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How has a lower tier school like Miss St had more success than Arkansas lately?

Started by Sweet Feet, September 20, 2017, 01:27:00 pm

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GunnerHawg70

Quote from: Wildhog on September 20, 2017, 02:24:42 pm
I think people forget what MSU was before he got there.



HBC Croom!!! Loved the guy and felt bad watching him lose on a consistent basis but boy was MSU a rolling dumpster fire!!!

GoHogs1091

Quote from: rickfahr on September 20, 2017, 02:02:15 pm
I don't think we want any part of ASU at the moment, and before everyone laughs -- ASU just thought it wanted some of UCA last year.

It would be a HUGE game for both fan bases. Hottest ticket of the year without question.

Blake Anderson got out-coached by UCA's Steve Campbell.

There may be some out there who may not know that Campbell used to coach in the SEC.  He coached at Mississippi State with Jackie Sherrill.  Campbell is building UCA's lines of scrimmage to be not your typical FCS lines of scrimmage.

 

casken

"The human capacity to know the good and the right is distorted by the human will to fulfill desire."-Dallas Willard

b-ash

Why are they considered lower tier than Arkansas?  I was born in Arkansas and spent the first 21 years there, but I never considered them lower tier than us. 

razorbackfaninar

Dan Mullen's overall record is a little misleading.  These are all of his wins going back to 2008.  Arguably his best conference win is against us when we were 5-3 in conference.  The rest of his conference wins since 2008 are against teams with a losing or even conference records.   If you take away the non-conference wins, here is who he has beaten since 2008:  Arkansas (x3), Vanderbilt (x2), Kentucky (x7), Ole Miss (x4), Texas A&M (x2) South Carolina(x1) LSU (x1) Auburn (x2).  You can look at the list below. There are wins there, but there aren't many quality wins to be found.  Of course he's doing it at State so perhaps he should get some credit for that.

2008: 4/12:  SLL, Middle Tennessee, Arkansas (2-6 in SEC) 

2009: 5/12:  Jackson State, Vanderbilt, Middle Tennessee, Kentucky, Ole Miss (4-4 in conference)

2010: 9/13:  Memphis, Georgia (3-5 in SEC play), Alcorn State, Houston, Florida (4-4 in SEC play), Kentucky, Ole Miss (1/7 in conference Wins over Kentucky), Michigan (7-6, 3-5 in Big 10)

2011: 7/13:  Memphis, LA Tech, UAB, Kentucky, UT Martin, Ole Miss (0-8 in conference)

2012: 8/13: Jackson State, Auburn (0-8 in sec play), Troy, South Alabama, Kentucky, Tennessee (1-7 in conference play) Arkansas (2-6 in conference)

2013:  7/13:  Alcorn State, Troy, Bowling Green, Kentucky, Arkansas (0-8 in conference), Ole Miss (3-5 in conference), Rice

2014: 10/13:  Southern Miss, UAB, South Alabama, LSU(4-4 in SEC), Texas A&M (3-5 in SEC), Auburn (4-4 in SEC), Kentucky, Arkansas (2-6 in SEC play), UT Martin, Vanderbilt 

2015:  9/13:  Southern Miss, Northwestern Demons, Auburn (2-6 in SEC play), Troy, Louisiana Tech, Kentucky, Missouri (1-7 in conference), Arkansas (5-3 in conference play), NC State

2016:  6/13:  South Carolina (3-5 in sec play), UMASS, Samford, Texas A&M (4-4 in SEC play), Ole Miss (2-6 in conference play), Miami of Ohio

elviscat

MSU, will compete for the West championship, they are that good. They destroyed LSU in ever phase of the game. They will beat Arkansas this year.

razorbackfaninar

Quote from: elviscat on September 20, 2017, 03:47:33 pm
MSU, will compete for the West championship, they are that good. They destroyed LSU in ever phase of the game. They will beat Arkansas this year.

I think it's probably a bit premature to say that until we know exactly how good or bad LSU actually is.  The SEC west is as bad as I have seen it in a while.  Auburn, Arkansas, Ole Miss, LSU, Texas A&M all have major issues so they could, but my guess is that that game was more about LSU not being very good than it was about Mississippi State being all that great.   



BrianG

Quote from: 311Hog on September 20, 2017, 02:09:45 pm
no hog player, coach, or fan would give two shites about the Red Indian Wolfs.
S
i wouldn't even watch it on tv.  I couldn't imagine being a player trying to get up for that game.

