All sickness is not death

[raz1965]

is one of Nolan's famous quotes which I think is very fitting for this week in Jump ball.

[bigdaddyhawg]

is one of Nolan's famous quotes which I think is very fitting for this week in Jump ball.

Two things:

1-what's going on is not about Jump Ball.  What's going on is the very poor play our talented, experienced, deep basketball team has exhibited the last two games.

2-you make a good point with that Nolan quote.  There is no question this team still has most of the tools to produce a run of W's and make the NCAAT.

[HF#1]

I drank the Kool-Aid and now I got the diabeetus

[Thepigdoctor]

Two things:

1-what's going on is not about Jump Ball.  What's going on is the very poor play our talented, experienced, deep basketball team has exhibited the last two games.

2-you make a good point with that Nolan quote.  There is no question this team still has most of the tools to produce a run of W's and make the NCAAT.

Just how talented is this team honestly? I think by now we can all agree Madden is no where near a 5 star player. He's a 3 with flashes of 4.

Portis is our only 5 star player.
Qualls has improved greatly from his ranking and is a high four star, with potential still to be a 5.
Kingsley has potential to still be a 4 star, but he was and still is a raw project.
Beard looks the part of a 4 star with great potential.
We haven't seen enough of Babb or Thompson to suggest they are anything better than their ranking, but like Qualls could improve greatly (I think Babb will).
Harris, Williams, Miles, Babb, Bell, Madden, Thompson, Watkins, and Durham are all in the three star range based on prior ratings and play up to this day.

So this amazingly talented team, has 4 players above average, or with the potential to be above average, which doesn't really help this year.

We are still not that talented when you look at everything, so one could argue, even with the losses this year, some of our wins are actually overachieving. Everyone is entitled to their perspective, but I don't see a highly talented team. We've had to rely too much on juco' and transfers to fill out what was a terrible roster situation when Mike got here. That takes time. We are getting close to being able to fill our roster with true recruits, straight from high school. The roster is about to turn over, the 2016 class is going to be crucial to our programs success. We have a lot of interest from quite a few 5 star players, and both playing time and roster spots will be there, along with a solid core.

I'm not pleased with the last two games, but I also acknowledge that some situations are just not good. When Mike came here, that's what he was faced with. I hope Mike stays through 2016 because I'm really excited about that class. I just want progress and improvement this year and next, because we've got some things to be excited about. That said, if that class flops and we are forced to sign more three star projects and jucos just to field a team, I'll have lost faith and want a change. I expected it to take 5-6 years to fix this program completely, but expected we'd see some moderate success in years 3-4. My expectations are being met and think we are right on pace.

I'd love for it to have been overnight, just like the rest of our micro wave, what have you done for me today, society, but it's not realistic.

[tophawg19]

it doesn't take 5 or 6 years to flip a basketball team . Next years team may be missing Portis , Qualls , and Madden . so i don't believe it gets better

[HF#1]

it doesn't take 5 or 6 years to flip a basketball team . Next years team may be missing Portis , Qualls , and Madden . so i don't believe it gets better

I agree 100%.  If we don't do anything this season, it will be 2-3 more years before we are back to par.

[Thepigdoctor]

Oh you can have a flip in 1-2 years, but that's not going to be a foundation for a sustainable program which is elite year in and year out. I mean, have you all forgotten that we were basically irrelevant nationally for the last 15 years? A tourney appearance here or there, wow, what a powerhouse.

There is a reason the saying is Rome wasn't built in a day. If you want a solid program that can consistently compete at the highest level, it takes time, especially when you've been irrelevant for 15 years, and kids have little reason to consider going to college in Northwest Arkansas.

I really don't know what some of you expect. To be a consistent final four contender, you need at least 3-4 players on your team that are NBA ready or a year away, unless you have a team that is 6-7 deep, who are all just a cut below but are experienced juniors/seniors running the same style they have since day one (see butler, vcu). After those 3-4 NBA kids, you still need 3-4 more solid role players, who could start on most any team in the country.

