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How Much Of This Is Still Lack of Talent?

Started by orvillesghost, September 23, 2017, 06:59:45 pm

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orvillesghost

This isn't intended as a defense of BB, I think he needs to go, will feel that way even if we managed to make a bowl this year.

But to my eye, we still look woefully slow on both sides of the ball and I felt, especially as the game went on, that the Aggies simply had better players.

Are we losing games like this in Februrary?

Bubba's Bruisers

Recruiting has been the same for years...practically speaking.  We will always be less talented than 2/3 of our SEC brethren.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

 

Martygit

Quote from: Bubba's Bruisers on September 23, 2017, 07:04:06 pm
Recruiting has been the same for years...practically speaking.  We will always be less talented than 2/3 of our SEC brethren.

What he says - and, it doesn't make any difference who the coach is - we can't recruit top talent to Arkansas on a consistent basis
RIP OTR, REV

Youngsta71701

How Much Of This Is Still Lack of Talent? Not much. The talent is there.
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

GunnerHawg70

Quote from: orvillesghost on September 23, 2017, 06:59:45 pm
This isn't intended as a defense of BB, I think he needs to go, will feel that way even if we managed to make a bowl this year.

But to my eye, we still look woefully slow on both sides of the ball and I felt, especially as the game went on, that the Aggies simply had better players.

Are we losing games like this in Februrary?

Whelp, getting whipped at the LOS on both sides of the ball problem #1.
Not containing Christian Kirk (accounted for 3TDs) problem #2.
Win the battle at the LOS and contain opponents star players and WHO KNOWS...😉

tophawg19

no they built this team as a power football team which means bigger but slower usually. We have talent and speed . Just need a plan to get them on the field . Chase, TJ and Jones are as fast as it gets . We just need to get them the ball more in space . Talent we have , ability to use it not so much
if you ain't a hawg you ain't chitlins

KennyForAD

Quote from: MartinGit on September 23, 2017, 07:05:19 pm
What he says - and, it doesn't make any difference who the coach is - we can't recruit top talent to Arkansas on a consistent basis

This theory has always been nonsense, and was proven wrong by BP. 

GunnerHawg70

Quote from: Youngsta71701 on September 23, 2017, 07:06:16 pm
How Much Of This Is Still Lack of Talent? Not much. The talent is there.
True but not the depth needed to be great!!! Talented football team - yes!!! Depth at the skilled positions with Major CFB experience - Nope!!!
Facts are Facts...
Agreed with recruitment being talented but not an abundance of Top Tier talent...

ShadowTheHedgehog

There are several layers to the current issues. As for the talent question, I believe that we have enough talent to put a better product on the field than the one we have seen.

We still have the problem of depth. The "stars have to really align right" for Arkansas in recruiting, in state talents etc. for us to build competitive depth. That has not happened in many years. The result is that one or two injuries can derail our season.

We need a coach that understands this and can quickly adapt to the shortcomings. I think that today we tried to force the planned playbook instead of focusing on what was actually working on the field with the available players. That is why AA took a beating. At the end of the game we made changes to put the players in a better position to succceed and we were more productive. But that is just my 2 c ps

Dominicanhog


Hogvillage Idiot

We don't have a deeply talented team, but we have enough talent to have beaten the team we faced today.  We've had enough talent to have done that multiple times the past 5 seasons.
"Winning is like shaving - do it every day or you wind up looking like a bum."

Jack Kemp

3Scoreand10

The greatest lack of talent is in the coaching staff.
They need to stop with the long developing passing game and go to the quick (2 second) short routes.
Maybe go to a 2 back set( one power and one speed) with an option game.
We have play makers but it seems this staff can not develop a game plan to use them.

alohawg

The biggest lack of talent starts on the sideline.
"It's difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on not understanding it."
-Upton Sinclair

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
― J. Krishnamurti

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Bubba's Bruisers

We lack speed and explosive, play makers.  Sans maybe Hayden.  Maybe Whaley too.  Lots of hype about Hammonds, but he's not playing much for some reason.  We are desperate for a playmaking WR.  Someone who's more than the ubiquitous possession WR.

