How has a lower tier school like Miss St had more success than Arkansas lately?

[Wildhog]

he's had two great running  QB

Yeah, he's a great QB developer.

[menehune]

The reality is that Arkansas and Mississippi State are on equal footing in the SEC...just have to accept that pretty much everyone else in the SEC is on the next level under Alabama.

[HoggyCat]

Miss st has the second most wins behind Alabama in recent history. I heard the year they went back to but slips my mind.

[DeltaBoy]

Mississippi State i don't really consider to be a better program than Arkansas overall, but what is it about their program that has helped them be more successful than Arkansas in the past 5 years?

Fact Mullens does More with Less.

[Temprees]

Mississippi State i don't really consider to be a better program than Arkansas overall, but what is it about their program that has helped them be more successful than Arkansas in the past 5 years?

Dual threat QBs are a great equalizer.  Thats part of it.

[BigBrandonAllenFan]

Huh?  What?  Who?  When?  Where?  Why?  Huh?

[LZH]

They hired the right coach.

/ thread

[311Hog]

They hired the right coach. and the right bag man

/ thread

[Sweet Feet]

No the problem is that even if every ASU player retired that day they would have won.  There is no way for the UofA to win a match up with any state school none.  Win by a 1000 - still lose.  THERE IS NOTHING absolutely positively NOTHING in it for the UofA to play ASU.

No amount of money, no amount of energy, no amount of hype, no amount of publicity will cover what it would cost.

What does arkansas gain from the other sun belt and mid majors/fcs teams that they wouldn gain playing ASU?

Tying it back to the original topic, Miss St had played Ole Miss every year and So Miss in 2014 and 2015 and still are doing better than Arkansas in the past 5 years. This irrational thought that an instate midmajor is going to ruin an SEC team by simply playing is very embarrasing.

[buldozer]

Mississippi State i don't really consider to be a better program than Arkansas overall, but what is it about their program that has helped them be more successful than Arkansas in the past 5 years?

Coaching maybe ..........

[311Hog]

What does arkansas gain from the other sun belt and mid majors/fcs teams that they wouldn gain playing ASU?

notsureifserious

they gain filler on the schedule.

[Sweet Feet]

notsureifserious

they gain filler on the schedule.

So you are saying ASU too good to be a filler on the schedule

[311Hog]

So you are saying ASU too good to be a filler on the schedule

I am saying that UofA gains nothing and can only lose by playing ASU as anything in anything but basically a major sport.

If UofA pays/plays Tulane and only wins by 40, people in Arkansas are not going to suddenly stop being Hog fans to join the Green Wave band wagon.

If you entirely own something and you do not have to share why would you.

[Sweet Feet]

I am saying that UofA gains nothing and can only lose by playing ASU as anything in anything but basically a major sport.

If UofA pays/plays Tulane and only wins by 40, people in Arkansas are not going to suddenly stop being Hog fans to join the Green Wave band wagon.

If you entirely own something and you do not have to share why would you.

UA would gain the same thing they would playing other midmajors. The fear is irrational. Why is an SEC school worried about losing fans to a Sun Belt team by playing? Lol thats embarrassing and the other SEC schools would laugh at that.

How many fans and success did Tennessee lose when they lost to Memphis in 96?
Or Oklahoma when they lost to Tulsa in 96? Or South Carolina when they lost to instate FCS opponent Citadel in 2015? VT lost to instate FCS JMU and won 11 straight that same year and went to the Orange Bowl. It took iowa a blocked FG at the end of the game to beat FCS UNI 4 years ago. UGA and GT just did win vs Georgia Southern in 15 and 16. Miami lost to FAMu 4 years before their dynasty

I can go on and on. The point im trying to make is there is no empirically proven evidence that playing, struggling, or even losing to a smaller instate team brings harm to a program. The only ones who truly believe that are the Arkansans that Broyles hogwashed with that "Arkansas is fragile" mentaility. I have never gotten that mindset. A real program isnt going to falter just from playing a smaller instate team. If thy do, they werent a good program to begin with. Its no doubt in my mind Arkansas wouldn move down in the state or national pecking order because of 1 Game against ASU, UCA, or UAPB

[311Hog]

UA would gain the same thing they would playing other midmajors. The fear is irrational. Why is an SEC school worried about losing fans to a Sun Belt team by playing? Lol thats embarrassing and the other SEC schools would laugh at that.

How many fans and success did Tennessee lose when they lost to Memphis in 96?
Or Oklahoma when they lost to Tulsa in 96? Or South Carolina when they lost to instate FCS opponent Citadel in 2015? VT lost to instate FCS JMU and won 11 straight that same year and went to the Orange Bowl. It took iowa a blocked FG at the end of the game to beat FCS UNI 4 years ago. UGA and GT just did win vs Georgia Southern in 15 and 16. Miami lost to FAMu 4 years before their dynasty

I can go on and on. The point im trying to make is there is no empirically proven evidence that playing, struggling, or even losing to a smaller instate team brings harm to a program. The only ones who truly believe that are the Arkansans that Broyles hogwashed with that "Arkansas is fragile" mentaility. I have never gotten that mindset.

reverse psychology  won't work.  You can try and argue this all the different ways.  You can try and insult the manhood, claim "fear", you can push the but but its money for the state angle, nope doesn't matter.

