Why would the Cowboys let the league's leading rusher...

[Cresthog]

Really?  COULDN'T?  But they could sign Hardy?

I see you just answered my question before I asked it.  Yes, if they could come up with the money to sign Hardy...and McFadden...they COULD have signed Murray.

And yes, I would rather have signed the Offensive Player of the Year...a great teammate who was loved by everyone in the locker room...than a criminal who played one game and had one sack last year.

You realize he wasn't convicted of anything right?

Can't deal with your ignorance anymore. Here or Jumpball.

[EastexHawg]

You realize he wasn't convicted of anything right?

Can't deal with your ignorance anymore. Here or Jumpball.

Speaking of ignorance...actually, he was convicted.  He was filing an appeal when the charges were dismissed because he paid off his victim.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11220817/greg-hardy-carolina-panthers-guilty-2-counts-domestic-violence

[Cresthog]

Speaking of ignorance...actually, he was convicted.  He was filing an appeal when the charges were dismissed because he paid off his victim.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11220817/greg-hardy-carolina-panthers-guilty-2-counts-domestic-violence

Dismissed. And the Cowboys don't have to pay him anything if he doesn't play.

Whatever the case is. If we're talking moral high ground here, look up Murray's track record...

What are you going to say if Murray goes down in the first few games of the season with an injury?

[grayhawg]

Signing Hardy and DMAC is considering less than keeping Murray. If I remember the deal with the Eagles is a 5 year deal for 42 million with 21 million guaranteed.

[Richard_white]

The Cowboys decided to add to the defense especially since we lost a few from an already depleted defense.

The Cowboys could have signed Murray.  Then we wouldn't be able to get players and added depth to the defense.  Then it would be much harder to resign Beasley.  Plus they didn't want to tie up the cap pretty much on the offense.  Romo, Murray and resigning Bryant.  This was Dallas pitch to keep CRM.  And it was the best decision.

[Richard_white]

...given the circumstances the team found itself in. 

I assume you are NOT saying this was a good decision but rather the best Dallas could do in the circumstances they (the team) put itself in as a result of years of questionable personnel moves and signings. 

Dallas does seem to be working back toward financial (cap) sanity. 

Between resigning Murray vs taking care of the defense, It was the best decision.

[bennyl08]

Really?  COULDN'T?  But they could sign Hardy?

I see you just answered my question before I asked it.  Yes, if they could come up with the money to sign Hardy...and McFadden...they COULD have signed Murray.

And yes, I would rather have signed the Offensive Player of the Year...a great teammate who was loved by everyone in the locker room...than a criminal who played one game and had one sack last year.

Might want to check what those two are making again. Their combined guaranteed salary is less than Murray is being paid for 1 year with guarantees. It's about a 4:1 ratio. (

[EastexHawg]

Might want to check what those two are making again. Their combined guaranteed salary is less than Murray is being paid for 1 year with guarantees. It's about a 4:1 ratio. (

I did check.  So did ESPN.

The Dallas Cowboys did not need to restructure any contracts to get Greg Hardy's contract to fit under the salary cap. Yet.

By the time the third week of the regular season rolls around, they will have to account for roughly $8.1 million in the remaining $9.25 million per-game roster bonuses Hardy will receive throughout the season as long as he is on the 53-man roster.

Because he was on the Carolina Panthers' 53-man roster for two weeks in 2014, 14 of the per-game bonuses are considered not-likely-to-be-earned and will hit the cap one week at a time at $578,125 per game.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/164616/greg-hardys-contract-will-affect-cap-eventually

But maybe an asteroid will destroy the Earth before the middle of September and Jerry and the Cowboys will get lucky, never having to pay for the salary cap can they kicked down the road.

[grayhawg]

I did check.  So did ESPN.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/164616/greg-hardys-contract-will-affect-cap-eventually

But maybe an asteroid will destroy the Earth before the middle of September and Jerry and the Cowboys will get lucky, never having to pay for the salary cap can they kicked down the road.

If Murray plays only one game and is gone for whatever reason he gets 21 million.

[EastexHawg]

If Murray plays only one game and is gone for whatever reason he gets 21 million.

And if the Cowboys can't effectively run the football the way they did last year that defense that needs so much help will be on the field a lot longer...Romo may get his brains beat out trying to carry the offense again...and Jerry and Stephen Jones will have plenty of time to work on next year's salary cap while they are sitting at home after missing the playoffs for the 7th time in the last 9 years.

