Upgrades on your wish list....

[GusMcRae]

If and when you get a little extra money to put into your existing plane, what will you be fixing/upgrading etc... ?

I'll start:
1)  Before my next oil change, I'm ordering an oil filter adapter from airplane spruce.  Right now I just have an oil screen.
2)  Go back to the avionics shop and get my AP fixed (roll pin worked it's way out of the worm gear/servo shaft.   2nd time it's happened since I've had the plane which is less than a year, and it happened for the 2nd time only about 3 months after having it fixed the first time)
3)  New plug wire harness, current one is old and I'm pretty sure it needs doing.
4)  Would like to replace the plastic pedestal. It's a little busted up and black plastic would look so much better than that green colored one that's in there now.  Have no idea why it is green to begin with.
5)  Wheel pants, if I can ever find a decent set worth the money.
6)  New Paint

[Flying Razorback]

I love wheel pants.  I don't know why, but I've always felt they make Cessnas look great.

[gotyacovered]

big wish list:
530 or dual 430 or a 650
the 260 hp conversion when its time for new/reman

little wish list:
new instrument panel, metal with lights
new attitude indicator with battery backup
strobes
new plastic - basically new interior
new audio panel
vor for #2 that has GS

[MDH]

big wish list:
530 or dual 430 or a 650
the 260 hp conversion when its time for new/reman

little wish list:
new instrument panel, metal with lights
new attitude indicator with battery backup
strobes
new plastic - basically new interior
new audio panel
vor for #2 that has GS

I'm supposed to sell 650's, but I will say that I would go with a 530W or 430W (if you can get your hands on them- the 430W is no longer being produced and the 530W is soon to follow) over a 650.  The touchscreen idea is nice and is very nice on a 750, but the screen real estate on the 650 is a bit too sparse for it to be effective as a touchscreen platform.  It's usable but I actually prefer the 430 over the 650 as odd as that may sound.  That said, I'd take a 750 over any of them all day long.

530W, SL-30, GMA-340 (or the PM8000BT) and whatever transponder makes a fairly nice stack with out getting too crazy expensive.

Of course if you have a Citation 550 and close to a quarter million dollars you can do this (a job we did earlier this year):

[GusMcRae]

530W, SL-30, GMA-340 (or the PM8000BT) and whatever transponder makes a fairly nice stack with out getting too crazy expensive.

Not exactly what you listed, but not far off.  This is what I work with.

[gotyacovered]

Not exactly what you listed, but not far off.  This is what I work with.

ya... i have nav/comm envy...

[gotyacovered]

I'm supposed to sell 650's, but I will say that I would go with a 530W or 430W (if you can get your hands on them- the 430W is no longer being produced and the 530W is soon to follow) over a 650.  The touchscreen idea is nice and is very nice on a 750, but the screen real estate on the 650 is a bit too sparse for it to be effective as a touchscreen platform.  It's usable but I actually prefer the 430 over the 650 as odd as that may sound.  That said, I'd take a 750 over any of them all day long.

530W, SL-30, GMA-340 (or the PM8000BT) and whatever transponder makes a fairly nice stack with out getting too crazy expensive.

Of course if you have a Citation 550 and close to a quarter million dollars you can do this (a job we did earlier this year):

i am a little surprised on your 650 feedback. i have some minimal experience with one, and i hear you, just not sure I 100% agree. dad went from a G1000 equipped 206 to this and likes this better. there was a slight learning curve with the touch screens tho...

its not really an option for me at this point anyway... i need to find a good used 430w and make that work until after i save up engine reserves. 

here is a pic of the panel in my dads plane...

[MDH]

The 750 in the center that is his #1 GPS/NAV/COM is great, how much does he actually interface and use the 650 as the number 2, besides tuning com frequencies into it?  What if he had two 650's instead of the 750 and 650 combo he currently has?

The way I see it, I wouldn't want to be IMC under a workload and be trying to interface with the small 650 touchscreen.  Much rather have knobs and buttons.  Just my opinion though.  Like I said, I should to push them to some degree, we're sitting on 4 of them right now that we are having a hard time selling.  But part of that problem is that we are so busy we are scheduling installs into Feb 2013 at this point.  We hardly have enough time to get bids out.

[MDH]

Not exactly what you listed, but not far off.  This is what I work with.