Lol...idiot!  You better believe the players will get up for and they better cause stAte's players will.  Should we win ...with money put into this program we better but don't think it would not be a dog fight.  Give them some of the advantages we have and you better look out.  They have done more with less while our beloved athletic dept has done less with more.  Dollar for dollar the football program is kicking our ass.  Remember we should be competitive with schools who spend like we do...We aren't.  They are more than competitive with schools that spend like them.. Thumb your stupid ass nose all you want...be superior but I wish we had the success in our circle like they have had in theirs.  Dang I hate a moron!
.

BrianG

 :D
Quote from: GoHogs1091 on September 20, 2017, 02:59:16 pm
Blake Anderson got out-coached by UCA's Steve Campbell.

There may be some out there who may not know that Campbell used to coach in the SEC.  He coached at Mississippi State with Jackie Sherrill.  Campbell is building UCA's lines of scrimmage to be not your typical FCS lines of scrimmage.

Lol..Yeah he did.  Thing is I think he learned something.  This zombie we have never learns.

gchamblee

Quote from: GunnerHawg70 on September 20, 2017, 02:11:07 pm
GuvHog you are on to something!!!  That would be better than the "Battle Line Rivalry"... gchamblee is a Debbie downer on this one; I really think ASU would give the current Hogs a run for their money.  Fact: ODU just joined C-USA in 2014 and has already scheduled Va. Tech for in-state games.  Dude, I can almost bet if (we know it will never happen) Hogs / Red Wolves played you would watch if not go every year.  I know, it's never gonna happen.

I crack up when people complain about us playing FCS programs but complain about us not playing that glorified high school in the north east. Even in our worst years we would shove our clown shoes down their throats.

gchamblee

Quote from: Razorbackers on September 20, 2017, 02:23:08 pm
Then he went 7 wins, 8 wins, 7 wins, and fans wanted him long gone.

Then he got Dak. Last year he went 6-7, and MSU fans wanted him gone again.

Now he's 3-0.

Dan is a great coach, especially when it comes to finding QBs that fit his system. But he was close to gone in the 3 year stretch for sure.

their AD is smart to ignore the loud mouthed idiots in their fan base and let the man coach his team.

 

gchamblee

Quote from: GunnerHawg70 on September 20, 2017, 02:23:40 pm
History in the SEC dictates this.  Ole Miss, MSU, Vandy, Kentucky historically have been the middle or bottom "football" teams of the modern era SEC.  Not until 1991 (USC(E) and Hogs) joined did the SEC become more of a balanced in the West and Super Teams in the East.  Well we all see the shift but the aforementioned teams never got into the upper echelon of the SEC and if they did it was short lived...I just confused myself so I hope it makes sense and answers your question...

so you think history is evidence of how the current program should perform, but you think our history is crap and we should be winning more than 8 games a year? LOL

Arkansas Fan

Quote from: b-ash on September 20, 2017, 03:45:03 pm
Why are they considered lower tier than Arkansas?  I was born in Arkansas and spent the first 21 years there, but I never considered them lower tier than us.

Really? Yes, Miss State's football program, overall, is lower tier than Arkansas.

gchamblee


niels_boar

Quote from: razorbackfaninar on September 20, 2017, 03:46:38 pm
Dan Mullen's overall record is a little misleading.  These are all of his wins going back to 2008.  Arguably his best conference win is against us when we were 5-3 in conference.  The rest of his conference wins since 2008 are against teams with a losing or even conference records.   If you take away the non-conference wins, here is who he has beaten since 2008:  Arkansas (x3), Vanderbilt (x2), Kentucky (x7), Ole Miss (x4), Texas A&M (x2) South Carolina(x1) LSU (x1) Auburn (x2).  You can look at the list below. There are wins there, but there aren't many quality wins to be found.  Of course he's doing it at State so perhaps he should get some credit for that.