We don't have that yet. Maybe Mike can't recruit those kids to come to arkansas and we will have to rely on developing 3 star talent into 4-5 star players over a course of 3-4 years. That's what our current roster is. Portis surrounded by a bunch of guys that have been projects since day one. Maybe, just maybe, it's harder to recruit elite players to Arkansas than you guys realize. We have an aged tradition, which today's kids know nothing of, unless they grew up in Arkansas. We aren't relevant for our past success anymore, and I'm sorry to tell you this, but it's going to take some time to get back there.

[Breems]

We are still not that talented when you look at everything, so one could argue, even with the losses this year, some of our wins are actually overachieving. Everyone is entitled to their perspective, but I don't see a highly talented team.

We're still more talented than most of the SEC.

We have more talent than the majority of the teams left on the schedule. One could argue that Ole Miss was more talented than us because their guards were head and shoulders above any of ours (Andy Kennedy's teams are just always inconsistent).

[Atlhogfan1]

Just how talented is this team honestly? I think by now we can all agree Madden is no where near a 5 star player. He's a 3 with flashes of 4.

Portis is our only 5 star player.
Qualls has improved greatly from his ranking and is a high four star, with potential still to be a 5.
Kingsley has potential to still be a 4 star, but he was and still is a raw project.
Beard looks the part of a 4 star with great potential.
We haven't seen enough of Babb or Thompson to suggest they are anything better than their ranking, but like Qualls could improve greatly (I think Babb will).
Harris, Williams, Miles, Babb, Bell, Madden, Thompson, Watkins, and Durham are all in the three star range based on prior ratings and play up to this day.

So this amazingly talented team, has 4 players above average, or with the potential to be above average, which doesn't really help this year.

We are still not that talented when you look at everything, so one could argue, even with the losses this year, some of our wins are actually overachieving. Everyone is entitled to their perspective, but I don't see a highly talented team. We've had to rely too much on juco' and transfers to fill out what was a terrible roster situation when Mike got here. That takes time. We are getting close to being able to fill our roster with true recruits, straight from high school. The roster is about to turn over, the 2016 class is going to be crucial to our programs success. We have a lot of interest from quite a few 5 star players, and both playing time and roster spots will be there, along with a solid core.

I'm not pleased with the last two games, but I also acknowledge that some situations are just not good. When Mike came here, that's what he was faced with. I hope Mike stays through 2016 because I'm really excited about that class. I just want progress and improvement this year and next, because we've got some things to be excited about. That said, if that class flops and we are forced to sign more three star projects and jucos just to field a team, I'll have lost faith and want a change. I expected it to take 5-6 years to fix this program completely, but expected we'd see some moderate success in years 3-4. My expectations are being met and think we are right on pace.

I'd love for it to have been overnight, just like the rest of our micro wave, what have you done for me today, society, but it's not realistic.

Some of a player's success is how they fit into what the coach tries to do and the coach putting them in a position to succeed.  Not all of our players are being put into a position to succeed on both ends of the court.  The team may be more talented than it is showing they just may not fit what the staff is trying to do.  Combine that with being in conference play now where our opponents are familiar with us, our style and our weaknesses.  They know what they want to try to do against us and our individual players.  Our head coach has a rep, some of which has been earned by his own comments, of opponents will have to prepare for what he does more than he adjusting and planning for them.   

I'll give you the team is lacking talent at the guard position to do what we insist on doing as well as the roles Harris and Williams are trying to play.  Only one player is left though that can't be put directly on the current staff. 

As far as this pass being given because you believe we shouldn't have expected too much too soon, the staff has brought in 14 players after the inherited class who have played with most still eligible to play.  We didn't have to rely on JC's and transfers.  Our staff has chosen to do so.  And this won't stop based on our head coach's history.  Our head coach and his top assistant have been in major college basketball for decades and experience as head coaches.  They should have the connections and relationships necessary to recruit when moving to Arkansas and they moved from a nearby program in the region.  They should have relationships with high school and JC coaches, AAU coaches, street agents, shoe companies, bag men and anyone else necessary to recruit.  They should have had relationships with the recruits of the last few classes.  There was no learning on the job and our program isn't that destitute.  It had a horrible 3 years to end the Pelphrey era.  But it wasn't some dead end job where we should need have to settle for inferior recruits or projects and we haven't.  Even in the Heath rebuild, we signed players coveted by some good programs.  I know some want to make this rebuild to have seemed as hard as possible as a way to make the pass more valid.  He had a rebuild.  Coaches who switch jobs often do. 

