Anyone think there will be alegislative move to force a Razorback vs ASU game?

[dooley]

There is a logic flaw in the "keep the money in-state" argument.

There is the assumption that Arkansas would pay ASU the sum that we would normally do for a rent-a-win.  If that's the case, then ASU is hiring itself out as a rent-a-win.  Assuming that the rent-a-win fees are comparable, the net to the state is a wash as the dollars that the UofA would spend outside of the state are offset by ASU hiring itself out as a rent-a-win to, e.g., Auburn.  In other words, the UofA hiring three rent-a-wins and ASU hiring itself out three times is the same as the UofA hiring two outside rent-a-wins plus ASU because ASU does not realize that 3rd outside the state paycheck.

Regarding local economy, NEA would most certainly benefit greatly from the game.  However, the state would not as internal dollars earned cannot be more than internal dollars spent.  Plus I don't see the Hogs agreeing to play in Jonesboro.  Additionally, the economic gains to a local economy cannot be more than would have normally been seen by any one football game.  That is, the economic boon to Little Rock as a venue does not exceed any other sold out Little Rock game such as SE Louisiana especially if the Hogs would use that game as it's one Little Rock game.  Same goes for a Fayetteville game.

[Fayettechill14]

Mike Beebe told me, to my face, that he would not make any kind of legislative push for an Arkansas/ASU game, though he would like to see one.

[sigpooie]

There is a logic flaw in the "keep the money in-state" argument.

There is the assumption that Arkansas would pay ASU the sum that we would normally do for a rent-a-win.  If that's the case, then ASU is hiring itself out as a rent-a-win.  Assuming that the rent-a-win fees are comparable, the net to the state is a wash as the dollars that the UofA would spend outside of the state are offset by ASU hiring itself out as a rent-a-win to, e.g., Auburn.  In other words, the UofA hiring three rent-a-wins and ASU hiring itself out three times is the same as the UofA hiring two outside rent-a-wins plus ASU because ASU does not realize that 3rd outside the state paycheck.

Regarding local economy, NEA would most certainly benefit greatly from the game.  However, the state would not as internal dollars earned cannot be more than internal dollars spent.  Plus I don't see the Hogs agreeing to play in Jonesboro.  Additionally, the economic gains to a local economy cannot be more than would have normally been seen by any one football game.  That is, the economic boon to Little Rock as a venue does not exceed any other sold out Little Rock game such as SE Louisiana especially if the Hogs would use that game as it's one Little Rock game.  Same goes for a Fayetteville game.

short term answer to long term issue. If asu plays out of state the profits are eaten by the travel. If they play instate then the dollars spent by local people would go to schools in the state thus increasing the profit to those schools. simple as that. This game should be played in the rock since it would bring the whole state together for the game. While the gov has said to me as well, that he won't push the issue, he will back it if it hits his desk and he is a personal friend of mine for over 25 years now and one of the best govs we have ever had.

[snortman]

Stupid, really? How wise is it for a business to provide growth opportunities to one of their competitors?

Really, you view ASU as a competitor.

Arkansas has a 50 year head start on ASU for it fanbase. For every ASU fan there is 50 Arkansas fans..do the math..no competition. Besides we are in the SEC. Let me repeat that , we are in the SEC.

Where's ASU? That's right the Sunbelt. End of story.

[(notOM)Rebel123]

Any business that is competing for the same consumer dollars, is a competitor.
Oh Well, it sure makes for good discussion.

[GuvHog]

No, the Legislature won't get involved. I do believe the game will eventually happen but a home and Home with ASU will NEVER happen for 2 reasons:

1. The U of A will never agree to it.

2. ASU doesn't have anywhere near the capacity to handle the demand for tickets that game would bring.

When the game does happen, it will be played in a newly expanded 75,000 seat WMS IMHO.

PS: ASU is not now nor will they ever be the U of A's competitor no matter how many games the 2 schools play against each other. ASU is in a different, lower tiered Conference.

[Hawgfan27]

No, the Legislature won't get involved. I do believe the game will eventually happen but a home and Home with ASU will NEVER happen for 2 reasons:

1. The U of A will never agree to it.

2. ASU doesn't have anywhere near the capacity to handle the demand for tickets that game would bring.

When the game does happen, it will be played in WMS IMHO.

I tend to agree with this, and honestly if they ever did decide to have one game in WMS I don't think I'd mind it being this one.  Right in the middle of Jonesboro and Fayetteville it would make for an interesting game.  I just don't think ASU is anywhere close to where it needs to be to make it a competitive rivalry.  All IMHO, but I'm certainly not scared to play ASU and they tend to insist.  I simply don't think the U of A has anything to gain from it.

