Arkansas deer herd too large?

[AcornHunter]

Judging from sign, sightings, kills, and shots heard, there seems to be bookoo deer this year in zone 15, very possibly too many.  I hope that AG&FC is not letting the herd grow too large and become fertile ground for disease.

[Albert Einswine]

Judging from sign, sightings, kills, and shots heard, there seems to be bookoo deer this year in zone 15, very possibly too many.  I hope that AG&FC is not letting the herd grow too large and become fertile ground for disease.

I like the way they do deer management here in Indiana. Limits are set for each county. Statewide, you can only kill one buck by any method unless you happen to draw a state park conservation permit OR you take an urban zone doe and then an urban zone buck. That's the only means for taking more than the one buck statewide limit. After that the antlerless limit is set for each county. In some counties you can only take one doe and that's it because of the low population density, but in most counties the doe bag limit is anywhere from 2 to 8 per county and you're allowed to go from county to county and kill the limit if you have the time and money to hunt that much.

What I don't like about Indiana is that the tag fees are $24 a pop. One tag, one deer.  Arkansas's Sportsman's License is THE BEST license in free world, hands down, and Arkansas has the best public lands hunting system I've ever seen, too.

Indiana sucks for acquiring tracts of land for sportsmen, as much money as they rake in on the myriad tags you have to buy to hunt anything in this state it begs the question of where in the hell is the money being spent?

[Albert Einswine]

Lost in that rant was the point I wanted to make... Craighead County doesn't have the population density of Dallas County and therefore shouldn't have the same bag limit as Dallas County.

In Craighead you hypothetically shouldn't be able to kill more than 1 buck and 1 doe, until the population density increases to the point that it becomes necessary to kill more.

In a lot of those South Arkansas counties the bag limit should probably be 2 bucks and 5 or 6 does until they bring the populations down a bit. But at any rate, our zones are too expansive for reasonable management and I think the county model is better.

[WADHOG]

Lost in that rant was the point I wanted to make... Craighead County doesn't have the population density of Dallas County and therefore shouldn't have the same bag limit as Dallas County.

In Craighead you hypothetically shouldn't be able to kill more than 1 buck and 1 doe, until the population density increases to the point that it becomes necessary to kill more.

In a lot of those South Arkansas counties the bag limit should probably be 2 bucks and 5 or 6 does until they bring the populations down a bit. But at any rate, our zones are too expansive for reasonable management and I think the county model is better.

I agree with your premise of micro management.  A few counties would need specific regulations within themselves.  Eastern lawrence county has very few deer compared to western parts of the county.  There are some others especially where the delta begins moving east.  I think doe harvest, or lack there of, is a high point of concern.  Many counties should require a doe harvest before a buck.  This along with a four point rule would be tremendous for the entire quality of the herd.

[hogdoc97]

I hunt Sebastian county. In my area, deer numbers are way down. I'm talkin75% down,(maybe more)over two years ago. I hunt private land. I would normally see 12-15 deer a day. I've seen four deer this year in about a dozen trips. My father has not seen a deer. I see some sign, but not much. So I don't think the agfc is letting the herd get to big statewide. I wish that was a problem I had to worry about.

[JaketheSnake]

Doe numbers seem way down in NWA.  Seen lots of deer, mostly little bucks

[twistitup]

Doe numbers seem way down in NWA.  Seen lots of deer, mostly little bucks

it depends...I've seen about a 60/40 split so far - more does. I'm hunting close to the white river east of Fville.

Rolled a doe up w the 22/250 this morning. Can't believe they were moving in that crazy wind but they were.

[pick_DA_EAGLES]

Today is the first time in 5 trips i saw anything,  saw 4 doe, 1 nice buck couldn't get a shot on him, and 1 deer, don't know what it was. All while fighting the skeeters.

[AcornHunter]

Hogdoc97,

You attribute the numbers beings "way down" to what?

[grayhawg]

Today is the first time in 5 trips i saw anything,  saw 4 doe, 1 nice buck couldn't get a shot on him, and 1 deer, don't know what it was. All while fighting the skeeters.

Spend 20 bucks and get you a thermocell, and you don't have skeeters bothering you.

[pick_DA_EAGLES]

Spend 20 bucks and get you a thermocell, and you don't have skeeters bothering you.

