IF you are a young up and coming HC, why would you come to Arkansas?

[jkstock04]

Think about it. I have just spent 2-5 years building the program I am at now, and I am a hot name in the coaching world. Why, knowing what is readily available about Arkansas - the small recruiting base, the competition in the secw, the average tenure of a coach at AR being about 4.5 years, playing in the sec, plus all the other jobs that may be open, why would I take the AR job?

And please, do not tell me because of the great fans, great facilities, great town, lots of places have all of those things and more.

Try to take your hog glasses off for a minute and look at this from the view of someone thinking about taking the job.

Good questions and I'll answer.

#1 reason, expectations here are very low compared to the rest of the SEC. Win 6-8 games/year look semi competitive and you are good. Make 4-5 million/year here as long as you want.

[bphi11ips]

Here we go again. Too busy today to fool with Eyeore. You guys tear him a new one, please.

[hogsanity]

Here we go again. Too busy today to fool with Eyeore. You guys tear him a new one, please.

Yes, I am eyeore. I worry constantly about carpetbaggers and yankees, and people trying to ruin Arkansas football from the inside, and when will the coach be fired, and what other people think about me because of who I root for. I worry about how my weekend will just be ruined if the Hog do not play well.

[casken]

Good questions and I'll answer.

#1 reason, expectations here are very low compared to the rest of the SEC. Win 6-8 games/year look semi competitive and you are good. Make 4-5 million/year here as long as you want.

That is only part of the equation. We aren't nearly the only ones offering. Additionally,coaches look to be successful among other things that are rewarding. True the perks are enormous but remove job stability, a satisfied fan base, a sense of belonging and accomplishment and what is left is simply money. Either you can have just that or a better chance at the whole pie...not just a piece. Money like that is something most of us will never see but many other needs and desires accompany career goals. High salaries do not negate those. Not many in recent history have been able to accomplish what is "expected" here. Petrino is the only one I recall. He for all his faults is a rare talent.

[oldhawg]

Generally, expectations for football at Arkansas are not as high as at most other SEC schools.  This gives a new coach an opportunity to truly build a solid program.  Win 7 or 8 games in two of the first three years, appear to have decent recruiting success, don't sell out to succeed (no major violations like at Ole Miss), keep his social life under wraps, have a team that is organized and competes well game in and game out.  This buys him a couple more years to strengthen program (unlike Florida), or to look around for something better.  He should know after three years if he has the possibility to be similar to Frank Broyles and stay for the long haul, or if he is headed the route of Bielema. 

[IronHog]

...has nothing to do with it. Hold the cliches fro a moment and reflect. Post displays a bit of common sense. I suspect the answer/positive outcome would be "Arkansas ties", without which, the options may be bleak at best. That is especially so when many schools look to be in the market as well.

For the record I am hoping for a change as well but one must look (intently and honestly) before leaping!

Arkansas is flawed recruiting wise but still a top 25 type program


Good coach can do well at Arkansas if he understands how not to be sucked down by the NWA

[hogsanity]

what do these guys have to do with it

[casken]

Arkansas is flawed recruiting wise but still a top 25 type program


Good coach can do well at Arkansas if he understands how not to be sucked down by the NWA

I think it will take an exceptional coach...but they do exist. I hope for an up and comer who really wants to be here and some stability can be part of the program. Matching the need with supply isn't necessarily guaranteed at this time.

[KennyForAD]

Here we go again. Too busy today to fool with Eyeore. You guys tear him a new one, please.

Thank you for the chuckle.  Eyeore!!   Lanny, please change his name to Eyeore.  Please.

[KennyForAD]

Yes, I am eyeore. I worry constantly about carpetbaggers and yankees, and people trying to ruin Arkansas football from the inside, and when will the coach be fired, and what other people think about me because of who I root for. I worry about how my weekend will just be ruined if the Hog do not play well.

We already KNOW you don't care about the Hogs.  Please go away.

[hogsanity]

We already KNOW you don't care about the Hogs.  Please go away.

I guess you are right I do not care about them if the only way to care is for what they do on the field to be what guides how I feel or act or enjoy life.

[Iwastherein1969]

$4,000,000 times 6 years. That would fix most people for life.

and we have a bingo...I think I could put up with a little hot weather, some snow and ice during the winter and some fresh mountain air for say 5 years in order to set up two or three generations of my family with money for life.