[dooley]

short term answer to long term issue. If asu plays out of state the profits are eaten by the travel. If they play instate then the dollars spent by local people would go to schools in the state thus increasing the profit to those schools. simple as that. This game should be played in the rock since it would bring the whole state together for the game. While the gov has said to me as well, that he won't push the issue, he will back it if it hits his desk and he is a personal friend of mine for over 25 years now and one of the best govs we have ever had.

ASU's travel expense is what it is.  They would be on the move to Little Rock or Fayetteville just the same as traveling somewhere else.  Additionally, if they are such bad business people as to agree to play at Auburn for break even or at a loss, they have more problems than a game with the UofA can solve.

School appropriation is a budgeted item and is not as simple as eating dinner somewhere.  Local tax revenue may or may not support local schools.  It's usually a millage and attached to property tax for local schools.  Additionally, local income boost cannot be greater than any other comparable game.  Therefore, the local tax boost from Arkansas playing ASU vs Arkansas playing NE LA is negligible if it exists at all since only X number of people are going to come see the game.  Additionally, I don't see any evidence that local tax revenue generated from an UofA vs ASU game would help those particular colleges funding in any way since their appropriation is at the state level and not local.  One other thing, I would speculate that the cost to both schools to travel to Little Rock to play would outweigh the cost of ASU traveling to Baton Rouge, for example.

[Hawg Balling]

Mike Beebe told me, to my face, that he would not make any kind of legislative push for an Arkansas/ASU game, though he would like to see one.

Ditto.  The mention of it got a laugh out of him.

[Hurt Hog]

First off, it would have to be determined if they even had the ability to do that.  My understanding is the UA football program does not use tax payer dollars to fund itself.  Have no idea about AState.  If the football program is run independant of taxpayer dollars, what authority does the state legislature have over it?

It doesn't matter if the UA football program is run with or without tax dollars. It's still a state school...CBP is a state employee

[Hurt Hog]

First off, it would have to be determined if they even had the ability to do that.  My understanding is the UA football program does not use tax payer dollars to fund itself.  Have no idea about AState.  If the football program is run independant of taxpayer dollars, what authority does the state legislature have over it?

It doesn't matter if the UA football program is run with or without tax dollars. It's still a state school...CBP is a state employee

[Mr. Hog]

NO!

[ErieHog]

The weight of population and political power continues to shift away from the South, East, and Center of the state.    If this were to have any 'legislative' legs, the time is rapidly approaching where the math simply can't work anymore.

[Swine n Roses]

I sure hope the Law Makers get in on their agenda, THEN maybe the fans that are against it can vote some of the &^%&^% out of office, it will upset people to no end and believe me, there are like 8-1 odds against it, that's just a guess on my part.

Let ASU gain their own way like the U of A did, they don't deserve to ride our coat tail into being a worthy program in Football. I think Gus will be good for ASU if he does it the correct way, earn respect, don't demand it!!

[josh_sec33]

The legislature can't even get it's act together to repeal a tax break which was passed that was supposed to offset a tax increase which didn't pass last year.

How in the heck would they even get this out of committee?

[Hogeye_Pierce]

Pssst, hey fellas.

Guess who eventually may wind up being our one game a year in WMS, legislature or no legislature. IMO it may happen on its own.

[SouthHawg13]

Not unless they want to lose an election.

This

[SWarkansasman]

Lets do it, the hogs need another easy win every year.  A State can dream all they like, they are not big time and Gus is not going to change anything.  If he has success, he`ll take a bigger job . 

[texas tush hog]

The weight of population and political power continues to shift away from the South, East, and Center of the state.    If this were to have any 'legislative' legs, the time is rapidly approaching where the math simply can't work anymore.

If you do not believe the legislators from central, northeast, southeast, and southwest Arkansas will not vote down the other one fifth of the state then you need to go back and take elementary school math. I do not have a dog in this fight other than I am in favor of all games being moved to RRS but I can see the writing on the wall.

[code red]

If we play ASU...ever it will be on the hill or not at all.

[Justifiable Hogicide]

Frank Broyles commented on the possible matchup of Ark.--ASU, and he said that his theory came from John Barnhill.  "...You never give the fan base of the state of Arkansas a chance to divide itself..." 

Sound advice.
AND the state legislature needs to stay out of sports and attend to less important matters.

