of the mill crap.

I never said season over. Until proven otherwise, I still think they make the ncaat, but losing to old misses at home, plus the defense they are playing right now, has made it much harder than it should have been.

But it is not just the last couple of games, MA's team have played that way since he got here, and he still has not found a way to fix it.

[Danny J]

Unless your name is Kentucky or Duke, the way to build a program is to have a continual supply of solid guards. They do not have to be great. They do not have to be NBA caliber. They just need to be solid college guards. Protect the ball, make enough threes so the D can't lay back off of you, and have enough quickness to beat your man to the lane and then make a pass. Need to be able to play solid defense, but you don't have to be all world at that either.

If you notice, more times than not, when a "under dog" makes a run in the ncaat, or even just gets a 1st round upset, they do it on the backs of good guard play. The other advantage they often have is that these teams typically have been together for 2 or 3 seasons.

And I will also make note that our issues or losses we have incurred over the last 3 seasons have been to teams that have good PG and 2 guard play who are also upperclassmen. I made this same post around this time last year as well. I made note that 90% of our losses over that period have come to teams who have those type guards. We were able to beat UK last year because they didn't have either of those things. We lost to LSU, USCe and Bama because they DID have those things. We lost to ISU, Clemson and Ole Miss this year because they had those things.

Until we get the guards needed to score against but most importantly defend against those guards we are not going to get where we want to be. We will have arguably the best guard coming in next year we have had since CMA arrived. May even be better than BJ was and probably better for this style. We simply need more Whitt's.

[Kevin]

Unless your name is Kentucky or Duke, the way to build a program is to have a continual supply of solid guards. They do not have to be great. They do not have to be NBA caliber. They just need to be solid college guards. Protect the ball, make enough threes so the D can't lay back off of you, and have enough quickness to beat your man to the lane and then make a pass. Need to be able to play solid defense, but you don't have to be all world at that either.

If you notice, more times than not, when a "under dog" makes a run in the ncaat, or even just gets a 1st round upset, they do it on the backs of good guard play. The other advantage they often have is that these teams typically have been together for 2 or 3 seasons.

wichita state the last couple of years. baker was a walk on, van fleet can play.
butler during the run

no question, good guards, with defensive,rebounding post players, can make big runs in the tournament.

florida did it with, green, humphrey, brewer. brewer was the only big time recruit.

[Cresthog]

wichita state the last couple of years. baker was a walk on, van fleet can play.
butler during the run

no question, good guards, with defensive,rebounding post players, can make big runs in the tournament.

florida did it with, green, humphrey, brewer. brewer was the only big time recruit.

Pretty sure they had Horford? The all pro forward for the Hawks didn't they?

[Hawg Red]

Pretty sure they had Horford? The all pro forward for the Hawks didn't they?

Reads as if he's only talking about the guards.

[Cresthog]

Reads as if he's only talking about the guards.

Reads as if the only reason they made a big run  was with guards to me..

[The_Iceman]

Pretty sure they had Horford? The all pro forward for the Hawks didn't they?

Is Joakim Noah any good?

[Cresthog]

Is Joakim Noah any good?

LOL oh yea, I forgot he played guard for them too.

[The_Iceman]

LOL oh yea, I forgot he played guard for them too.

So they had two future All-Star NBA Centers on that team, that played guard for them at Florida.

[Kevin]

noah was raw, when he was at florida, truly a defense, and rebounding guy. this guy has just gotten better & better.
horford, was a force on the inside

just stating that florida, won two titles, with good guard play. not great college post players.

[Cresthog]

noah was raw, when he was at florida, truly a defense, and rebounding guy. this guy has just gotten better & better.
horford, was a force on the inside

just stating that florida, won two titles, with good guard play. not great college post players.

Wait what? Didn't you just say Horford was a force on the inside? I can't keep up with the pre-constructed arguments to bash our team and Mike Anderson.

[The_Iceman]

noah was raw, when he was at florida, truly a defense, and rebounding guy. this guy has just gotten better & better.
horford, was a force on the inside

just stating that florida, won two titles, with good guard play. not great college post players.

In his Soph and Junior years, the 6'11" Noah averaged:
13.1 pts, 7.8 rebs, 2.2 asts, 1.1 stls, and 2.1 blks, on 62% shooting.

In his Soph and Junior years, the 6'10" Horford averaged:
12.3 pts, 8.5 rebs, 2.1 asts, 1.3 stls, and 2.7 blks, on 61% shooting.

Those aren't two GREAT college posts? Excellent rebounding, excellent defense, and excellent offensive efficiency.

[Kevin]

Wait what? Didn't you just say Horford was a force on the inside? I can't keep up with the pre-constructed arguments to bash our team and Mike Anderson.

the op was about good guards.

[Atlhogfan1]

Florida's NC teams had very good frontcourt players to go along with good guards who provided both shooting (Humphrey) and defense (Brewer).  Therefore Mike Anderson has been defended!  Stupid childish darn. 

[Kevin]

where was mike anderson attacked? you guys are reaching to defend him.

the op was about building a program with guards, not coach anderson is building the program the wrong way.

yeah, i was wrong about florida, but this is not about anderson

[lrcentral]

The easiest way to build a program is to do it the Cam Newton Way.

[The_Iceman]

I completely agree. It is year 4, and Mike does not have the level of guard he should have.

[Atlhogfan1]

where was mike anderson attacked? you guys are reaching to defend him.

the op was about building a program with guards, not coach anderson is building the program the wrong way.

yeah, i was wrong about florida, but this is not about anderson

You appeared to just be pushing the conversation along.  But it is always about Anderson to some especially when they are a fan to the point of having his picture as part of their profile.  It is what it is in this era. 

UConn has had great guards leading them when they won NC's.  Louisville did as well in their recent NC.  The Duke 2010 team had good guards but I think rebounding played a huge role in Duke's last NC.  Kelly, Singler, the Plumlees and then they could bring in 7-1 Zoubek. 

[MikePiazza]

Whitt is a start. But I wish they were signing two guards to go with him, and hopefully they can land Kapita.

[The_Iceman]

Whitt is a start. But I wish they were signing two guards to go with him, and hopefully they can land Kapita.

You can almost consider Dusty Hannahs as apart of this 2015 class. Almost like a JUCO transfer (two years to play).

[FelixJonesorDMAC?]

Unless your name is Kentucky or Duke, the way to build a program is to have a continual supply of solid guards. They do not have to be great. They do not have to be NBA caliber. They just need to be solid college guards. Protect the ball, make enough threes so the D can't lay back off of you, and have enough quickness to beat your man to the lane and then make a pass. Need to be able to play solid defense, but you don't have to be all world at that either.

If you notice, more times than not, when a "under dog" makes a run in the ncaat, or even just gets a 1st round upset, they do it on the backs of good guard play. The other advantage they often have is that these teams typically have been together for 2 or 3 seasons.

Yep, when I finally got to see the hogs in person last year in the NIT agains Cal, the difference was in the guard play, night and day difference. 

Protect the ball and create scoring opportunities, everything else will work itself out, because the easy shot will be open if its created.

[Atlhogfan1]

Whitt is a start. But I wish they were signing two guards to go with him, and hopefully they can land Kapita.

With Harris a senior, Williams a Jr and Miles a Jr and none of them bringing much consistently anyway, they have to try and get a versatile F.  Thompson looks to be a project. 

[MikePiazza]

You can almost consider Dusty Hannahs as apart of this 2015 class. Almost like a JUCO transfer (two years to play).

I always forget about Hannahs. Hopefully he will be a dead-eye shooter for two years.