I don't know how anyone considers what happened last season moderate success.  But I'm not surprised by it either as the expectations are going to be kept fluid and low enough to be met. 

I guess I admire you a little for putting your hopes on the 2016 class.  I think the majority of our fan base tired long ago of putting hopes on future classes. 

[bigdaddyhawg]

We're still more talented than most of the SEC.

We have more talent than the majority of the teams left on the schedule. One could argue that Ole Miss was more talented than us because their guards were head and shoulders above any of ours (Andy Kennedy's teams are just always inconsistent).

This.

No one said we were ultra talented, but you'd have to be clueless to be unable to see this team has talent.

IMO we've been getting by mostly ON talent.  The "key" wins so far this year, SMU and UGa on the road and Dayton at home, we certainly had considerably more talent that those teams.

Other than ISU, who probably had talent equal to us, I'd say only OM had a talent level equal to or close to us, and we all saw how that played out.

[Thepigdoctor]

Some of a player's success is how they fit into what the coach tries to do and the coach putting them in a position to succeed.  Not all of our players are being put into a position to succeed on both ends of the court.  The team may be more talented than it is showing they just may not fit what the staff is trying to do.  Combine that with being in conference play now where our opponents are familiar with us, our style and our weaknesses.  They know what they want to try to do against us and our individual players. 

I'll give you the team is lacking talent at the guard position to do what we insist on doing as well as the roles Harris and Williams are trying to play.  Only one player is left though that can't be put directly on the current staff. 

As far as this pass being given because you believe we shouldn't have expected too much too soon, the staff has brought in 14 players after the inherited class who have played with most still eligible to play.  We didn't have to rely on JC's and transfers.  Our staff has chosen to do so.  And this won't stop based on our head coach's history.  Our head coach and his top assistant have been in major college basketball for decades and experience as head coaches.  They should have the connections and relationships necessary to recruit when moving to Arkansas and they moved from a nearby program in the region.  They should have relationships with high school and JC coaches, AAU coaches, street agents, shoe companies, bag men and anyone else necessary to recruit.  They should have had relationships with the recruits of the last few classes.  There was no learning on the job and our program isn't that destitute.  It had a horrible 3 years to end the Pelphrey era.  But it wasn't some dead end job where we should need have to settle for inferior recruits or projects and we haven't.  Even in the Heath rebuild, we signed players coveted by some good programs.  I know some want to make this rebuild to have seemed as hard as possible as a way to make the pass more valid.  He had a rebuild.  Coaches who switch jobs often do. 

I don't know how anyone considers what happened last season moderate success.  But I'm not surprised by it either as the expectations are going to be kept fluid and low enough to be met. 

I guess I admire you a little for putting your hopes on the 2016 class.  I think the majority of our fan base tired long ago of putting hopes on future classes.

I agree with much of what you said, but we all know kids look at teams with current success. We don't have that yet. I felt we deserved a 12 seed last year and could have pulled off a shocker, but we were left out and I can see why. The tourney is a must this year to remind kids who we are and what we are about. We don't have a great history of pulling 5 star recruits from across the country, so I don't know why anyone would expect that to change, with little national exposure in March to showcase our program.

I have hope because I've never in my 30+ years of following the hogs, seen 6 espn 60 players with interest in us. We land just half of those, with the foundation we will have set, and a couple project players and the next few years could see us return to national prominence. Like I said, if we strike out and are forced to go all projects and juco/transfer, it'll be time for a change.

