Champion Spark Plugs and Wires

[GusMcRae]

I put new Champion plugs in my plane in Jan of 2012, shortly after purchasing the plane.  I have roughly 200 hours on these plugs.  I've been noticing it being a little rough on the right hand mag check, but thought I just had some excess build up on a plug as my plane has the tendency to do that if I'm not careful about leaning the mixture while taxi-ing. 
Flew on Wednesday and plane had considerable roughness, ran it up and held the brakes for a couple of mintues to burn it off, cleaned it up some but had noticeable roughness, vibration in flight, performance was weak, and I had pretty full fuel and 2 passengers weighing roughly 400 combined.   
Have trips coming up, so I talked to an A&P, he didn't have time to work me in before the weekend, but he told me how to trouble shoot for a bad plug.  Engine cold of an AM, cowling off, crank up and switch key back to only running on 1 mag (if it's rough on one mag during run-up, use that one)only for about 2 min, kill it, then go lay your hand on each cyl checking for heat.  If one is noticably cooler than the rest just from putting your hand on it, there's your bad plug.  Did that, bingo.
#4 cyl, bottom plug, pulled it and switched it with a top plug from the opposite side (known good plug), allowed some time for the cyls to cool off, checked it in this manner again.  #4 was hot, cyl where we put the suspect plug was noticeably cooler than the rest. 
Replaced the bad plug, all roughness went away on the right hand mag, but then it felt just a little off on the left mag.  So, I decided to let it cool off for a few hours and go back out before replacing the cowling and do the same type of heat check after running for 2 min on the left mag.  Same cylinder was cool. Pulled the top plug, replaced with a good plug, ran it again, and it was hot. 
So, after checking with 2 different A&Ps/pilots, Champion has had some bad batches of plugs and wires out in the marketplace.  One had personally experienced putting on a new set of plug wires and coincidentally 2 wires were bad on the same cylinder.   One of them said new plugs should last 600-800 hours.  They believe it is merely a coincedence that I had 2 bad plugs on the same cylinder, and suggested I keep a couple of spare plugs in the plane and tools to replace if I'm going on a long trip.  And if I have another one go bad in the near future, then just replace them all, with Tempest.
Anyone else had problems or heard of Champion having some bad product.

[GusMcRae]

Found this on the red board.

http://forums.aopa.org/showthread.php?t=88644

[bvillepig]

Found this on the red board.

http://forums.aopa.org/showthread.php?t=88644

Gus
I went through quite a study on spark plugs last year and should have a thread on my findings in here. I have the equip here at my mfg facilityto measure alot of things and switched to Tempest because of what I found with Champion. I am a little pressed for time but will also dig some things up.

[gotyacovered]

we must be on the same schedule... just wrote about my recent plug experience...

[Pistol Pete]

We put new plugs in almost one year ago. Champions, I think. Geez

[bvillepig]

Here is a link to the old thread.

http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=490170.msg7704585#msg7704585

I was having some real problems with Hot Starts and plugs fouling. A year later with my Tempest I can say I have had 0. My mechanic tried to talk me out of switching but after what I read and what my findings were I held my ground.

The Cirrus guys had a bulletin go out warning them of the Champion plugs . 

Tempest are built here in the USA and have a very stringent testing process.

Here is another article

http://www.chanceaviation.com/tempestProdInfo.htm

[bvillepig]

From an earlier thread a year ago

Here is what I found with the Champion Plugs I had pulled. I did decide to go with the Tempest(Autolite) after doing some research on the mfg processes  that the factory uses. I will continue to monitor and am anxious to see if my mag checks improve.  The first one was great engine smooth as silk. I did not lean on the taxi out either.

Listed are the resistance values in thousands of Ohms of the plugs I pulled. Good values would be 1.0 to 3.0.   Any plug over 5 should be pulled according to the article.

T1       T2      T3     T4    T5   T6
15.93 1.838 1.31 1.122 1.57 2.04

B1     B2   B3   B4       B5    B6
1.78 1.54 5.74 25.86 10.5 1.539


Top plug in Cylinder 1 was bad
Bottom in 3 was marginal
Bottom in 4 was bad
Bottom in 5 was bad

This data sample supports what Tempest is saying. Its probably to small a sample to come to a definite conclusion but over time I will continue to monitor.

My spark plugs no matter how much I leaned at taxi were loading up.  I have noticed this getting progressively worst since last annual and am beginning to understand why. The worst plug, Bottom Cyl 4. actually looked good and had just been gapped and cleaned last week.  It is ironic that cyl 4 is the one that the shop thinks might need some work at annual.

It will probably be awhile but I think the next time I need plugs I am going to measure the resistance before we put them in.

[bvillepig]

Here you go. HA HA Promise I am not a dealer. Just trying to help. My AP is very good and fought me on the switch but I know for a fact after measuring brand new plugs out of the box from Champion. 3 were out of tolerance but would show good on the AP test device. 5 more were borderline on the OHM test. Four were good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_8pkttf-2g

[bvillepig]

Very good article

http://www.flyplatinum.com/blog/?p=690

[gotyacovered]

Dads running firewire(?) plugs... Double the money ($1200 for 6 cyl) but are getting ateast double hours. I went champion myself.

[GusMcRae]

A&P and CFI suggested I take spare plugs and tools in case I had trouble. Weather cleared so we did get to fly to ICT. Bad mag check on run up at ICT preparing to take off to come from ICT. Aborted, taxi back to Yingling, pulled cowling, found the bad plug. Made it home and checked mags after landing. Another bad check. Waited until this AM, ran engine and checked for a cool cyl, found another bad plug. Replaced with another good used plug. Leery as he'll to fly to SRR, but good mag checks, so I went ahead. Checked mags on ground after landing and they were good. I did order a new set of Tempest this AM. Still wondering if I've got something going on with mags.

