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In your opinion, what went wrong?

Started by Sho Nuff, November 21, 2017, 12:53:21 pm

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Sho Nuff

Besides losing too many games, what went wrong with Brett?  He seemed to be on the right track until the last 2 games of last year.  This year has been a train wreck.  I understand that we have experienced an inordinate of injuries to key players.  However, we looked bad at the very beginning of the season.  What do you think happened that caused us to spiral downward?

Boardon Hamsay

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HF#1

"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."  <br /><br />Benjamin Franklin

hogsanity

Never dreamed it would be so hard to recruit in the SEC. Had no idea how little in state talent he would have to work with. Never dreamed he would not be able to get one legit SEC lb.

Pretty much the same thing that happened to the program when it entered the sec. They never dreamed how hard it was going to be to get the talent to recruit.

Once BB saw how lacking they were at certain spots, he panicked, hoping Enos could fix the offense, and that somehow going to the 3-4 would fix the defense.

He was done when the 14 and 15 OL classes were busts. 
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

idochog

I love Jesus!

HF#1

From a purely football stand point, it is a trail of errors that caused him to not produce. Coaching decisions, assistant turnover, and recruiting blunders.
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."  <br /><br />Benjamin Franklin

Wildhog

Awful OL recruiting/planning.

If we had a good OL, we're not talking about Bielema getting fired right now.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

Calling All Hogs

Letting the O-Line go from a source of strength to a major weakness.

SooieGeneris

Pittman leaving two years ago was big! Anderson has been a disaster and for some reason, BB didn't address said disaster..
KJ Jefferson, one of only 2 QBs in UA history to go 2-0 in Bowl Games..

Mac attack: McAdoo & McGlothern co-winners of the Thorpe Award 2023?

mhsbc59

Quote from: idochog on November 21, 2017, 01:04:12 pm
gaining 100+ lbs = LAZY

Gaining weight can also be a side effect of stress.  To call a fat person lazy is ignorant and also lazy.
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SemperHawg

The game changed around him... People keep referring to what he he runs as a pro style offense. Have you watched a pro game lately?  They are even spreading the field and throwing it 30 plus times a game.  The running back position means less and less as we go at all levels of the game.  When he isn't running that kind of scheme it takes him out of almost any H.S. on the I-30 corridor in East Texas, and that is an area that has been vital to our success in recent history.  Couple that with not doing as well as he should in state recruiting (and by as well as he should I mean getting 95% of the top end in state guys)  and you get what we have here.  People point to the problems with the O-Line, again a style of play issue, kids these days have now played 4 or 5 years in a hurry up spread type of offense and are trying to learn a completely new technique.

I also think this leads to his lapses in judgement in talent evaluation.

I'm not saying he can't be successful somewhere else, but I do think it will take a complete re evaluation of what he puts on the field, and I just wonder if there is too much hubris there to make that change?

WaltonCollege

People could never get or spell his name right, like in the OP. You can say it was over before it began.

311Hog

Had to be the OL failure after Pittman left.  I have always wondered why Froholdt was moved to OL.  I mean the guy was a major DL recruit and after 1 year he is switched, I mean he shows flashes of real greatness for an OL, but already with such little experience with football in general and then to throw him into the fire like that is head scratching.

 

Tim Harris

Moving on from Chaney which cost us Pittman which lead to our offensive line being a weakness instead of a strength.


STLhawg

Quote from: hogsanity on November 21, 2017, 01:03:09 pm
Pretty much the same thing that happened to the program when it entered the sec. They never dreamed how hard it was going to be to get the talent to recruit.
Not sure I am buying that.  We have had more (on the field) success, while in the SEC, under two different coaches.  We are usually around the top 25 in recruiting so things (team talent wise) aren't as horrible as you make them out to be.  Under BB we loose to teams quite regularly that recruit worse than we do. 