[raz1965]

The pig doctor is right on most accounts, I look back to where we was and where we are now and its much better, takes time to rebuild a destroyed house, and that's bout what Mike got from day one. I think we need a stable program for a while, that will help for starters, not against change its just not time to give up on Mike. There was a time I would have been afraid that UAPB could beat Arkansas in the Bud, not gonna happen anytime soon now.

[RazorPiggie]

We're still more talented than most of the SEC.

We have more talent than the majority of the teams left on the schedule. One could argue that Ole Miss was more talented than us because their guards were head and shoulders above any of ours (Andy Kennedy's teams are just always inconsistent).

One would think Guards would want to play in this system.

[bigdaddyhawg]

One would think Guards would want to play in this system.

I can only speak for myself, but I like the future of our guard lineup with Bell, Beard, Babb, Whitt, and Hannahs.

[HF#1]

229th in defensive ppg... 

[Breems]

229th in defensive ppg... 

Our pace will always contribute heavily to that.

Possession-based defensive stats are probably more telling.

[HF#1]

Our pace will always contribute heavily to that.

Possession-based defensive stats are probably more telling.

Given we hang our hat on defense, we probably should be higher than that regardless of pace...  amirite?

[Großer Kriegschwein]

The best quote was Larry Johnson's when he played Arkansas in Fayetteville, "Better go get you some men."

Need a real center or two and a dedicated, defensive minded ball handler to go with the talent.

[Dropkick]

The program was dead when MA got here, he just hasn't been able to revive it yet.

[Deep Shoat]

This is good to know, because I am damn sick of the way we play defense...

[Breems]

Given we hang our hat on defense, we probably should be higher than that regardless of pace...  amirite?

You can't disregard pace. More possessions = more PPG. Possession-based stuff is more better.

[HF#1]

You can't disregard pace. More possessions = more PPG. Possession-based stuff is more better.

Yes, if you don't play good defense lol

[Inhogswetrust]

True. Not all sickness is death. However at some point with the patient having a curable illness that is taking to long to cure then there comes a time when changing doctors has to be considered.

[gmarv]

well where do we stand in scoring,and where does the no. 1 defensive team stand in scoring?

[Paul]

True. Not all sickness is death. However at some point with the patient having a curable illness that is taking to long to cure then there comes a time when changing doctors has to be considered.

good point

[raz1965]

I would say a doctor that takes you from being bed ridden and now you are jogging fairly well, with a chance to run soon, that you would continue to use that doctor.

[bigdaddyhawg]

I would say a doctor that takes you from being bed ridden and now you are jogging fairly well, with a chance to run soon, that you would continue to use that doctor.

I don't know.  I think if it took that doctor four years to get to the point where I still can't run, then I might want to go to plan B.

[Piglywigly]

The best quote was Larry Johnson's when he played Arkansas in Fayetteville, "Better go get you some men."

Need a real center or two and a dedicated, defensive minded ball handler to go with the talent.

If we had a real center or two they would just spend their time 30 feet from the basket chasing guards around after switching on screens.

[raz1965]

I can only go by this fact, look at UAB before Mike, with Mike and after Mike, look at Missouri before Mike, with Mike, and after Mike. What was Arkansas before Mike, didn't see any hope, 13-4 some good wins and many games left in the season. I will say no more bout it, I just look at the facts and nothing else.
Time will tell the story and Mike still has a couple of years at the least, just well to enjoy the games and hope for the best in the mean time.

[Kevin]

Not sure mike left the programs in very good shape

[HogBreath]

Just how talented is this team honestly? I think by now we can all agree


Kingsley has potential to still be a 4 star, but he was and still is a raw project.

Wouldn't matter if he was Lew Alcindor since he rarely gets to play.

[HogInThaGrove]

We gots the Ebola.

Better pray for a miracle...

[EastexHawg]

Actually some sickness does result in death.  What Nolan should have said is "not all sickness is death."

I know one thing...I'm sick to death of being an also-ran.  65 or 66 or however many it is get into the tournament, and we can't even do it once in 7 or 8 years?  That's awful.

[RazorPiggie]

Our Defense is ranked 301st.

[Inhogswetrust]

I would say a doctor that takes you from being bed ridden and now you are jogging fairly well, with a chance to run soon, that you would continue to use that doctor.