[razorbackfaninar]

I think there are several good reasons to believe we can hire young up and coming HC.  The money, the support from the administration, the fact that the fan base has reasonable expectations, or more-so than some fan bases. It's the SEC which is still  the cream of the college football crop. A good coach may look at the roster and see the potential for quick turnaround. There are a lot of reasons they may want to come here. a good up and coming coach will probably believe that they can build a name any where.  PJ Fleck went to Minnesota.  There are plenty of reasons you can point to to say why they wouldn't as well. In my opinion aside from Petrino we haven't really had an elite coach since joining the SEC. Ford was good, same for Nutt, Petrino was above average, and Bielema, aside from one stretch hasn't risen to the level of good.  I would be excited to see how good we could actually be with an elite head coach. 

[Matt Burks]

Petrino proved that success can be made at Arkansas in the SEC West, and we pay millions of dollars - so yes, a young up and coming coach would want to come to Arkansas. We just gave a coach 5 years to work a plan, of which other schools are giving much less time. So why wouldn't a coach want to come here?

[hogsanity]

, the fact that the fan base has reasonable expectations,

The rest of your post was pretty good, but this made me spit Dr Pepper all over my desk.

[Grunt]

How about quadruple your salary?

[DeWayne R]

At least I would never hope the Hogs would lose a game.....................

We don't have to hope your boy is doing a good job of dragging them under.

[Iwastherein1969]

The rest of your post was pretty good, but this made me spit Dr Pepper all over my desk.

I don't think 8-4 or 9-3 with the occasional double digit year every 4 to 5 years is unreasonable at all...that's where Petrino was headed until the Easy Rider wouldn't give our distinguished Athletic Director all the little freaky details he was wanting to know about THE AFFAIR.

[DoctorSusscrofa]

The best coaches won't take this job.  They'll wait for a better opening, or use us to get a raise at their present school.  At UA they can't easily recruit, the pay isn't going to be any better than most other P5 schools that have a shot at a P5 conference title, the fans are experienced at giving a struggling coach heck because they've done it off and on for a decade, a young rising coach (or talented player for that matter) isn't looking to settle down in a retiree's paradise. Even with a great, young coach the team knows he isn't going to be ranked in the pre-season top 25 anytime soon and he has to play several of our toughest opponents early enough in the season that rising in the polls ain't likely. When you have Bama, TAMU, and Auburn in your first seven games and you're also under pressure to play one non-conference game against a P5 school, you're guaranteed 3 or 4 chances to get knocked down before November ever gets here.

An Arkansas boy that's an up and comer might, but there's no absolute guarantee that he would.  Even if he does, he might not have the success everyone wants. I want BB gone too.  But our chances of climbing out of this abyss quickly is not good.  We need someone that can get back to winning all four non-conference games, both East Division games and 2 out of 3 from the Mississippi schools and whoever is the weaker of LSU/TAMU each year.  If we can get in the habit of winning 8, we can start to climb.

[hawgbawb]

Fayetteville  is a fantastic town to live, good schools, low cost of living.

Expectations are not as high as some places. Good paycheck and big stage, playing some of the best teams in the nation.

[hogsanity]

I don't think 8-4 or 9-3 with the occasional double digit year every 4 to 5 years is unreasonable at all...

8-4 or 9-3 as the floor, even though the program has not come close to that average since joining the sec. 9-3 would be 2 full games above average over the last 26 seasons. But you think that is a REASONABLE expectation. Kind of makes my point about how funny the statement was.

[HoggieStyle]

Some guys like to build stuff. Some guys like a challenge. Most guys like $4M a year.

[DoctorSusscrofa]

How about quadruple your salary?

There are more than a dozen places a coach could do that.  And there will undoubtedly be more next year. Why jump at that with a team that has so many downsides. Even when we finally do have a better year, we will almost never be ranked ahead of Bama, Georgia, LSU, and at least one other SEC team (Florida, Auburn, Tennessee or TAMU) in any given year. That affects recruiting, TV exposure, Bowls, chances to be in the Playoff, etc.

[Iwastherein1969]

The best coaches won't take this job.  They'll wait for a better opening, or use us to get a raise at their present school.  At UA they can't easily recruit, the pay isn't going to be any better than most other P5 schools that have a shot at a P5 conference title, the fans are experienced at giving a struggling coach heck because they've done it off and on for a decade, a young rising coach (or talented player for that matter) isn't looking to settle down in a retiree's paradise. Even with a great, young coach the team knows he isn't going to be ranked in the pre-season top 25 anytime soon and he has to play several of our toughest opponents early enough in the season that rising in the polls ain't likely. When you have Bama, TAMU, and Auburn in your first seven games and you're also under pressure to play one non-conference game against a P5 school, you're guaranteed 3 or 4 chances to get knocked down before November ever gets here.

