Sutton to Anderson, Coach accomplishments 7 years in.

[HognitiveDissonance]

It's all in how one does it or how one says it. Filing that lawsuit against the U of A has kept Nolan from getting some of the accolades he earned. The day he stands before cameras in a press conference and apologizes for filing that lawsuit is the day plans start being made to either name the BWA court after him or to change the name of BWA to:

Walton
Richardson
Arena.

To be honest, I'm just not a big fan of all these 'honors'.

The old athletic complex was named the Broyles Complex for a long time. Ok. So why is there a need to name the field after him, too? Contrived.
The baseball field is some ridiculous name like 'Charlie Baum Stadium at George Cole Field'. Contrived.
Leave the arena alone. Bud Walton Arena is perfectly fine. We don't need a court named after anybody. The people who need to be honored...Nolan, Eddie, Sidney, Corliss...they all have banners and are being honored. The 1994 team has a banner. All the Final 4 teams have banners.

Enough is enough.

[Kevin]

in today's college basketball, what would the expectations of an average coach be?

[zebradynasty]

The difference is that Nolan always had a chip on his shoulder and wanted to go that route. Stan Heath did not. Mike Anderson doesn't either, if it came to that. MA would never file a lawsuit.
And that's kinda the point, anyway, If you're a minority, no matter what the circumstances are, you can always file a lawsuit and claim bias.
Lou Holtz couldn't go that route, obviously. He didn't have that card to play.
Nolan WANTED to napalm the UA. And we're still feeling the effects in the basketball program today.
Nolan didn't even want the job anymore. He was just trying to do damage.

Actually, I never think about Nolan or the lawsuit. But since this discussion came up, the more I think about it, the more peeved I get. Most people forget all that and move on and just remember the good times, which I do too mostly. But a banner in the arena is enough. Anything more would be inappropriate, all things considered.

Your post is far is weaker than Nolan's claim! EVERTHING you posted above is your opinion and conjecture. How can you say you know what a man thinks?

Discrimination is not a one trick pony. There a few other basis to file...race, religion, color, sex (including pregnancy, gender identity, and sexual orientation), parental status, national origin, age, disability, family medical history or genetic information, political affiliation, military service, or other non-merit based factors.

[HognitiveDissonance]

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? IF UA had wanted to they could have discipline him they didn't.

It means you need to be careful when you accuse others of using offensive remarks.

So if the UA didn't discipline, that makes it ok. Sounds like someone arguing above if the UA pays you then you can't complain about anything...

[jvanhorn]

Eddie and his demons needed a change of scenery from Fay and the disaster that happened at UK.  What made his career so impressive was the program build he did at both Arkansas and Ok St.   The arenas at both programs had to be renovated and expanded due to his success.  He wasn't a coach who had a short run with one or two groups of players at one program.  He was able to replicate it which is rare to do to the point he took both programs and for the years he maintained it at both programs.  Few coaches have done it.  Roy Williams is one but did it at college basketball royalty.  Eddie just wasn't able to get the NC. 

Nolan was obviously the more accomplished coach at Arkansas. 

Both should be celebrated for what they did here.

That is interesting.  How long was Self at Illinois before he came to Kansas and what did he accomplish there.  Kansas is, for sure, royalty, but Illinois not so much.

[hogfan10]

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? IF UA had wanted to they could have discipline him they didn't.

Well, they did fire him.
Fact of the matter is you can be an ass when you're winning at a high rate, but have a downturn and all those outburst can come back to haunt you.

[zebradynasty]

It's all in how one does it or how one says it. Filing that lawsuit against the U of A has kept Nolan from getting some of the accolades he earned. The day he stands before cameras in a press conference and apologizes for filing that lawsuit is the day plans start being made to either name the BWA court after him or to change the name of BWA to:

Walton
Richardson
Arena.

I dunno about naming the whole arena after him because Walton wrote the check and therefore deserves it to bear his name. Nolan certainly helped pay for it and made it necessary to build so naming the court after him is good enough tribute.

[HognitiveDissonance]

Your post is far is weaker than Nolan's claim! EVERTHING you posted above is your opinion and conjecture. How can you say you know what a man thinks?

Discrimination is not a one trick pony. There a few other basis to file...race, religion, color, sex (including pregnancy, gender identity, and sexual orientation), parental status, national origin, age, disability, family medical history or genetic information, political affiliation, military service, or other non-merit based factors.

"If they pay me the money, they can take the job tomorrow."

Now hear come the 'he didn't really mean it' and 'he was just crying for help'. I've heard all that before.
No. He meant what he said. Nolan was tired, and he didn't really want the job anymore. He said exactly what he felt.