[gotyacovered]

A&P and CFI suggested I take spare plugs and tools in case I had trouble. Weather cleared so we did get to fly to ICT. Bad mag check on run up at ICT preparing to take off to come from ICT. Aborted, taxi back to Yingling, pulled cowling, found the bad plug. Made it home and checked mags after landing. Another bad check. Waited until this AM, ran engine and checked for a cool cyl, found another bad plug. Replaced with another good used plug. Leery as he'll to fly to SRR, but good mag checks, so I went ahead. Checked mags on ground after landing and they were good. I did order a new set of Tempest this AM. Still wondering if I've got something going on with mags.

I kinda doubt it... Those plus have limited life  just going out...

(Consider the source)

[GusMcRae]

I would really like to get back to home base without having to pull the cowling off again.  And I would really like to be hitting on 12 plugs flying out of SRR on Friday as it is 6800'. All this plug trouble is not good on my mags.
Golf going well. There are 21 of us on this trip and I shot the low net score at Rainmaker yesterday. Weather has been great and forecasted to continue through the week.
I'm a professional golfer and gambler this week. Wife and I both were furloughed yesterday. Effing Obama holding congress hostage.

[bvillepig]

Gus I think you will notice a difference with the Tempest . I did. No more aggressive leaning to keep plugs from fouling. Easy hot starts (knock on wood)

I had Champion plugs in my Toga for the first 7 years and did not run into problems till last year. However I always had to aggressively lean to keep them from fouling .  Good luck on your golf game.

[gotyacovered]

since it seems gus and i are on the same schedule... what is the cost diff between the two?

[bvillepig]

Tempest are a little less expensive and made in USA .

Pretty sure Champions issues coincide with the mfg move to China.

[GusMcRae]

Well, it's looking like I have a ring broken or some other problem in the #4 cylinder. Will let y'all know when we get to the bottom of it. Plugs keep fowling out in the same cylinder, borescoped and oil is visible on top of the piston. Pulling #4 jug to see what's going on. A&P guessing the scraper ring was installed upside down. Exhaust collector is bad on left side just like it was on right side at 2012 annual. Already seeing a couple of other problems that need addressing as we'll. C-182 may be grounded for a while. Hello C-150, needs flying anyway.

[GusMcRae]

Got the #4 jug off. Nothing obvious like a broken ring. A&P checked it out, he put the rings back in the cyl and checked the gap in the rings. Oil ring was at max allowable. All other rings were within the range of where they should be.  Further inspection of the oil ring revealed that the small corkscrew looking band that lies inside a groove on the back side of the oil ring had one 3/4" section that didn't quite get tucked into the groove. Sent the jug and piston to Gipson in El Reno, Ok for exchange. Ordered new collector for left side as well.
Now hoping that whoever did the last overhaul didn't screw up any others.
I am going back with tempest plugs too, even though the champions are probably fine.

[GusMcRae]

Cyl and piston came in Monday. With assistance from 2 A&P's, we got the rings on the piston, piston into the cyl, and cyl back on and properly torqued down yesterday. That is all quite the jigsaw puzzle. Exhaust collector came in yesterday so will work on getting intake and exhaust mainifolds back on next, in my spare time. May be back in business by the weekend.

I should really re-name this thread.

[GusMcRae]

Cyl and piston came in Monday. With assistance from 2 A&P's, we got the rings on the piston, piston into the cyl, and cyl back on and properly torqued down yesterday. That is all quite the jigsaw puzzle. Exhaust collector came in yesterday so will work on getting intake and exhaust mainifolds back on next, in my spare time. May be back in business by the weekend.

I should really re-name this thread.

Ok, I'm attempting to change the name of this thread. 
I am not back in business yet. 
One stubborn broken off exhaust stud on the left forward cylinder (#2 I think) would not give it up upon all of my attempts.  Finally gave up and pulled the cylinder off and sent it off today for it to be extracted.  Another week down. 

By the way, what's happened to this forum? 
It's been dead for weeks.
Where's Gotya?
Hope everyone is too busy flying to check in.

[Pistol Pete]

Ok, I'm attempting to change the name of this thread. 
I am not back in business yet. 
One stubborn broken off exhaust stud on the left forward cylinder (#2 I think) would not give it up upon all of my attempts.  Finally gave up and pulled the cylinder off and sent it off today for it to be extracted.  Another week down. 

By the way, what's happened to this forum? 
It's been dead for weeks.
Where's Gotya?
Hope everyone is too busy flying to check in.

I'm glad you're getting your bird going... Mine is in for it's annual. Putting some torque link bushings on it, one leaking exhaust gasket, replacing aluminum starter and charging wires for copper, a new noise filter, some Lord mounts for the cowling, and just typical annual stuff.
I've noticed the forum being dead as well... I'm hoping to fly to the Ole Miss game. I hope the weather permits it!

[GusMcRae]

Well, we've gotten it all back together, but apparently some intake hoses are not getting a good seal or something.  Engine is popping at about 1000-1200 RPM.  Something is not right.  We will figure it out eventually. 

Also, corrrection, it is the #6 cyl (left side, forward jug)  that had the broken exhaust stud.

[gotyacovered]

Well, we've gotten it all back together, but apparently some intake hoses are not getting a good seal or something.  Engine is popping at about 1000-1200 RPM.  Something is not right.  We will figure it out eventually. 

Also, corrrection, it is the #6 cyl (left side, forward jug)  that had the broken exhaust stud.

i got to replace my exhaust system and two broken studs annual before last. sucks.