Fair and balanced article on Coach B

[monty hawg]

http://www.espn.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/128265/the-curiouscomplicated-case-of-bret-bielema-in-2017

[DeltaBoy]

That is one of the most honest and balanced looks at Coach I ever seen.

[younghog]

Pretty much spot on..

Its what you do with the talent you have not just getting great talent that makes a difference.. Last years last two loss to Mizzou and V-Tech were all on proper execution and leadership. That should not have been questioned in year 4.

GO HOGS

[EastexHawg]

It's pretty easy for people with no ties or real interest in Arkansas football to say, "You can't fire him" after a 10-22 SEC record in four years at the helm.  Why isn't 2017 a make or break year?  Because his supporters think we're headed for another disappointing season and are pre-emptively saying to ignore it and wait (for however long it takes) for him to get everything lined up just right and win more than eight games?  What will that accomplish?  That they will be able to say, "See, we told you so!"  Who was the last Arkansas coach who spent more than five years on the job and didn't win nine or more at least once?

At what point do we stop and consider the opportunity cost of hanging onto a coach who hasn't gotten it done rather than moving on and seeing if someone else can do better?  Nothing occurs in a vacuum.  Every year that one coach is struggling is a year that a better, more innovative coach could have been on the job and building his program.

Yeah, it's easy for people who follow Alabama, Auburn, Ohio State, and Florida State to say, "Arkansas should just be patient with Bielema."  I doubt they would be so patient if their own programs had experienced the same results.

[Poker_hog]

Bert's results here have been a disappointment.  Most coaches would be fired.  He's been given the benefit of doubt because of his success at wisky and his enormous buyout.

[311Hog]

Honestly i think alot of the "wait and see" comes from a few things that we cannot change that people on the outside see as clear as day.

1. We will not hire a coach to top the coaches (or coach) we currently have to compete against in our own division.  This is just a fact. We are not going to do it.  Until Saban leaves or retires it just will not be possible.  The other coaches are "beatable" but it would just be hard to make any sort of impact or improvement because it is Bama who keeps us down.
2. We will not out "recruit" our competition in our own division.  Because of our natural liability in immediate recruiting territory we will never beat our peers in the "stars rankings" can we get good players? yes but we have to do the develop them and system them route.

So to me the later is why people think hog fans should give or could give Coach B a few more years than just 2017.  Hoping that the defense can improve itself enough to go with what has been a fairly effective and dynamic offense.  Coach B's whole approach is the "develop" them plan and you need time and consistency for that.

I want to add a few things.  I believe Ole Mis is returning to their normal spot (below us), and Miss State will be and is in a similar boat to us.  Good coach with basically the same limitations we have.  A&M well they are aggies what more do i need to say, what they do is a total crap shoot, and then there is Auburn.  Gus can't stick around for ever, but the heat of the Bama rivalry will never let one or the other be down for any extended period of time.

[Biggus Piggus]

Yeah, it's easy for people who follow Alabama, Auburn, Ohio State, and Florida State to say, "Arkansas should just be patient with Bielema."  I doubt they would be so patient if their own programs had experienced the same results.

And for some reason, you don't understand that. SMH.

[Tejano Jawg]

It's pretty easy for people with no ties or real interest in Arkansas football to say, "You can't fire him" after a 10-22 SEC record in four years at the helm.  Why isn't 2017 a make or break year?  Because his supporters think we're headed for another disappointing season and are pre-emptively saying to ignore it and wait (for however long it takes) for him to get everything lined up just right and win more than eight games?  What will that accomplish?  That they will be able to say, "See, we told you so!"  Who was the last Arkansas coach who spent more than five years on the job and didn't win nine or more at least once?

At what point do we stop and consider the opportunity cost of hanging onto a coach who hasn't gotten it done rather than moving on and seeing if someone else can do better?  Nothing occurs in a vacuum.  Every year that one coach is struggling is a year that a better, more innovative coach could have been on the job and building his program.

Yeah, it's easy for people who follow Alabama, Auburn, Ohio State, and Florida State to say, "Arkansas should just be patient with Bielema."  I doubt they would be so patient if their own programs had experienced the same results.