Not my words.

[hogfan10]

Sounds like someone arguing above if the UA pays you then you can't complain about anything...

I think I said that, and I think what I said has been misinterpretted.
What I meant to say, is that if NR was so discriminated against, then why did he stay at Arkansas for 18 years. Seems odd, especially considering he had other opportunities, more than one, to coach elsewhere; including in the NBA.

[zebradynasty]

It means you need to be careful when you accuse others of using offensive remarks.

So if the UA didn't discipline, that makes it ok. Sounds like someone arguing above if the UA pays you then you can't complain about anything...

No your butt hurt is that he filed the lawsuit. I am saying he simply exercised his right. The judge agreed with me that there was nothing frivolous about the lawsuit. Ended like countless others it's not what you know it's what you can prove. UA chose not to exercise it's right nobody stopped them. Even if they didn't because the didn't want to have to deal with the S-storm that would follow. That has nothing to do with Nolan filing his.

[HognitiveDissonance]

I think I said that, and I think what I said has been misinterpretted.
What I meant to say, is that if NR was so discriminated against, then why did he stay at Arkansas for 18 years. Seems odd, especially considering he had other opportunities, more than one, to coach elsewhere; including in the NBA.

No it was earlier. The statement was the UA paid Nolan (and other coaches) very handsomely.

So someone said that doesn't mean they lose their right to complain, so Nolan's lawsuit was fine. I'm paraphrasing.

[zebradynasty]

"If they pay me the money, they can take the job tomorrow."

Now hear come the 'he didn't really mean it' and 'he was just crying for help'. I've heard all that before.
No. He meant what he said. Nolan was tired, and he didn't really want the job anymore. He said exactly what he felt.

Not my words.

Had he said Pay me...then one could say for certain what he meant. The word "if" is far from definitive. Especially when he had not made his wishes known prior to that statement not to coach anymore. See, we can play this I know what he was thinking game all day. Doesn't change anything. Nolan is fired, UA got drugged in the court public of opinion. Not to pretend to know what he thinks, but since that has been the going theme....If Nolan had it to do it again he would!

[EastexHawg]

SWC for both Eddie and Nolan. Different selection criteria than Heath.

Much tougher to get in these days.

No, it's not.  IIRC early in Sutton's time there were only 32 teams in the tournament.  And...this isn't football.  The SEC isn't verifiably stronger than the SWC was back then.  Houston was an outstanding program under Guy Lewis...as in Elvin Hayes and breaking UCLA's 47 game win streak a few years earlier, Otis Birdsong in the middle, and Phi Slamma Jamma a few years later.  Texas had some outstanding teams and won the NIT when the NIT was actually at good tournament.  SMU with Ira Terrell and later Jon Koncak, Tech with Rick Bullock was good, A&M had some very good teams under Shelby Metcalf, including two Sweet Sixteens and six SWC championshis...

Sutton's first team went 11-3 in conference to finish second but was left out of the tournament.  His second team was 19-9 but again didn't make the smaller field.  Those were the only two seasons out of eleven that his Hogs weren't in the Dance.

[HognitiveDissonance]

No your butt hurt is that he filed the lawsuit. I am saying he simply exercised his right. The judge agreed with me that there was nothing frivolous about the lawsuit. Ended like countless others it's not what you know it's what you can prove. UA chose not to exercise it's right nobody stopped them. Even if they didn't because the didn't want to have to deal with the S-storm that would follow. That has nothing to do with Nolan filing his.

And you totally ignored what I said that no judge is just going to dismiss a racial suit in today's climate. Even if he felt it was completely frivolous, he's going to make it look good and hear all the arguments.

It was a frivolous lawsuit. Darn right I'm mad. I love the Hogs and Razorback basketball is my favorite sport. GUILTY as charged.

What you said about the UA not disciplining Nolan for his remarks is amazing and very telling. 'Even if they didn't because they didn't want to have to deal with the S-storm that would follow'.   Exactly. Anything involving Nolan was/is highly sensitive. Even when well deserved, the UA wasn't going to open that can because they didn't want to deal with all the claims of 'unfair' treatment of Nolan. Which is kinda the whole point. You hit the nail on the head.

[zebradynasty]

And you totally ignored what I said that no judge is just going to dismiss a racial suit in today's climate. Even if he felt it was completely frivolous, he's going to make it look good and hear all the arguments.

It was a frivolous lawsuit. Darn right I'm mad. I love the Hogs and Razorback basketball is my favorite sport. GUILTY as charged.

