We Had A Really Good Thing

[code red]

I fail to see how a .500 record leads anyone to believe this ship is headed in the right direction....but, maybe I am a negative nancy.

[HogMantheIntruder]

I agree the program bottomed out.  Not sure what happened in 1950-53.  Maybe someone here does.  The point is that we are seeing historic lows, not just cyclical lows the way even Frank Broyles saw them for two years in the 60's.  Was BP the impetus?  Is A&M joining the conference the reason?  We have dominated them until the last 5 years.  Is the SEC West simply stronger from top to bottom than ever?  Have we as a program become uncompetitive?

I don't know the answer to those questions, just raising them, but I think this year and next will be an indicator.

IMHO, a bottomed out Arkansas football program takes more time to rebuild than many other schools, especially when changing schemes so drastically. That's why I'm ok with giving CBB longer than the standard 4-5 years. Recruiting is on the rise, and we're actually winning some battles with the traditional powers for once. Depth has gotten better at almost every position. We have two former HC's as our coordinators. It remains to be seen whether the strategy of hiring young up and comers from the NFL as position coaches will work out, but it's not a bad theory, and the players and recruits seem to be responding well.

Last year we were two bad halves away from a third consecutive year of improving our record and extending our bowl game winning streak. I'm willing to forgive the step back, provided we fix the glaring issues on D and OL, improve our record, and continue our uptick in recruiting over the next two years.

[code red]

Last year was a step back no matter how you look at it.  LSU and Auburn just don't happen.  We were not prepared for either game period.  This is glaring and next season it must get fixed.

[Ex-Trumpet]

Yes, we all agree the Hogs were a mess when CBB took over.

But nowhere near the mess Penn State was in; Penn State football was dang near execution.

Hog fans are tired of excuses.  This year is do or die in my eyes with the current regime.  And, for the record, I hope CBB succeeds beyond anyone's wildest dreams.  He is a likable guy that fits the image of Hogs football.  (And, if he doesn't succeed, we will be back to square one).

[gchamblee]

Season record under CBB
3-9
7-6
8-5
7-6

Football revenue in 2013: $24 million (net)
Football revenue in 2016: $34 million (net)

The football program continues to make more and more money, despite mediocre winning percentage and not competing for championships. The money is what's the priority, not winning. That's clear. Not sure what's moronic about pointing that out.

http://www.arkansasrazorbacks.com/arkansas-one-of-24-financially-self-supporting-programs-in-ncaa/

That does not point out what is important, it points out that the fans with money have faith in the program under the current regime.

As for us being a contender, we were not. We got beat by every great team we played except South Carolina one year. CBP struggled against some bad teams and beat some good team. Great teams have always been his kryptonite.

[gchamblee]

I believe it to be true. In all honesty it's probably been that way forever now and I just now caught on the past couple of years. Think about it, neither Nutt nor Petrino got let go because of wins and losses. Bielema won't either, no chance. Had it not been for off the field shenanigans with Mitch Mustain Houston Nutt would probably still have a job here.

You gotta give Jeff Long credit...he is excellent at marketing and pushing the "brand." However, winning/losing football games wouldn't make the top five on the 'to do' list at Arkansas while in the South eastern conference. Anyone who believes it does is not paying attention. Do they want to win? Sure...but it's merely the cherry on top if it happens.

I wonder who hired that top level coach CBP

[gchamblee]

This is where I'm at.  It's frankly disappointing that most people are ok with cbb's record.  In fact it's pretty well accepted by most that he could go 3-5 or even 2-6 in conference and not be fired this year.

Most people do not hold 2013 against him, which is understandable.

[gchamblee]

IMHO, a bottomed out Arkansas football program takes more time to rebuild than many other schools, especially when changing schemes so drastically. That's why I'm ok with giving CBB longer than the standard 4-5 years. Recruiting is on the rise, and we're actually winning some battles with the traditional powers for once. Depth has gotten better at almost every position. We have two former HC's as our coordinators. It remains to be seen whether the strategy of hiring young up and comers from the NFL as position coaches will work out, but it's not a bad theory, and the players and recruits seem to be responding well.

Last year we were two bad halves away from a third consecutive year of improving our record and extending our bowl game winning streak. I'm willing to forgive the step back, provided we fix the glaring issues on D and OL, improve our record, and continue our uptick in recruiting over the next two years.

Good post

[(notOM)Rebel123]

Why do so many people downplay the 2010/2011 seasons?
If Julian Horton had understood the concept of a blocked punt, we beat Ohio St. in the Sugar Bowl.
In 2011, we went on the road against #1 LSU in the last game of the year with a shot to play for the national championship-we played them to within 1 TD going into the 4th quarter.
Sure, we were overmatched against Alabama in 2011.

But for 2 seasons, we watched every game thinking we had a legit chance to win and the nation wouldn't have been shocked.
For those that mock the success of the 2010/2011 seasons, what do you say about what's happening now?

