Monk to the D-League

[tusksincolorado]

Facts hurt. It's disappointing I have to repost this link every year.

http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=603850.msg10013950#msg10013950

Going to Kentucky does boost your stock, period, regardless of where you fall as a 5-star player. If you have more than anecdotal BS to actually prove your arguments I'm all ears. My analysis did only go through the 2015 NBA draft, but since the past 2 years have had 5 first rounders and a 2nd rounder who is performing quite well, (Tyler Ulis,) not sure the stats would be any worse.

So what you are saying, is even though Monk had the odds slanted in his favor by choosing Kentucky, he still is failing to met his life long basketball career goals....

Man...over-blown egos are a beetch...

[Adam Stokes]

So what you are saying, is even though Monk had the odds slanted in his favor by choosing Kentucky, he still is failing to met his life long basketball career goals....

Man...over-blown egos are a beetch...

Yep, which is why I still root against him and feel zero guilt starting new threads about his failings. He would've gotten the full package at Arkansas, even had he dropped a couple spots in the draft. But he didn't want the total package, and for him Kentucky was exactly what aligned with his ambitions, for better or (likely) worse.

[The Hogfather]

Facts hurt. It's disappointing I have to repost this link every year.

http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=603850.msg10013950#msg10013950

Going to Kentucky does boost your stock, period, regardless of where you fall as a 5-star player. If you have more than anecdotal BS to actually prove your arguments I'm all ears. My analysis did only go through the 2015 NBA draft, but since the past 2 years have had 5 first rounders and a 2nd rounder who is performing quite well, (Tyler Ulis,) not sure the stats would be any worse.

No offense, but I don't think this proves what you think it proves.  There is no doubt Kentucky signs the BEST of the BEST every single year under Calipari.  Not just some of the top players, but MOST of the best of the best, so it makes sense that they would put a higher % in the lottery than other schools.  The stuff you are citing may be factual, but they don't necessarily prove your premise.

[outlawhogeywells]

going to Kentucky does not boost your draft stock neither does going to Arkansas lower your draft stock.  The NBA only cares about one thing Talent potential.  If Monk had come to Arkansas he would have been one and done just like he was at Kentucky.  If any of the other fabled players that were one and done at Kentucky had come to Arkansas or gone to some other school they too would have been one and done at those schools.  There is not way the snake oil salesman is making them NBA players in the short time they are in Lexington.  And Nick Mason is riding the Monk coattail as long as he can.  He is partnering with the Monks in forming an AAU team here is Arkansas.  This can't be brought up enough.  It is called the Woodz or some crap like that. 
Don't help this group with advertising or sponsorship at all

[Adam Stokes]

No offense, but I don't think this proves what you think it proves.  There is no doubt Kentucky signs the BEST of the BEST every single year under Calipari.  Not just some of the top players, but MOST of the best of the best, so it makes sense that they would put a higher % in the lottery than other schools.  The stuff you are citing may be factual, but they don't necessarily prove your premise.

That was covered in the post. For the Top 5 players, Kentucky does better. Top 10, Kentucky does better. Other 5-stars, Kentucky does better. 95% got drafted vs 72% for other teams. Feel free to find another way to analyze it. Of course they sign good players, but equally good players who go to other schools are less likely to be drafted as high as the Kentucky ones do.

[Adam Stokes]

going to Kentucky does not boost your draft stock neither does going to Arkansas lower your draft stock.  The NBA only cares about one thing Talent potential.  If Monk had come to Arkansas he would have been one and done just like he was at Kentucky.  If any of the other fabled players that were one and done at Kentucky had come to Arkansas or gone to some other school they too would have been one and done at those schools.  There is not way the snake oil salesman is making them NBA players in the short time they are in Lexington.  And Nick Mason is riding the Monk coattail as long as he can.  He is partnering with the Monks in forming an AAU team here is Arkansas.  This can't be brought up enough.  It is called the Woodz or some crap like that. 
Don't help this group with advertising or sponsorship at all

Talent potential is taken into account with the high school rankings as well. A player ranked #10 going to Kentucky doesn't have a higher draft potential than the #8 or the Kentucky player would be ranked higher coming out, unless they purposely rank UK signees lower, which is unlikely. But the data still shows that of both of those players, the Kentucky one is more likely be evaluated higher a year later when the draft rolls around.