[lookinupthehill]

Sound advice.
AND the state legislature needs to stay out of sports and attend to less important matters.

Double amen.  Barnhill was a smart man.  The legislature is as well, just not in the right capacities....

[Westcoasthog]

    Arkansas and Arkansas State need to play in Football - why give the money
to these out of state cupcake schools.  Play the game in Little Rock.

[GuvHog]

If we play ASU...ever it will be on the hill or not at all.

No, it'll be played in WMS.

[ErieHog]

If you do not believe the legislators from central, northeast, southeast, and southwest Arkansas will not vote down the other one fifth of the state then you need to go back and take elementary school math. I do not have a dog in this fight other than I am in favor of all games being moved to RRS but I can see the writing on the wall.

If you can't do the demographic math,  you need to go back to elementary school.   The population base is already fundamentally altering the makeup of the Arkansas House of Representatives;  no mandate for this will be able to clear the House in 10 years.    The State Senate is still going to be dominated by more rural and state-wide interests, but the balance of power is shifting.

[Pigsknuckles]

Guess we could make them our "Spring"  Red/Black game.

[Beavthompson]

How about a state drop it's athletics program all together. I would get cheaper tuition and not have to see that horrid stadium. astate would get more students. Then astate could dire most of its campus cops because of less crimes to cover up and start a campus beautification process. Plus more parking

[ark30inf]

How about a state drop it's athletics program all together. I would get cheaper tuition and not have to see that horrid stadium. astate would get more students. Then astate could dire most of its campus cops because of less crimes to cover up and start a campus beautification process. Plus more parking

Why are you attending a university that you don't like? 

[texas tush hog]

If you can't do the demographic math,  you need to go back to elementary school.   The population base is already fundamentally altering the makeup of the Arkansas House of Representatives;  no mandate for this will be able to clear the House in 10 years.    The State Senate is still going to be dominated by more rural and state-wide interests, but the balance of power is shifting.

I guess we will see.

[ark30inf]

 


I guess we will see.

He is right about the demographics.  The census is pretty devastating for the rural parts of the state, particularly the Delta.  Political power is shifting Northwest and the democrats are losing their base regions. 

[Beavthompson]

Why are you attending a university that you don't like? 

I like the university. I loathe the athletic department.

[ark30inf]

I like the university. I loathe the athletic department.

Interesting.  That's probably a long story.

But just so you know, it is possible to be an ASU fan and still loathe the athletic department.  For many ASU fans those two things go together 

[Wild Bill Hog]

No more likely now than it has been for the last 40 or 50 years.

[sigpooie]

Population has never effected the politics in Ark. 6 families have more to say than the rest of us. If they keep hitting the natural gas in the ne area of ark, there will be more power coming from that side than there has in quite a while. Good luck with the never give in group. Ark will play ASU before you or I die. And in 30 years they might be ready to join the sec.

[JIMMY BOARFFETT]

I would hope our legislators understand they have more important things to work on than scheduling sporting events.

[ark30inf]

I would hope our legislators understand they have more important things to work on than scheduling sporting events.

Actually....I would prefer that they not work on anything at all.  We would be better off.

[LXXIII]

I feel it is about a 60/40 split between legislators who care and who don't care about this issue at all.  However, of that 40% it would be an easy sell toward not playing it due to political pressures and favors.  Almost everybody keeps saying that the Razorback football program is independent from state control, but the factor everyone is missing is that the school itself is not.  If there was a legislative mandate (which again I don't think there will be) to force the two schools to play it would be with penalty to the school's extra funding such as loan approval and campus improvements.  It would hurt academics more than anything.

On the other hand, why is it assumed that Arkansas would pay Arkansas State as a rent-a-win?  If I were forced to play an instate school there would be no way I would pay them to come play.  The fact that everyone is forgetting is that Arkansas holds all the cards over Arkansas State even if there was a legislative mandate.  I know this is not the way things work, but Arkansas could very easily tell Arkansas State to pay to play up on Arkansas terms. Then if they didn't call them out in the media a uncooperative saying that we gave them a chance, and they didn't take it.

[ark30inf]

I feel it is about a 60/40 split between legislators who care and who don't care about this issue at all.  However, of that 40% it would be an easy sell toward not playing it due to political pressures and favors.  Almost everybody keeps saying that the Razorback football program is independent from state control, but the factor everyone is missing is that the school itself is not.  If there was a legislative mandate (which again I don't think there will be) to force the two schools to play it would be with penalty to the school's extra funding such as loan approval and campus improvements.  It would hurt academics more than anything.

