The world has caught up with pressure basketball

[The_Iceman]

True but it helps the have a shot blocker back there.

Of course, I was referring to the comment about the guards.

[jesterzzn]

All this thread proves to me is that many on here that I thought knew better don't understand Mike's system of defense much at all.

[code red]

I have said this from day 1.  Conservative  basketball is how programs are winning.  That and recruiting....realistically....how do you expect anyone in the SEC to compete with Kentucky?  We run with UK we will get our doors blown off.

[code red]

All this thread proves to me is that many on here that I thought knew better don't understand Mike's system of defense much at all.

I understand it perfectly.  Press....give up easy buckets on the other end.  In hostile territory it crumbles.....in the Bud it works great.

[jesterzzn]

Well, fortunately for you, you were not one of the ones I thought knew better.  I was already thoroughly convinced of the opposite.

[Hogimus Prime]

Of course, I was referring to the comment about the guards.

Ok.  The 2-2-1 zone press would be a good option to slow teams down.   The 1-2-1-1 would give the option to trap.   

[mhuff]

We must have Hawg Ball!  It is the only way we can succeed and while succeeding we need it for the entertainment.  Succeeding isn't enough.  We need to be reminded of the early 90s while watching.  Give us this and we return to prominence and BWA will be filled. 

Well yeah, because we pressed correctly then..... Our defense is not putting out what it takes to do things correctly. Our offense is even worse. Watch other teams run their half court offense. Ours is like the Keystone Cops. I guess we have to play against poor competition before we pass well. Hey, either run the offense through the inside or run off the players who won't do so. Oh, and play Kingsley and Portis together..... if you want to win.

[root_hawg]

I like the 1-3-2-1 press but it is hard to run

[popcornhog]

Worked great 25 years ago, because no one was use to playing against this style.

Now EVERY AAU team plays against pressure every game.

I am sick of watching this Sloppy offense and Poor defense. Go ahead and puke away another season! 

Thought we were trying to join the elite level teams; not like this.

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[GuvHog]

We must have Hawg Ball!  It is the only way we can succeed and while succeeding we need it for the entertainment.  Succeeding isn't enough.  We need to be reminded of the early 90s while watching.  Give us this and we return to prominence and BWA will be filled. 

A big part of Nolan's full court press in the 93'-94' Championship year was hand checking, his teams did a lot of that. Once the rules were changed to eliminate hand checking, Nolan's "40 minutes of Hades" was far less effective. That coupled with the addition of more media timeouts is why it won't work anymore.

[lefty08]

A big part of Nolan's full court press in the 93'-94' Championship year was hand checking, his teams did a lot of that. Once the rules were changed to eliminate hand checking, Nolan's "40 minutes of Hades" was far less effective. That coupled with the addition of more media timeouts is why it won't work anymore.

Arkansas issues have nothing to do with style, but rather the mix of talent on the floor. December is the month you figure these things out, and I have faith they will be worked out by conference time

[hogsanity]

Arkansas issues have nothing to do with style,

Funny, that is what we heard last year, and the year before. So, if it is not style, they why can MA not fix the talent mix? He has signed 4 recruiting classes.

[lefty08]

Funny, that is what we heard last year, and the year before. So, if it is not style, they why can MA not fix the talent mix? He has signed 4 recruiting classes.

Because we are 8 games into a 30+ game season. Its happening all over the country. Mike's teams have improved every year. Don't get caught up in message board fodder, think on your own

[Thepigdoctor]

Watch Louisville play and tell me the world has caught up to this style.

We need basketball players with energy and toughness.

Larry Johnson needs to come back and tell Mike that he better go find himself some men.

That's what we need, men. More players with heart, desire, and a willingness to play basketball with hate in their belly. We've got a couple real good ball players. We've got a handful of really solid role players. This team has not meshed like we hoped and they do not inspire each other to attack.

We've played soft in our last two games, and against power 5 teams, that shows.

[ballz2thewall]

Because we are 8 games into a 30+ game season. Its happening all over the country. Mike's teams have improved every year. Don't get caught up in message board fodder, think on your own

i tend to get caught up in the fodder on the court.  there's no contagion about. nothing systemic, spreading weakness among teams.  that arkansas has some issues is exclusive of what is happening at other places.  that they may be the same problems is irrelevant, with the exception that our criticisms may be illustrated and substantiated by corroborative examples elsewhere.

[hogsanity]

Because we are 8 games into a 30+ game season. Its happening all over the country. Mike's teams have improved every year. Don't get caught up in message board fodder, think on your own

I do think on my own. I can easily see the same mistakes being made, same prolonged scoring droughts, same poor on ball defense, same easy buckets by the opponents, same inability to identify shooters, same stagnant half court offense.

[lefty08]

I do think on my own. I can easily see the same mistakes being made, same prolonged scoring droughts, same poor on ball defense, same easy buckets by the opponents, same inability to identify shooters, same stagnant half court offense.