Man, I think this is where my head is starting to go.

I have never been down on Bielema (at least, not in the bigger sense). I was okay with the hire, I didn't dislike it, even though it came from left field. I always had good feelings about what he was building at Arkansas. Through the losses of the first 3 years, I was still relatively positive.

HOWEVER, last year really took me by surprise, and not in a good way. I could  have never anticipated that kind of setback. With the exception of the Alabama loss—many aspects of that game were excellent—I have never seen such a string of awful and demoralizing losses. Ever. We either got blown out and embarrassed, or like the last 2, gave up big leads and just disappeared. When those things happen, EVERYTHING should be questioned. Including—and especially—our leadership.

This season, I'm not planning on participating in any "fire BB" campaigns. But nothing can resemble the downturn/nosedive of last year. No lateral moves. We have to take a step forward...or my support will certainly quiet down.

[EastexHawg]

So to me the later is why people think hog fans should give or could give Coach B a few more years than just 2017.  Hoping that the defense can improve itself enough to go with what has been a fairly effective and dynamic offense.  Coach B's whole approach is the "develop" them plan and you need time and consistency for that.

1.  The defense can "improve itself"?  We're paying someone $4 million per year to be responsible for the defense and its assistant coaches...who, by the way, he chose to coach and improve it.  How many mulligans do you typically get on the first hole?

2.  How long does it take to "develop" players?  More than five years?  How does that work?  Are there teams that are exempt from eligibility rules and get to keep and groom their players more than 4-5 years?

The same "disadvantages" have existed for Arkansas for as long as we have been in the SEC.  We didn't just become a small state with fewer than normal D-1 prospects when Bielema took over in late 2012.  Other coaches have faced them and produced better results.  No one, not even Bielema's harshest critic, expects him to overtake Alabama as the premier SEC West program.  But 0-4 against Texas A&M?  1-3 against Auburn, with the average margin of defeat in the losses being 32 points?  1-3 against Mississippi State?  The previous coach was 9-2 against those three opponents.  And, as much as I want to cut off my fingers after typing it, even Gomer Nutt won nine or more games four times.  What did that prove?  I wouldn't hire him to coach a checkers team and apparently every other program in America agrees.

Excuses are like...well, you know the rest of it.

[jgphillips3]

This is the year.  If CBB has the team looking sharp and wins at least 9 games while not getting our doors blown off in the others, we will see solid ground form and he will be here a long time.  If he wins 8 or fewer and there are more head scratching losses and glaring team deficiencies, then he is coaching for his life in 2018.  I did not like the hire when it was made but he has impressed me as a human being and, given the buyout, I'm willing to be patient until the end of 2018 but that's it.  He has 2 years to convince a fan base that had its faith shattered in the final two games last year that he can be anything but mediocre.  Hopefully, he does.  Otherwise, back to the drawing board.

[Letsroll1200]

Two years before Bielema arrived, Arkansas won 11 games and got to No. 3 in the BCS rankings.

[Biggus Piggus]

Two years before Bielema arrived, Arkansas won 11 games and got to No. 3 in the BCS rankings.

Any discussion of past bargains with the devil should include the penalty phase of said bargain.

[SemperFi]

Good article and I thought it was fair and impartial. I don't believe that 2017 will be a season that will make or break Coach B, but instead as the article suggested will identify what kind of coach he is and more importantly where our program is headed. Despite the fact that we're rebuilding our Receiving Corps there is some very good, high level talent there that can make the question mark disappear. It is about the wins despite all the good the man has done during his time here and I think that we'll see Coach B get over the hump and put us firmly into the conversation of an SECC.....I'll hold out on the NC talk until we win an SECC.

[EastexHawg]

And for some reason, you don't understand that. SMH.

I understand that until the last few years we had reasonable success against Auburn and played Ohio State off their feet in the Sugar Bowl.  While some people are standing at the bottom or the mountain marveling at how unlikely and difficult the ascent might be others are busy climbing it.  Will they all make it to the top?  No, but at least they didn't give up before they tried.