What you said about the UA not disciplining Nolan for his remarks is amazing and very telling. 'Even if they didn't because they didn't want to have to deal with the S-storm that would follow'.   Exactly. Anything involving Nolan was/is highly sensitive. Even when well deserved, the UA wasn't going to open that can because they didn't want to deal with all the claims of 'unfair' treatment of Nolan. Which is kinda the whole point. You hit the nail on the head.

You're making sweeping generalizations that are just not true. Judges throw out racial  discrimination (and others too) cases all the time. FACT: Very few racial discriminations are actually won by the party that claims discrimination. It's just that when the plaintiff wins it makes for great headlines.

You don't think that Nolan knew it was going to hit the fan?! Nolan stood up for what he believed in RIGHT or WRONG. UA didn't that's the only difference I see.

[FineAsSwine]

And surely you will also remember Nolan using the perjorative terms 't****' and 'a*******' talking about all our cracker, white fans. Remember that racist remark?

When did "turds and a-holes" become a racist term? Also, Nolan never, ever called Razorback fans, or anyone else, crackers. This is ridiculous.

Nolan said our fans were great except about 5% who were the "turds and a-holes" he was referring to. He probably included in that 5% the so called fans who called his style of play "ni---r ball" and "rat ball" while KY and Petino played "uptempo". Or maybe he was referring to the supposed "fans" who called in bomb threats to his home. Or maybe it was the "fan" who shot his horse.

Nolan always loved real Hog fans and especially the students. Stop trying to rewrite history.

[hogfan10]

Had he said Pay me...then one could say for certain what he meant. The word "if" is far from definitive. Especially when he had not made his wishes known prior to that statement not to coach anymore. See, we can play this I know what he was thinking game all day. Doesn't change anything. Nolan is fired, UA got drugged in the court public of opinion. Not to pretend to know what he thinks, but since that has been the going theme....If Nolan had it to do it again he would!

"IF" as in if they pay me I'll leave, and if they don't they'll have to fire me.
They paid him, but still had to fire him, because he decided not to leave.

[hogfan10]

Nolan stood up for what he believed in RIGHT or WRONG.

Unfortunately for Nolan, he was wrong.

[zebradynasty]

Unfortunately for Nolan, he was wrong.

True

[Atlhogfan1]

Nolan came from a different time and experiences.  Add in the way that mediocre Nutt was coddled and paid more while he was ignored. Losses were coming more often.  Recruiting had gotten tougher with the JC restrictions and the AAU influence.   I don't hold his frustration against him.   Frank and White disrespected him.   Wish it could have ended better. 

[hogfan10]

Nolan came from a different time and experiences.  Add in the way that mediocre Nutt was coddled and paid more while he was ignored. Losses were coming more often.  Recruiting had gotten tougher with the JC restrictions and the AAU influence.   I don't hold his frustration against him.   Frank and White disrespected him.   Wish it could have ended better. 

How did FB and JW disrespect him, by holding him to a standard?
Regardless of how you feel about Nutt, the fact of the matter is football coaches make more than basketball coaches. Even with that NR was paid very well, and he was earning a top salary for basketball coaches at the time.
Sure hope DVH doesn't ever buy into NR's thinking, or he'll realize he's being paid less than Football & Basketball while getting better results.
Fact is they are different sports, with different expectations, & with different pay scales.
Kinda like a brain surgeon and a family practice doctor, both doctors, different pay scales.

[FineAsSwine]

Unfortunately for Nolan, he was wrong.

He was right, he was just wasn't able to win by a preponderance of the evidence (some of which was omitted for technical reasons and would have been very supportive of Nolan's claims).

[Atlhogfan1]

How did FB and JW disrespect him, by holding him to a standard?
Regardless of how you feel about Nutt, the fact of the matter is football coaches make more than basketball coaches. Even with that NR was paid very well, and he was earning a top salary for basketball coaches at the time.
Sure hope DVH doesn't ever buy into NR's thinking, or he'll realize he's being paid less than Football & Basketball while getting better results.
Fact is they are different sports, with different expectations, & with different pay scales.
Kinda like a brain surgeon and a family practice doctor, both doctors, different pay scales.

Nolan was ignored.

I didn't post this because I'm typing on Phone and didn't care to get into it.   The other side of it is no matter how much some whine and deny, Ark athletics was built on football.  Football was built by Frank.  Football is priority. So it is understandable why he would play favorites.  This bothered Nolan given the success he had. Frank still shouldn't have ignored him while coddling Dale.

Nolan was paid well and was not an innocent victim in all of this including the program declining under his watch. 

