Avionics/Electrical Questions

[MDH]

Let me preface this by saying I am not trying to drum up business for my shop, we have way more than we can handle at this point and have been turning some people away.  Also I am in no way interested in side work, I do 50ish hours a week of Avionics work and I don't want to spend volumes of my free time doing avionics work.

I've been doing Avionics for 21 years now on everything from Van's RV's to Gulfstream 550's.  I've got a fairly broad spectrum of knowledge, though a master of none of it- I don't think you ever can be.  It can be an intellectually humbling line of work.

There are times we get people come in for service work and it ends up being something simple that with a bit of guided advice they could have figured out on their own, which would have saved them money (Switchology, etc.).

So if you have any Avionics/Electrical questions, this is the thread for it rather than me jumping in and hijacking other threads.  It doesn't necessarily have to be about a problem, if you are just curious about something I'll do my best to explain.  I have no intention of telling someone I only know on Hogville to do any kind of work that could in any way affect the safety of their aircraft.  At these points I would say see a mechanic or avionics shop.

There are times when I get so busy I'm not around these boards for a week or more so I may not be prompt on my replies.  I generally do check in every day or two, though.

[GusMcRae]

"Sounds like the solenoid isn't engaging.  The simplest check would be to pull the inspection panel to gain access to the servo and unplug and replug the connector, and clean the contacts with electrical contact cleaner.  If you don't feel comfortable doing it you could get a local mechanic to do it, it's about a 15 minute job tops.  The access panel is on the aft portion of the left wing somewhere around the outboard end of the flaps.  This probably won't be the problem but it is a quick check that could save you a trip to the shop."

I'll move this over here to this thread.

If I can hear the servo kick in (master and avionics master switches on, plane not started, sitting in the hangar, sound coming from the left wing where the servo is located) when I roll the heading bug off of top center, and hear it go silent when I roll the heading bug back to the top, that sounds to me like the servo is working like it should,,,, but if the roll pin is out, it's just not turning the worm gear,,,, thus not moving the yoke/ailrons,,,, just like the first time it acted before having it fixed. 

I'm not following your thinking that the solenoid is not engaging.  If that were the problem, would I even be able to hear the servo kick in?

[gotyacovered]

i like this thread... great idea. in fact i would like to know where you are out of... and if you run across any good equipment i am shopping!!!

and for the record, in about two weeks i am opening an aviation division in my office, so i will be talking shop

(i am in insurance)

here is a simple one for ya... how easy is it to get a new push to talk switch? pretty simple i assume?

[MDH]

I'm not following your thinking that the solenoid is not engaging.  If that were the problem, would I even be able to hear the servo kick in?

There are two different electrical commands that drive the servo.  One is for the servo motor, which is obviously working because you hear the motor running when the heading bug is off the lubber line. 
The second is the servo solenoid.  This solenoid engages the roll motor to the clutch plate.  The solenoid should engage when the autopilot is engaged, that would be the clunk I was talking about listening for in the left wing.  The solenoid should disengage when you depress the CWS switch and reengage when you release it, so you can use that also to see if you are hearing it when the autopilot is engaged.  That's why I said what I did, because you said you weren't getting a clunk.

If the solenoid isn't engaged then the motor would still run, it just wouldn't be transferring it's force to the clutch plate.

What flavor of STEC is this autopilot?

EDIT: I think I just realized what you were talking about when you said worm gear- you are talking about the thing that the cable wraps around.  We call that a capstan, though I guess it is a worm gear of sorts, I just never thought about it that way.  I've always thought that the capstan was one solid milled piece due to how STEC does their clutch (which is essentially the same as Century)- I'll have to look at it closer the next time I have one in hand, which will be very soon- we're putting a System 20 or 30 in a 172 or 182 (hell I forget, way too much going on) to start in the next couple of weeks.
If it is the case that the roll pin came out and they just reinstalled it or a new one I'd strongly recommended that you have the servo yanked and sent to STEC for repair, because something has obviously worn in there.  I don't believe STEC does servo exchanges any longer.  Either way it's not going to be cheap, but it will be cheaper in the long run.

here is a simple one for ya... how easy is it to get a new push to talk switch? pretty simple i assume?

I'm in Fort Smith.

If you already have an existing PTT and just need it replaced not a big deal, 45 minutes to an hour and a half depending.  Some can be a pain due to wire length.