On the other hand, why is it assumed that Arkansas would pay Arkansas State as a rent-a-win?  If I were forced to play an instate school there would be no way I would pay them to come play.  The fact that everyone is forgetting is that Arkansas holds all the cards over Arkansas State even if there was a legislative mandate.  I know this is not the way things work, but Arkansas could very easily tell Arkansas State to pay to play up on Arkansas terms. Then if they didn't call them out in the media a uncooperative saying that we gave them a chance, and they didn't take it.

Universities should be able to schedule athletic competitions with who they want and for whatever reasons they want without interference.  This is not a duty of government in any way.

What is a duty of government is making sure that all universities in the state have the best opportunity possible to succeed and progress to the highest level possible educationally.  There should be a plan in place to move every university toward Tier One status and toward a place as a research university.  In this the legislature has a role to force us to stop cutting each others throats.  We are not competing with each other....we are competing against 49 other states.  All of these universities should be cooperating with each other educationally and be forced to do so if they are not.  North Carolina does a VERY good job with this.  That may be a crazy goal....but it should be the goal.  There is too much regional infighting in this area and it harms the state educationally.

But mandating a sports schedule?  No thanks.

[chiefsfan]

No interest.  Id rather ASU focus primarily on scheduling BCS Conference games that we can win.   Once we start winning some of those...then we can take another stab at this whole play Arkansas thing.

We move to one money game a year in 2013 starting with a game at Auburn.   Id like to play Big 12 schools, but we'll see.   Our schedule will be strange looking with Memphis likely to drop our series when they join the Big East.  We need home games to cover that loss..not money games against Arkansas.

[Murr]

Stupid, really? How wise is it for a business to provide growth opportunities to one of their competitors?

+1
You don't want an instate school getting stronger at your expense.  I would be ashamed to not be able to sell hog memorabilia east of Little Rock due to the strong sales of stAte merchandising.

[NEastArkie]

Really, it won't stay in state???
If you pay troy one million and asu gets paid a million to play someone out of state.
Ok.
Why would you want to pay an out of state team when you could pay an instate team and the in state team  also get's paid for playing others.. Do you balance budgets for a living?
this would add almost 10% to the total asu budget of 11 million. What's uofa at these days almost 100 million. Our state does better when the schools grow, it's as simple as that and the fact that one school collects almost over 10 times the amount of the other.

The "keep the money in state" is the most stupid argument ever advanced for two instate teams playing each other.  As others have pointed out, money brought into the state by ASU went it sells itself out of state is as much or more than the UA sends out when it buys an out of state cupcake. 

If ASU really believed that silly argument they'd work with UCA, UAPB & Ark Tech to reform the old AIC.  But most people, including the people running ASU know better than that.  Idiots buy the argument & only people who are lying or idiots themselves use it as a reason for any two instate teams to play each other. 

Your use of budgets & budget percentages to support your spurious argument simply magnifies your own ignorance.  The size of budgets has nothing to do with where money comes from.  Completely irrelevant point. 

[NEastArkie]

short term answer to long term issue. If asu plays out of state the profits are eaten by the travel. If they play instate then the dollars spent by local people would go to schools in the state thus increasing the profit to those schools. simple as that. This game should be played in the rock since it would bring the whole state together for the game. While the gov has said to me as well, that he won't push the issue, he will back it if it hits his desk and he is a personal friend of mine for over 25 years now and one of the best govs we have ever had.

The travel costs are almost inconsequential.  The biggest cost for taking a football team anywhere is the lodging.  However, most major teams take the players to a hotel away from campus even for home games.  The only increase in cost is whether a team can bus to a location or has to fly.  Flying costs more.  But when compared with the revenue of a money game, it's a pittance. 

But if you're concerned about travel costs, ASU should try to schedule its money games with Memphis, Ole Miss, Miss St., Vanderbilt, Mizzou, or Alabama.  All are about as close (and in some cases closer) to Jonesboro as Fayetteville is.

Bottom line for all this is that money isn't really the issue.  It's simply that ASU is desperate for attention within the state that it can't really get without help from the UA.  If the two schools play, ASU gains credibility as the "Second school" in Arkansas--trying to be an Auburn or Miss St as the "rival school."  The problem ASU has is that almost no one outside Craighead Co pays any attention to it.  They hate that. 