2008: 4/12:  SLL, Middle Tennessee, Arkansas (2-6 in SEC) 

2009: 5/12:  Jackson State, Vanderbilt, Middle Tennessee, Kentucky, Ole Miss (4-4 in conference)

2010: 9/13:  Memphis, Georgia (3-5 in SEC play), Alcorn State, Houston, Florida (4-4 in SEC play), Kentucky, Ole Miss (1/7 in conference Wins over Kentucky), Michigan (7-6, 3-5 in Big 10)

2011: 7/13:  Memphis, LA Tech, UAB, Kentucky, UT Martin, Ole Miss (0-8 in conference)

2012: 8/13: Jackson State, Auburn (0-8 in sec play), Troy, South Alabama, Kentucky, Tennessee (1-7 in conference play) Arkansas (2-6 in conference)

2013:  7/13:  Alcorn State, Troy, Bowling Green, Kentucky, Arkansas (0-8 in conference), Ole Miss (3-5 in conference), Rice

2014: 10/13:  Southern Miss, UAB, South Alabama, LSU(4-4 in SEC), Texas A&M (3-5 in SEC), Auburn (4-4 in SEC), Kentucky, Arkansas (2-6 in SEC play), UT Martin, Vanderbilt 

2015:  9/13:  Southern Miss, Northwestern Demons, Auburn (2-6 in SEC play), Troy, Louisiana Tech, Kentucky, Missouri (1-7 in conference), Arkansas (5-3 in conference play), NC State

2016:  6/13:  South Carolina (3-5 in sec play), UMASS, Samford, Texas A&M (4-4 in SEC play), Ole Miss (2-6 in conference play), Miami of Ohio

Yeah, in his first five years he finished 5th in the West  three times and fourth twice.  In his fifth year he was 7 - 6 (3 - 5) and tied for fifth in the West.  With those results at Arkansas I'm pretty sure MMQB would have cheered his firing after year 5.  In year 6 he went 10-3 and got an Orange Bowl invite, but they immediately slid back to 5th in the West the last two years, behind us one season and tied the other in years 7 and year 8 of his tenure at MSU.  Shows you that one outstanding year can buy you some good will and time.
The jawbone of an ass is just as dangerous a weapon today as in Sampson's time.

IronHog

Quote from: Sweet Feet on September 20, 2017, 01:27:00 pm
Mississippi State i don't really consider to be a better program than Arkansas overall, but what is it about their program that has helped them be more successful than Arkansas in the past 5 years?


Better question is why is A state so much better given its resource level???
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

MountieDawg

miss st, ole miss, mizzou, s carolina, Louisville, N Carolina, Wisconsin, Baylor, Boise, Washington, Colorado, Utah, Texas A&M are just a few that have had better runs than Ark in past 5 years. Tougher question maybe lower to middle tier teams that have done worse the past 5 years...  I bet it would be next to impossible to find any that have done worse the past 5 years and still have that coach.
SEC!

MountieDawg

Quote from: 311Hog on September 20, 2017, 02:09:45 pm
no hog player, coach, or fan would give two shites about the Red Indian Wolfs.

i wouldn't even watch it on tv.  I couldn't imagine being a player trying to get up for that game.

IF they cant get up for Auburn, Mizzou, Va Tech and TCU they probably wouldnt get for A State... Whatever get up for a game means....  I beat they really got up for Florida A&M... The Rattlers were scary!
SEC!

Pig in the Pokey

Quote from: gchamblee on September 20, 2017, 01:57:42 pm
Typical. Someone is better than us so they are obviously cheating lol.
they are cheating, their own player admitted it (Leo Lewis). Also, they aren't "better" . we beat them last year and last year they won 5 games. They went bowling only b/c not enough teams were bowl eligible.
You must be on one if you think i aint on one! ¥420¥   «roastin da bomb in fayettenam» Purspirit Gang

hogginbama

Quote from: Sweet Feet on September 20, 2017, 01:27:00 pm
Mississippi State i don't really consider to be a better program than Arkansas overall, but what is it about their program that has helped them be more successful than Arkansas in the past 5 years?

Stability and the patience to let him build what they are now. He has been there what, 9 yrs, and they are reaping the benefits.
My ole buddy Biscuit has crossed that rainbow bridge. Life sure is different without him around.

LZH

I have said many times that I have a weird feeling about him, something that makes me uncomfortable. But who cares, if Bielema gets bounced I would think Mullen would get the first phone call.

Ex-Trumpet

Do dyslexic, agnostic insomniacs lie awake at night wondering if there really is a dog?

 

Farmer Hogget

They have been patient with their coach and allowed him to build over the years.

BigE_23

Quote from: gchamblee on September 20, 2017, 01:54:19 pm
They didn't panic and fire their coach. Next question.

Incorrect answer.

Their coach actually followed through with building something worth keeping.

BigE_23

Quote from: Farmer Hogget on September 20, 2017, 07:34:31 pm
They have been patient with their coach and allowed him to build over the years.

Just a couple of questions:

How many 50+ point losses, 2nd half collapses, and losses to inferior competition did he have his first 5 years?