If you want a new PTT installed, it varies.  If the yokes are already drilled, 1.5 - 2.5 hours depending on the plane.  If the yokes aren't drilled it really depends heavily on the plane- some yokes can't be drilled and those that can tend to be a real pain to do: 6-8 hours if the yokes can be drilled.  The option if the yokes can't be drilled or you don't want to spend the money drilling them is to use one of the strap on PTT's that have a strap that velcros around the yoke. Hourish to install, again depending on the aircraft.

But yeah it's simple, 2 wires that are connected to the existing mic jack.  The only extremely tricky thing comes into play if you are going to drill yokes, some can be crazy difficult to do.

[gotyacovered]

MDH - mine is not drilled... (I dont think) But is mounted to the yoke... By a screw. I need a new switch... We will call it maintnece. It feels like its going to go out any time. Ill snap a pic of the setup and we will go from there.

[GusMcRae]

There are two different electrical commands that drive the servo.  One is for the servo motor, which is obviously working because you hear the motor running when the heading bug is off the lubber line. 
The second is the servo solenoid.  This solenoid engages the roll motor to the clutch plate.  The solenoid should engage when the autopilot is engaged, that would be the clunk I was talking about listening for in the left wing.  The solenoid should disengage when you depress the CWS switch and reengage when you release it, so you can use that also to see if you are hearing it when the autopilot is engaged.  That's why I said what I did, because you said you weren't getting a clunk.

If the solenoid isn't engaged then the motor would still run, it just wouldn't be transferring it's force to the clutch plate.

What flavor of STEC is this autopilot?

Ok, I'm with you know.  I'll test it again and listen for the clunk.
STEC-2, no altitude hold.  Is that what you're asking?

[MDH]

Ok, I'm with you know.  I'll test it again and listen for the clunk.
STEC-2, no altitude hold.  Is that what you're asking?

Yeah, STEC 20 you mean?

I edited the above post concerning your problem by the way.

[MDH]

MDH - mine is not drilled... (I dont think) But is mounted to the yoke... By a screw. I need a new switch... We will call it maintnece. It feels like its going to go out any time. Ill snap a pic of the setup and we will go from there.

No need for a pic, you have a Cherokee Six, right?  What year?

[gotyacovered]

No need for a pic, you have a Cherokee Six, right?  What year?

Nawp. 182.

[GusMcRae]

Yeah, STEC 20 you mean?

I edited the above post concerning your problem by the way.

Yes, STEC 20.  Worm gear is what I heard the shop call it, and it is the part you described. If it does have to be sent off, is the plane grounded until servo is repaired and reinstalled?

[MDH]

Yes, STEC 20.  Worm gear is what I heard the shop call it, and it is the part you described. If it does have to be sent off, is the plane grounded until servo is repaired and reinstalled?

Negative.  The autopilot just won't be functional obviously.  The cable that wraps around the capstan is called a bridle cable and the other ends of it are attached to the aileron control cable (to be accurate on a 182 one end is actually bolted to a bellcrank, but we don't need to get that technical).  So when you remove the servo the bridle cable is removed also leaving the aircraft basically just like a servo had never been installed.  This is true for almost all servos except electric trim servos.  There are exceptions to this, Cirrus comes to mind.

[MDH]

Nawp. 182.

No biggie either way.  Replacing it is a fairly simple deal for someone who has done a good bit of electronic soldering in the past, if you haven't don't even think about trying it- there's a good chance you could end up with a stuck PTT in which case when you turn it on to test it everyone will hear you cussing about why you decided this would be a good DIY project

Which leads me to a good story.  The guy I work with here in FSM learned to fly many years ago, of course he's been doing avionics since being in the Navy in the 70's so he was quite familiar with radios before ever learning how to fly.  On his first solo he took off and then noticed that the tower wasn't talking to him.  He knew he had a problem and was trying to troubleshoot it, cussing like a sailor the whole time.  Well he had a stuck PTT- the radios in the aircraft were old KX-170Bs which had no TX light so he had no way of knowing.  He got light signals, landed and then got a call from the tower letting him know to watch his language when he has a radio problem.

[gotyacovered]

had an issue pop up this weekend MDH, proly too hard to diagnose over the interwebz, but lets see..

VOR number 2 wasnt indicating prior to my annual in may, i had it INOP - was planning to replace with one that had GS, but after the annual it mysteriously started working... so i have been just using it. yesterday en route it stop indicating. needle was dead (centered). i could ident and hear the audio. when i would switch it from off to audio the needle would twitch, then center and was not indicating anything if i changed the OBS. VOR #1 ops normal. any thoughts? bad connection somewhere?