The reason the UA shouldn't play ASU is that the UA's biggest & best asset is its almost unique position within the college athletic world of totally dominating its state's attention & affection.  Proportionately speaking, there are as many Razorback fans in Eudora, Texarkana, & Blytheville as there are in Fayetteville and Little Rock.  Even Craighead Co has huge numbers of Razorback fans.  And, yeah, many people in that part of the state support both schools.  Because ASU basically sucks hind tit when it comes to donations, ticket sales, media attention, and fan support, it has almost nothing to lose by seeing a divided state.  Because the UA now enjoys a monopoly that no other SEC school has (one of its few advantages over other SEC schools), it has nothing whatsoever to gain by risking even 1% of that.  A divided state is not in the Razorbacks' best interest. It is in ASU's best interest. 

If people want to support both, that's fine with me, but I'm not going to. I'm a Razorback fan.  ASU athletics simply annoy me--sorta like a fly at a picnic.  Personally, I wish ASU would drop its athletic program back to D1a or D2.  It'd save a lot of money & could put more of its resources into education.  I'd be all for that.

[Fayettechill14]

Really, you view ASU as a competitor.

Arkansas has a 50 year head start on ASU for it fanbase. For every ASU fan there is 50 Arkansas fans..do the math..no competition. Besides we are in the SEC. Let me repeat that , we are in the SEC.

Where's ASU? That's right the Sunbelt. End of story.

That's the problem with most of our fanbase. We're like the annoying guy in the neighborhood that's always looking to pick a fight. Arkansas State is like the neighbor's dog that we're trying to kill now.

[GuvHog]

That's the problem with most of our fanbase. We're like the annoying guy in the neighborhood that's always looking to pick a fight. Arkansas State is like the neighbor's dog that we're trying to kill now.

No, we're not trying to kill ASU. We're just minding our on business and they are minding theirs. The U of A certainly has no desire to pick a fight with ASU. Such a move would damage the Hog fan base.

[HoggyCat]

Beebe is termed out, get ready for it. Don't be surprised if he also puts in funding for their athletic dept. (indoor practice facility for one)

[Choctaw Hog]

Yet we should continue to give out of state programs 14 million over the past 20 years to play a crappy game in LR. That's 14 million of our money going to a crappy school in some other state like AL LA MS MO TN. It is a shame we have to get anyone to agree to a game like this. As a hog fan for over 50 years I am not afraid to play them and as a Arkansan I am very sure we need to money here more than there.
There would not be a better nonconf foe for us to pick on and it would help keep LR with a game. 

Actually, ASU should play all their games on the road and out of state.  That way they can bring back all that out-of-state money instead of redistributing money already in the state. 

[Fayettechill14]

No, we're not trying to kill ASU. We're just minding our on business and they are minding theirs. The U of A certainly has no desire to pick a fight with ASU. Such a move would damage the Hog fan base.

I said most. Your perspective is not one of the bad ones. The people that absolutely loathe ASU and actively cheer against them are the ones that are just being stupid.

[LZH]

Two words......Uh, no.  Although I'd like to see it, it's not gonna happen.

[WildTab]

I think there ought to be legislation to keep ASU threads off Hogville and UA threads off The Den.

What's The Den?

[sigpooie]

The "keep the money in state" is the most stupid argument ever advanced for two instate teams playing each other.  As others have pointed out, money brought into the state by ASU went it sells itself out of state is as much or more than the UA sends out when it buys an out of state cupcake. 

If ASU really believed that silly argument they'd work with UCA, UAPB & Ark Tech to reform the old AIC.  But most people, including the people running ASU know better than that.  Idiots buy the argument & only people who are lying or idiots themselves use it as a reason for any two instate teams to play each other. 

Your use of budgets & budget percentages to support your spurious argument simply magnifies your own ignorance.  The size of budgets has nothing to do with where money comes from.  Completely irrelevant point.

I guess I wasted the Boston College degree and 20 years advising banks and fortune 500s UH. People like you keep this state looking like a trailer park.. If you know so little about cash flow in the system why would you even take a chance posting this.. People who use the words like you choose usually don't really know what they are speaking about. So stop wasting area on the blog.
And as for your second statement, gezz I am just looking at my screen shaking my head thinking you fit what my grandmother use to say, "bless his heart he just doesn't know any better" Oh and I don't see any percentages in my statements,, I just see dollar amounts that were paid to other schools not in this state. (so you should under stand this) if you have 1 dollar in the bank here in ark and you send a quarter to MO then you only have .75 in the bank here. I hope this helps you and the others that don't understand what we mean when we say Keep the money here.