Regardless of the what-ifs, my point is that the claims that the Cowboys "couldn't" sign Murray were utter BS.  Hardy is not nearly as "affordable" as the people who made that argument have claimed him to be.

[bennyl08]

And if the Cowboys can't effectively run the football the way they did last year that defense that needs so much help will be on the field a lot longer...Romo may get his brains beat out trying to carry the offense again...and Jerry and Stephen Jones will have plenty of time to work on next year's salary cap while they are sitting at home after missing the playoffs for the 7th time in the last 9 years.

Regardless of the what-ifs, my point is that the claims that the Cowboys "couldn't" sign Murray were utter BS.  Hardy is not nearly as "affordable" as the people who made that argument have claimed him to be.

He is guaranteed as much salary by the Cowboys as I am (i.e. $0). His base salary is 750k, but he can up to 11 million and change with incentives.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/greg-hardy/

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/demarco-murray/

Murray has 21 million in guarantees, with up to 40 million in salary over 5 years.

Using your same what-if scenario, what if Murray gets hurt next year, the cowboys don't have enough money to have any decent backups (given that in your scenario nobody they can currently run the ball), so the defense is on the field longer and Romo gets beat up, and they paid a running back with one good season under his belt so much that they can't afford to keep any other players who are coming up on new contracts.

Or, you give Dez a good contract and let somebody else overpay for Murray. Running backs with a high workload almost always stink it up the next season, not to mention a rb with an extensive injury history. Moreover, the odds of finding a rb who can replace him are pretty good. The success rate of RB's has been much higher than WR's, qb's or DL players. Plus, they don't last as long in general.

Yes, they COULD have kept Murray. However, they made the move that gives them the highest probability of future success.

[EastexHawg]

The odds of finding a running back who can replace 1,845 yards are pretty good?  I'll be willing to make a friendly wager of $50 with the first person who wants to take it that no Cowboys back comes within 500 yards of that figure in 2015.

BTW, is Murray the only back who could be subject to injury next year?  He hasn't missed as many games as one of the guys we just signed to replace him.

[grayhawg]

The odds of finding a running back who can replace 1,845 yards are pretty good?  I'll be willing to make a friendly wager of $50 with the first person who wants to take it that no Cowboys back comes within 500 yards of that figure in 2015.

BTW, is Murray the only back who could be subject to injury next year?  He hasn't missed as many games as one of the guys we just signed to replace him.

If all things fall into place with DMAC he makes less than 6 million over 2 years,in two years the Eagles pay Murray at least 16 million.

[Dr. Starcs]

For as great as Murray was last year, the end result was a playoff loss.

If the ultimate goal is to win another Super Bowl, Dallas needed more help defensively than offensively. The year before last, when Murray was injured quite a bit, Dallas still managed to be one of the top offenses in the league.

Will he be hard to replace at that position?  Absolutely. Fact of the matter is, none of us no how it all will play out. We probably won't even know until years from now whether it was the right move or not.

My suggestion is, sit back and try to enjoy the upcoming seasons as much as you can. Dallas over-achieved IMO last year. It will be hard to repeat that performance even with a demarco Murray. However, the jones' seem to have earned the benefit of the doubt in the recent seasons.

[HiggiePiggy]

If all things fall into place with DMAC he makes less than 6 million over 2 years,in two years the Eagles pay Murray at least 16 million.

That is true, but if the eagles make the playoffs those two years and Dallas is sitting at home would it have been worth it? 

[bennyl08]

The odds of finding a running back who can replace 1,845 yards are pretty good?  I'll be willing to make a friendly wager of $50 with the first person who wants to take it that no Cowboys back comes within 500 yards of that figure in 2015.

BTW, is Murray the only back who could be subject to injury next year?  He hasn't missed as many games as one of the guys we just signed to replace him.

Is finding 1845 yards exactly by one single running back going to be easy to replace? No of course not. Are the odds good of being able to find a running back or group thereof that can be effective? Yes. If Dallas drafts Gurley, Abdulah, or Gordon, which they have a pretty darn good shot at landing one of the three, then they will be fine with Dman, Randle, Dunbar, and whoever they draft. Sure, if they wait too long in the draft, the odds decrease. But if they can draft Gurley then they instantly upgraded their RB position.