Arkansas and the Hogs are about as unique as it gets in the world of college sports and sports in general.  There are almost no other teams in any sport that enjoy the almost total fan support of the entire state they reside in.  Nebraska is about the only parallel i can think of, and we all saw what happened when ASU played the Hogs in basketball we almost never got a National Championship (Thanks Cannon Witby) because he saved Nolan's job because a loss to ASU woulda definitely resulted in his firing long before he won it all here.

There is no reason for the Hogs to play ASU in any major sport if you are a fan of the Hogs.  The only people that want this are the 1 % in this state that are not Hog fans. 

[Sweet Feet]

reverse psychology  won't work.  You can try and argue this all the different ways.  You can try and insult the manhood, claim "fear", you can push the but but its money for the state angle, nope doesn't matter.

Arkansas and the Hogs are about as unique as it gets in the world of college sports and sports in general.  There are almost no other teams in any sport that enjoy the almost total fan support of the entire state they reside in.  Nebraska is about the only parallel i can think of, and we all saw what happened when ASU played the Hogs in basketball we almost never got a National Championship (Thanks Cannon Witby) because he saved Nolan's job because a loss to ASU woulda definitely resulted in his firing long before he won it all here.

There is no reason for the Hogs to play ASU in any major sport if you are a fan of the Hogs.  The only people that want this are the 1 % in this state that are not Hog fans.

The funny thing is you didn't even refute any of the examples i just gave destroying the whole "everything to lose" notion lol. No oter hog fan ever has though so i expected that. .

You are making this about fans and fan support, but again, what SEC team is that anxious that a instate Sun Belt team is going to steal fans and fan support in the state? That is absurd. UAB could play Alabama 10 times and win once and the Tide fanbase would not fall off. No major school had ever suffered a big decrease in fans just by playing an instate team.

The NIT game indeed had Nolan on the hot seat, but the atmosphere and intensity was insane. It was something different that nobody in the state had ever experienced. I bet it was one of the many factors that pushed nolan even harder to have great teams.

And there was an article last week on facebook and the original article talking about if the two should play. And whether you believe it or not, 90% of the people, hog fans included, mentioned that they wanted it to happened. Times are changing, especially since Broyles isn't here anymore

My biggest problem with UA's instate policy is the fear as an SEC program that a Sun Belt team would destroy everything.

[311Hog]

The funny thing is you didn't even refute any of the examples i just gave destroying the whole "everything to lose" notion lol. No oter hog fan ever has though so i expected that. .

You are making this about fans and fan support, but again, what SEC team is that anxious that a instate Sun Belt team is going to steal fans and fan support in the state? That is absurd. UAB could play Alabama 10 times and win once and the Tide fanbase would not fall off. No major school had ever suffered a big decrease in fans just by playing an instate team.

The NIT game indeed had Nolan on the hot seat, but the atmosphere and intensity was insane. It was something different that nobody in the state had ever experienced. I bet it was one of the many factors that pushed nolan even harder to have great teams.

And there was an article last week on facebook and the original article talking about if the two should play. And whether you believe it or not, 90% of the people, hog fans included, mentioned that they wanted it to happened. Times are changing, especially since Broyles isn't here anymore

My biggest problem with UA's instate policy is the fear as an SEC program that a Sun Belt team would destroy everything.

you can keep trying to insult people by calling it fear it isn't.  It is common sense.

If i own every house in a city, i am not going to let you have one just because.  The UofA doesn't have to do a damn thing but keep on keepin on.

[Inhogswetrust]

Mississippi State i don't really consider to be a better program than Arkansas overall, but what is it about their program that has helped them be more successful than Arkansas in the past 5 years?

This is the dumbest question you may have ever asked.

[Sweet Feet]

you can keep trying to insult people by calling it fear it isn't.  It is common sense.

If i own every house in a city, i am not going to let you have one just because.  The UofA doesn't have to do a damn thing but keep on keepin on.

If its common sense, why does every major D1 team with an Non-conf instate counterpart still do it, including the ones more successful than Arkansas? You still havent refuted the examples given earlier. There is no evidence given that playing an instate team would hurt the program.

[311Hog]

If its common sense, why does every major D1 team with an Non-conf instate counterpart still do it, including the ones more successful than Arkansas? You still havent refuted the examples given earlier. There is no evidence given that playing an instate team would hurt the program.

because their ship has already sailed.  they do not own their respective states in the way the UofA does Arkansas. it is very simple.

Every other state has way more people and can realistically support 2 + programs Arkansas cannot.  Arkansas cannot even support Arkansas.