Quote from: Hogvillage Idiot on September 23, 2017, 07:34:35 pm
We don't have a deeply talented team, but we have enough talent to have beaten the team we faced today.  We've had enough talent to have done that multiple times the past 5 seasons.

Agree.  Very telling that we couldn't beat a bad A$M team.  I like BB, but he's not going to turn it around this season or next IMO.  The sample size is now plenty large enough to see it.  But I want him to do it, though.  For the program, and because I like the guy.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

Dark Helmet Hog

We are at least as talented as aTm and TCU. No excuse not to compete better.

Poor coaching top to bottom.


LJHOG

Quote from: KennyForAD on September 23, 2017, 07:09:51 pm
This theory has always been nonsense, and was proven wrong by BP. 
He fell into a QB and a year when Arkansas had three top-flight WR's.   Otherwise his recruiting were pretty much less the SEC quality.  Same as every other coach since we joined the SEC.

hawgfan4life

When you play superior talent, you need a scheme you excel at, play mistake free, and be solid on special teams.  We fail at all.

DeltaBoy

Quote from: orvillesghost on September 23, 2017, 06:59:45 pm
This isn't intended as a defense of BB, I think he needs to go, will feel that way even if we managed to make a bowl this year.

But to my eye, we still look woefully slow on both sides of the ball and I felt, especially as the game went on, that the Aggies simply had better players.

Are we losing games like this in Februrary?
Bret didn't seem to have these issues at Whiskey! 5 years later and we have a shell of a team!
If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.

Kevin

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.<br />James 4:7
Reject Every Kind Of Evil 1 Thessalonians 5:22

IronHog

Quote from: LJHOG on September 23, 2017, 07:54:10 pm
He fell into a QB and a year when Arkansas had three top-flight WR's.   Otherwise his recruiting were pretty much less the SEC quality.  Same as every other coach since we joined the SEC.


Wrong, wrong, wrong
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

Dr Carl aka Shorthog

Lack of talent would still fall on the coach

Dr Carl aka Shorthog

Quote from: DeltaBoy on September 23, 2017, 08:31:10 pm
Bret didn't seem to have these issues at Whiskey! 5 years later and we have a shell of a team!
His recruiting rankings were not great at UW. He was lucky enough to be there when penn st, Ohio st, and Michigan were down.

jwilliamson67

A&M recruits top 10 classes every year. Arkansas has never had a top ten class.

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: Dark Helmet Hog on September 23, 2017, 07:45:24 pm
We are at least as talented as aTm and TCU. No excuse not to compete better.

Poor coaching top to bottom.



Maybe TCU, but not A$M. 

Yes, poor coaching.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

 

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: Dr Carl aka Shorthog on September 23, 2017, 08:35:17 pm
Lack of talent would still fall on the coach

And every coach that's been here since being in the SEC.  None have really made much of a dent. 
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

Youngsta71701

Guys, it's the bend but don't break on defense that is ultimately getting us beat more times than not. What ever happened to tight man or zone underneath with one or two deep safeties depending on the situation? Until that changes we are who we are.
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

Hawgphish

lack of talent or coaching?  Chicken or egg?  Doesn't matter, losses are losses.  The record speaks for itself.  There is not a team in the SEC West that would not fire their coach for that record.

jm

Talent is not the biggest problem. They have an attitude issue. They simply do not know how to win. They do not have the mental toughness to overcome any adversity at all, and seem to be far too casual at times.

Youngsta71701

Quote from: jm on September 23, 2017, 09:07:49 pm
Talent is not the biggest problem. They have an attitude issue. They simply do not know how to win. They do not have the mental toughness to overcome any adversity at all, and seem to be far too casual at times.
The head man don't have theat killer instinct so the players don't have it. Players take on the personalities of their coaches. Every time we had a chance to put them away today we failed because we were playing not to lose instead of stomping on their throats.
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

razorbackred1

Quote from: MartinGit on September 23, 2017, 07:05:19 pm
What he says - and, it doesn't make any difference who the coach is - we can't recruit top talent to Arkansas on a consistent basis


2 things .... the more you win the better your recruiting becomes .... secondly, until you recruit better players you have to have you kids in the right position and using the proper technique .... most of our kids are never in the right position on either side of the ball and their technique's are horrendous and that is 100% coaching!