Is Murray the only back subject to injury? Of course not. However, you are comparing to one of the few running backs with a bigger injury history. That would be like saying qb's should never miss starts due to injury and citing Favre and Big Ben. Murray is a very injury prone back. Much more so than most other starters in the league.

[EastexHawg]

Is Murray the only back subject to injury? Of course not. However, you are comparing to one of the few running backs with a bigger injury history. That would be like saying qb's should never miss starts due to injury and citing Favre and Big Ben. Murray is a very injury prone back. Much more so than most other starters in the league.

I compared him to the back the Cowboys signed to replace him.  I didn't pull McFadden's name out of thin air.

If this were just a Cowboys board and not "Hogville", or if the Cowboys had signed any other back who has averaged 3.3 ypc over the last three years after letting Murray walk, most people would be questioning how the heck Jerry thinks he made a "good move".

As for Murray having one great season and being injury prone...how many great years did Gurley have at Georgia...and how did his 2014 season end?

[bennyl08]

I compared him to the back the Cowboys signed to replace him.  I didn't pull McFadden's name out of thin air.

If this were just a Cowboys board and not "Hogville", or if the Cowboys had signed any other back who has averaged 3.3 ypc over the last three years after letting Murray walk, most people would be questioning how the heck Jerry thinks he made a "good move".

As for Murray having one great season and being injury prone...how many great years did Gurley have at Georgia...and how did his 2014 season end?

I don't think many people actually expect Dallas to be content with the guys they currently have on the roster. Anybody who thinks Dmac will be able to replace Murray is extremely optimistic at best.

I still don't think most people would be questioning if the cowboys made a good move. Look at the Saints. Did they make a good move trading an expensive TE for a much cheaper center? Jimmy Graham is one of the top two TE's in the NFL, with him and Gronk being at a completely different level than any other player. There is no realistic way they can replace what he was able to do. However, they made a good move when it comes to salary cap issues and the idea that Brees is good enough that he will find another way to move the ball downfield.

Cowboys were facing similar salary cap issues. They made the right choice in not overpaying one of the easiest positions to replace. Not saying it is guaranteed they can replace Murray, but of all the positions, they have the best chance at replacing a rb.

I would say Gurley had 3 good seasons at Georgia. Yes, he missed most of one season a few games the previous, but still managed to gather total 1000 yards and 10 tds in each season. He missed 7 games this past year and still managed that.

Torn ACL's happen from time to time. He doesn't have a  history of missing entire seasons, though. He tore an ACL last year, and sprained an ankle the year before. Nothing about that says injury prone. Just have be sure that his ACL has fully healed.

[bennyl08]

Or, to put it another way, imagine if bringing JWill back came at the cost of 3 scholarships a year for the next 3 years. Sure, the razorbacks COULD do that. However, should the hawgs do that? Risk losing depth at other positions, makes it harder to talk other players from declaring early for the draft, all while we can recruit another guy to take his place. LSU doesn't replace guys like Jeremy Hill and Steven Ridley very easily. However, they remain an effective rushing team by having a handful of backs rush for 500+ yards rather than one guy who rushes for 1000+. Dallas's ability to run won't be crippled if they don't have a top notch back. Minnesota lost the best running back of this entire era of football and still ranked 14th, Baltimore lost it's star rb in Ray Rice and still ranked 8th in rushing. The Jets running game consisted of a cast off from the saints in Ivory, and an old castoff from the Titans with CJ2k. They ranked 3rd in the NFL last year in rushing. The cowboys can do just as well with Randle and Dunbar as the Jets can with Ivory and Johnson.

[Richard_white]

Don't be surprised to see a trade/deal to Peterson by the draft.

I prefer they go get somrone from the draft but it sure does look like Dallas is going to use their 1st round pick on Peterson. Plus they just got done recontructured Romo's contract again to free up a good chunck of cap space.

[EastexHawg]

Romo said yesterday he would have taken a $5 million pay cut to keep DeMarco Murray on the team, but the Cowboys never pursued any option in an attempt to sign Murray.  They are, however, trying to restructure his contract in order to pay Greg Hardy.

Jerry and Steven Jones apparently think they are going to be able to get Adrian Peterson.  We'll see.  Seems like a heckuva gamble to me.

By the way...Peterson is 30, Murray is 27.

[DLUXHOG]

I don't think many people actually expect Dallas to be content with the guys they currently have on the roster. Anybody who thinks Dmac will be able to replace Murray is extremely optimistic at best.