There was only a couple and i dispersed them pretty quickly, but does the thermocell work on lady bugs? 🐞🐞🐞🐞🐞🐞🐞🐞🐞🐞🐞🐞🐞🐞🐞🐞🐞

[grayhawg]

There was only a couple and i dispersed them pretty quickly, but does the thermocell work on lady bugs? 🐞🐞🐞🐞🐞🐞🐞🐞🐞🐞🐞🐞🐞🐞🐞🐞🐞

LOL!!!  I don't know about ladybugs.

[tophawg19]

numbers are down bad in SO ARK . too . i travel a lot before daylight and after dark and in areas where seeing 20 to 50 in a night wasn't unusual now you see 5 on a good night and often none

[DOGALUM]

I saw nothing at all today in Madison County.....except for millions of lady bugs. 

Number of deer seemed WAY down on/around our place. 

[pick_DA_EAGLES]

I saw nothing at all today in Madison County.....except for millions of lady bugs. 

Number of deer seemed WAY down on/around our place.

Yea lady bugs are bad.

[Albert Einswine]

Deer are too smart to move during a massive ladybug swarm/outbreak. Those little nasties are of the devil.

[grayhawg]

Ft Chaffee harvest down from years past, 377 total for the year including the modern gun and the muzzle loader seasons and two months of archery hunting. As recent as 8 to 10 years ago would have been nearly double that.

[AcornHunter]

I like the idea of managing the deer heard on a small scale.  Obviously I don't know deer density in the southern part of Zone 15 since I'm in the northern part of the zone.  The zone covers a wide area but is a mere child compared to some of the other zones.  Judging from the responses, the deer herd seems to be down in some areas.

Several years ago I deer hunted a lot in Texas, mostly the Hill Country, the Uvalde area, and a little in the northern part of the Valley.  Some land owners, where deer numbers were high, would have special doe permits.  I don't know the ends and outs of how they obtained them; at the time, I was just interested in hunting.

I'm deciding more and more that deer are much like people.  They'll be where the food and sex are.

Albert Einswine, don't be bad-mouthin those lady bugs:  I am a deer hunter AND a gardener.  The results of that last past time do draw the deer, and some years the very wanted lady beetles.

Have fun!

[hogdoc97]

There haven't been any major changes in habitat and hunting pressure is less. My best guess is disease. I've had several deer on camera with swollen mouths and very poor. Blue tongue is what it looks like. I've found a couple of dead deer near water also. Supposedly it is worse in drought years and we were definately in a drought two years ago. Maybe just a natural cycle. I don't really know.

[tophawg19]

i think the AGFC has brought down deer numbers intentionally to try and develop a big buck type situation . smaller herds means less competition for food and allow for larger growth . The does have been killed in large numbers to do this

[pick_DA_EAGLES]

I believe anywhere around the white river, the portions that floodes in '11, probably still haven't recovered from that. I know around des arc, we lost a lot of deer, im pretty sure it wiped out an entire crop of little ones, plus a lot of adults drowned and or starved to death.

[pigture perfect]

I've been 4 time and haven't seen a deer yet. I usually kill 3-4 a year where I hunt.

[jrulz83]

Mountain lions are the problem.

[kodiakisland]

I've seen less deer than usual this year.  It seems it goes in cycles and deer move a few miles based on where the best mast crops are.  We had very few acorns this year.  Plus, I've shot four coyotes and heard plenty others from my best stand. 

[Junkyard Hog]

I've seen more deer this year than I ever have.  I've hunted 6 times and seen multiple deer on every trip.  Killed 2 eight points and passed up several other bucks.

[twistitup]

I've seen less deer than usual this year.  It seems it goes in cycles and deer move a few miles based on where the best mast crops are.  We had very few acorns this year.  Plus, I've shot four coyotes and heard plenty others from my best stand. 

Persimmons were as heavy I have seen in years. I've seen deer pass up acorns for persimmons in our area. The 3 deer Ive killed so far was from a stand over looking 8-10 persimmon trees. Most years it's acorns....so far this year not so much

[1highhog]

numbers are down bad in SO ARK . too . i travel a lot before daylight and after dark and in areas where seeing 20 to 50 in a night wasn't unusual now you see 5 on a good night and often none

What part of South Arkansas are you in?