[HoopS]

I don't know that anyone is saying Anderson develops better for the NBA, but players definitely show growth under him.

[Adam Stokes]

I don't know that anyone is saying Anderson develops better for the NBA, but players definitely show growth under him.

And I agree with that. Players or any talent level will have better fall back options, have a greater family atmosphere, and will have more personal growth if they come to Arkansas. Unfortunately that just resonates more with 4-star players. Anderson can absolutely win with that strategy, and we'll see it when we play Kentucky this year.

[Little Lady Back]

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/basketball/news/hornets-malik-monk-assigned-to-g-league/

Seeing this made my Christmas a little more merrier! Cheers to the Monks!!

[rude1]

That was covered in the post. For the Top 5 players, Kentucky does better. Top 10, Kentucky does better. Other 5-stars, Kentucky does better. 95% got drafted vs 72% for other teams. Feel free to find another way to analyze it. Of course they sign good players, but equally good players who go to other schools are less likely to be drafted as high as the Kentucky ones do.

Did you try analyzing Ky against the other blue bloods head to head? Unless you did you can't say they would be drafted higher than any other school, because you have lumped all "other" schools together and not taken them individually to see how they would stack up. For your statement to be true, it must be true no matter the school, and you can't know that unless you compare each individually. 

Edit: What I am saying is by letting Ky stand alone you have unintentionally slanted the data to favor them. Let's say there is another program who is ranking higher than Ky under your criteria, they would automatically be dragged down by being lumped in with the low scorers that might exist in your data.

[Adam Stokes]

Did you try analyzing Ky against the other blue bloods head to head? Unless you did you can't say they would be drafted higher than any other school, because you have lumped all "other" schools together and not taken them individually to see how they would stack up. For your statement to be true, it must be true no matter the school, and you can't know that unless you compare each individually. 

Edit: What I am saying is by letting Ky stand alone you have unintentionally slanted the data to favor them. Let's say there is another program who is ranking higher than Ky under your criteria, they would automatically be dragged down by being lumped in with the low scorers that might exist in your data.

Yeah it was simply against the field, so there may be a program or two that is better than Kentucky.

[rude1]

Yeah it was simply against the field, so there may be a program or two that is better than Kentucky.

It means your data is really invalid if you are trying to get a true picture of how Ky does putting players into the league as opposed to other programs. 

Let's say I want to judge my scores against the class, I average my test scores, then average the rest of the classes scores together to get an average, mine is higher so I determine I am the best student in the class. Well is that legit?

[Science Fiction Greg]

So > than average means there's a possibility that a couple might be better to you, huh?

I hate it to break it to you, but there's a possibility that up to half might be better.  And even a slight possibility of more than half.

[rude1]

So > than average means there's a possibility that a couple might be better to you, huh?

I hate it to break it to you, but there's a possibility that up to half might be better.  And even a slight possibility of more than half.

Exactly!!!!!! This is my point to him and why his data is invalid when he says Ky gets players drafted higher based on how he compiled his data!!!!!

[Adam Stokes]

I see what you guys were saying, though I was just trying to show that they did better than all the other schools did compositely with similar talent. Went ahead and combed through it to account for what yall  were looking for. Kentucky had signed 23 5-stars, 19 of which had declared. Eight other schools had at least five 5-stars signed over the same period, which we'll called "Blue Bloods." Those were Arizona, Duke, Florida, Kansas, Syracuse, Texas, UCLA, and UNC, they had 58 5-stars, 45 of which had delcared.

If you are a Top 5 player out of high school:

Chances of being drafted in the top 5 - Kentucky 56%, Blue Bloods 40%
Chances of being lottery or better - Kentucky 89%, Blue Bloods 73%
Chance of being drafted in the 1st round - Kentucky 89%, Blue Bloods 87%
Chances of going undrafted - Kentucky 0%, Blue Bloods 7%
% Still in college - Kentucky 0%, Blue Bloods 0%

If you are a 6-10 player out of high school:

Chances of being drafted in the top 5 - Kentucky 13%, Blue Bloods 0%
Chances of being lottery or better - Kentucky 28%, Blue Bloods 22%
Chance of being drafted in the 1st round - Kentucky 72%, Blue Bloods 58%
Chances of going undrafted - Kentucky 13%, Blue Bloods 22%
% Still in college - Kentucky 13%, Blue Bloods 27%