And did his predecessor go 21-5 over a 2 year stretch and have a top 15 and top 5 finish??

It's pretty easy to be patient as a program when you've gone a long time without even coming close to sniffing success.

Arkansas Fan

Quote from: Farmer Hogget on September 20, 2017, 07:34:31 pm
They have been patient with their coach and allowed him to build over the years.

It's pretty easy to let a coach build when there's hardly ever been anything built before.


Nosboar Accubond

Coach   CBB   CDM
Year 1    3-9      5-7
Year 2    7-6      9-4
Year 3    8-5      7-6
Year 4    7-6      8-5
Year 5    1-1      7-6


We'd have called for CDM's head in year 5.

I'm not a CBB fan, but the CDM love fest is getting old.

He's a good coach, the benefactor of some shady recruiting, and has a hell of an eye for QB talent.

But he's not Saban 2.0 like many proclaim.

WPS


majp51

Quote from: Wildhog on September 20, 2017, 02:28:43 pm
I'm telling y'all... MSU boosters are absolutely, positively, 100% paying some players.

And based on that kind of evidence so too is some Arkansas alumni.

HiggiePiggy

Quote from: Nosboar Accubond on September 20, 2017, 08:07:57 pm
Coach   CBB   CDM
Year 1    3-9      5-7
Year 2    7-6      9-4
Year 3    8-5      7-6
Year 4    7-6      8-5
Year 5    1-1      7-6


We'd have called for CDM's head in year 5.

I'm not a CBB fan, but the CDM love fest is getting old.

He's a good coach, the benefactor of some shady recruiting, and has a hell of an eye for QB talent.

But he's not Saban 2.0 like many proclaim.

WPS

Not if our program was what Mississippi State has been over it's 113 years.  They have had 3 10 win seasons in their history. Dan Mullen has 1 of those 10.  They have 5 9 win seasons ever. Dan Mullen has 2 of them. Arkansas has won 10 games or more 3 times since joining the SEC. Before Dan Mullen there last 10 win season was 1999. So you have to take count of the program.  Yes they are a lower tier than Arkansas based on history of both programs. 
If a man speaks and no woman is around to hear him, is he still wrong?

Wildhog

Quote from: majp51 on September 20, 2017, 08:21:19 pm
And based on that kind of evidence so too is some Arkansas alumni.


We absolutely have our own boosters that step outside the lines of NCAA propriety.

We just don't do it to the extent that most others do in the SEC.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

GunnerHawg70

Quote from: gchamblee on September 20, 2017, 05:34:26 pm
so you think history is evidence of how the current program should perform, but you think our history is crap and we should be winning more than 8 games a year? LOL
Not saying that at all buds. Why can't anyone see the facts...Arkansas has historically in the SEC been a mediocre or middle tier team. Occasionally the Hogs have flirted with upper echelon status but never on a consistent basis. The Hogs have consistently no matter what coach have been the middle of the pack player in the SEC. That my friend is hard facts.

GunnerHawg70

Quote from: gchamblee on September 20, 2017, 05:31:49 pm
I crack up when people complain about us playing FCS programs but complain about us not playing that glorified high school in the north east. Even in our worst years we would shove our clown shoes down their throats.
What is it with you?!?! It's a revenue and fan experience we're talking here. Regardless of the winner, it would generate a huge buzz in the State of Arkansas!!! I can guarantee you it would make National attention and attract more recruits to Fayetteville. ASU is now a FBS program and like someone mentioned earlier it would be the hottest ticket seller in Arkansas!!! Well besides you and your negative outlook on everything in life...SMILE FFS!!!

Al Boarland

Quote from: Sweet Feet on September 20, 2017, 01:27:00 pm
Mississippi State i don't really consider to be a better program than Arkansas overall, but what is it about their program that has helped them be more successful than Arkansas in the past 5 years?

Take a look at our schedule next season. Cupcakes to pad the record. They do it every year.

Also, take a look at Mullen's record against highly ranked teams.

DeltaBoy

Mullen is the best developer of talent I seen beside the Snyder and Beamer.
If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.

Hogwild

Quote from: theFlyingHog on September 20, 2017, 01:30:09 pm
We have a better GPA!! We have a better GPA!!

Do we?