I've got to admit, although we fundamentally disagree, at least your posts are worth reading. Unlike other who pull out the dictionary and thesaurus, and others that write an entire thesis paper. For that I thank you

[root_hawg]

Louisville still has a half court offense and defense; ours seem to be if we don't get turnovers and easy layups, we can't consistently score

[Jim Harris]

A big part of Nolan's full court press in the 93'-94' Championship year was hand checking, his teams did a lot of that. Once the rules were changed to eliminate hand checking, Nolan's "40 minutes of Hades" was far less effective. That coupled with the addition of more media timeouts is why it won't work anymore.

So, they "changed the rules" after the 1993-94 season but Arkansas still made the championship game in 1995 without the handchecking? How did that happen?

I want to point out, the rules weren't changed, per se, the handchecking was an point of emphasis for the officials to whistle after the 94 season.

Anyway, all that said, wouldn't it be more precise also to say Nolan's teams were a little less effective after the 1995 season because the talent Arkansas had had up to that point, between 1989 and 1995, was not as prevalent after 1995?

[mhuff]

So, they "changed the rules" after the 1993-94 season but Arkansas still made the championship game in 1995 without the handchecking? How did that happen?

I want to point out, the rules weren't changed, per se, the handchecking was an point of emphasis for the officials to whistle after the 94 season.

Anyway, all that said, wouldn't it be more precise also to say Nolan's teams were a little less effective after the 1995 season because the talent Arkansas had had up to that point, between 1989 and 1995, was not as prevalent after 1995?

I think the truth is somewhere in between what you and Guv have stated. I can still see McDaniel putting his hands on an opponent and throwing him to stop his penetration. No foul was called......    I never liked hand checking and always felt good defense was played by moving your feet and not reaching in.

[Atlhogfan1]

We did catch a hand checking call break in 95 though in the SW 16 game vs Memphis when Corey was sent to the line on a hand check call and made a FT to send it to OT. 


"That was too light to be called a hand check," Memphis Coach Larry Finch said later. "Makes me sick. Just a few seconds left on the doggone clock and they call a touch foul. It's ridiculous. This is the national tournament. Ridiculous!"  Nice FCJ impression. 

[mhuff]

Larry Finch's players never fouled...

I watched Finch at MSU when he played.Finch was one of few players that used the window when shooting long distance.... . Finch could play some ball..... Fond memories.
R.I.P.

[Biggus Piggus]

What Clemson did to turn the game was press Arkansas. Looked like we hadn't practiced against it. Well, we probably did practice against a sucky press.

The world has caught up with bad defense. Should change the title of this thread. Pressure defense still works.

[PonderinHog]

Imagine that!  Pressing a team that likes to press...

[Youngsta71701]

I've played basketball my entire life and you are correct.  We pressed, half the teams we played pressed, it's not even a big deal. You look forward to it because you get more fast breaks and easier scores.. as long as you can dribble lol.


But you know what gave me pure absolute hell?  the half court trap.  A good half court trap against a team with athletic small forwards / long rangy guards is utter hell.  Beucase the court is restricted you can't run press breakers , you can't dribble backwards once you past half court. The worst game i ever had in my life was playing against pulaski acadmy's half court trap when they had jamal anderson / brison harris


I don't understand why a coach, any coach doesn't go tot his as their bread and butter. can you imagine jacory trapping pushing you to the side of the court and being trapped with qualls and trying to pass out of that? good luck lol.


all you have to do really to break a press is have a guard make a hard break and beat his man across the court and hit him in stride

It won't matter on the road. As soon as we get the ball handler trapped they will call a foul.

[Hogimus Prime]

The hand check started getting called more in the 94-95 season and it had a little effect but that team also lacked guard depth and had size.

Nolan's teams were different from the 95-96 season on. His guards were different, talent level, length, inside.  Everything.

From the 88-89 season til 91-92 Nolan's teams consisted of about three guards from 6'0" to 6'3". A couple of bigs (Big O/Credit then Big O/IBM) a forward in the 6'6 to 6'7 240-250 range them several 6'5-6'8" swimgmen.  The 89-90 and 90-91 teams had 3 McDonald's All Americans on them.  Those teams were long length wise, talented and versatile.  You had guys like Day and Huery they could play forward and guard

The 92-93 team was built similar to the previous teams with Big Nasty/Stewart in the middle, so this team wasn't as tall and lacked the shot blockin of the previous teams, but had guards and swingmen.

Those teams allowed Nolan offensively the play 4 out 1 in and at times put three guys in 6'4-6'8" range on the court at the same time which made the traps very effective

93-94 Nolan added Tank Robinson and Lee Wilson the two 6'11" bigmen but Tank and Stewart's outside shooting still allowed Nolan to play 4out 1in. 