An Arkansas boy that's an up and comer might, but there's no absolute guarantee that he would.  Even if he does, he might not have the success everyone wants. I want BB gone too.  But our chances of climbing out of this abyss quickly is not good.  We need someone that can get back to winning all four non-conference games, both East Division games and 2 out of 3 from the Mississippi schools and whoever is the weaker of LSU/TAMU each year.  If we can get in the habit of winning 8, we can start to climb.

...         

[Iwastherein1969]

There are more than a dozen places a coach could do that.  And there will undoubtedly be more next year. Why jump at that with a team that has so many downsides. Even when we finally do have a better year, we will almost never be ranked ahead of Bama, Georgia, LSU, and at least one other SEC team (Florida, Auburn, Tennessee or TAMU) in any given year. That affects recruiting, TV exposure, Bowls, chances to be in the Playoff, etc.

name those openings, please...and remember the school must have a better reputation than Arkansas, have an opening and not be subject to an upcoming NCAA slapdown

[DoctorSusscrofa]

8-4 or 9-3 as the floor, even though the program has not come close to that average since joining the sec. 9-3 would be 2 full games above average over the last 26 seasons. But you think that is a REASONABLE expectation. Kind of makes my point about how funny the statement was.

I agree with you, but I think 8-4 is fairly reasonable as an expectation.  BB hasn't been 8-4 at all, but he's made it to 6 or 7 (regular season) and 8 once with a bowl.  We've had enough close games that a few right decisions could have won some more of them. The problem is that we need a good coach to get more than 8 and a good coach can get more than 8 regularly almost anywhere that pays what we pay.

[12247]

Many of the up and comers work for a third of what we would pay.  Both Nutt and eventually Bret will leave here in defeat richer by far that they came here.  As for the fans, quickly name me a top 20 program that has better fans than us as it pertains to giving a person a chance to reach success.  Energetic coaches who believe in themselves will not see the recruiting base as beyond overcoming.

Hogsanity, look at Florida and Auburn.  Fla has won the past 2 eastern division titles and that coach is gone.  Gus Malzahn, in 4 complete years has averaged placing his team in 3.88th place in the total SEC out of 14 teams and rumors are that they don't want him now.  A&M has averaged 8 wins per season with Sumlin and it appears he is gone too.  We don't put that kind of pressure on Coaches.  Just look at yourself.  Bret is a loser on the field in nearly every capacity you can name and you still have your head so far up his ass you can't see.  At nearly every other top half school in the SEC, they would pack your ass out with the coach for being the dumbest individual claiming to be a fan in the State.  We Hog fans have a problem but it isn't not giving a coach a chance.  We put up with overpaid crap way longer than typical, meaning any coach coming here will see that he will get a chance.

[jgcat4]

Think about it. I have just spent 2-5 years building the program I am at now, and I am a hot name in the coaching world. Why, knowing what is readily available about Arkansas - the small recruiting base, the competition in the secw, the average tenure of a coach at AR being about 4.5 years, playing in the sec, plus all the other jobs that may be open, why would I take the AR job?

And please, do not tell me because of the great fans, great facilities, great town, lots of places have all of those things and more.

Try to take your hog glasses off for a minute and look at this from the view of someone thinking about taking the job.

1. The pay is great
2. The expectations are mediocre. If you regularly win 8 games with the occasional 10 win season, challenge 'Bama and win some bowl games, you will have no problems here.
3. NWA is beautiful country
4. If you can recruit here and win, you can recruit anywhere and win.
5. I think the possibilities are great here. I won't say endless because I know that isn't correct but this can be a really good football school. It was almost there with Petrino. I mean top 25 pretty consistently in my opinion.
6. It is still the SEC. It is the greatest football conference in college football. It may be the best chance for someone to get their feet wet in this conference.

I can see someone coming here. That's just my opinion.

[DoctorSusscrofa]

name those openings, please...and remember the school must have a better reputation than Arkansas, have an opening and not be subject to an upcoming NCAA slapdown

https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2014/11/20/27-college-football-coaches-make-more-3-million

Twenty-coaches currently get paid over $3 million dollars.  You don't think quite a few of them will be searching for a new coach this year or next?  Any really good coach that's making a million can expect a possible shot at a 3 million dollar + job in the next 24 months.  Not all of them will get one, but there's a decent choice of schools that will be hiring soon.

[tzthib]

You think no one else is paying that?