Funny you should post that.  We had a very nice Beech F33 come into the hangar today with the same radio stack except the air gizmo/Aera.  Of course it had a G500 and an EDM-930.  Very clean panel.  When you have a G500/G600 why do you really need a 530?   I took a pic of it on my phone, but I generally don't like to post random pics of people's panels- it's a violation of trust in a way.

That's a great stack and economical.  I hate installing SL-30's, but that's just from a installer's perspective. We have had very few SL-30's that we've had to actually repair.  They seem to be a pretty solid radio.

[MDH]

its not really an option for me at this point anyway... i need to find a good used 430w and make that work until after i save up engine reserves. 

I just caught this part.  A few weeks ago we were checking on an avionics listing service for used 430W's and they were asking more than we used to pay for them new.  They are gold disguised as a radio.

[MDH]

2)  Go back to the avionics shop and get my AP fixed (roll pin worked it's way out of the worm gear/servo shaft.   2nd time it's happened since I've had the plane which is less than a year, and it happened for the 2nd time only about 3 months after having it fixed the first time)

I'm assuming that this is a Cessna Autopilot.  Is the roll pin shearing or just literally falling out?

(sorry for the four posts in a row on this thread, I didn't realize I had done it till it was done)

[GusMcRae]

I'm assuming that this is a Cessna Autopilot.  Is the roll pin shearing or just literally falling out?

Negative.  It is an S-tec. Roll pin had fallen out last time.  I'm assuming the same this time but don't know until we get in there.

[MDH]

Negative.  It is an S-tec. Roll pin had fallen out last time.  I'm assuming the same this time but don't know until we get in there.

That's odd.  On STEC servos there is a ball on the bridle cable that goes into a hole on the capstan and is held in place by a set screw- this is what holds the bridle cable in position on the capstan.  I've had that set screw buggered before and replaced that.  The actual transfer of force from the servo to the capstan is through a clutch that you set to whatever torque is appropriate for the install, again I've seen either the clutch not properly adjusted on install (this should be done by the shop anytime an STEC servo is repaired/replaced) or the clutch wear out.  I've never had any issues with any kind of roll pin on an STEC servo- not saying it can't happen, just that I haven't seen it in my years of doing this.  That said, every time I think I've seen everything something new will pop up.  This job will humble you rapidly if you get too cocky.

Of the light aircraft autopilot servos out there STEC are probably the best- partly due to the fact that they are the simplest in design, they really don't ask the servo to be anything more than a motor.  The most common issue we see with the STEC servos is as they age the voltage required to start the servo moving increases (this is because of wear on the brushes in the motor/carbon buildup)- this problem's symptom in flight is that the autopilot will either wander around the heading bug/scallop on the course or on the pitch side the autopilot will porpoise in altitude hold mode.

If the autopilot has no roll or pitch authority whatsoever, it is generally going to be either the clutch on the servo or the drive transistors in the autopilot computer(the Turn Coordinator in System 20/30's or the panel or remote mount unit in other STEC systems).

Sorry for the wall of text there, it's just that when you said roll pin I assumed we were talking about a Cessna autopilot, because that is a common problem with the Cessna servos (bad design really).

[gotyacovered]

The 750 in the center that is his #1 GPS/NAV/COM is great, how much does he actually interface and use the 650 as the number 2, besides tuning com frequencies into it?  What if he had two 650's instead of the 750 and 650 combo he currently has?

The way I see it, I wouldn't want to be IMC under a workload and be trying to interface with the small 650 touchscreen.  Much rather have knobs and buttons.  Just my opinion though.  Like I said, I should to push them to some degree, we're sitting on 4 of them right now that we are having a hard time selling.  But part of that problem is that we are so busy we are scheduling installs into Feb 2013 at this point.  We hardly have enough time to get bids out.

thats great to hear on your business. i would love to know more about where you are and such. my last two issues (a IFR certification and a DME switch repair) i have used two different shops...

i dont mean to act as if i have a ton of experience, even enough to make a choice. but the fact is, i have a lot more with a 650 than a 430, so i dont know the difference between touch screen/buttons. and the other signifigant fact remains... i have ZERO experience with either in IMC.

he uses both, mostly VFR, (only about 3-4 hours IMC in the last 2 months), and naturally the 750 is his primary. he suggested i look at the 650 over the 430 b/c that is the way everything is going and he loves it.

what is the sticker on a 650? 750? last i talked to a shop he gave me a guesstimate price of $10k for a used 430W installed. that was not a bid, on paper though. he had just repaired my DME and i was quizzing him about it. does that sound realistic?