[MDH]

What flavor of Nav Radio is it?

This sounds like an indicator problem.  If you have good Nav audio the receiver is working.  There could be a problem with the converter, but that could be in the indicator, a remote box or in the radio itself.

[gotyacovered]

What flavor of Nav Radio is it?

This sounds like an indicator problem.  If you have good Nav audio the receiver is working.  There could be a problem with the converter, but that could be in the indicator, a remote box or in the radio itself.

Kx-175b(?)

The old school one with the dials...

Looking for a 155 if you run across one (or two) BTW

[MDH]

With the KX-175B you are probably looking at a problem with a converter in your indicator- there are a couple of different ones you could have.  You could still have a remote converter, but it is less likely.

Best thing to do here is just to look under the panel with a flashlight and make sure that the indicator is plugged in.  Considering you just came out of annual it is possible that the connector got bumped.  Anything other than that would be a trip to the shop.

If you are going to send the indicator out to be looked at you should probably have the shop look at the KX-175B along with it.  It is possible the composite signal (which feeds the converter) is to low out of the KX-175B, though that is a bit rarer than a converter problem, especially if you have the indicator I think you do.

Is your plane 28V or 14V (I'm assuming it's 14, but you know what they say about that)?  We come across a lot more 28V 155's, but the 14V versions are harder to put your hands on- kinda like gold.  We might even be sitting on a 28V 155 right now.  I fixed one on the bench a while back, but I dunno if we sold it yet or not.  I'll check.

[gotyacovered]

With the KX-175B you are probably looking at a problem with a converter in your indicator- there are a couple of different ones you could have.  You could still have a remote converter, but it is less likely.

Best thing to do here is just to look under the panel with a flashlight and make sure that the indicator is plugged in.  Considering you just came out of annual it is possible that the connector got bumped.  Anything other than that would be a trip to the shop.

If you are going to send the indicator out to be looked at you should probably have the shop look at the KX-175B along with it.  It is possible the composite signal (which feeds the converter) is to low out of the KX-175B, though that is a bit rarer than a converter problem, especially if you have the indicator I think you do.

Is your plane 28V or 14V (I'm assuming it's 14, but you know what they say about that)?  We come across a lot more 28V 155's, but the 14V versions are harder to put your hands on- kinda like gold.  We might even be sitting on a 28V 155 right now.  I fixed one on the bench a while back, but I dunno if we sold it yet or not.  I'll check.

does the converter feed both VOR's? i didnt mention that the other is no squawk - not sure if that matters. also... is there two antennas for each VOR?

one little thing... it WAS NOT working prior to annual. after annual, it WAS working, not sure that really matters. it was INOP for the first 6 months i owned it, right out of annual it was working fine.

14v...

i ran a buddy down to magnolia last night to drop off his baron for some mx and noted when i selected the ident/voice and adjusted the volume it seemed to get static and even go intermittent. its got me worried. not what i need when heading into IR training. at this point i am spending more money on flying than upgrades and want to keep it that way until i get my IR and can upgrade right, or get a new plane.

[MDH]

does the converter feed both VOR's? i didnt mention that the other is no squawk - not sure if that matters. also... is there two antennas for each VOR?

No there is one converter per NAV radio.  There is only one nav antenna and the signal is split to both nav radios through a diplexer- just a simple impedance matching circuit in box.

one little thing... it WAS NOT working prior to annual. after annual, it WAS working, not sure that really matters. it was INOP for the first 6 months i owned it, right out of annual it was working fine.

14v...

i ran a buddy down to magnolia last night to drop off his baron for some mx and noted when i selected the ident/voice and adjusted the volume it seemed to get static and even go intermittent. its got me worried. not what i need when heading into IR training. at this point i am spending more money on flying than upgrades and want to keep it that way until i get my IR and can upgrade right, or get a new plane.

Yeah it could be a receiver problem.  The best thing would probably be to just put the radio and indicator on the bench for a quick check- emphasize not to troubleshoot, just does it work on the bench or not.  Then you would know for sure whether the problem is aircraft side or in the equipment.  This would be an hour or less depending if they were a problem getting out of/back into the aircraft.  $60-$90 is what you should expect. 

If it is equipment then, imo, it's not worth dumping a ton of money into that radio or indicator.  If you can get it fixed for under $300 I'd say go for it, if not I'd look into an SL-30, KX-155 or buying a replacement unit if you can find one.  Those radios are getting so old that if you do spend money fixing them there is no guarantee that something else isn't going to fail one month down the road and it might be something where you can't get parts any more. 