[Spikes]

Thick as flea's here off hwy 351, most food plots pics have around 15-20 deer's in the pics.  We had to replant two food plots due to them eating it to the ground.  We are taking them out left and right, but have never seen this amount of deer and turkey in my 20 years of hunting

[1highhog]

They're as thick as flies around my parents just like they always have been, they live in Drew County.  I have anywhere from 10 to 17 in my yard from 10:30 A.M to dark, everyday.  This is a buck I've watched this year in my yard all year, he and his sister was born here and have never strayed to far from off my property.

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[Hawg_Thai'd]

They're as thick as flies around my parents just like they always have been, they live in Drew County.  I have anywhere from 10 to 17 in my yard from 10:30 A.M to dark, everyday.  This is a buck I've watched this year in my yard all year, he and his sister was born here and have never strayed to far from off my property.

Man, that's really cool. I mean, deer come through our fields, but nothing like sticking around very much. To be able to watch them grow would be great. Pretty much pets.

[1highhog]

Man, that's really cool. I mean, deer come through our fields, but nothing like sticking around very much. To be able to watch them grow would be great. Pretty much pets.

Well to be honest, when they were first born, the mother just hung right around our place here, we have every acorn tree they would want plus a nice creek running thru, and a nice hill behind our house that she would go to during the afternoon and they wood just lay up there, we could watch them out our back windows on that hillside, just laying down, you wouldn't notice them really if you hadn't seen them lie down.  Then one day the mother disappeared, the little one both still had a few spots left on them, don't know what happened to her, but I'm sure someone wanted dome meat and took her.  But for the two orphans, they just hung around the yard, so I set up a feeder, a timed feeder, and they would eat from that until the nuts came in again, we watched them grow now for 3 years, the doe has had a little one, and she stayed right here with it the whole time.  The buck comes and goes, sometimes I don't see him for awhile, then he's back, right out in the middle of the yard, he feels safe out here I guess.  I even have a picture of one of them, don't know which one at the time,  we they were first born.  I had just came home, and the Mother had her two little ones about 20 yds out from our woods into our yard,  so I had gotten out and the mom decided she needed to get the little ones to safety, she blowed and ran, one went with her, but the other one froze in place.  I started approaching ever so closer, watching Mom, she was just barely in the woods, took out my camera, and stood over the now flattened out little fawn, who had stretched itself out to be as thin as possible on the ground.  I took several pictures and then, watching carefully for Mom, I got back in the house, they were beautiful pictures or at least I thought they were.

[twistitup]

^

I cry

[cbhawg03]

Well to be honest, when they were first born, the mother just hung right around our place here, we have every acorn tree they would want plus a nice creek running thru, and a nice hill behind our house that she would go to during the afternoon and they wood just lay up there, we could watch them out our back windows on that hillside, just laying down, you wouldn't notice them really if you hadn't seen them lie down.  Then one day the mother disappeared, the little one both still had a few spots left on them, don't know what happened to her, but I'm sure someone wanted dome meat and took her.  But for the two orphans, they just hung around the yard, so I set up a feeder, a timed feeder, and they would eat from that until the nuts came in again, we watched them grow now for 3 years, the doe has had a little one, and she stayed right here with it the whole time.  The buck comes and goes, sometimes I don't see him for awhile, then he's back, right out in the middle of the yard, he feels safe out here I guess.  I even have a picture of one of them, don't know which one at the time,  we they were first born.  I had just came home, and the Mother had her two little ones about 20 yds out from our woods into our yard,  so I had gotten out and the mom decided she needed to get the little ones to safety, she blowed and ran, one went with her, but the other one froze in place.  I started approaching ever so closer, watching Mom, she was just barely in the woods, took out my camera, and stood over the now flattened out little fawn, who had stretched itself out to be as thin as possible on the ground.  I took several pictures and then, watching carefully for Mom, I got back in the house, they were beautiful pictures or at least I thought they were.

Really cool story, it would be fun to watch them grow like that, but do you not get attached to them? Do they not feel like pets to you?

[1highhog]

^

I cry

You come by my house looking for them Twist, I'll be having you for breakfast,   

[1highhog]

Really cool story, it would be fun to watch them grow like that, but do you not get attached to them? Do they not feel like pets to you?