I dfrobin@verizon.netreplace what he was able to do. However, they made a good move when it comes to salary cap issues and the idea that Brees is good enough that he will find another way to move the ball downfield.

Cowboys were facing similar salary cap issues. They made the right choice in not overpaying one of the easiest positions to replace. Not saying it is guaranteed they can replace Murray, but of all the positions, they have the best chance at replacing a rb. ........

Why don't we wait & see what DMAC can do behind the mammoth and healthy Dallas O-line before we announce a wake for the guy.  At one time, DMAC was considered one of the best, maybe ever, albeit it was college play...

[bennyl08]

Why don't we wait & see what DMAC can do behind the mammoth and healthy Dallas O-line before we announce a wake for the guy.  At one time, DMAC was considered one of the best, maybe ever, albeit it was college play...

Dmac had one solid season with the Raiders and was pretty much who Murray was compared to heading into the season (very different running styles, but still). I'm not saying he will be an utter failure in Dallas. Eastex seems to think that anybody who rushes for less yards than Murray will be a failure.

[EastexHawg]

No, what Eastex says is that what made the Dallas offense what it was last year...and in large part allowed the team to match the best record in the NFC with a road win at Seattle and what should have been a road playoff win at Green Bay...was the fact that the running game was able to consistently move the ball and control the game, making the defense play to stop run first and thereby opening up the pass game and keeping Romo from having to do it all himself.

Furthermore, what Eastex is saying is that if Dallas isn't able to run the ball as effectively in 2015, and if the record slips from last year's 12-4 to something closer to the breakeven range (8-8, 9-7) we have seen in recent years, all the talk about "not overpaying" and "Jerry's wise move not to pay a running back when it's the easiest position to replace" will have been a bunch of malarky. 

Eastex is further saying that if the Cowboys can't get into third and short, can't consistently convert 3rd and 2 and 3rd and 3 as they did 76% of the time last year, thereby put the defense back on the field more than in 2014, and in the process of all that slip back into mediocrity and miss the playoffs...

Jerry and Steven't brilliant move will have been a failure and the money they "save" will have been fool's gold.

That's what Eastex is saying.

[bennyl08]

No, what Eastex says is that what made the Dallas offense what it was last year...and in large part allowed the team to match the best record in the NFC with a road win at Seattle and what should have been a road playoff win at Green Bay...was the fact that the running game was able to consistently move the ball and control the game, making the defense play to stop run first and thereby opening up the pass game and keeping Romo from having to do it all himself.

Furthermore, what Eastex is saying is that if Dallas isn't able to run the ball as effectively in 2015, and if the record slips from last year's 12-4 to something closer to the breakeven range (8-8, 9-7) we have seen in recent years, all the talk about "not overpaying" and "Jerry's wise move not to pay a running back when it's the easiest position to replace" will have been a bunch of malarky. 

Eastex is further saying that if the Cowboys can't get into third and short, can't consistently convert 3rd and 2 and 3rd and 3 as they did 76% of the time last year, thereby put the defense back on the field more than in 2014, and in the process of all that slip back into mediocrity and miss the playoffs...

Jerry and Steven't brilliant move will have been a failure and the money they "save" will have been fool's gold.

That's what Eastex is saying.

What if they don't replicate that his year, but then next year and the next 5 they do? Beating philly's offer would have been a major risk, especially for the cowboys who aren't swimming in cap space. What is the point of having Romo, Murray, and Dez if they can't afford to keep that OL in a year or two?

Sure, it would have been the best move the cowboys could have done for next season to bring Murray back. I don't think many people would argue that. However, teams that mortgage their future to win now typically do neither.

So, we lost 3 defensive players this year who were arguably the core of our defense, Flowers, Philon, and Spaight. Flowers was a senior and had to leave. But lets say Coach could have talked one of them into staying but not the other. However, he could bring back the other IF he gave up 3 scholarships for the next three years (9 total). Who would you bring back, or would you bring back both? That is essentially the situation Dallas was in. A quality WR is much harder to find than a quality RB. A receiver is less likely to be injured, not to mention Murray's injury history, and a receiver if more likely to stay productive long into his career than a rb. The teams that are consistently in the playoffs and doing well do not overpay for players and are willing to let "star" players leave if it will hurt the team to keep them.

[bennyl08]

Spaight is a senior as well. Pretend he's a junior...