So the real issue is that BB thought he was A LOT better coach than he really is.  It is clear now that most of his success at Wisconsin can be attributed to Barry A. and Paul C.

311Hog

Quote from: STLhawg on November 21, 2017, 01:15:05 pm
Not sure I am buying that.  We have had more (on the field) success, while in the SEC, under two different coaches.  We are usually around the top 25 in recruiting so things (team talent wise) aren't as horrible as you make them out to be.  Under BB we loose to teams quite regularly that recruit worse than we do. 

So the real issue is that BB thought he was A LOT better coach than he really is.  It is clear now that most of his success at Wisconsin can be attributed to Barry A. and Paul C.

His point is that virtually everyone in our conference out recruits us.

007 License To Squeal

He miscalculated what it takes to be successful in the SEC.....in several ways....
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HF#1

Don't underestimate the partying thing. It's real.
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."  <br /><br />Benjamin Franklin

hogsanity

Quote from: STLhawg on November 21, 2017, 01:15:05 pm
Not sure I am buying that.  We have had more (on the field) success, while in the SEC, under two different coaches.  We are usually around the top 25 in recruiting so things (team talent wise) aren't as horrible as you make them out to be.  Under BB we loose to teams quite regularly that recruit worse than we do. 

So the real issue is that BB thought he was A LOT better coach than he really is.  It is clear now that most of his success at Wisconsin can be attributed to Barry A. and Paul C.

Again, recruiting 25th would be great if there were not 8-10 teams in our own league ranked higher in recruiting every year. Couple that with the complete disintegration of the OL play and they were doomed.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

007 License To Squeal

Quote from: hogsanity on November 21, 2017, 01:03:09 pm
Never dreamed it would be so hard to recruit in the SEC. Had no idea how little in state talent he would have to work with. Never dreamed he would not be able to get one legit SEC lb.

Pretty much the same thing that happened to the program when it entered the sec. They never dreamed how hard it was going to be to get the talent to recruit.

Once BB saw how lacking they were at certain spots, he panicked, hoping Enos could fix the offense, and that somehow going to the 3-4 would fix the defense.

He was done when the 14 and 15 OL classes were busts. 

I don't think Costal Carolina out recruited us.....There is much more to success in the SEC than recruiting.  BB failed to properly evaluate, utilize, and develop the talent he was able to recruit.
******Proud Member of Hogville.net since May 22, 2003, 08:17:38 PM*******

Uncommon


Seebs

Frankly, the coddling of the players and not hitting as much as we are allowed to hit in August. We are soft and weak when facing game situations. Did you see the pillows on the lineman's helmets this past August?

I know the CTE stuff is front and center, but we are soft and when we get hit we squish.
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Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: hogsanity on November 21, 2017, 01:18:38 pm
Again, recruiting 25th would be great if there were not 8-10 teams in our own league ranked higher in recruiting every year. Couple that with the complete disintegration of the OL play and they were doomed.

Agree, but the point that he's a mediocre HC is seemingly valid.  Marginal recruiting AND coaching is a deadly combination.

Undoubtedly, though, the OL recruiting the last few cycles has been a disaster.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

HogFan219

The O-line went down the tubes, and AA never developed quite like his brother did. The defense was hot mess more often than not. I think BB underestimated the SEC and the speed of the other teams in the conference, and he didn't appreciate how much speed, not just power, is needed at every position to compete every week.

 

PorkRinds

Quote from: Wildhog on November 21, 2017, 01:05:13 pm
Awful OL recruiting/planning.

If we had a good OL, we're not talking about Bielema getting fired right now.

Bottom line facts. Defense didn't help.

Hogimus Prime

Pittman leaving/OLine not developing like they should have.  Everything BB does is predicated on the OLine.   

Calvin Swine

-Brett moved into a division where the margin for error is slim to none.
-Being too much of a CEO coach/buddy to the players and for the program.
-Horrendous inability to make adjustments at the half.
-Not instilling mental toughness.  Adversity rears it's head and the team folded 9 out of 10 times.
-Not recruiting the speed needed to compete in this league.
-Little emphasis on recruiting Texas.
-Sam Pittman's departure.