If you are ranked 11+ and still a 5-star:

Chances of being drafted in the top 5 - Kentucky 0%, Rest 13%
Chances of being lottery or better - Kentucky 17%, Rest 16%
Chance of being drafted in the 1st round - Kentucky 50%, Rest 41%
Chances of going undrafted - Kentucky 0%, Rest 19%  ***Entered name in draft and went undrafted
% Still in college - Kentucky 50%, Rest 31% ***Kentucky only had 6 total in the 11+ range, Ulis, Lee, and Wiltjer are still playing, all will be drafted according to NBADraft.net.)

So looks more of the same as the previous even among the blue bloods, though the Blue Bloods win in the 11+ that go Top 5. Just eyeballing it, looks like Duke is the only other team that places them as well. They are also the only team that recruits on par with Kentucky, as both teams have finished either 1 or 2 the past 4 years.

[RebHog]

I have no idea what that means.  Hurt off my chest?  I'm (wildly) guessing you are suggesting I'm hurt by Malik Monk's decision.  I'm not.  I think it was a stupid move on his part, but it didn't hurt me.  I think our basketball program was better off without him.  If that's not what you meant, you will need to clarify.

But I still think your statement that I should happy when any Arkansan makes the NBA is laughable.  Why on earth would that matter to me?  Or anyone?

I agree with this if a kid wasnt given the option to go to arkansas or had special circumstances on having to go so somewhere else sure I will root for him. In this case do I feel Monk is proud he is from arkansas? Doubt it. Will he comeback and contribute to the community?Doubt it. I feel he turned his back on this state...do I wish ill will upon him no but glad if he fails hell ya.

[hobhog]

Shouldn't this be in the Kentucky forum?

[rude1]

I see what you guys were saying, though I was just trying to show that they did better than all the other schools did compositely with similar talent. Went ahead and combed through it to account for what yall  were looking for. Kentucky had signed 23 5-stars, 19 of which had declared. Eight other schools had at least five 5-stars signed over the same period, which we'll called "Blue Bloods." Those were Arizona, Duke, Florida, Kansas, Syracuse, Texas, UCLA, and UNC, they had 58 5-stars, 45 of which had delcared.

If you are a Top 5 player out of high school:

Chances of being drafted in the top 5 - Kentucky 56%, Blue Bloods 40%
Chances of being lottery or better - Kentucky 89%, Blue Bloods 73%
Chance of being drafted in the 1st round - Kentucky 89%, Blue Bloods 87%
Chances of going undrafted - Kentucky 0%, Blue Bloods 7%
% Still in college - Kentucky 0%, Blue Bloods 0%

If you are a 6-10 player out of high school:

Chances of being drafted in the top 5 - Kentucky 13%, Blue Bloods 0%
Chances of being lottery or better - Kentucky 28%, Blue Bloods 22%
Chance of being drafted in the 1st round - Kentucky 72%, Blue Bloods 58%
Chances of going undrafted - Kentucky 13%, Blue Bloods 22%
% Still in college - Kentucky 13%, Blue Bloods 27%

If you are ranked 11+ and still a 5-star:

Chances of being drafted in the top 5 - Kentucky 0%, Rest 13%
Chances of being lottery or better - Kentucky 17%, Rest 16%
Chance of being drafted in the 1st round - Kentucky 50%, Rest 41%
Chances of going undrafted - Kentucky 0%, Rest 19%  ***Entered name in draft and went undrafted
% Still in college - Kentucky 50%, Rest 31% ***Kentucky only had 6 total in the 11+ range, Ulis, Lee, and Wiltjer are still playing, all will be drafted according to NBADraft.net.)

So looks more of the same as the previous even among the blue bloods, though the Blue Bloods win in the 11+ that go Top 5. Just eyeballing it, looks like Duke is the only other team that places them as well. They are also the only team that recruits on par with Kentucky, as both teams have finished either 1 or 2 the past 4 years.

Still invalid, you are combining those other schools in one pot, and Ky is being analyzed alone. The only fair way to do it is do each school individually. Go work though Cal

[Adam Stokes]

Still invalid, you are combining those other schools in one pot, and Ky is being analyzed alone. The only fair way to do it is do each school individually. Go work though Cal

I ran it against "other blue bloods head to head," compared them to the "smartest in the class" as you wished and you still don't like the results. Sorry you can't be pleased.