QuoteSEC 2017 APR

1. Vanderbilt 992

T2. Alabama 980

T2. Auburn 980

T2. Florida 980

T5. Mississippi State 974

T5. Missouri 974

7. Tennessee 972

8. Ole Miss 971

9. South Carolina 970

10. Arkansas 966

http://collegefootballnews.com/2017/05/2017-ncaa-academic-progress-rate-football-apr-rankings-by-conference

311Hog

Quote from: BrianG on September 20, 2017, 05:08:55 pm
Lol...idiot!  You better believe the players will get up for and they better cause stAte's players will.  Should we win ...with money put into this program we better but don't think it would not be a dog fight.  Give them some of the advantages we have and you better look out.  They have done more with less while our beloved athletic dept has done less with more.  Dollar for dollar the football program is kicking our ass.  Remember we should be competitive with schools who spend like we do...We aren't.  They are more than competitive with schools that spend like them.. Thumb your stupid ass nose all you want...be superior but I wish we had the success in our circle like they have had in theirs.  Dang I hate a moron!
.

It is not healthy to hate yourself.

I don't even want to finish reading this babble of a run on sentence are you a graduate of the mighty A state perhaps.

Sorry man but the Hogs are not full of Arkansas kids and even if they were they do not care at all about what is basically a junior college (traditionally) compared to them.  They would have nothing to play for, the Hogs own this state period that is absolutely NOTHING in it for the Razorbacks to play any other instate school except to have people nit pick the shite outa what ever happens on the field.  The Hogs could win 50 to zip and people would still say it should have been 51.

311Hog

Quote from: MountieDawg on September 20, 2017, 06:21:56 pm
IF they cant get up for Auburn, Mizzou, Va Tech and TCU they probably wouldnt get for A State... Whatever get up for a game means....  I beat they really got up for Florida A&M... The Rattlers were scary!

Get up for a game means excited, respect their opponent, has their full attention. did you never play ?

Florida A&M is a rent a win it was a glorified practice and the players etc. all treated it as such.  All the other teams you mentioned are legit programs that have earned the Hogs respect on the field.  ASU means nothing to the Hogs in terms of football.  Yes they have gone to a hand full of bowl games and "almost beat a crappy Nebraska team" but that does not put them in the Hogs class even if we do not win another game this season.

Hoggish1

Quote from: gchamblee on September 20, 2017, 01:55:06 pm
Yes, a lopsided blowout game every year would generate so much hype.

The problem is it wouldn't be a lopsided score every year or we would be playing them.

311Hog

Quote from: Hoggish1 on September 21, 2017, 10:52:42 am
The problem is it wouldn't be a lopsided score every year or we would be playing them.


No the problem is that even if every ASU player retired that day they would have won.  There is no way for the UofA to win a match up with any state school none.  Win by a 1000 - still lose.  THERE IS NOTHING absolutely positively NOTHING in it for the UofA to play ASU.

No amount of money, no amount of energy, no amount of hype, no amount of publicity will cover what it would cost.

Hoggish1

Quote from: 311Hog on September 21, 2017, 11:21:12 am
No the problem is that even if every ASU player retired that day they would have won.  There is no way for the UofA to win a match up with any state school none.  Win by a 1000 - still lose.  THERE IS NOTHING absolutely positively NOTHING in it for the UofA to play ASU.

No amount of money, no amount of energy, no amount of hype, no amount of publicity will cover what it would cost.

Well that was what FU said when FSU wanted to play them.

311Hog

Quote from: Hoggish1 on September 21, 2017, 12:06:23 pm
Well that was what FU said when FSU wanted to play them.

dude Florida University and Arkansas State University aren't even the same species.

but that is precisely my point.  At one point Auburn was Arkansas State University, and Bama finally played them and even though i am sure Bama stomped a mud hole in them for decades they still lost why? because now there are 2 schools in the state as oppose to one.

So yeah UofA could play ASU and in 80 years ASU will be a real boy to.

mizzouman

Quote from: Sweet Feet on September 20, 2017, 01:27:00 pm
Mississippi State i don't really consider to be a better program than Arkansas overall, but what is it about their program that has helped them be more successful than Arkansas in the past 5 years?
Why don't you consider MSST a better program than Arkansas?  True, Arkansas has more history/tradition but a program is defined by the coach and the last 5 years of results. 

birmingHAMette

Quote from: Wildhog on September 20, 2017, 02:28:43 pm
I'm telling y'all... MSU boosters are absolutely, positively, 100% paying some players.
[/quot

Ole Miss will try and take them down too. It's pretty ugly between those two, especially with the Leo Lewis thing.
Go Hogs

Seebs

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GoHogzzGo

Success isn't permanent and failure isn't fatal.

jackflash