If all you want to do is jog maybe...........However IF you want to win a race and other doctors say your illness should have improved moreso then at least a second opinion is warranted...........

[jbcarol]

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1990-03-30/sports/9001270128_1_coach-sutton-nolan-richardson-arkansas

Nolan Richardson knows first-hand about life and death predicaments. So the significance of this weekend`s Final Four is kept in proper perspective by the fifth-year coach from Arkansas.

The Razorbacks` fate will be very important, maybe even crucial . . . but not life and death.

``I came to Arkansas at the most inopportune time,`` said Richardson, whose Southwest Conference club will play Duke in Saturday`s opening NCAA semifinal in Denver`s McNichols Arena.

``If I had to do it all over again, I`m not sure I`d do it. And I came over with a young daughter (Yvonne) who had leukemia. I felt really sorry for my team. I would come to practice, but I wasn`t really there. My mind wasn`t on it. The phone would ring and I would think that`s the end. I was getting constantly criticized for bad coaching. Of all the things I went through, I think of her reading those criticisms.``

Richardson, who took over for Eddie Sutton, finished 12-16 in his first season at Arkansas. Most tragically, his daughter later died.

...

Richardson had inherited 13 players from Sutton`s ranks in his first season.

``I loved those kids; they were not all mine. They were Coach Sutton`s players,`` recalled Richardson. ``I wasn`t around them much. My (assistant)

coaches gave them practice. I`d show up for a game. But I would always have a team meeting when I was getting ready to leave to be closer to my kid.

``I would always tell them that all sickness is not death. Even though things are real bad at this point, let`s not give up on one another. Let`s continue to work hard. They never gave up on me. I think they felt sorry for me. I think there were games that they wish they could have won for me. I`ve never been a `Win-one-for-the-Gi pper` kind of a basketball coach, but I thought they tried so hard to have some success for me. But really, we weren`t as good as everyone anticipated.``

[Biggus Piggus]

Arkansas has reached its absolute low point for playing defense in men's college basketball, and it was the other night against Mississippi at home.

Ole Miss points per possession in games this season:

1.39 Arkansas (road)
1.28 Austin Peay (home)
1.28 SEMO (semi-home)
1.18 Cincinnati (neutral)
1.16 Coastal Carolina (home)
1.15 Kentucky (road)
1.15 Creighton (neutral)
1.14 Oregon (road)
1.10 Western Kentucky (home)
1.07 Dayton (road)
1.07 Troy (road)
1.07 Northern Arizona (home)
1.05 South Carolina (home)
0.99 Southern (home)
0.96 LSU (home)
0.87 TCU (home)
0.82 Charleston Southern (home)

The LSU game -- AT OXFORD -- was the game IMMEDIATELY PRIOR TO OURS. It's not as though the Rebs showed a linear progression or something. Arkansas cannot play defense better than Austin Peay and SEMO? Are you going to tell me that's how well this team should be doing?

Ole Miss showed the ability to score well against certain matchups. Maybe it was a warning that Kentucky got fairly shelled -- but why should that mean Arkansas's going to get its rectum turned inside out? It shouldn't.

If Arkansas had played D as well as South Carolina did at Oxford, the Hogs would have won by 10. If Arkansas had played defense as well as Kentucky did at Rupp, the Hogs would have won by 3.

IT WAS NOT ALL DEFENSE. Teams that rebound against Ole Miss beat them. The Rebs had 11 offensive rebounds to the Hogs' 13 defensive rebounds. That is positively awful defensive rebounding. Ole Miss had 11 turnovers, 24 missed shots, and 11 offensive rebounds. Arkansas stopped 24 possessions in the entire game?

Ole Miss made 31 field goals and went to the line for 30 FT attempts (vs. Arkansas's 39). They had about 46 possessions that produced points. That was 46 scoring trips down the court, 24 came up empty. I doubt they could do better against air.

It really makes me chuckle to hear some people say that "the bench didn't produce." Eighty-two percent of the minutes in this game went to Qualls, Portis, Madden, Bell, Williams and Harris. How's anybody else supposed to produce?