Arkansas's grand total of two 5-stars over that period can't hold up in any statistical comparison, the margin of error wouldn't work. And 50% would be undrafted thanks to BJ, and Bobby would sink based on him being drafted lower than his HS ranking. You can also feel free to include all the other Hogs Anderson has gotten drafted. You can run one yourself and slice up the data to make Kentucky look terrible, will certainly take some effort. Can send you the excel if you'd like. Go hogs.

[Smallie Bigs]

You know nothing about this kid. I'm guessing your opinion of him is based solely on third hand information, and have never really had any interaction with him. I can tell you this, while you sit on your fat ass eating honey buns and drinking diet cokes, he will be working to get his game where it needs to be to get back in the league.

This is very simple. GET OFF HOGVILLE IF YOU CAN NOT CONTROL YOURSELF! You obviously got your feelings hurt. You just couldn't control your emotions and had to start calling people names and being vulgar. Why? Is your last name Monk or are you someone who just pretends that you know Malik Monk because he gave you an autograph & shook your hand? Are you on a crusade to redeem the former Kentucky Wildcat in the minds of Razorback fans? If so then you are wasting your time and need to go back to YouTube and watch Monk highlights. Please control your emotions. Be a big boy. Go Hogs!

[TexArkHogFan]

Who gives a rats ass where he goes or what he does.  He is not a Hog or a Hog alumnus.  Put this crap in the trash bin and let's talk about some Hogs, start with Portis and Gafford who are or will be playing in the NBA.  Hogs for life.

[PonderinHog]

Who gives a rats ass where he goes or what he does.  He is not a Hog or a Hog alumnus.  Put this crap in the trash bin and let's talk about some Hogs, start with Portis and Gafford who are or will be playing in the NBA.  Hogs for life.

Well, that's sounds rather harsh, but I like it!

Dilly, dilly!

[rude1]

I ran it against "other blue bloods head to head," compared them to the "smartest in the class" as you wished and you still don't like the results. Sorry you can't be pleased.

Arkansas's grand total of two 5-stars over that period can't hold up in any statistical comparison, the margin of error wouldn't work. And 50% would be undrafted thanks to BJ, and Bobby would sink based on him being drafted lower than his HS ranking. You can also feel free to include all the other Hogs Anderson has gotten drafted. You can run one yourself and slice up the data to make Kentucky look terrible, will certainly take some effort. Can send you the excel if you'd like. Go hogs.

Ummm "other blue bloods" isn't head to head, you lumped a group of programs together that you considered blue bloods, averaged what they did then compared them to Ky, that just proves how Ky does against the average of those programs and says nothing of how it stacks up individually. I told you how it would have to be done to be fair, so at this point I am left to believe your agenda is to prove your belief that going to Ky increases a players draft status, and you have shaded the data to get to this conclusion. You might as well quit because nobody would trust your data on this going forward, and I don't care enough to waste time out of my life to do it correctly.

[Adam Stokes]

Ummm "other blue bloods" isn't head to head, you lumped a group of programs together that you considered blue bloods, averaged what they did then compared them to Ky, that just proves how Ky does against the average of those programs and says nothing of how it stacks up individually. I told you how it would have to be done to be fair, so at this point I am left to believe your agenda is to prove your belief that going to Ky increases a players draft status, and you have shaded the data to get to this conclusion. You might as well quit because nobody would trust your data on this going forward, and I don't care enough to waste time out of my life to do it correctly.

And no one with half a brain would do an analysis that has as few data points, so no you wouldn't waste the time to do it correctly because you couldn't. You don't want to waste your time doing it correctly but will bellyache at me for trying, go figure. Like the nagging wife who won't mow the lawn but will stand on the porch and complain about any little thing she thinks wasn't done right. If anyone around the country thought that coming to Arkansas would increase their draft stock over going to Kentucky, 5-stars would be lining our door. Mike Anderson gets paid millions of dollars to recruit and couldn't sell that lie, or we would've landed Archie or Monk. We simply go about trying to win a different way, and Anderson has to sell those pitches.