Bubba's Bruisers

BB almost seems like a dinosaur.  Deep down he simply wants to win through brute strength IMO.  It's why they never seemed to fully commit to more of a spread system even though they started signing OL under Enos (post Pitman) supposedly to fit more of a spread system.  Still, we lined up a bunch in tight sets wanting to cram it down someone's throat to no avail of course. 
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

Uncommon

Quote from: Wildhog on November 21, 2017, 01:05:13 pm
Awful OL recruiting/planning.

If we had a good OL, we're not talking about Bielema getting fired right now.
I've never gotten why offensive line play was put as Bielema's thing by the media.  Offensive line play is WISCONSIN's thing.  Bielema has never coached an offensive line in his life.  How would he know the ins and outs of it.  I'm not saying he shouldn't be held responsible.  Just saying I don't get why he was identified as an offensive line guru.

Tim Harris

Quote from: Uncommon on November 21, 2017, 01:33:02 pm
I've never gotten why offensive line play was put as Bielema's thing by the media.  Offensive line play is WISCONSIN's thing.  Bielema has never coached an offensive line in his life.  How would he know the ins and outs of it.  I'm not saying he shouldn't be held responsible.  Just saying I don't get why he was identified as an offensive line guru.

He made it a big deal when he talked about them flying first class and put them on the cover of the media guide.

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: PorkRinds on November 21, 2017, 01:28:18 pm
Defense didn’t help.

It rarely does.  Seemingly like 90% of all D1 programs.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

hogsanity

Quote from: Bubba's Bruisers on November 21, 2017, 01:34:57 pm
It rarely does.  Seemingly like 90% of all D1 programs.


and Arkansas is like about 40 other p5 teams. Usually going to be around 7-8 wins, will have some years with fewer and also have a year every now and then when they jump up to 9 or better.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

NaturalStateReb

Quote from: Sho Nuff on November 21, 2017, 12:53:21 pm
Besides losing too many games, what went wrong with Brett?  He seemed to be on the right track until the last 2 games of last year.  This year has been a train wreck.  I understand that we have experienced an inordinate of injuries to key players.  However, we looked bad at the very beginning of the season.  What do you think happened that caused us to spiral downward?

Here are some factors:

1.  Was Never Able to Recruit Texas--Recruiting Texas has always been important to Arkansas' success, but the importance of getting talent from the Lone Star State has been higher than normal since Arkansas high schools didn't produce many high level D-1 prospects during Bielema's tenure.  Unfortunately, Bielema and his staff never were able to make significant headway recruiting East Texas.  There may be a series of reasons for this.  Several area schools had improved to historically high levels, increasing competition, such as Baylor, TCU, Oklahoma State, and Texas A&M entered the league.  The staff never really had any Texas recruiters on it.  Still, other SEC West teams were able to pull out some key Texas talent, and the University of Texas was in the middle of a historic low in football.  Arguably, having Texas A&M in the league should have helped Arkansas more than other SEC teams due to the annual Dallas game and geographic proximity.  Whatever the reasons for or against, Bielema just never was able to make inroads in Texas on the recruiting trail, and team quality suffered.

2.  Staff Turnvoer--football coaches are by nature a nomadic lot, but turnover is a problem that followed Bielema to Arkansas from Wisconsin.  Bielema blamed the turnover at Wisconsin on Barry Alvarez's penny pinching nature, but that clearly wasn't the entire story.  Bielema has had about a dozen coaches come and go during his tenure at Arkansas.  Some left for better jobs, some didn't, but they all have one thing in common--they didn't stick around along.  Arguably the earlier staffs at Arkansas had better talent, as Bielema's waning fortunes probably made luring better coaches to the staff more difficult.  It may be that Bielema isn't that easy to work for.  Every time an assistant leaves, the recruiting relationships that assistant fosters is damaged, sometimes fatally.