I'm not saying our coaches are giving up.  I'm talking about pundits and some of our fans.  Again, no one I know of is claiming Arkansas should rule the college football world, but there is a lot of ground that could be gained between toppling Alabama and going 10-22 in conference over four years.

[311Hog]

1.  The defense can "improve itself"?  We're paying someone $4 million per year to be responsible for the defense and its assistant coaches...who, by the way, he chose to coach and improve it.  How many mulligans do you typically get on the first hole?

2.  How long does it take to "develop" players?  More than five years?  How does that work?  Are there teams that are exempt from eligibility rules and get to keep and groom their players more than 4-5 years?

The same "disadvantages" have existed for Arkansas for as long as we have been in the SEC.  We didn't just become a small state with fewer than normal D-1 prospects when Bielema took over in late 2012.  Other coaches have faced them and produced better results.  No one, not even Bielema's harshest critic, expects him to overtake Alabama as the premier SEC West program.  But 0-4 against Texas A&M?  1-3 against Auburn, with the average margin of defeat in the losses being 32 points?  1-3 against Mississippi State?  The previous coach was 9-2 against those three opponents.  And, as much as I want to cut off my fingers after typing it, even Gomer Nutt won nine or more games four times.  What did that prove?  I wouldn't hire him to coach a checkers team and apparently every other program in America agrees.

Excuses are like...well, you know the rest of it.

No one is saying there isn't disappointment, but trying to compare now to then is a pointless activity.  The SEC now is not the SEC then.

Also you have to factor in the "Arkansas Jesus" scenario.  Unless AR produces a transcendent player or players then the Hog football team has no chance. (Historically speaking).  Unless you get a Dmac or a Mallett, or a Matt Jones.  Your best possible hope is a winning season and possibly a bowl win.

The fact or the matter is no matter who the coach is the Hogs rise and fall with instate talent.  If it is exceptional we "might" challenge, if it is avg. to above avg. we probably won't. 

The only thing i will add to this is the very real fact that if we fail to find a coach of the pedigree of a Bieliema or that ilk we all have seen how far and how fast Hog football can fall.

basically the hold on to Beilema a little while longer, but if it is another collapse like last year you might want to start praying that an amazing coach magically appears.

[rljjr]

Fair article. As for me, if you can't see he's rebuilding the program the right way I don't know what to do for you. It takes time to get all of the pieces put together. I'm firmly behind this program, including the coach. I'm keenly watching the upcoming recruiting class (which is off to a great start), excited about the switch to the 3-4 and Rhodes ability, and the offensive line which is the key to our offensive progress. If it were up to me, I'd give BB at least 3 more years. I have a feeling we'll all be happy with the results on the field this year.

[Biggus Piggus]

Also you have to factor in the "Arkansas Jesus" scenario.  Unless AR produces a transcendent player or players then the Hog football team has no chance. (Historically speaking).  Unless you get a Dmac or a Mallett, or a Matt Jones.  Your best possible hope is a winning season and possibly a bowl win.

This. Sheer genius.

[PorkRinds]

From the article:

Consider: The state of Arkansas has produced 12 ESPN 300 players since Bielema was hired by the Razorbacks. The state of Florida had 49 in the 2017 class.

That pretty well sums it up.

[hawgsalot]

Two years before Bielema arrived, Arkansas won 11 games and got to No. 3 in the BCS rankings.

With a coach that beat 2 teams with a winning SEC record those years, much has changed in the West my friend.

[hogcard1964]

Bret's results here have been a disappointment.  Most coaches would be fired.  He's been given the benefit of doubt because of his success at wisky and his enormous buyout.

+1000

He will remain here for the unforeseeable future because of that sole reason.

[hogcard1964]

Two years before Bielema arrived, Arkansas won 11 games and got to No. 3 in the BCS rankings.

You're not going to see that again.

[bphi11ips]

Does anyone else see the potential for another 2013 disaster this year?

I'm one of those Razorback-red-colored glasses people who can usually find 10 wins this time of year.  And they're not usually hard to find. This year I see 3 automatic wins, about 3 more tossups, and 6 that we're likely to lose. Two of the tossups come late when we may have folded the tent.  We simply don't seem to have the players on defense to defend SEC offenses. Scheme is irrelevant.