94-95 team's biggest problem was lack of guard depth and the fact most of them put on bad weight and that made them all a step or two slower

95-96 had the two bigs and long armed forwards and swingmen, but lacked the combo guards and outside shooting of the previous teams.

In 96-97 everything changed. Nolan had some players leave added a couple of guards and mcdonald's all american swingman giving that team 3 mcd aa.  That team team had one in Wilson but he wasn't an offensive or defensive threat and that team struggled.

After this season Nolan really only had couple of god swingmen in Johnson, Chris Walker and Chris Jefferies, no bigmen or a true point guard. They had good guards.

So Nolan's teams went from usually having two guards, attacking 6'6" to 6'8" guard/forward types a bigman to two guards, swingmen and two wide bodies to a couple of guards, swingman and two skinny forwards.

What changed to wide bodied bigmen that could score inside or rebound and block shots, multiple talented swingmen and consistant guard play.

[GuvHog]

Watch Louisville play and tell me the world has caught up to this style.

We need basketball players with energy and toughness.

Larry Johnson needs to come back and tell Mike that he better go find himself some men.

That's what we need, men. More players with heart, desire, and a willingness to play basketball with hate in their belly. We've got a couple real good ball players. We've got a handful of really solid role players. This team has not meshed like we hoped and they do not inspire each other to attack.

We've played soft in our last two games, and against power 5 teams, that shows.

Louisville's players run the half court offense and defense well too. The Hogs do not play the half court game very well. That was why Nolan's 93'-94' team won the national title. Even when their opponents tried to slow the game down they played that style well too.

[mizzouman]

Imagine that!  Pressing a team that likes to press...

Even MA's teams at Mizzou had problems with the press. 

[hogsanity]

I was a hsjr in the 86-87 season, we go a new coach and he installed a 2-2-1 zone press and a 1-2-2 zone press. Over the next two season, we played ONE other team that ran a press of any kind ( unless they were behind late ). No one knew how to handle it. Now, seeing a team press all game is quite common, and teams know how to deal with it. 

[The_Iceman]

The thing Mike has failed to do is get guards that fit his system that are ready to play big minutes in year 4. I think Beard and Babb are that type of guard, but it took Mike til year 4 to bring them in. Whitt is another perfect example of a solid guard in Mikes system.

But since being hired, he has only brought in one guard that in still here, and that is Anthlon Bell. Watkins is a walk-on, and is a good guard off the bench, but isn't really what you need from a major minutes guard.

Going forward, instead of just focusing on getting long and rangy forwards, Mike needs to put a big emphasis on getting guards in here that are quick, solid defensively, and can score.

[Thepigdoctor]

The thing Mike has failed to do is get guards that fit his system that are ready to play big minutes in year 4. I think Beard and Babb are that type of guard, but it took Mike til year 4 to bring them in. Whitt is another perfect example of a solid guard in Mikes system.

But since being hired, he has only brought in one guard that in still here, and that is Anthlon Bell. Watkins is a walk-on, and is a good guard off the bench, but isn't really what you need from a major minutes guard.

Going forward, instead of just focusing on getting long and rangy forwards, Mike needs to put a big emphasis on getting guards in here that are quick, solid defensively, and can score.

Hmmm....think there is a Monk kid that could fill that role. I hate the thought of ever tying a coach to one 17-18 year old kid, because by and large, the odds are highly stacked against the coach. Absent a successful season this year, with a strong follow up season, if he misses on Monk and the team is not in the tourney, it could be curtains, right or wrong. I just want our program to be successful, regardless of the coach, but I have a bad feeling that if we miss on Monk, then miss the tourney in his one and done season, we may see yet another dreadful coaching search.

[Pig Worshipper]

Good pressure defense still works. Sometimes we don't play good pressure defense.

Our biggest problem is on offense.

[Iwastherein1969]

What Clemson did to turn the game was press Arkansas. Looked like we hadn't practiced against it. Well, we probably did practice against a sucky press.

The world has caught up with bad defense. Should change the title of this thread. Pressure defense still works.

most players do not want to be pressed....if you've ever played basketball the first thing you look for as a player when you bring the ball down the first trip on offense is to see if the opposition is in your jersey or laying back in a zone....at least 3 of 4 players are relieved to see that zone defense....I agree with you, when our press is operated correctly and turned up to the higher levels of pressure, it still works quite well...I'd much rather play pressure man to man than to sit back in a zone while the other team makes a few passes around the three point line, then enters the ball into the post who quickly finds the open caucasian for an automatic 3 ball in the corner pocket....it's like playing  H-O-R-S-E...advantage inferior athletes

[lefty08]

Doesn't look like Dayton has......

[Corkscrew Johnson]

Pressing works.  It works exceptionally well in the tourney when teams are nervous and uptight.  You just need proper execution, which we haven't had.   That being said, we have improved each of the last few years, and I expect further improvement now that we've actually recruited some guards.