Oh yeah -- one more thing. Iowa State scored 1.32 points per possession against Arkansas, in what was supposedly their magically lucky shooting night. ISU scored 0.82 points/possession against South Carolina. And 0.94 against Oklahoma State. And 1.03 against WVa. And 1.14 against Baylor. And 1.07 against Kansas.

And 1.35 against Lamar. That's about right. Arkansas and Lamar, equals on defense.

[bigdaddyhawg]

Arkansas has reached its absolute low point for playing defense in men's college basketball, and it was the other night against Mississippi at home.

Ole Miss points per possession in games this season:

1.39 Arkansas (road)
1.28 Austin Peay (home)
1.28 SEMO (semi-home)
1.18 Cincinnati (neutral)
1.16 Coastal Carolina (home)
1.15 Kentucky (road)
1.15 Creighton (neutral)
1.14 Oregon (road)
1.10 Western Kentucky (home)
1.07 Dayton (road)
1.07 Troy (road)
1.07 Northern Arizona (home)
1.05 South Carolina (home)
0.99 Southern (home)
0.96 LSU (home)
0.87 TCU (home)
0.82 Charleston Southern (home)

The LSU game -- AT OXFORD -- was the game IMMEDIATELY PRIOR TO OURS. It's not as though the Rebs showed a linear progression or something. Arkansas cannot play defense better than Austin Peay and SEMO? Are you going to tell me that's how well this team should be doing?

Ole Miss showed the ability to score well against certain matchups. Maybe it was a warning that Kentucky got fairly shelled -- but why should that mean Arkansas's going to get its rectum turned inside out? It shouldn't.

If Arkansas had played D as well as South Carolina did at Oxford, the Hogs would have won by 10. If Arkansas had played defense as well as Kentucky did at Rupp, the Hogs would have won by 3.

IT WAS NOT ALL DEFENSE. Teams that rebound against Ole Miss beat them. The Rebs had 11 offensive rebounds to the Hogs' 13 defensive rebounds. That is positively awful defensive rebounding. Ole Miss had 11 turnovers, 24 missed shots, and 11 offensive rebounds. Arkansas stopped 24 possessions in the entire game?

Ole Miss made 31 field goals and went to the line for 30 FT attempts (vs. Arkansas's 39). They had about 46 possessions that produced points. That was 46 scoring trips down the court, 24 came up empty. I doubt they could do better against air.

It really makes me chuckle to hear some people say that "the bench didn't produce." Eighty-two percent of the minutes in this game went to Qualls, Portis, Madden, Bell, Williams and Harris. How's anybody else supposed to produce?

Oh yeah -- one more thing. Iowa State scored 1.32 points per possession against Arkansas, in what was supposedly their magically lucky shooting night. ISU scored 0.82 points/possession against South Carolina. And 0.94 against Oklahoma State. And 1.03 against WVa. And 1.14 against Baylor. And 1.07 against Kansas.

And 1.35 against Lamar. That's about right. Arkansas and Lamar, equals on defense.

Although this is all valid and on point, I would add that OM was pretty much on fire all night.  They hit some very, VERY difficult shots they don't normally hit.  And to quote FCJ "it happens". 

Having said that, I think we do a really good job of helping our opponents gets comfortable shooting.  With our constant switching their guards find themselves often guarded by a big man, and that will give their guards a comfort zone for shooting.

At the same time our bigs are switching out and guarding little guys a long ways from the basket, their big men find themselves on the block with a little guy locked on their behind.  And that will lead those guys to a comfortable shot, knowing you have a little guy who can't block your shot.

IMO so much of our defensive problems goes straight to Mike's switch every time two guys get within 8 feet of each other.  It has led to a ton of confusion, and that leads to easy baskets and tons of offensive rebounds.

And, on top of all that, the last two games we haven't put much pressure on their guards.  We did a great job of it vs. Vandy, but almost nothing vs. Tenn and OM.

All in all a recipe that provides the defensive numbers you give.