I actually do.  That's why I don't hunt them, I know this may found dumb, but it's like the deer around here know it.  A friend of mine hunts a piece of land that connects to mine on two sides, its a 160 acres that belongs to some doctor not from here.  Anyway, he'll hunt all morning long and then the access to his hunting property is just up above my driveway, he'll pull in if I'm outside and say damnit Mark!  I've hunted all morning and into seen nothing and come out and you have 12 in your front yard, what are you feeding them SOB's?  Lol, I don't say, but deer sure love 12% horse feed and it's cheaper than corn, and I buy it anyway since I have horses.  I don't hunt here, I either hunt in Drew County where I was born and my parents still live, or in Men's where my son-in-law bought around 200 acres smack dab in the heart of the National Forest, he's built a hunting lodge on it and bought those 6'x6' fiberglass stands all over it.  His plan is to one day have people pay to come in and hunt it, he's got game cams all over it.  He's got one great pictures of some monster bucks on that place.  I've already tagged out, I only bought the $10.50 license this year as did my wife, between us both our freezers are full.  My trophy this year was killed down at my parents place during bow season, not huge but he's a keeper.  Had to trail him aways, shot him further back than intended, but actually he was a young buck.

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[raz1965]

Nice bow kill but the $10.50 license don't allow bow hunting.  Maybe the game warden want read your story.

[BallHog1]

Nice bow kill but the $10.50 license don't allow bow hunting.  Maybe the game warden want read your story.

Poacher!

[str8volfan]

there arent as many deer as the AGFC would lead you to believe. Until they cut back on the season and make people stop shooting does, there arent gonna be any. It keeps getting worse every year.

[JIMMY BOARFFETT]

there arent as many deer as the AGFC would lead you to believe. Until they cut back on the season and make people stop shooting does, there arent gonna be any. It keeps getting worse every year.

We're not out of deer in this part of the world, but the archery hunter is getting screwed with that modern gun doe hunt right in the middle of October.  The good bucks around here go nocturnal when that hits.

[PharmacistHog]

there arent as many deer as the AGFC would lead you to believe. Until they cut back on the season and make people stop shooting does, there arent gonna be any. It keeps getting worse every year.

When you go sit and see 50 in one morning, I'm gonna say the deer herd is fine.

[str8volfan]

fluke

[BallHog1]

We're not out of deer in this part of the world, but the archery hunter is getting screwed with that modern gun doe hunt right in the middle of October.  The good bucks around here go nocturnal when that hits.

When they go nocturnal, you go nocturnal.....wait....

[Albert Einswine]

We're not out of deer in this part of the world, but the archery hunter is getting screwed with that modern gun doe hunt right in the middle of October.  The good bucks around here go nocturnal when that hits.

As an archery hunter I always felt like the muzzleloader season in the middle of October was a premature interruption of the archery season when it was really starting to get into the beginning of the pre-rut phase when it's getting optimum for the archer.

[JIMMY BOARFFETT]

As an archery hunter I always felt like the muzzleloader season in the middle of October was a premature interruption of the archery season when it was really starting to get into the beginning of the pre-rut phase when it's getting optimum for the archer.

I have always felt the same about the muzzle loader season, but the season the third week of October is pretty much a fixture after all these years.

[JIMMY BOARFFETT]

When they go nocturnal, you go nocturnal.....wait....

That's a great idea.  It would also cut down on the competition too.  I hate hunting in a crowd.

[PharmacistHog]

As an archery hunter I always felt like the muzzleloader season in the middle of October was a premature interruption of the archery season when it was really starting to get into the beginning of the pre-rut phase when it's getting optimum for the archer.

They arent interested in making anything better for archers or anybody else. Its all about getting more people into the woods. More people. More licenses. More money. Just my opinion.

[grayhawg]

As an archery hunter I always felt like the muzzleloader season in the middle of October was a premature interruption of the archery season when it was really starting to get into the beginning of the pre-rut phase when it's getting optimum for the archer.

This!

[twistitup]

They arent interested in making anything better for archers or anybody else.

It could be worse....we do have the longest season in the nation for archery.

[str8volfan]

Is it wrong that I can skin a deer faster on the ground than I can hanging up?

[grayhawg]

Is it wrong that I can skin a deer faster on the ground than I can hanging up?

No, but tells me your a lot younger than me.