Don't get me wrong they were great radios- think about it this way: Do you know any people that have a functional FM radio or TV as old as that KX-175B?

[gotyacovered]

No there is one converter per NAV radio.  There is only one nav antenna and the signal is split to both nav radios through a diplexer- just a simple impedance matching circuit in box.

Yeah it could be a receiver problem.  The best thing would probably be to just put the radio and indicator on the bench for a quick check- emphasize not to troubleshoot, just does it work on the bench or not.  Then you would know for sure whether the problem is aircraft side or in the equipment.  This would be an hour or less depending if they were a problem getting out of/back into the aircraft.  $60-$90 is what you should expect. 

If it is equipment then, imo, it's not worth dumping a ton of money into that radio or indicator.  If you can get it fixed for under $300 I'd say go for it, if not I'd look into an SL-30, KX-155 or buying a replacement unit if you can find one.  Those radios are getting so old that if you do spend money fixing them there is no guarantee that something else isn't going to fail one month down the road and it might be something where you can't get parts any more. 

Don't get me wrong they were great radios- think about it this way: Do you know any people that have a functional FM radio or TV as old as that KX-175B?

lol... exactly.

my gut tells me its a connection somewhere. i am going to follow your initial advice (flashlight behind the panel) and go from there. thanks for your time, if it comes down to it, i will come to your shop. be a good excuse to get up that way for a bball game or something. 

[MDH]

lol... exactly.

my gut tells me its a connection somewhere. i am going to follow your initial advice (flashlight behind the panel) and go from there. thanks for your time, if it comes down to it, i will come to your shop. be a good excuse to get up that way for a bball game or something. 

If you decide to bring it in, callahead and talk to Al, he schedules.  4796483001.

[gotyacovered]

If you decide to bring it in, callahead and talk to Al, he schedules.  4796483001.

will do.

[gotyacovered]

MDH... what is the diff between a kx-155 and a kx-165?

[MDH]

KX-155 has to be paired with an indicator with a nav converter built into it (like a KI-208 or 209).
The KX-165 has a nav converter inside it and was designed to go with an HSI, though you can use it with a KI-208/209 or similar.

That is the big difference.  The 165 has a feature where you can pull the nav tuning knob and it will display the radial you are on from the tuned VOR.

[rnclittlerock]

A bit more general and others' opinions are welcome too.

In the market for my first plane, when looking used there seem to be two choices...my dad and I are debating this at the moment...

A) buy something with instrument upgrades but needing engine soon
B) buy something with low time engine but old instruments and do instruments yourself

Which makes more sense when you're talking 235 to 300 HP engines, such as with something like a Cherokee 6 or 182?

[MDH]

A bit more general and others' opinions are welcome too.

In the market for my first plane, when looking used there seem to be two choices...my dad and I are debating this at the moment...

A) buy something with instrument upgrades but needing engine soon
B) buy something with low time engine but old instruments and do instruments yourself

Which makes more sense when you're talking 235 to 300 HP engines, such as with something like a Cherokee 6 or 182?

Wow that's a hard call.  If you go hog wild, you can easily spend more than a factory reman doing Avionics upgrades.  Just depends on what you want in avionics.

Generally I would go with what already had the avionics upgrades.  The engine is going to be a relatively fixed price if you go with a factory reman or factory new.  The kicker is that a run out engine affects the price of an aircraft much more than being upgraded avionics-wise does.

It really comes down to the cost of what you want avionics-wise vs. the cost of overhaul/FR/FN.

That said, if you find one with a mid time engine and the avionics you want then that is probably the buy to make.

[GusMcRae]

Generally I would go with what already had the avionics upgrades.  The engine is going to be a relatively fixed price if you go with a factory reman or factory new.  The kicker is that a run out engine affects the price of an aircraft much more than being upgraded avionics-wise does.

That said, if you find one with a mid time engine and the avionics you want then that is probably the buy to make.

From the shopping around I've done, I agree with this.  Also been advised from pilots much more knowledgeable than me of this same philosophy. 