3.  Opponent Quality--The SEC West isn't an easy place to win, and during Bielema's years, all of the SEC West teams experienced significant success.  Every SEC West opponent--every single one of them--made a BCS bowl game during Bielema's tenure at Arkansas.  Even when you win, the weekly grind is tough, and with the chronic lack of depth, that grind can tell.  Fans may turn up their noses at 8-win seasons, but the West has been pretty brutal during the Bielema years. 

4.  Lack of Team Speed--in the SEC, speed kills, and Arkansas has been hurting for speed for a while.  This team basically looks like an 8-game winner in the Big 10, not the SEC.  Bielema's power game hasn't really panned out much at Arkansas.  Arkansas hasn't ever really had breakaway speed on the outside during Bielema's entire tenure, the power game only worked reliably when the Hogs had Alex Collins and a line that could open holes up the middle.  Quicker SEC D-linemen have been able to consistently beat Arkanasas' slower O-linemen in the pass rush since Sam Pittman left. 

"It's a trap!"--Houston Nutt and Admiral Ackbar, although Ackbar never called that play or ate that frito pie.

Uncommon

Quote from: Tim Harris on November 21, 2017, 01:34:50 pm
He made it a big deal when he talked about them flying first class and put them on the cover of the media guide.
I don't think that makes him a guru.  I just think he wanted to place a big importance on it.  Which turned out to be false when you look at the low numbers they've signed on the offensive line.

NaturalStateReb

Quote from: hogsanity on November 21, 2017, 01:18:38 pm
Again, recruiting 25th would be great if there were not 8-10 teams in our own league ranked higher in recruiting every year. Couple that with the complete disintegration of the OL play and they were doomed.

That also assumes (a) that these rankings are anything at all approaching scientific; and, (b), that there is a significant difference between having the 25th best class and, say, the 17th best class.  I'm not really sure either one of those things are especially true.  I do think other coaches got more out of somewhat similar groups of players, particularly over the last 3 seasons.
"It's a trap!"--Houston Nutt and Admiral Ackbar, although Ackbar never called that play or ate that frito pie.

moses_007

He has tried to be best buddy to the guys, and a coach just can't do that.  He's got to be the boss and rip them anew when they screw up. He is clearly to soft to be a football coach. 

Kevin

slacked off on disciplined
made bad position coaching hires
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.<br />James 4:7
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Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: hogsanity on November 21, 2017, 01:37:19 pm
and Arkansas is like about 40 other p5 teams. Usually going to be around 7-8 wins, will have some years with fewer and also have a year every now and then when they jump up to 9 or better.

Yes, which wasn't achievable with BB, IMO. 

A program always has to strive to improve even if the odds are stacked against it.  Even if the moves made in an attempt to improve are ultimately proven to be bad ones.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

NaturalStateReb

Quote from: moses_007 on November 21, 2017, 01:41:24 pm
He has tried to be best buddy to the guys, and a coach just can't do that.  He's got to be the boss and rip them anew when they screw up. He is clearly to soft to be a football coach. 

I heard Rick Neuheisel talk about "tough coaching" the other day on the radio and it was really interesting.  His take was that you can be tough on guys when you have the talent and they don't perform.  You can't be tough on guys when they don't really have the talent, because if you do, they're never going to consistently perform at a high level and their performance will just spiral because they know they can never meet expectations. 
"It's a trap!"--Houston Nutt and Admiral Ackbar, although Ackbar never called that play or ate that frito pie.

oldhog63

Quote from: HF#1 on November 21, 2017, 01:16:56 pm
Don't underestimate the partying thing. It's real.
Also, don't underestimate the effect playing favorites has on the morale of a team.

Cylinder

He did not have anyone overseeing his work as he did at Wisconsin.