[Richard_white]

Dallas wasn't going to tie up all their cap space on three positions...Romo, Murray and resigning Dez.  Dallas wants to keep their OL intact and get better defensively.

[EastexHawg]

The proof will be in the pudding.  The objective...at least in my opinion...is to win on the field, not to save money.  We'll all see how it turns out this fall.

[Dr. Starcs]

I think what he's saying is it won't just be this year that determines whether it was the right move or not. While this year will be a significant factor, it may be a few years before we have a definitive answer.

[bennyl08]

The proof will be in the pudding.  The objective...at least in my opinion...is to win on the field, not to save money.  We'll all see how it turns out this fall.

The objective is to make money. This is largely accomplished by winning games, but winning games consistently. A team that makes the playoffs year and year out winning 10+ games in the process will in general be more successful than a team that wins a superbowl once then has 5 bad seasons where they don't make the playoffs. Look at the Falcons and the Redskins and the Saints vs the Packers and Patriots.

[EastexHawg]

I think what he's saying is it won't just be this year that determines whether it was the right move or not. While this year will be a significant factor, it may be a few years before we have a definitive answer.

The Cowboys have an All-Pro QB, the leading passer in the NFL, but he is 35 years old.  They had all the pieces in place to win a championship last year.  Will that be the case two, three, or five years from now?

Do everything possible to win a championship when the opportunity is there.  If nothing else, Cowboys fans ought to realize that it's hard to put together a potential championship caliber squad...and even harder to keep it together once it's in place.

[Dr. Starcs]

^^^

I understand those thoughts completely and agree with you there. 

[EastexHawg]

Jerry Jones is wealthy beyond his wildest dreams.  I know even the richest people want to make more money, but it's not like he is a fourth year defensive back trying to cash in on free agency and ensure his financial future while he can.

What he and most Cowboys fans want more than anything else is another Super Bowl championship.

[DLUXHOG]

Jerry Jones is wealthy beyond his wildest dreams.  I know even the richest people want to make more money, but it's not like he is a fourth year defensive back trying to cash in on free agency and ensure his financial future while he can.

What he and most Cowboys fans want more than anything else is another Super Bowl championship.

Jerry's wealth isn't the issue.......Salary Cap is.....

[bennyl08]

Jerry's wealth isn't the issue.......Salary Cap is.....

He is countering my arguement football is a business that is all about making money more than winning games. Of course, winning games is a great way to make money. However, I argue that winning 10+ and making the playoffs every year is more important than trying to win a Super Bowl this year regardless if you suck after that. Better to climb a 14'er every year for 20 years than to climb Everest once and not be able to climb again sort of thing.

The Cowboys have an All-Pro QB, the leading passer in the NFL, but he is 35 years old.  They had all the pieces in place to win a championship last year.  Will that be the case two, three, or five years from now?

Do everything possible to win a championship when the opportunity is there.  If nothing else, Cowboys fans ought to realize that it's hard to put together a potential championship caliber squad...and even harder to keep it together once it's in place.

Might be jumping the gun a teensy bit on leading passer in the NFL. However, they certainly have a good one and he won't be there forever. however, there is a way to maximize your odds now without digging your own grave in the future. Look at the Broncos as a prime example. They are certainly in win now mode, but they just let one of the better TE's in the league walk this year, not to mention Decker last year. They trust Manning will get results with other guys while still wanting to have a team that can compete when he is gone.

Look at the Saints. They gave up arguable THE best TE in the league, a player of much higher prestige and harder to replace than Murray. They too have an aging qb with a closing window, but they let one guy go (traded) so that they could get several other guys in.

[EastexHawg]

Might be jumping the gun a teensy bit on leading passer in the NFL.

Romo led the league in passer rating in 2014.  That is what I was referencing.

[bennyl08]

Romo led the league in passer rating in 2014.  That is what I was referencing.

Technically Mohamed Sanu did, but of people who threw more than 5 passes, he did lead the NFL in that stat (which is a very reasonable cutoff). I would argue that Rogers had the best season in the NFL and put up the best stats overall, but that's looking a little bigger picture. 

[Dr. Starcs]

^^^^

Well since you're into technicalities.......it's Rodgers. (Unless of course you meant Kenny Rogers)

[bennyl08]

^^^^

Well since you're into technicalities.......it's Rodgers. (Unless of course you meant Kenny Rogers)

Womp womp.