[gotyacovered]

rnclittlerock - i echo MDH in his last statement... why choose between A or B? be selective in your choice, find what you want. the good planes are selling fast and the others sit. i have a friend who is trying to acquire a baron and they have lost out on two deals b/c they didn't move fast enough - the good ones get snatched up. there is a lot of junk out there.

to answer your original question, IMO, i would go with upgraded avionics and a high time engine. if you choose a engine that is 1800 hours into a 2000 TBO, you may get another 100 hours of of it or another 500-600. there are other options as well... you could top it if you have to.

the other reason for me choosing the high time engine is that it will have a more stable and reliable affect on the price, should you try to sell it after putting a new one in.

to give you a little insight on the direction i went: i have a high TT (~2400) ... 1434SMOH, and 515 STOH. i wouldn't have to big of a problem buying my plane from the market if it had a nice avionics stack (unfortunately it doesn't). seeing this type of time(s) reeks of having previous low compressions b/c of worn cylinders/pistons and the owner wanting to save money by chroming the cylinders. and on top of that, possibly, it wasnt a very good overhaul (short time between OH and TOH). i am getting oil samples with every oil change and is one number that is consistently high - not at an alarming rate, though and declining is chrome. the valve guides are not chrome so the high %'s are coming from the piston rings and cylinders, they are wearing at a faster rate than normal. these figures drop with each oil change so i have attributed this to the airplane just not being flown, as we all know that is the worst thing for an engine. the positives on my engine to take away are the compressions are all still high (the lowest is on #3 and it is 68); they range from there to 72 or 74. cant remember for sure and a lot of people will run them until compression hit the 50's. the fact i knew the previous owner (and my current partner) very well helped also as he gave me free reign of the logs and the purchase price was reasonable.

with all of that info on the front end of my purchase, i decided to buy. right or wrong? time will tell.

i will tell you this, as i search for my next airplane i have prioritized it like this:

1. avionics
2. regularly flown - no sitting.
3. mid-low time engine
4. auto pilot
5. low airframe time
6. good interior
7. paint

i will not buy an airplane that doesn't meet my expectations from any of those aspects. will i pay more in purchase price? probably. will it pay off in the long run - hope so.

[rnclittlerock]

Thanks, that echoes what I've been arguing after putting a pencil to it.  I'm looking at asking prices and two comparable planes, say one with all original 30 year old instruments and another with 530 waas, 430 backup coupled to a nice AP only commands about a 10k to 12k premium over the comparable plane without.  And I see no way to get that stuff yourself for that price.

Engine newness on the other hand seems to have a set value regardless of the rest.

The reason for picking one or the other is bargain shopping of course.  I'm of the opinion that more than one guy has blown his wad on leather seats and garmin goodies only to wind up approaching an overhaul with no hope of raising the money for the engine.  When I get the house I'm working on sold I'll be able to do that so that seems like a logical way to shop for a good deal.

[fdx flyer]

rnc - you're definitely on the right track.  Sometimes I wish I was shopping again.  Here's my story.  Maybe you can glean something from it.

I bought my plane two and a half years ago.  I had a self (and wife) imposed budget of $5k over what I sold my first plane (a Maule) for.  That limited me to about $53k.  I knew I wanted a Bonanza, but that number put me in a bit of a crunch.  I could get an older model (pre-57) with more avionics, or a later model without much.  The pre 1957 Bonanzas have E series Continentals and usually electric props.  Hard to get either serviced.  They also had a complicated fuel system and less baggage.  It is financially ridiculous to upgrade from the E series to the newer IO-470s (520s, etc) in an old Bonanza.  There's an STC, but it involves changes in the nose structure and it's wayyy expensive.  There's no way to upgrade the fuel system to the modern two tank system.  Soooo, that led me to the 61's and newer - modern engine, simple fuel system, long 3rd window and more baggage.  These were the "must haves" to me - things that were basically impossible to upgrade later. 

I bought a plane with excellent logs and maintenance history.  It has very nice paint and a slightly above average interior.  But.. the engine had almost 1200 hrs on a 1500 TBO, and it has the old "piano key" style Bonanza panel with no IFR GPS and only a wing leveler for an autopilot.  I figured I could probably get another 5 years out of the engine, and upgrade the panel later - when I become a rich airline captain - Ha!  Well, within a few months a nagging little oil leak turned out to be a tiny crack in the crankcase - overhaul time! 

Now I have a nice Bonanza with a fresh overhaul, but I'm in it for over $70k.  That certainly would've bought a newer model with more goodies.  But guess what, I love my Bonanza.  Crap happens.  And now I'm about to spend even more money upgrading the panel this winter.  I'll have over $80k in a plane that I might be able to get $65k out of (maybe a little more).  If I wasn't able to do lots of work on it myself, it'd be even worse.  At this point, I've decided it's a keeper, so I'm making it mine.  It's a little frustrating when I look at tradeaplane and see later models with more equipment for that price though. 