[FineAsSwine]

Who gives a rats ass where he goes or what he does.  He is not a Hog or a Hog alumnus.  Put this crap in the trash bin and let's talk about some Hogs, start with Portis and Gafford who are or will be playing in the NBA.  Hogs for life.

[dalefromspringdale]

It didn't bother me really that Monk went to Kentucky, its his life and that was his decision to make (or Marcus' ). But last year after the SEC Champ game and everything that happened there, I can't stand to see him and don't care what the future holds for him anymore. I hope MA uses this in recruiting next time Kentucky is trying to get one of our players. I can't remember the last time a highly recruited in-state player went somewhere else and they were very successful in the NBA.

[Inhogswetrust]

I see what you guys were saying, though I was just trying to show that they did better than all the other schools did compositely with similar talent. Went ahead and combed through it to account for what yall  were looking for. Kentucky had signed 23 5-stars, 19 of which had declared. Eight other schools had at least five 5-stars signed over the same period, which we'll called "Blue Bloods." Those were Arizona, Duke, Florida, Kansas, Syracuse, Texas, UCLA, and UNC, they had 58 5-stars, 45 of which had delcared.

If you are a Top 5 player out of high school:

Chances of being drafted in the top 5 - Kentucky 56%, Blue Bloods 40%
Chances of being lottery or better - Kentucky 89%, Blue Bloods 73%
Chance of being drafted in the 1st round - Kentucky 89%, Blue Bloods 87%
Chances of going undrafted - Kentucky 0%, Blue Bloods 7%
% Still in college - Kentucky 0%, Blue Bloods 0%

If you are a 6-10 player out of high school:

Chances of being drafted in the top 5 - Kentucky 13%, Blue Bloods 0%
Chances of being lottery or better - Kentucky 28%, Blue Bloods 22%
Chance of being drafted in the 1st round - Kentucky 72%, Blue Bloods 58%
Chances of going undrafted - Kentucky 13%, Blue Bloods 22%
% Still in college - Kentucky 13%, Blue Bloods 27%

If you are ranked 11+ and still a 5-star:

Chances of being drafted in the top 5 - Kentucky 0%, Rest 13%
Chances of being lottery or better - Kentucky 17%, Rest 16%
Chance of being drafted in the 1st round - Kentucky 50%, Rest 41%
Chances of going undrafted - Kentucky 0%, Rest 19%  ***Entered name in draft and went undrafted
% Still in college - Kentucky 50%, Rest 31% ***Kentucky only had 6 total in the 11+ range, Ulis, Lee, and Wiltjer are still playing, all will be drafted according to NBADraft.net.)

So looks more of the same as the previous even among the blue bloods, though the Blue Bloods win in the 11+ that go Top 5. Just eyeballing it, looks like Duke is the only other team that places them as well. They are also the only team that recruits on par with Kentucky, as both teams have finished either 1 or 2 the past 4 years.

I would be curious as to how many of those 5 stars are starters on their NBA team after 3 years and again at 5 years even still on an NBA roster much less starting.

[Biggus Piggus]

Kentucky players have a history of being overrated in the draft. Great. The NBA will learn and compensate. It takes time and a consistent record of underperformance before they learn.

[rude1]

And no one with half a brain would do an analysis that has as few data points, so no you wouldn't waste the time to do it correctly because you couldn't. You don't want to waste your time doing it correctly but will bellyache at me for trying, go figure. Like the nagging wife who won't mow the lawn but will stand on the porch and complain about any little thing she thinks wasn't done right. If anyone around the country thought that coming to Arkansas would increase their draft stock over going to Kentucky, 5-stars would be lining our door. Mike Anderson gets paid millions of dollars to recruit and couldn't sell that lie, or we would've landed Archie or Monk. We simply go about trying to win a different way, and Anderson has to sell those pitches.

Take your analysis and go to Ky with it, since you are dying to prove they are the premier stop for any kid who wants to be one and done. Just like your boy Cal, it doesn't bother you how you have to slant the truth to get your agenda/lie across................

[Porked Tongue]

Beyond me to see why anyone would want to stand in here and prop up Kentucky.

[PonderinHog]

Beyond me to see why anyone would want to stand in here and prop up Kentucky.

Hell, my dad went to Kentucky('35-'39) and he was a Razorback fan!   

SCRUK!