How many of those other schools are going to take a risk on an up-and-comer?

Schools that pay big money tend to want to hire coaches with some type of record. "up-and-comers" are unproven commodities that schools with huge budgets might not want to risk signing.

Who is more likely to pay an unproven (at this level) coach a generous salary and give him a decent contract, Arkansas or LSU? If you're not top 10 in two or three years you are gone at other schools. As our current debacle proves, we don't even really require you to go .500 in five.

[DoctorSusscrofa]

Many of the up and comers work for a third of what we would pay.  Both Nutt and eventually Bret will leave here in defeat richer by far that they came here.  As for the fans, quickly name me a top 20 program that has better fans than us as it pertains to giving a person a chance to reach success.  Energetic coaches who believe in themselves will not see the recruiting base as beyond overcoming.

Hogsanity, look at Florida and Auburn.  Fla has won the past 2 eastern division titles and that coach is gone.  Gus Malzahn, in 4 complete years has averaged placing his team in 3.88th place in the total SEC out of 14 teams and rumors are that they don't want him now.  A&M has averaged 8 wins per season with Sumlin and it appears he is gone too.  We don't put that kind of pressure on Coaches.  Just look at yourself.  Bret is a loser on the field in nearly every capacity you can name and you still have your head so far up his ass you can't see.  At nearly every other top half school in the SEC, they would pack your ass out with the coach for being the dumbest individual claiming to be a fan in the State.  We Hog fans have a problem but it isn't not giving a coach a chance.  We put up with overpaid crap way longer than typical, meaning any coach coming here will see that he will get a chance.

Our fans are not great.  They're crass, mean, and pathetic.  Are other schools' too? Yes. But we don not gove a coach much chance.  That "we give coaches a chance" bull is a flat out absolute lie.

I'm happy BB is almost out.  But our job is not a great job and our fans are not close to great.

[Iwastherein1969]

I agree with you, but I think 8-4 is fairly reasonable as an expectation.  BB hasn't been 8-4 at all, but he's made it to 6 or 7 (regular season) and 8 once with a bowl.  We've had enough close games that a few right decisions could have won some more of them. The problem is that we need a good coach to get more than 8 and a good coach can get more than 8 regularly almost anywhere that pays what we pay.

this is going to sound bad, but it's the flat out truth...Bret has become a low energy individual because of his obesity...I'm trying to be nice here, but when he was at his lightest in his first year he had a good recruiting class and our team reflected it...the man can coach, there's just no way he can feel good trying to do all the things a coach needs to do at his current weight..sometimes the truth hurts

[Breems]

Try to take your hog glasses off for a minute

Take off your Bielema glasses and stop trying to bring down the program to make excuses.

At least, that's what the alternate reality hogsanity would tell us elsewhere.

[DoctorSusscrofa]

this is going to sound bad, but it's the flat out truth...Bret has become a low energy individual because of his obesity...I'm trying to be nice here, but when he was at his lightest in his first year he had a good recruiting class and our team reflected it...the man can coach, there's just no way he can feel good trying to do all the things a coach needs to do at his current weight..sometimes the truth hurts

I do agree with that. I think his weight and other things have affected him.  I think the big paycheck has made him less motivated.  And I am ok with people that can be nice about it.  He's a coach that failed.  He's not a devil or worse.  Soon we will get another coach.  Hopefully at the end of the season.

[tzthib]

Our fans are not great.  They're crass, mean, and pathetic.  Are other schools' too? Yes. But we don not gove a coach much chance.  That "we give coaches a chance" bull is a flat out absolute lie.

I'm happy BB is almost out.  But our job is not a great job and our fans are not close to great.

The guy has been objectively TERRIBLE in the SEC for 5 years, and it took close to 4 for anyone to notice. We don't give coaches a chance?!? Ridiculous.

[hogsanity]

Take off your Bielema glasses and stop trying to bring down the program to make excuses.

At least, that's what the alternate reality hogsanity would tell us elsewhere.

Jump ball down today for lack of interest?

Anyone that has the ability to use the search function can see that I have been saying for a month that it is obvious BB is not going to get it done here.

It is possible to want the coach gone AND still be able to see the drawbacks this job has when looked at by a potential coach.

[hogsanity]

this is going to sound bad, but it's the flat out truth...Bret has become a low energy individual because of his obesity...I'm trying to be nice here, but when he was at his lightest in his first year he had a good recruiting class and our team reflected it...the man can coach, there's just no way he can feel good trying to do all the things a coach needs to do at his current weight..sometimes the truth hurts

I have no doubt his weight and his baby have impacted him in ways he never thought they would, or he would admit.