All that said...  Keep doing your research.  Really learn the year models and associated upgrades of the planes you're most interested in.  I suggest joining type clubs and internet forums.  When you narrow it down, get a model specific expert mechanic to help you with a good, thorough pre-buy inspection.  And even after all that, realize that crap can still happen.  There's nothing like sitting in the hangar, having a cold beer, and looking at YOUR airplane though. 

[MDH]

All that said...  Keep doing your research.  Really learn the year models and associated upgrades of the planes you're most interested in.  I suggest joining type clubs and internet forums.  When you narrow it down, get a model specific expert mechanic to help you with a good, thorough pre-buy inspection.  And even after all that, realize that crap can still happen.  There's nothing like sitting in the hangar, having a cold beer, and looking at YOUR airplane though. 

Now the kobeer I can get behind!

And good advice all around.

[rnclittlerock]

rnc - you're definitely on the right track.  Sometimes I wish I was shopping again.  Here's my story.  Maybe you can glean something from it.

I bought my plane two and a half years ago.  I had a self (and wife) imposed budget of $5k over what I sold my first plane (a Maule) for.  That limited me to about $53k.  I knew I wanted a Bonanza, but that number put me in a bit of a crunch.  I could get an older model (pre-57) with more avionics, or a later model without much.  The pre 1957 Bonanzas have E series Continentals and usually electric props.  Hard to get either serviced.  They also had a complicated fuel system and less baggage.  It is financially ridiculous to upgrade from the E series to the newer IO-470s (520s, etc) in an old Bonanza.  There's an STC, but it involves changes in the nose structure and it's wayyy expensive.  There's no way to upgrade the fuel system to the modern two tank system.  Soooo, that led me to the 61's and newer - modern engine, simple fuel system, long 3rd window and more baggage.  These were the "must haves" to me - things that were basically impossible to upgrade later. 

I bought a plane with excellent logs and maintenance history.  It has very nice paint and a slightly above average interior.  But.. the engine had almost 1200 hrs on a 1500 TBO, and it has the old "piano key" style Bonanza panel with no IFR GPS and only a wing leveler for an autopilot.  I figured I could probably get another 5 years out of the engine, and upgrade the panel later - when I become a rich airline captain - Ha!  Well, within a few months a nagging little oil leak turned out to be a tiny crack in the crankcase - overhaul time! 

Now I have a nice Bonanza with a fresh overhaul, but I'm in it for over $70k.  That certainly would've bought a newer model with more goodies.  But guess what, I love my Bonanza.  Crap happens.  And now I'm about to spend even more money upgrading the panel this winter.  I'll have over $80k in a plane that I might be able to get $65k out of (maybe a little more).  If I wasn't able to do lots of work on it myself, it'd be even worse.  At this point, I've decided it's a keeper, so I'm making it mine.  It's a little frustrating when I look at tradeaplane and see later models with more equipment for that price though. 

All that said...  Keep doing your research.  Really learn the year models and associated upgrades of the planes you're most interested in.  I suggest joining type clubs and internet forums.  When you narrow it down, get a model specific expert mechanic to help you with a good, thorough pre-buy inspection.  And even after all that, realize that crap can still happen.  There's nothing like sitting in the hangar, having a cold beer, and looking at YOUR airplane though.

Thanks, and yeah I think the days of assuming planes appreciate are over.  Kinda like houses, people assume they will but even so they're bad investments.  No one is getting rich by owning airplanes.  Being in the hole 'some' is fine, just trying to avoid being in the hole a lot.

[fdx flyer]

Thanks, and yeah I think the days of assuming planes appreciate are over.  Kinda like houses, people assume they will but even so they're bad investments.  No one is getting rich by owning airplanes.  Being in the hole 'some' is fine, just trying to avoid being in the hole a lot.

Exactly. 

[GusMcRae]

MDH, my 182 is currently equipped with generator, and as of yesterday, a generator that no longer serves its purpose (see "almost crapping your pants moments" thread). 
Av shop advised me to change it over to an alternator, new one off of aircraft spruce was $488, but he mentioned needing a converter kit or something.  We didn't have time to discuss b/c we were needing to get another 45 min flight home before dark.
What all is he talking about?  Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

[GusMcRae]

Scratch that. Upon further research, and not just taking what everyone tells me as the gospel, turns out my plane does have an alternator. 
Now I'm getting mixed reviews in how to handle this replacement..... 