Maybe the offense will jell quickly. Austin Allen and the running backs give reason for hope. The receiving corps is the question. Who will Allen trust?  Can he establish timing with the JUCOs early?  Can he stay off his back?

If Bielema can win 6 with his personnel and schedule he will have earned his salary.  If he wins 3 again?  2017 could be a break year.

[Kevin]

unless off field trouble, or players start leaving in mass numbers, cbb will not be fired.

[hogcard1964]

Does anyone else see the potential for another 2013 disaster this year?

No, we have at least 6 automatic wins on the schedule.

[hawgsalot]

1.  The defense can "improve itself"?  We're paying someone $4 million per year to be responsible for the defense and its assistant coaches...who, by the way, he chose to coach and improve it.  How many mulligans do you typically get on the first hole?

2.  How long does it take to "develop" players?  More than five years?  How does that work?  Are there teams that are exempt from eligibility rules and get to keep and groom their players more than 4-5 years?

The same "disadvantages" have existed for Arkansas for as long as we have been in the SEC.  We didn't just become a small state with fewer than normal D-1 prospects when Bielema took over in late 2012.  Other coaches have faced them and produced better results.  No one, not even Bielema's harshest critic, expects him to overtake Alabama as the premier SEC West program.  But 0-4 against Texas A&M?  1-3 against Auburn, with the average margin of defeat in the losses being 32 points?  1-3 against Mississippi State?  The previous coach was 9-2 against those three opponents.  And, as much as I want to cut off my fingers after typing it, even Gomer Nutt won nine or more games four times.  What did that prove?  I wouldn't hire him to coach a checkers team and apparently every other program in America agrees.

Excuses are like...well, you know the rest of it.

Petrino years
Aubby  35-17 which 14 wins came in one year
MSU     26-25
A&M     26-25

CBB
Aubby 35-18 much better year in year out vs one great year
MSU   32-20
A&M   33-19

Of those you listed all 3 are world better in CBB years than Petrino's.  For some reason you left out LSU, Petrino never beat them when they were good, never beat Aubby and lost to Nutt what 2 or 3 times at ole piss when they sucked?

[HF#1]

It is absolutely a make or break year for Bielema.

[hogcard1964]

It is absolutely a make or break year for Bielema.

How so?

[hawginbigd1]

From the article:

Consider: The state of Arkansas has produced 12 ESPN 300 players since Bielema was hired by the Razorbacks. The state of Florida had 49 in the 2017 class.

That pretty well sums it up.

This is part of it, the 11 and 12 recruiting misses are still being overcome along with the rest of the damage done to the program in that time frame. BB has made mistakes and lost games we shouldn't have lost, but to this point it has not been that damaging to himself or the program. The 2 collapses sting from last year, and the Toledo loss before that have put a chink in the armor. All of that said, if you are objective you realize that the West is the best it has ever been top to bottom during his tenure, and an objective person understands this. BB needs to show improvements in 17 and going forward, and IMO he has collected the best roster of talent top to bottom we have ever had, and things are going to be good. If you think he should be fired or on the hot seat you aren't very knowledgeable about football, or you have an agenda.

[HF#1]

How so?

Overall record? Lack of substantial progress on the field.

[HF#1]

Bielema even knows this is a make or break year. Thus the desperate move to the 3-4

[ricepig]

Two years before Bielema arrived, Arkansas won 11 games and got to No. 3 in the BCS rankings.

Yeah, college football sucked back then.......

[hogcard1964]

Overall record? Lack of substantial progress on the field.

...won't matter. 

As long as he stays clean off the field, unlike someone else, he'll always have a job here.

...at least as long as J.L. is still employed here.

[Kevin]

...won't matter. 

As long as he stays clean off the field, unlike someone else, he'll always have a job here.

...at least as long as J.L. is still employed here.

this

[ricepig]

...won't matter. 

As long as he stays clean off the field, unlike someone else, he'll always have a job here.

...at least as long as J.L. is still employed here.

And that's for a very "Long" time, if he chooses to stay.