[GusMcRae]

MDH, no apologies necessary.
I appreciate the input very much.
I am going to take your notes with me when I finally take it back to the avionics shop. I've already told the technician that it has happened again, and that we're going to figure out "why" because I'm not going to be putting it back in the shop for the same recurring problem every 3 months. 
I can't be certain that it is the same problem, but it acts exactly the same way it did before.  With the master and avionics switch on, sitting in the hangar, you can roll the heading bug to the top and you can hear the servo go quiet, roll it either way and hear the servo kick on like it's trying to move the ailrons, but nothing happens in regard to the yoke/ailrons moving.

[gotyacovered]

MDH, no apologies necessary.
I appreciate the input very much.

i would like to echo this as well. the more the better!!!!

[MDH]

thats great to hear on your business. i would love to know more about where you are and such. my last two issues (a IFR certification and a DME switch repair) i have used two different shops...

i dont mean to act as if i have a ton of experience, even enough to make a choice. but the fact is, i have a lot more with a 650 than a 430, so i dont know the difference between touch screen/buttons. and the other signifigant fact remains... i have ZERO experience with either in IMC.

he uses both, mostly VFR, (only about 3-4 hours IMC in the last 2 months), and naturally the 750 is his primary. he suggested i look at the 650 over the 430 b/c that is the way everything is going and he loves it.

what is the sticker on a 650? 750? last i talked to a shop he gave me a guesstimate price of $10k for a used 430W installed. that was not a bid, on paper though. he had just repaired my DME and i was quizzing him about it. does that sound realistic?

That 10k on a used 430W installed sounds like the right ballpark, heck that might have been us.  You can get into a used 430W equipment wise in the 6500 to 7k range.  Most of those you'll need to get a rack, connectors and antenna and the job is around 40 hours in most aircraft, so yeah it sounds just about right. 

650's run around 11-12k installed in most aircraft, 750's in the 15-16 range (not really sure on the 750 price).  I've not done any quotes lately, the last one I did was on the Citation job I posted a pic of earlier in the thread so the equipment prices aren't current in my head.

I'm in Fort Smith, been back here about a year and a half now.  There are just two of us here now, our third was commuting down from Springdale every day and took a job with Summit doing A&P/IA stuff (though I have no doubt he's doing minor avionics stuff for them which is fine).  Can't blame him for taking the opportunity to not make the drive, even if his hands are getting dirtier.

As far as the 650 thing that's just my personal opinion and I tend to be a bit old school in my preferences, I've only had a smart phone for two years now and I don't have a iPad.  It's probably perfectly workable for people once they get used to it.  You can use the knob for a lot of things, further reducing you interface with the touchscreen if you desire so I'm just resisting change I guess.  I really love the 430/530's.  Those radios changed aviation in a way that few things in avionics ever had.  Easily the best designed (on all levels) radio that I have ever put in a small aircraft. 

The one nice thing about the 650 over the 430 is that the database has the airways in it so you put your entry point in the flight plan and then tap it, load airway and then select your exit from the list.  I guess my biggest gripe is that entering/modifying a flight plan on the 750 is so much easier because of that extra screen real estate.  Also the graphical flight plan editing seemed easier to me.

[MDH]

I can't be certain that it is the same problem, but it acts exactly the same way it did before.  With the master and avionics switch on, sitting in the hangar, you can roll the heading bug to the top and you can hear the servo go quiet, roll it either way and hear the servo kick on like it's trying to move the ailrons, but nothing happens in regard to the yoke/ailrons moving.

Can you feel any resistance if you try to move the ailerons with the AP engaged?  Do you hear a clunk from the left wing when you engage the AP?

My gut tells me that it is either that the roll solenoid isn't engaging for whatever reason (if you don't hear the clunk) or the clutch is slipping.  The thing is if it worked well for 2 1/2 months it makes me go away from the clutch.  I'm not saying it isn't, just less likely.

Either way some troubleshooting is required.  Like I said, I don't get too cocky any longer as I've been humbled too many times.  The real trick in avionics service work is doing the troubleshooting right the first time and autopilots can be difficult to troubleshoot, though this sounds fairly cut and dried (famous last words ).