[KennyForAD]

I guess you are right I do not care about them if the only way to care is for what they do on the field to be what guides how I feel or act or enjoy life.

Of all people to be looking down on others for being obsessed with the Hogs!  You spend all day every day talking about the Hogs and have for over a decade.   You will say ANYTHING, without giving it any thought, if it fits your, "keep the coach, keep the AD, agenda."

[Ironhawg]

At least I would never hope the Hogs would lose a game.....................

I assume you are accusing me of this?

[Bubba's Bruisers]

I don't think 8-4 or 9-3 with the occasional double digit year every 4 to 5 years is unreasonable at all...that's where Petrino was headed until the Easy Rider wouldn't give our distinguished Athletic Director all the little freaky details he was wanting to know about THE AFFAIR.

Something has to dramatically change in the SEC for us to average 8 to 9 regular season wins.  8.5 wins per year in the SEC over any length of time would be a significant hurdle.  Possible, yes.  Likely, not at all.

[hogsanity]

I assume you are accusing me of this?

Not accusing anyone in particular, I just think anyone that would do that is beyond pathetic.

[hogsanity]

Something has to dramatically change in the SEC for us to average 8 to 9 regular season wins.  8.5 wins per year in the SEC over any length of time would be a significant hurdle.  Possible, yes.  Likely, not at all.

Yet that is supposed to be the FLOOR for the program.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

this is going to sound bad, but it's the flat out truth...Bret has become a low energy individual because of his obesity...I'm trying to be nice here, but when he was at his lightest in his first year he had a good recruiting class and our team reflected it...the man can coach, there's just no way he can feel good trying to do all the things a coach needs to do at his current weight..sometimes the truth hurts

I'd say he's always been low energy.  Weight related or not.

[KennyForAD]

Jump ball down today for lack of interest?

Anyone that has the ability to use the search function can see that I have been saying for a month that it is obvious BB is not going to get it done here.

It is possible to want the coach gone AND still be able to see the drawbacks this job has when looked at by a potential coach.

Yes.  I noticed.   You changed that tune the VERY NEXT DAY after I was told that 'Deep Pockets' told Long that he had to fire BB at the end of the year or it was gonna be Long's ass.  Immediately after that, I started hearing every one of the usual mouthpieces shift gears and start saying BB had to go.   

I noticed, mouthpiece.  What is it like to be owned by someone?  Must suck.  I'll never experience it.

[smb]

Man $4 mil plus bonuses is enticing I hope.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Yet that is supposed to be the FLOOR for the program.

I wish BP wouldn't have screwed up, but I'm not at all confident even he would have averaged 9-3 over an 8 or 10 year period.  And I think BP was our lightning in a bottle hire.  I don't think he's repeatable. 

That said, I think we're attractive enough for an up and comer type, but I have no illusions of averaging 8 to 9 regular season wins. 

[hogsanity]

Yes.  I noticed.   You changed that tune the VERY NEXT DAY after I was told that 'Deep Pockets' told Long that he had to fire BB at the end of the year or it was gonna be Long's ass.  Immediately after that, I started hearing every one of the usual mouthpieces shift gears and start saying BB had to go.   

I noticed, mouthpiece.  What is it like to be owned by someone.  Must suck.  I'll never experience it.

I only wish I was getting paid to gig people like you. People that actually think what they say on a message board matters.

[Ironhawg]

Not accusing anyone in particular, I just think anyone that would do that is beyond pathetic.

I agree.  I understand that there are challenges to coaching Arkansas in the SEC.  I am realistic about our chances of winning the conference, but I love Arkansas and I want the best for her.  I don't think Bielema is best.

[Bacons Rebellion]

Because if you are at Memphis, SMU, Central Florida, etc. your good fortunes could turn south any time.  You can go from 10-2 to 6-6 in the blink of an eye.  So you strike while the iron is hot.  And that means taking one of the prime time jobs that are available at the time.

That's the answer I was looking for, before I posted the same thing. You stay very long at a mid-level job, you'll be a mid-level coach. You have to move before luck and circumstance catch up. There are only 14 SEC jobs and the next time they come up you may be 5-7.

[hogsanity]

I agree.  I understand that there are challenges to coaching Arkansas in the SEC.  I am realistic about our chances of winning the conference, but I love Arkansas and I want the best for her.  I don't think Bielema is best.

Neither is acting like Northwest Arkansas is some sort of drag on the state best for the state either.