[hogsanity]

Yeah, it's easy for people who follow Alabama, Auburn, Ohio State, and Florida State to say, "Arkansas should just be patient with Bielema."  I doubt they would be so patient if their own programs had experienced the same results.

Because recently, and for 2 of those three for decades, those teams have routinely won more than 8 games per season. Arkansas, in my 47 season of life has won more than 8 a total of 17 times, with 5 of those 17 belonging to Hatfield. The only coach to average more than 8 wins per season in that span was Hatfield, and many will claim his #'s were inflated by playing in a dying SWC.

I do not contend that another coach will not come here and win more than 8 in a season, maybe even average more than that. My question is and has been: Why do so many posters here think that winning more than 8 should be the norm here when it has not been the norm for at least the last 50 years?

[Piglet Dispersion Syndrome]

Good article. In summary, it's "who the heck knows what to expect" with Arkansas football.

[hogcard1964]

And that's for a very "Long" time, if he chooses to stay.

+1000

He's here for a long time.  Deal with it.

[HF#1]

...won't matter. 

As long as he stays clean off the field, unlike someone else, he'll always have a job here.

...at least as long as J.L. is still employed here.

Another 6-6 or 7-6 season, he's done. Mark it down. Put this in your signature.

[Kevin]

Another 6-6 or 7-6 season, he's done. Mark it down. Put this in your signature.

no way, unless he decides to leave

[ricepig]

+1000

He's here for a long time.  Deal with it.

I have no problem with it, nothing to deal with.

[HF#1]

no way

way.

[Pork Twain]

Every coach Arkansas has ever had or ever will have, dreams of an in-state class like CBP had in his first year.  If only he would have been able to build on the success it brought him...that and staying off Harleys.

[HF#1]

8 wins gets Bielema another year. 9 or more will get him an extension.

[hog19911]

Petrino years
Aubby  35-17 which 14 wins came in one year
MSU     26-25
A&M     26-25

CBB
Aubby 35-18 much better year in year out vs one great year
MSU   32-20
A&M   33-19

Of those you listed all 3 are world better in CBB years than Petrino's.  For some reason you left out LSU, Petrino never beat them when they were good, never beat Aubby and lost to Nutt what 2 or 3 times at ole piss when they sucked?

What are you talking about? Some of what you said is just complete revisionist history.

You say he never beat LSU when they were good yet when we beat them in 2010 the two teams were playing for a Sugar bowl birth.

You say he never beat Auburn but he beat them 3 out of 4 years and convincingly so. The one year we lost they won the National championship and had Can Newton.

You say he we lost 2 or 3 times to Nutt and they were terrible. Well first off, we lost twice and both were in Petrinos first two years. And I believe Ole Miss won 9 games in both of Nutts first two years. Somewhat ironic that you claimed they sucked yet in year 5 we're still waiting on BB's first 9 win season.

[hogsanity]

Two years before Bielema arrived, Arkansas won 11 games and got to No. 3 in the BCS rankings.

South Florida and Boston College were both ranked NUMBER 1 in the BCS rankings once upon a time too, does not mean that is the norm for those programs any more than reaching #3 meant that was/should be the norm for this program.

[Letsroll1200]

Yeah, college football sucked back then.......

At least that's what they say!! 

[HF#1]

At some point Bielema has to move the needle. Another 6-7 win season doesn't move the needle.

[hogcard1964]

Another 6-6 or 7-6 season, he's done. Mark it down. Put this in your signature.

I think you're comingling what should be done, with what will be done.

He could literally have another disastrous season like he did in 2012 or last season, and he'd still be allowed to remain here.

Btw, if he somehow miraculously wins 10+ next season, he'd probably be given another insane extension and buyout.

[HF#1]

I think you're comingling what should be done, with what will be done.

He could literally have another disastrous season like he did in 2012 or last season, and he'd still be allowed to remain here.

Btw, if he somehow miraculously wins 10+ next season, he'd probably be given another insane extension and buyout.

The premise that Jeff Long will not fire someone as long as everything is morally correct off the field is false.

[ricepig]

8 wins gets Bielema another year. 9 or more will get him an extension.

He's back for 2018, unless he leaves on his own.