Has any work been done in the wings recently (annual, etc)?  The servo uses a slide lock connector and it could have come partially disengaged if disturbed.  The solenoid pins are on one end of the plug and the roll motor pins are more towards the center, so it is possible that the plug could be disengaged in a manner that the solenoid contacts aren't making.

[GusMcRae]

Can you feel any resistance if you try to move the ailerons with the AP engaged? 

Do you hear a clunk from the left wing when you engage the AP?


Has any work been done in the wings recently (annual, etc)? 

No resistance
No clunk
No work done in the wing

[MDH]

Sounds like the solenoid isn't engaging.  The simplest check would be to pull the inspection panel to gain access to the servo and unplug and replug the connector, and clean the contacts with electrical contact cleaner.  If you don't feel comfortable doing it you could get a local mechanic to do it, it's about a 15 minute job tops.  The access panel is on the aft portion of the left wing somewhere around the outboard end of the flaps.  This probably won't be the problem but it is a quick check that could save you a trip to the shop.

The servo looks like this:


If that doesn't cure it you'll probably should just take it to the shop.

I've totally hijacked this thread though, so back on subject.  If we were going to keep the comanche, three things all of which are either unavailable or way out of our price range.
1) Somehow get a fuel injected engine on it.
2) Get a turbo on it.
3) G-500 and a second 430W.

We looked into 1 & 2 when we were restoring it with no real luck.  RayJay had a Turbo for it back in the day but we couldn't put our hands on one.  As far as I am aware there is no STC for a PA-24-180 to put fuel injection in it.  Other than that the plane has about everything else you could want in a 1959 Comanche.  All the Knots2U mods, immaculate interior and paint and a very serviceable IFR package, just a bit dated by today's standards.

[gotyacovered]

That 10k on a used 430W installed sounds like the right ballpark, heck that might have been us.  You can get into a used 430W equipment wise in the 6500 to 7k range.  Most of those you'll need to get a rack, connectors and antenna and the job is around 40 hours in most aircraft, so yeah it sounds just about right. 

650's run around 11-12k installed in most aircraft, 750's in the 15-16 range (not really sure on the 750 price).  I've not done any quotes lately, the last one I did was on the Citation job I posted a pic of earlier in the thread so the equipment prices aren't current in my head.

I'm in Fort Smith, been back here about a year and a half now.  There are just two of us here now, our third was commuting down from Springdale every day and took a job with Summit doing A&P/IA stuff (though I have no doubt he's doing minor avionics stuff for them which is fine).  Can't blame him for taking the opportunity to not make the drive, even if his hands are getting dirtier.

As far as the 650 thing that's just my personal opinion and I tend to be a bit old school in my preferences, I've only had a smart phone for two years now and I don't have a iPad.  It's probably perfectly workable for people once they get used to it.  You can use the knob for a lot of things, further reducing you interface with the touchscreen if you desire so I'm just resisting change I guess.  I really love the 430/530's.  Those radios changed aviation in a way that few things in avionics ever had.  Easily the best designed (on all levels) radio that I have ever put in a small aircraft. 

The one nice thing about the 650 over the 430 is that the database has the airways in it so you put your entry point in the flight plan and then tap it, load airway and then select your exit from the list.  I guess my biggest gripe is that entering/modifying a flight plan on the 750 is so much easier because of that extra screen real estate.  Also the graphical flight plan editing seemed easier to me.

so, basically i just need to get a 750

i posted a few other comments in your other thread... think that is a good idea.

[MDH]

so, basically i just need to get a 750

i posted a few other comments in your other thread... think that is a good idea.

You are fortunate in that you've got an in to see/use both in action prior to making the purchase.  I don't have a ton of time behind either in the air, but I've used the hell out of them on the ground which is where my opinion comes from.

The Citation pilot said of the dual 750 and G600 "This is the best thing I've ever flown behind." He's not just a citation stick, he's flown the newer falcons etc and likes the garmin stuff better than the Collins Pro Line 21- dunno if he's ever been behind the Primus Epic, I'll have to ask him.

[GusMcRae]

2)  Go back to the avionics shop and get my AP fixed (roll pin worked it's way out of the worm gear/servo shaft.   2nd time it's happened since I've had the plane which is less than a year, and it happened for the 2nd time only about 3 months after having it fixed the first time)

Scheduled to do this next Wednesday.
Hard to believe I've put this off this long. 

Plan to bear down on the IFR training immediately.