Then the Honey Badger happened

It may have been 24-17 at the end of the 3rd, but in a short 4:51, the score was 38-17.
LSU 31-17 w/11:04 left
LSU 38-17 w/10:09 left

Not to mention we had a 14-0 lead with 12:00 to go in the 1st half and were down 21-14 at halftime.


So yes, we were within a TD going into the 4th. But after jumping out to a 14 point lead, we were outscored 41-3. I'm not mocking the success of that season. We were close. But still so far away.

[RME]

Yes, we all agree the Hogs were a mess when CBB took over.

But nowhere near the mess Penn State was in; Penn State football was dang near execution.

Hog fans are tired of excuses.  This year is do or die in my eyes with the current regime.  And, for the record, I hope CBB succeeds beyond anyone's wildest dreams.  He is a likable guy that fits the image of Hogs football.  (And, if he doesn't succeed, we will be back to square one).

But, but 3 years from now when he is still here and winning 7/8 per season, people will still be talking about how bad the program was when he took over and how he's taking his time to build it the right way.

I'm with you, I want him to succeed more than anyone else because that means Arkansas football will be succeeding. Yeah, we know Arkansas football was in the shitter when he took over. There's no denying that. But at what year can we stop the "he's building it up his way" argument?

[Hawgar The Horrible]

It's all good now too. The wins will come because every other aspect of the football program --- discipline, recruiting, academics, etc... are already in place or improving. It may be taking some time, but the foundation is solid.

[code red]

It's all good now too. The wins will come because every other aspect of the football program --- discipline, recruiting, academics, etc... are already in place or improving. It may be taking some time, but the foundation is solid.

I don't know if I follow that logic.  Again, you just can't lay anymore eggs in SEC play.  Just can't happen.

[Gonzo]

Who knows... maybe Petrino could have led us to the promise land, but at what cost.  Think Baylor.  He definitely was not a "players" or "fans" coach, unless you would sell your soul for more wins.  Think Michael Dyer.

I can always count on HV for a good, hearty laugh


Go Hogs!

[code red]

Yes, we all agree the Hogs were a mess when CBB took over.

But nowhere near the mess Penn State was in; Penn State football was dang near execution.

Hog fans are tired of excuses.  This year is do or die in my eyes with the current regime.  And, for the record, I hope CBB succeeds beyond anyone's wildest dreams.  He is a likable guy that fits the image of Hogs football.  (And, if he doesn't succeed, we will be back to square one).

Agreed.  If CBB foundation is as good as everyone is saying.  Then, any coach could come in here and win.

[GuvHog]

It may have been 24-17 at the end of the 3rd, but in a short 4:51, the score was 38-17.
LSU 31-17 w/11:04 left
LSU 38-17 w/10:09 left

Not to mention we had a 14-0 lead with 12:00 to go in the 1st half and were down 21-14 at halftime.


So yes, we were within a TD going into the 4th. But after jumping out to a 14 point lead, we were outscored 41-3. I'm not mocking the success of that season. We were close. But still so far away.

That LSU team was a team that played on momentum. Arkansas had the momentum in that game and surged to a 14-0 lead but a misplaced punt giving Honey badger a wide open sideline gave LSU the momentum and completely changed the complexion of that game.

The Hogs were not perfect in 2010 and 2011 by any means but those 2 years put the last 5 years to shame and that is really sad.

[Hawgar The Horrible]

I don't know if I follow that logic.  Again, you just can't lay anymore eggs in SEC play.  Just can't happen.

I didn't suspect you would. Hate to break it to you, but for all the aforementioned things I stated CBB is going nowhere anytime soon.

[incHOGnito]

Except not being within 3 td's of two teams in the same division. Could'n score from pretty much anywhere on them, and thus were NOT LEGIT national championship contenders.

That is very true!  We were not built to beat Bama back then, and were likely to split the LSU games on a year-in, year-out basis.  We have been closer to beating Bama under Bielema than we were under Petrino.  But, yes, it was nice to know that we were likely to win the other 10 games on our schedule.

My biggest issue with Petrino was that his offense had a hard time clicking after the long layoff between the end of the regular season and the bowl game.  We saw it against each of our bowl opponents. 

[GuvHog]

I didn't suspect you would. Hate to break it to you, but for all the aforementioned things I stated CBB is going nowhere anytime soon.

He probably has the next 2 years to get the program turned around and winning 9 games or more. Two more years of 7-6 records would likely cost him his job in my opinion.

[S&W]

He probably has the next 2 years to get the program turned around and winning 9 games or more. Two more years of 7-6 records would likely cost him his job in my opinion.

Yeah but you are of the opinion that weed causes folks to kill so there is that.

[Poker_hog]

Most people do not hold 2013 against him, which is understandable.