[maggiesue]

Let me try again with haters like you.you may as well suck it up.because you guys have lost.Mike Anderson is going to be the coach here no matter if you like it or not.so you may as well stop all your whining and crying.as long as mike is winning games and selling out Bud Walton,he is going to be the coach here.there was 20,000 people in Bud Walton for the OSU game.fans are excited about the program.that's why games are selling out.only haters and crybaby's like you are unhappy.

Proves yet again that FCJ either has a hidden agenda or is clueless about basketball.  Nobody is excit d about Arkansas basketball anymore!  The product is stale and poor.  You want excitement, go back to Eddie days and the Nolan early years.  Well coached basketball with players that can play both ends of the court is exciting...this is not.  Mediocre A&M will run them out of the gym tonight.

[hogfan10]

Nolan was ignored.

I didn't post this because I'm typing on Phone and didn't care to get into it.   The other side of it is no matter how much some whine and deny, Ark athletics was built on football.  Football was built by Frank.  Football is priority. So it is understandable why he would play favorites.  This bothered Nolan given the success he had. Frank still shouldn't have ignored him while coddling Dale.

Nolan was paid well and was not an innocent victim in all of this including the program declining under his watch. 

He wasn't ignored, he got what he wanted. If he felt ignored, it was of his own doing. He requested that FB not be his superior/boss, and that JW serve that role. He got exactly that. If he felt ignored it's probably due to the President of the university having more than basketball on his plate, imagine that. NR was basically his own AD, he had full control of his program, which was exactly what he wanted.

[k.c.hawg]

Name the court after Nolan. It's quite obvious this program could never sustain 3 Final Fours and an Elite 8 in 6 years. For all of Nolan's detractors the great Eddie Sutton that played basketball "the way it should be played" never came close to that level of success. Nolan will be the greatest coach to ever coach there, Eddie was a damn good second, and Bud Walton loved Nolan and would love to have his court bearing Nolan's name.

[Kevin]

Slobberin hog and name the court after Nolan. Let's do this hunter

[ParkerSchnabel]

Don't get me wrong, if we could clone a young Nolan and hire him tomorrow it would make my year, shoot I think even Mike would love to coach for Nolan again, but that's not going to happen, and the numbers do not lie, Mike has done well and hopefully will make Arkansas the force it once was.

As for Sutton he was successful, but I hated watching his style of play.

Nolan had several advantages that Mike and Eddie NEVER had. Nolan was the first black coach pretty much in the entire South during the first few years of his tenure. At least in the SWC and SEC. That did a lot to help with recruiting. Oh and having a sitting President didn't do anything to hurt our title chances. Just saying. Mike can't say that. Neither could Eddie. Eddie didn't have to deal with all of these nobody teams making the tournament. So the number getting in doesn't really matter.

[ParkerSchnabel]

Proves yet again that FCJ either has a hidden agenda or is clueless about basketball.  Nobody is excit d about Arkansas basketball anymore!  The product is stale and poor.  You want excitement, go back to Eddie days and the Nolan early years.  Well coached basketball with players that can play both ends of the court is exciting...this is not.  Mediocre A&M will run them out of the gym tonight.

What ? The Bud has been sold out several times. Nobody ? You sure about that Clark ?

[HognitiveDissonance]

Had he said Pay me...then one could say for certain what he meant. The word "if" is far from definitive. Especially when he had not made his wishes known prior to that statement not to coach anymore. See, we can play this I know what he was thinking game all day. Doesn't change anything. Nolan is fired, UA got drugged in the court public of opinion. Not to pretend to know what he thinks, but since that has been the going theme....If Nolan had it to do it again he would!

They did pay him, and they did take the job. All within their legal rights, which is why the suit was ridiculous.
My employer can take my job tomorrow too and I can't do a thing about it.
Of course, if he was still winning like early 90s, he could have gotten away with anything. That's how it works.

[HognitiveDissonance]

When did "turds and a-holes" become a racist term? Also, Nolan never, ever called Razorback fans, or anyone else, crackers. This is ridiculous.

Nolan said our fans were great except about 5% who were the "turds and a-holes" he was referring to. He probably included in that 5% the so called fans who called his style of play "ni---r ball" and "rat ball" while KY and Petino played "uptempo". Or maybe he was referring to the supposed "fans" who called in bomb threats to his home. Or maybe it was the "fan" who shot his horse.

Nolan always loved real Hog fans and especially the students. Stop trying to rewrite history.

You're the judge of what's considered offensive?
If it's not a 'racist' term by definition, as in, directed towards a minority, then it must be of no concern.
No, offensive remarks are offensive remarks.