Darren DeLoach

Quote from: IronHog on September 23, 2017, 08:33:03 pm

Wrong, wrong, wrong

BP was a weak recruiter....great offensive mind, driven, fiery, but terrible at building the relationships needed to build recruiting pipelines.
ο λογος υμων παντοτε εν χαριτι αλατι ηρτυμενος ειδεναι πως δει υμας ενι εκαστω αποκρινεσθαι

hogfan870

Quote from: LJHOG on September 23, 2017, 07:54:10 pm
He fell into a QB and a year when Arkansas had three top-flight WR's.   Otherwise his recruiting were pretty much less the SEC quality.  Same as every other coach since we joined the SEC.

Somehow coaches like him always seem to be "falling into" players like Mallet, Wilson, Knile Davis, Cobi Hamilton, and oh yeah, Lamar Jackson, but sure he probably owes all of his success to three players from Warren, Arkansas. This line of thinking is such a joke.

Jimbob111

"DO NOT POST IN THE GAME THREAD ANYMORE TODAY OR YOU WILL RECIEVE A 30 BAN!"--

Multiple play-by-play posters followed by "Good job, D" and "Way to go, Offense" is so interesting to read over and over as the team gets blown out and the coaches flounder. I can't figure out why game threads don't have 60 to 80 pages now.

Am I the only one that misses the old, interesting game threads?

jvanhorn

Quote from: Dark Helmet Hog on September 23, 2017, 07:45:24 pm
We are at least as talented as aTm and TCU. No excuse not to compete better.

Poor coaching top to bottom.


I watched TCU play Oklahoma State today and, I have to say, I do not think we are as talented football team as they are.  We probably under rated them before they played us.

Dominicanhog

Quote from: hogfan870 on September 24, 2017, 02:25:43 am
Somehow coaches like him always seem to be "falling into" players like Mallet, Wilson, Knile Davis, Cobi Hamilton, and oh yeah, Lamar Jackson, but sure he probably owes all of his success to three players from Warren, Arkansas. This line of thinking is such a joke.
Swanson, Flowers, D Johnson etc... yep, 3 guys from Warren is all BP was about...

jowl@themoon

Our current coach reminds me of the coach at Oklahoma in the late 1990's, John Blake. Great guy but couldn't get 11 guys on the field to punt after another 3 and out. New coach comes in and takes mostly Blake's players and wins the national championship in his second year, Bob Stoops.

havok

The fact the HC had to step in and Coach the Oline on the sideline should be one big alarm, that hiring a 3rd level Assistant coach from he NFL experiment, was a big failure.

He can't develop cohesion, identify proper positions for players, nor recruit.  BB fired Oline Coach Markuson at Wisconsin after just a couple of lackluster games and suddenly the Oline became one of best in country. 

It's very clear after a year and 3 games..this Oline coach has major deficiencies that aren't going to fix themselves nor get any better soon under his control.

Arthur pigby sellers.

Our recruiting rankings are generally similar or better than TCU. They have a much better coaching staff than us.  they are better able to evaluate prospects that will succeed on the college level and also better at coaching them to succeed. A and M has more talent than us top to bottom but they were forced into playing a true freshman QB against our senior. We should have beaten them on this mismatch alone.

longtimeHogfan

Quote from: Bubba's Bruisers on September 23, 2017, 07:04:06 pm
Recruiting has been the same for years...practically speaking.  We will always be less talented than 2/3 of our SEC brethren.

Unfortunately this ^^^^^^^

The best of the best will always get the best.  The rest will squabble over the rest.  Do we win to improve recruiting or must we recruit to improve winning?  With some very limited exceptions a change in coaching won't have a significant impact on recruiting. 
I don't like to plan my day because then the word premeditated comes into the conversation.