[gotyacovered]

Scratch that. Upon further research, and not just taking what everyone tells me as the gospel, turns out my plane does have an alternator. 
Now I'm getting mixed reviews in how to handle this replacement..... 

here is a questions, and a stupid one at that.

how do you tell what antennae are for what?

i have having some intermittent nav/comm problems on #2 (for both) and think its a bad connection somewhere...

[rnclittlerock]

Nav antennas are on the tail, comm antennas are nearest to the cockpit.

[gotyacovered]

Nav antennas are on the tail, comm antennas are nearest to the cockpit.

mine are on the top and the bottom. i would have to say equal distance from the cockpit. two antennas that look exactly alike, one is on the top hear the boomerang and the other is on the fuselage back towards the tail, next to my ELT antennae.

if we weren't so depressed at McKinney i would have showed them to you earlier!

i have a def problem though. my number 2 nav/comm are weaker than the number 1 and the VOR sometimes will not indicate.

[rnclittlerock]

From my recollection the VOR antennas tend to be furthest from the engine to avoid interference.  Hence most planes having them tail mounted.

Yeah sucks about the baron, I bet the owner is gonna be hot.

For everyone else, gotya flew his buddy down here to DFW to pick up a baron the guy's employer bought and someone during the prebuy dented the nose, problem being it has nose mounted radar.  The shop doing the repair hasn't finished yet so they were gonna fit the nose from their old baron to get it home at least but their old baron's nose cowl doesn't fit over the radar assembly.  So they're going on a month and a half not having a plane they've paid for already, as I understand it.

[gotyacovered]

For everyone else, gotya flew his buddy down here to DFW to pick up a baron the guy's employer bought and someone during the prebuy dented the nose, problem being it has nose mounted radar.  The shop doing the repair hasn't finished yet so they were gonna fit the nose from their old baron to get it home at least but their old baron's nose cowl doesn't fit over the radar assembly.  So they're going on a month and a half not having a plane they've paid for already, as I understand it.

headed your way again Friday morning... hopefully this time we will come back with two airplanes!!!

[rnclittlerock]

After much shopping for better deals I wound up with a hangar at TKI after all.

The patio hangars at F46 were too narrow, woulda been sticking out of one side.

50 cent discount to tenants, puts their fuel and other amenities at 6 bucks a gallon, not too bad for DFW I guess, although if I were close to downtown I think KRBD is a bit cheaper.

I'm headed out tomorrow to NOLA, will miss ya this time unfortunately.  Hit me up sometime in the summer if ya wanna go fish offshore!

[gotyacovered]

After much shopping for better deals I wound up with a hangar at TKI after all.

The patio hangars at F46 were too narrow, woulda been sticking out of one side.

50 cent discount to tenants, puts their fuel and other amenities at 6 bucks a gallon, not too bad for DFW I guess, although if I were close to downtown I think KRBD is a bit cheaper.

I'm headed out tomorrow to NOLA, will miss ya this time unfortunately. 

Ah. Welp, that sucks. Congrats on the hangar... Don't forget to swing by M18 if your passing thru... And $6/gal is fine... There are lots of cheaper spots around!

You flying?

[rnclittlerock]

Will do.

Yep, KHUM, just up the road from my Dad's camp.  Probably be there a week or so, gonna talk to the shop down there about adding ADS-B, don't need traffic so much around LIT, but DFW bravo is another story...plus I have no weather display option currently.

Looks like a fairly priced upgrade.  One new box for 4k, xponder upgrade for 1200, then I see everything a controller sees on my 530 plus free weather.

[GusMcRae]

After much shopping for better deals I wound up with a hangar at TKI after all.

The patio hangars at F46 were too narrow, woulda been sticking out of one side.

50 cent discount to tenants, puts their fuel and other amenities at 6 bucks a gallon, not too bad for DFW I guess, although if I were close to downtown I think KRBD is a bit cheaper.

I'm headed out tomorrow to NOLA, will miss ya this time unfortunately.  Hit me up sometime in the summer if ya wanna go fish offshore!

TKI is only 15 min or so from KSWI, 100LL is $4.30.  I see guys from way further than that filling up there. I fly there pretty regular.

[rnclittlerock]

Yep, I'm in the process of moving to Allen, already in a house there, just gonna be back and forth till my house in LR is sold.

F46 isn't bad either, 5 dollars full service and not as out of the way for my trips.  There's also a self service pump at Aero Country, private owned but public use, also in McKinney.  T31 I think it is.