I'm well aware of his attitude towards the fans here and who those remarks were directed to.

I've actually met the man and have no real issues with him. Don't agree with some things he did, but that's fine.

I just thought it was funny the other poster was carrying on about offensive things Broyles had allegedly said while totally forgetting some offensive things his hero had said. The irony. And besides, who cares if it was directed towards a small group of fans. He still said it. Can't unring that bell.

[HognitiveDissonance]

He was right, he was just wasn't able to win by a preponderance of the evidence (some of which was omitted for technical reasons and would have been very supportive of Nolan's claims).

He wasn't right about nothing.

I have pointed out case after case after case where other coaches had problems with the boss man, yet you guys still hang onto this myth that hero Nolan was SO mistreated. Give me a break.

All you can accuse Broyles of being is an equal-opportunity tough boss.

Heck people, even Eddie Sutton got tired of big daddy Frank and 'crawled to Kentucky'. Poor Eddie was obviously so mistreated too, wasn't he? Is there a lawsuit a white dude can file for having a ornery boss? Did he call him the 'white-haired devil' too? (by the way, that 'crawling to KY' remark was directed at one person(Frank), but it offended a lot of people. Eddie had to eat that for a long time. Can't unring that bell)

Some of you people only see things one way and that's all you're going to see. Whatever you want to see.

[HognitiveDissonance]

Nolan was ignored.

I didn't post this because I'm typing on Phone and didn't care to get into it.   The other side of it is no matter how much some whine and deny, Ark athletics was built on football.  Football was built by Frank.  Football is priority. So it is understandable why he would play favorites.  This bothered Nolan given the success he had. Frank still shouldn't have ignored him while coddling Dale.

Nolan was paid well and was not an innocent victim in all of this including the program declining under his watch.

This is a good point, and also nothing new started with Nolan.
Prior to taking the job, Eddie Sutton was skeptical that Frank was serious about building a basketball program. He knew how football was king and had reservations about coming here. But he was persuaded the commitment was there and eventually accepted.
Even today the football coach makes more money but that's the way it is. More revenue, more fans at games.

[HognitiveDissonance]

How did FB and JW disrespect him, by holding him to a standard?
Regardless of how you feel about Nutt, the fact of the matter is football coaches make more than basketball coaches. Even with that NR was paid very well, and he was earning a top salary for basketball coaches at the time.
Sure hope DVH doesn't ever buy into NR's thinking, or he'll realize he's being paid less than Football & Basketball while getting better results.
Fact is they are different sports, with different expectations, & with different pay scales.
Kinda like a brain surgeon and a family practice doctor, both doctors, different pay scales.

Exactly.
If they paid strictly on career accomplishments at the UA, Van Horn would make more money than the football or basketball coach.
But that's simply not how it works. The baseball coach will never make more than the basketball coach, so it's ridiculous.

Likewise, for Nolan to complain about being second-fiddle to football is also ridiculous. Like it or not, football will always be #1.
Even though I will always think there is more potential for hoops, it still doesn't change that football will always be #1.

[HognitiveDissonance]

Did the UA lawyers cross-examine Nolan at this 2002 trial?
Here's a pseudo-story of how it could have gone down...this would have been classic. I could just see Nolan blowing up in a courtroom a la Colonel Jessup

Defense: "So, Mr. Richardson, you are accusing your boss of using derogatory language towards you, is that right?"
Nolan: "Yes"
Defense: "Isn't it true that you have used derogatory language towards people in the past?"
Lawyer: "Objection! Vague"
Judge: "Sustained. Please restate your question."
Defense: "Isn't it true, that you once referred to Razorback fans, the very fans who worshipped you, packed your arena, traveled en masse to far-flung places like Dallas, New Orleans, Memphis, Atlanta, Lexington...you referrered to those same fans as turds and a**holes?"
Nolan: "But I was only referring to..."
Defense: "Just answer the question."
Nolan: (pause)
Judge: "The witness will answer the question that is asked."
Nolan. "You want me to answer that?"
Defense: "Yes."
Nolan: "You want the truth?"
Defense: "I WANT THE TRUTH!!"
Nolan: "YOU CAN'T  HANDLE THE TRUTH!!"
Defense: "DID YOU ORDER THE CODE RED?!!
Nolan: "YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT I DID!!"

[oldbooniehog]

Biggest message in this thread?

Forrest City Joe mad because it is NOT FAIR  to compare Mike Anderson to two Hall of Fame coaches.

FCJ saying Mike simply is not anywhere in the same league as Sutton or Richardson.

Wow. That's one heck of an endorsement.