Razorback Basketball History: Head to Head Rankings of Post Players

[eusebius]

Let's take a look now at the careers of our most dominate post players. I have chosen five to examine.  Dean Tolson ('71-'74), Scott Hastings ('78-'82) Joe Kleine ('82-'85), Oliver Miller ('88-'92), and Corliss Williamson ('92-'95). I am also not including Moncrief who is the school record holder by 13 rebounds over Hood.

Career Points Per Game:
1. Williamson 19.0
2. Kleine 18.1
3. Tolson 17.0
4. Hastings 14.8
5. Miller 12.2

Single Season Highest PPG
1. Tolson 22.5
2. Kleine 22.1
3. Williamson 20.4
4. Hastings 18.6
5. Miller 15.7

Rebounds Per Game
1. Tolson 11.7 (school best)
2. Kleine 8.3
3. Williamson 7.1
4. Miller 6.5
5. Hastings 5.7

Single Season Highest RPG
1. Tolson 13.2 (school best)
2. Kleine 9.2
3. Miller 7.7
4. Williamson 7.5
5. Hastings 6.7

Career FG %
1. Miller 63. 6 (school best)
2. Kleine 58.5
3. Williamson 58.3
4. Hastings 54.4
5. Tolson 51.5

Single Season Highest FG %
1. Miller 70.4 (led nation)
2. Williamson 62.6
3. Kleine 60.7
4. Hastings 56.3
5. Tolson 54.7

Career FT %
1. Hastings 74.8
2. Kleine 72.3
3. Williamson 67.2
4. Miller 64.6
5. Tolson 53.5

Single Season Highest FT %
1. Hastings 78.1
2. Kleine 77.3
3. Williamson 70.0
4. Miller 65.2
5. Tolson 55.7

Career Blocks  (N/A for Tolson)
1. Miller 345   (4 seasons, school best)
2. Williamson 94 (3 seasons)
3. Hastings 72 (4 seasons)
4. Kleine 46 (3 seasons)

Career Assists (N/A for Tolson)
1. Miller 296 (4 seasons)
2. Williamson 193 (3 seasons)
3. Hastings 159 (4 seasons)
4. Kleine 66 (3 seasons)

Avg Score:
1. Kleine 2.5
2. Williamson 2.6
3. Miller 2.9
4. Tolson 3.25
5. Hastings 3.4

My thoughts:

Tolson only had 8 categories, so his numbers were divided by 8. The rest had 10. I saw all these guys play but Tolson. He and Martin Terry are overlooked among Hog greats, and I have my suspicions why, but suffice it to say, they need to be given more credit for their careers. Their team records don't indicate the kinds of players they were. Tolson scored high in PPG and RPG but low in FG% and FT %.

Tolson is also a great story of second chances: You can read about it here:   http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Ex-Sonic-Tolson-makes-most-of-second-chance-1245178.php

Hastings was the forerunner for Kleine. Both were very good offensive centers and Kleine was a step up physically from Hastings. Sutton needed a big man to battle in a front court loaded SWC with Houston's Olajuwon, Texas' LaSalle Thompson and Carlton Cooper, and SMU's John Koncak, and Kleine was that guy. From '78-'85 the two big guys led the Hogs to 25, 21, 24, 23, 26, 25, and 22 win seasons.  Hastings is the best pure shooter of the bunch. Kleine was not a shot blocking threat for a center, guard Darrell Walker has more career blocks than Kleine. He was more of a position defensive player but definitely a dominant low block scorer.   

The Big O was the best passing and shot blocking big man we have had. His outlet passes were Russell-esque and his length of the court baseball passes triggered many a May-Day fast break. His '90-'91 season was phenomenal. Big O shot an NCAA leading 70.4 %, had more than 100 assists and 100 blocked shots in the same season.  He is the Razorback record holder for career FG % and blocks. Big O's ability to defer and do what was needed of him is crucial to his value. Most notable was his pulling Shaq away from the hoop vs LSU in '92 and allowing Todd Day room to work against the smaller LSU guards.  Miller is one of the most efficient players in his era of college basketball: high percentage from the floor, excellent numbers on assists, blocks, and rebounds.   

Williamson is the shortest post player on the list, and much like Moncrief, he played bigger than his actual height.  He has the best career ppg of the guys on the list and his rebounding totals need to be seen in light of the fact that he played with two nearly seven footers (Darnell Robinson and Lee Wilson) who cleaned up some of the glass.  Big Nasty did what the others before him could not, lead his team to a national title. He was physically dominant and savvy. He could run the floor, post up, and when needed hit a 15 footer.
   
Though Kleine slightly outscored Williamson in these metrics, I would clearly rank Williamson first and then give Miller a slight edge over Kleine. I would go Big Nasty, Big O, Big Joe, Tolson and then Hastings. The reason I give Corliss and Oliver the nod is that they would have been effective in either Sutton's or Nolan's systems. Joe was much better suited for Eddie's halfcourt game and would not have been a good fit in Nolan's style. Miller would have thrived in Sutton's low post dominated game and so would Corliss. My older brother who played vs Williamson commented that in Eddie's half court, inside focused game, Corliss may have been a 30 and 12 guy.  I tend to agree.   