HF#1

Quote from: oldhog63 on November 21, 2017, 01:45:54 pm
Also, don't underestimate the effect playing favorites has on the morale of a team.

Yes.
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."  <br /><br />Benjamin Franklin

GuvHog

Quote from: hogsanity on November 21, 2017, 01:03:09 pm
Never dreamed it would be so hard to recruit in the SEC. Had no idea how little in state talent he would have to work with. Never dreamed he would not be able to get one legit SEC lb.

Pretty much the same thing that happened to the program when it entered the sec. They never dreamed how hard it was going to be to get the talent to recruit.

Once BB saw how lacking they were at certain spots, he panicked, hoping Enos could fix the offense, and that somehow going to the 3-4 would fix the defense.

He was done when the 14 and 15 OL classes were busts. 

Bret also never accepted the fact that running a Big 10 offense doesn't work in the SEC.

The 2014 and 2015 defensive classes weren't very good either. If he had gotten several more players as talented as Sosa Agim, the defense might have been much better this year.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

Pecos Hog

Had Bret ever taken a beat down like we had last year by Auburn?   Aint' been the same since.

HF#1

Quote from: GuvHog on November 21, 2017, 01:49:51 pm
Bret also never accepted the fact that running a Big 10 offense doesn't work in the SEC.

It could have worked but he couldn't keep the right coaches here. Maybe not to the scale of winning 9 or 10 games but it could have worked well enough to keep him off the hot seat. After Pittman left, the wheels came off.
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."  <br /><br />Benjamin Franklin

NaturalStateReb

Quote from: GuvHog on November 21, 2017, 01:49:51 pm
Bret also never accepted the fact that running a Big 10 offense doesn't work in the SEC.

The 2014 and 2015 defensive classes weren't very good either.

Any offense will work if you have the personnel.  He never had the personnel.
"It's a trap!"--Houston Nutt and Admiral Ackbar, although Ackbar never called that play or ate that frito pie.

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: HF#1 on November 21, 2017, 01:51:45 pm
It could have worked but he couldn't keep the right coaches here. Maybe not to the scale of winning 9 or 10 games but it could have worked well enough to keep him off the hot seat. After Pittman left, the wheels came off.

The wheels may have come off anyway, as I suspect Pitman left because of the Enos hire and the subsequent transition to more of a spread system requiring a different type of OL recruit.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

HF#1

Quote from: Bubba's Bruisers on November 21, 2017, 01:54:03 pm
The wheels may have come off anyway, as I suspect Pitman left because of the Enos hire and the subsequent transition to more of a spread system requiring a different type of OL recruit.

You may be right. However, those last 6 games of 2015, we were pretty decent offensively. Granted it took us 6 games to get going but once it clicked, we were on fire offensively.
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."  <br /><br />Benjamin Franklin

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: HF#1 on November 21, 2017, 01:58:30 pm
You may be right. However, those last 6 games of 2015, we were pretty decent offensively. Granted it took us 6 games to get going but once it clicked, we were on fire offensively.

Yes, 5th year SR QB with NFL talent, experience OL, and lot's of talented skill players.  Unfortunately, we don't have that anymore.  And I'm calling it now...CK ain't nobody's franchise QB.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

moses_007

Quote from: NaturalStateReb on November 21, 2017, 01:44:17 pm
I heard Rick Neuheisel talk about "tough coaching" the other day on the radio and it was really interesting.  His take was that you can be tough on guys when you have the talent and they don't perform.  You can't be tough on guys when they don't really have the talent, because if you do, they're never going to consistently perform at a high level and their performance will just spiral because they know they can never meet expectations. 
Well Petrino wouldn't agree with that.  CBP was always in a player's face, just like Saban is, when they screw up. 

When have you ever seen Bielema do any coaching on the sideline during a game?  I haven't seen it once in his five seasons.

He comes to work in flip-flops, dressed like a bum, and doesn't shave.  Not a good role model for any player.

No wonder he's a total failure.