I do.  Not that I expected much but he underachieved that year too.  0-8 in the sec should never happen. 

[Hawgar The Horrible]

I do.  Not that I expected much but he underachieved that year too.  0-8 in the sec should never happen.

Chamblee should have said reasonable people. You need to let it go because CBB got a mulligan that season.

[Hawgar The Horrible]

He probably has the next 2 years to get the program turned around and winning 9 games or more. Two more years of 7-6 records would likely cost him his job in my opinion.

8 or more wins this season gets CBB a raise and extension. Prepare yourself.

[Tejano Jawg]

Last year was a step back no matter how you look at it.  LSU and Auburn just don't happen.  We were not prepared for either game period.  This is glaring and next season it must get fixed.

This is how I look at last season—a MAJOR setback. I don't consider Bielema's first season at all. Since then, we've been moving forward. Then...last season...

I wasn't prepared (and a few people here saw it coming) for our o-line to be so inconsistent. And I sure wasn't prepared for what our defense did in our losses.

How would we think of last season if we had just finished the job vs Missouri and vs V Tech? We'd all feel a little better, but there's still that Auburn game—maybe the worst Hog game I've ever watched. Or LSU, which was pretty bad. Or A&M, which was awful, for several reasons. All those make the Alabama loss seem not-so-bad.

We have to take a big step forward this year. And we may have to actually over-achieve a little, just for something different.

[Birminghog]

We could have been a contender..............

+1 for the On the Waterfront homage.

[EastexHawg]

Except not being within 3 td's of two teams in the same division. Could'n score from pretty much anywhere on them, and thus were NOT LEGIT national championship contenders.

Petrino was 2-2 against LSU, including beating one of their really good teams in 2010 in a Sugar Bowl elimination game.  He should have been 3-1 but for probably the most egregious home cooking official's call I have ever seen, when their back was ruled out of bounds to allow them time for the tying field goal despite his knee touching four feet inside the sideline.

He also led #1 Alabama into the fourth quarter before losing a 24-20 heartbreaker.

Do you honestly not remember those seasons, or do you think the rest of us don't? 

[Hawgar The Horrible]

Petrino was 2-2 against LSU, including beating one of their really good teams in 2010 in a Sugar Bowl elimination game.  He should have been 3-1 but for probably the most egregious home cooking official's call I have ever seen, when their back was ruled out of bounds to allow them time for the tying field goal despite his knee touching four feet inside the sideline.

He also led #1 Alabama into the fourth quarter before losing a 24-20 heartbreaker.

Do you honestly not remember those seasons, or do you think the rest of us don't?

Moral victories suddenly count?

[EastexHawg]

Moral victories suddenly count?

I was responding to the claim that our teams back then weren't nearly as good as some of our fans think they were, that we weren't within three TDs of being able to compete with the other good teams in our division.

See, that's what real fans of the program do these days.  They tear down the accomplishments of former Hogs like Ryan Mallett, Knile Davis, Cobi Hamilton, Chris Smith, and Jake Bequette by "pointing out" that they didn't really beat anyone, they just padded their record against weak opposition.  It somehow gives them comfort and satisfaction.

[Hawgar The Horrible]

I was responding to the claim that our teams back then weren't nearly as good as some of our fans think they were, that we weren't within three TDs of being able to compete with the other good teams in our division.

See, that's what real fans of the program do these days.  They tear down the accomplishments of former Hogs like Ryan Mallett, Knile Davis, Cobi Hamilton, Chris Smith, and Jake Bequette by "pointing out" that they didn't really beat anyone, they just padded their record against weak opposition.  It somehow gives them comfort and satisfaction.

That's cool. Just making sure you weren't being a hypocrite by tearing down the accomplishments of the present coach and team.

FAN

[jcbville]

Except not being within 3 td's of two teams in the same division. Could'n score from pretty much anywhere on them, and thus were NOT LEGIT national championship contenders.

Ya this. Look I enjoyed the CBP era for what it was but we weren't sniffing a National Championship. We were never close with Bama etc in his era and we barely hung with others that were below them.

[EastexHawg]

That's cool. Just making sure you weren't being a hypocrite by tearing down the accomplishments of the present coach and team.

Who just mentioned the current coach and team in the context of "tearing them down"? 

It wasn't me. 

[Hawgar The Horrible]

Who just mentioned the current coach and team in the context of "slighting" them? 

It wasn't me.

I did. Due to the fact you don't get a pass for railing against CBB because this is a different thread.

[EastexHawg]

I did. Due to the fact you don't get a pass for railing against CBB because this is a different thread.

I see.  Any time someone talks about the 2010-2011 teams it makes you feel like Coach Bielema needs you to rush to his defense whether he is mentioned or not.  Do you ever ask yourself why that is?

Subconscious, suppressed feelings?

[DeltaBoy]

Never forget Toledo !