Word round the campfire is Sherman wants to close that airport, heard some good ole boys got themselves put on a board of directors for the airport up there and were giving themselves fuel at/below cost, and the city huffed, puffed, and fired them all.  Unfortunately it may go away in the next few years.  People are saying no way the city puts up the money next time the runways need resurfaced.

If ya ever stop by the area for a meal lemme know.

[GusMcRae]

Yep, I'm in the process of moving to Allen, already in a house there, just gonna be back and forth till my house in LR is sold.

F46 isn't bad either, 5 dollars full service and not as out of the way for my trips.  There's also a self service pump at Aero Country, private owned but public use, also in McKinney.  T31 I think it is.

Word round the campfire is Sherman wants to close that airport, heard some good ole boys got themselves put on a board of directors for the airport up there and were giving themselves fuel at/below cost, and the city huffed, puffed, and fired them all.  Unfortunately it may go away in the next few years.  People are saying no way the city puts up the money next time the runways need resurfaced.

If ya ever stop by the area for a meal lemme know.

I've been to T31 once.  Took a pilot friend of mine there to pick up Cherokee 140 he purchased a year ago or so.  Fairly tight. Taxied down through a neighborhood to get to his plane. 
Never landed at TKI or F46. 

That's a shame if that's true about KSWI's days possibly being numbered.  They stay busy with the fuel traffic, but there's seldom anyone in the terminal building.  MX shop seems to always have several planes they're working on.

Sounds good, maybe we can get together sometime.

[rnclittlerock]

http://heralddemocrat.com/sections/news/local/sherman-municipal-airport-board-disbanded-because-inactivity.html

http://heralddemocrat.com/sections/news/local/future-sherman-municipal-airport-still-air.html

[gotyacovered]

MDH - i ran a friend to get some work done on his autopilot and while we were waiting i was looking around the shop and poked my head into a nice saratoga that was getting a 750 installed... they were replacing a 530W that was only installed 18-24 months ago-new. a conversation sparked up with the shop owner and he said that he was going to buy the 530W from the owner and try to sell it. got my wheels turning and he ended up looking in my plane and quoted me the following:

move kx-175b com/nav #1 and drop down in #2 nav/com slot, as well as drop the VOR head with GS down
remove nav/com #2, vor #2
remove loran
remove adf and all accompanying equipment
remove DME
remove a boomerang antennae and replace
remove old sigtronics intercom

install 530w
install new head with GS
install new intercom--cant remember which one, i think was about $1200

$15,200 including everything but tax.

thoughts?

[gotyacovered]

bump for MDH... or anyone else with input...

MDH - i ran a friend to get some work done on his autopilot and while we were waiting i was looking around the shop and poked my head into a nice saratoga that was getting a 750 installed... they were replacing a 530W that was only installed 18-24 months ago-new. a conversation sparked up with the shop owner and he said that he was going to buy the 530W from the owner and try to sell it. got my wheels turning and he ended up looking in my plane and quoted me the following:

move kx-175b com/nav #1 and drop down in #2 nav/com slot, as well as drop the VOR head with GS down
remove nav/com #2, vor #2
remove loran
remove adf and all accompanying equipment
remove DME
remove a boomerang antennae and replace
remove old sigtronics intercom

install 530w
install new head with GS
install new intercom--cant remember which one, i think was about $1200

$15,200 including everything but tax.

thoughts?

[rnclittlerock]

Another question, anyone with Garmin ADS-B on here by any chance?  What do you think?

I've already decided that will be my next upgrade, but it isn't available for 530s yet, still working on software per Garmin.  AFAIK you can get it already on the newer touchscreen panels.

I'll be upgrading a GTX330, the 530W, and adding the GDL88.

[gotyacovered]

another self serving bump... MDH (also PM'd maybe that will get his attention)

and sorry to blow you up.

MDH - i ran a friend to get some work done on his autopilot and while we were waiting i was looking around the shop and poked my head into a nice saratoga that was getting a 750 installed... they were replacing a 530W that was only installed 18-24 months ago-new. a conversation sparked up with the shop owner and he said that he was going to buy the 530W from the owner and try to sell it. got my wheels turning and he ended up looking in my plane and quoted me the following:

move kx-175b com/nav #1 and drop down in #2 nav/com slot, as well as drop the VOR head with GS down
remove nav/com #2, vor #2
remove loran
remove adf and all accompanying equipment
remove DME
remove a boomerang antennae and replace
remove old sigtronics intercom

install 530w
install new head with GS
install new intercom--cant remember which one, i think was about $1200

$15,200 including everything but tax.

thoughts?