IronHog

Quote from: Darren DeLoach (semohawg) on September 24, 2017, 02:13:49 am
BP was a weak recruiter....great offensive mind, driven, fiery, but terrible at building the relationships needed to build recruiting pipelines.


BS

He used JC and overlooked players better than ANYONE.  Player development was also top notch.

His biggest factor was top QB play.
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

buldozer

Quote from: orvillesghost on September 23, 2017, 06:59:45 pm
This isn't intended as a defense of BB, I think he needs to go, will feel that way even if we managed to make a bowl this year.

But to my eye, we still look woefully slow on both sides of the ball and I felt, especially as the game went on, that the Aggies simply had better players.

Are we losing games like this in Februrary?
We don't have the talent that other teams in the SEC have but a lack of talent isn't why we lose close games like this. It is due to a lack of coaching. Period. And any talent deficit we have is also do to the head coach.

pigroots

We have very few explosive players. That's why guys like Chase Hayden look so different when they arrive on the scene. I believe that is our biggest struggle to match up in the SEC. We have good players but lack the top end explosive players

007 License To Squeal

Quote from: MartinGit on September 23, 2017, 07:05:19 pm
What he says - and, it doesn't make any difference who the coach is - we can't recruit top talent to Arkansas on a consistent basis

So is Saban came here, he wouldn't boost recruiting?
******Proud Member of Hogville.net since May 22, 2003, 08:17:38 PM*******

Piggfoot

Quote from: Youngsta71701 on September 23, 2017, 07:06:16 pm
How Much Of This Is Still Lack of Talent? Not much. The talent is there.
This is the problem with Hogville. I disagree. The talent is not there. True we have some talented players but it takes more than one or two. It takes an entire team and compared to other teams we have less. This is not an opinion of mine but of football experts whose job it is to evaluate football recruits.
Hog fan since 1960. So thankful for Sam Pittman.

longpig

The talent is there. QB had another off and on day.  Had he consistently made the easy throws, not held onto it so long, seen the open receivers it would've been a different outcome. 
Don't be scared, be smart.

IronHog

Quote from: Piggfoot on September 24, 2017, 10:23:28 am
This is the problem with Hogville. I disagree. The talent is not there. True we have some talented players but it takes more than one or two. It takes an entire team and compared to other teams we have less. This is not an opinion of mine but of football experts whose job it is to evaluate football recruits.


The general team is fine


They lack the playmakers like Kirk.


aTm is a bad team but they can flip the field.  Hogs best play is backup QB being huge Tebow
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

IronHog

Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

Piggfoot

Quote from: jm on September 23, 2017, 09:07:49 pm
Talent is not the biggest problem. They have an attitude issue. They simply do not know how to win. They do not have the mental toughness to overcome any adversity at all, and seem to be far too casual at times.
Often times mental toughness is the difference between winning and losing. Players may physically look like they should win but unless they have mental toughness they will lose more than win. Evaluating mental toughness may be hard to evaluate quickly.
Hog fan since 1960. So thankful for Sam Pittman.

Porkette

At least on paper, Arkansas has been recruiting as well as ever since we've been in the SEC (and better than TCU btw). We've always been "talent underdogs" in this league but have usually fielded a respectably competitive team in spite of that.

I just don't believe that's the main problem. However, the coaches may not be evaluating well or recruiting the right TYPE of player that they need.  It does seem like we always used to have more speed before Bielema.
GO HOGS GO!

Hogvillage Idiot

Quote from: jm on September 23, 2017, 09:07:49 pm
Talent is not the biggest problem. They have an attitude issue. They simply do not know how to win. They do not have the mental toughness to overcome any adversity at all, and seem to be far too casual at times.
In other words they are unprofessional in there approach.  Is it any wonder?  I mean take a look at their reggae loving, flip-flop and sweat shirt wearing, obese, and often times crying leader.  If that doesn't describe soft and casual then I don't know what does.
"Winning is like shaving - do it every day or you wind up looking like a bum."

Jack Kemp