Hastings and Kleine played against a better collection of post players as college basketball had better big men in the early 80's. As mentioned above, SWC competition featured Olajuwon, All American and USA '84 Olympian Koncak, and NBA center LaSalle Thompson, but the Hogs also squared off in either out of conference or tournament games vs UNC 2x ( James Worthy and Sam Perkins),  Ed Pinkney (Villanova), John Salley (Georgia Tech), and Patrick Ewing (Georgetown) and Kleine's career finale vs St John's Bill Wennington.  Miller faced Shaq, but he's the only one that Nolan's Hog's faced that could be put in the category with Ewing and Olajuwon and Worthy, all NBA Hall of Famers. Williamson faced some good defensive post players: Marcus Camby, Rasheed Wallace, Juwan Howard and Eric Dampier, but not quite the list or regularity that Hastings and Kleine faced.   

Ok fans, discuss and debate. And some of you who saw Tolson give me your thoughts on him.

[ballz2thewall]

you're gonna start one helluva fight with this one, eus.

go for it, man..

[Jackrabbit Hog]

Well, Tolson was overlooked because he played when the whole dang team was overlooked.  Hog basketball before Eddie Sutton was like your house before central air conditioning - it happened but nobody wants to remember it.

I'd rank Corliss first, simply because of his importance, impact, and leadership that resulted in a national championship.  It was hoped that he would lead us to the promised land when he was recruited, and that's exactly what he did.  That's enough for him to be on top in my book.

I'd rank Kleine second.  He played against the best competition at his position during an age of centers in college basketball, more than held his own, and probably got more out of his ability than anyone else on the list. 

Big O is third.  He loses points because of injuries and occasional attitude, but when he was healthy and properly motivated he was unbelievable.  Superb passer, great rebounder and outside shooter, and surprisingly effective shot blocker. 

Tolson probably fourth; again, if we'd been paying attention and had been good then, he might be higher.

Hastings fifth.  Very talented, long pro career, but to me he was as much a supporting player during his time as he was a leader type. 

Purely subjective ranking, with no regard for the stats at all.

[eusebius]

you're gonna start one helluva fight with this one, eus.

go for it, man..

That's the goal. Make the fans think a little. From my observations it seems the fans that frequent here are probably from the Big O era onward, so letting them look at Tolson, Hastings, and Kleine side by side provides some perspective of the quality of our post play.

[eusebius]

Well, Tolson was overlooked because he played when the whole dang team was overlooked.  Hog basketball before Eddie Sutton was like your house before central air conditioning - it happened but nobody wants to remember it.

I'd rank Corliss first, simply because of his importance, impact, and leadership that resulted in a national championship.  It was hoped that he would lead us to the promised land when he was recruited, and that's exactly what he did.  That's enough for him to be on top in my book.

I'd rank Kleine second.  He played against the best competition at his position during an age of centers in college basketball, more than held his own, and probably got more out of his ability than anyone else on the list. 

Big O is third.  He loses points because of injuries and occasional attitude, but when he was healthy and properly motivated he was unbelievable.  Superb passer, great rebounder and outside shooter, and surprisingly effective shot blocker. 

Tolson probably fourth; again, if we'd been paying attention and had been good then, he might be higher.

Hastings fifth.  Very talented, long pro career, but to me he was as much a supporting player during his time as he was a leader type. 

Purely subjective ranking, with no regard for the stats at all.

Jackrabbit,

Regarding  Tolson, and this is going on just reading articles and from my older brother's interaction with him on the Hill, he feels slighted by not receiving the recognition that he deserved as a player. All the reasons you cited are correct as far as the way the basketball program was viewed in his time. The Van Eman era was the first era of integrated play, it followed the football team's 1960's success, and it was not a successful time as far as wins and losses. They scored lots of points but were very poor defensively.   

I ranked Miller a lot on what his potential was at his top end performance. When he was in shape, and not injured, he was a very unique college player that I have not seen very many of. Miller, Glen "Big Baby" Davis, Dejean Blair at Pitt, were all heavy guys but very agile and nimble to be that size.

I never saw Joe and Corliss dog it. As good as they were, the played hard all the time. If Corliss had been about three inches taller and could have played power forward for his entire career in the NBA, I think he is a HOF player. But at 6'7, probably more like 6'6, he had to go to the small forward in the NBA. But even yet, he had an outstanding career, sixth man of the year/NBA champ.

Hastings is sort of the forgotten man, but he is one of the few ( I think Day is the other) to lead the Hogs in scoring for three or more years.   

[PonderinHog]

Hastings could take a charge as well as any player we've ever had.

[kappa72202]

Dean Tolson could jump out of the gym.  He would have had many more points but the dunk was not legal when he played and he got called for offensive goal tending because he was over the rim so much.  I saw him touch the top of the square on the back board many a time in practice. 

[ballz2thewall]

Dean Tolson could jump out of the gym.  He would have had many more points but the dunk was not legal when he played and he got called for offensive goal tending because he was over the rim so much.  I saw him touch the top of the square on the back board many a time in practice.

i dig the zip code.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

Hastings could take a charge as well as any player we've ever had.

He learned from Mike Young.

[eusebius]

Dean Tolson could jump out of the gym.  He would have had many more points but the dunk was not legal when he played and he got called for offensive goal tending because he was over the rim so much.  I saw him touch the top of the square on the back board many a time in practice.

Thanks for the input. I'm hoping more Tolson stories surface in the thread.

[eusebius]

Curious if Biggus or Erie have done Miller's advanced stats and how they would rank the five post players and why?