You don't think Alabama wouldn't climb into the time machine and go back and piss on Auburn ? I do

[Sweet Feet]

because their ship has already sailed.  they do not own their respective states in the way the UofA does Arkansas. it is very simple.

Every other state has way more people and can realistically support 2 + programs Arkansas cannot.  Arkansas cannot even support Arkansas.

You don't think Alabama wouldn't climb into the time machine and go back and piss on Auburn ? I do

Their ship has sailed? What do you mean by that? They aren't worried about having a monopoly of the state like Arkansas. They are worried about winning national titles.

The population excuse is a myth. Mississippi, Iowa and Utah roughly have the same population as Arkansas and have 2 or more FBS teams that play each other. Utah had major success in the 2000s and still is a consistently good team along with BYU who actually has a national title. Iowa was just a goalline stand away from reaching the CFP in 2015. They have won a major bowl game in the past decade. Ole miss, well they have been cheating, but Miss St has had sustained success the past 10 years. They played So Miss and Ole Miss in 2014 and 2015 but still was in the playoff race and won 19 ganes those 2 seasons. West Virginia has over 1million people less than Arkansas and have 2 FBS teams. WVU has always been a consistently good program with 3 major bowl wins in the past 10 seasons, and multiple chances late in the season. All while playing marshall those seasons as well.  So the population excuse really isnt a good one

And honestly, no i dont think alabama fans would go back in time and piss on Auburn. The iron bowl is probably the biggest sporting event in the state of Alabama and a top 3 rivalry in all of college football. People from outside Arkansas have a different perception of instate games.

[jfred59]

We have pretty much owned MSU. One reason is we played them quite often right after they played Alabama.Mullen is considered one of the best HCs. Our programs are very similar but they do have a more fertile recruiting area

Explain to me how Mississippi is a more fertile recruiting ground than Arkansas? 

[HiggiePiggy]

Explain to me how Mississippi is a more fertile recruiting ground than Arkansas? 

Look it up.  People have said why many times.  Look at the difference in D1 P5 players that come out of Mississippi compared to Arkansas.  None of this really matters because we out recruit Mississippi State and on par except during it's cheating times with Ole Miss. Only difference is Mississippi State has a better coach.

[jvanhorn]

Well, it's harder to recruit to Fayetteville than to Starkville.

Well, when you are in Jonesboro you are an hour from Memphis, when you are in Fayetteville your are an hour from?  lol.

[jvanhorn]

because their ship has already sailed.  they do not own their respective states in the way the UofA does Arkansas. it is very simple.

Every other state has way more people and can realistically support 2 + programs Arkansas cannot.  Arkansas cannot even support Arkansas.

And yet Oklahoma supports Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and even Tulsa.  Kansas supports Kansas and Kansas State.  Iowa has Iowa and Iowa State, well you get the picture. 

You don't think Alabama wouldn't climb into the time machine and go back and piss on Auburn ? I do

[311Hog]

I don't think some of you truly realize how small Arkansas is population wise compared to other states, and then you factor in that a significant portion of that small population is almost worthless football wise because they cant/won't make the grades/stay in school.

Some of the best basketball/football players I ever saw never made it past 9th grade.

[311Hog]

Their ship has sailed? What do you mean by that? They aren't worried about having a monopoly of the state like Arkansas. They are worried about winning national titles.

The population excuse is a myth. Mississippi, Iowa and Utah roughly have the same population as Arkansas and have 2 or more FBS teams that play each other. Utah had major success in the 2000s and still is a consistently good team along with BYU who actually has a national title. Iowa was just a goalline stand away from reaching the CFP in 2015. They have won a major bowl game in the past decade. Ole miss, well they have been cheating, but Miss St has had sustained success the past 10 years. They played So Miss and Ole Miss in 2014 and 2015 but still was in the playoff race and won 19 ganes those 2 seasons. West Virginia has over 1million people less than Arkansas and have 2 FBS teams. WVU has always been a consistently good program with 3 major bowl wins in the past 10 seasons, and multiple chances late in the season. All while playing marshall those seasons as well.  So the population excuse really isnt a good one

And honestly, no i dont think alabama fans would go back in time and piss on Auburn. The iron bowl is probably the biggest sporting event in the state of Alabama and a top 3 rivalry in all of college football. People from outside Arkansas have a different perception of instate games.

name one thing the UofA would gain from playing UCA, A state or any instate school I won't stick around to hear the answer because you cant.

There isn't a single thing for UofA to gain.  Now I don't know about you, but if someone told me to do something that was 100% not in my best interests well I think you can fill in the rest.
We aren't Utah or West Virginia we are Arkansas Home of the RAZORBACKS and no one else.

[Hog N Bama]

I don't think we want any part of ASU at the moment, and before everyone laughs -- ASU just thought it wanted some of UCA last year.

It would be a HUGE game for both fan bases. Hottest ticket of the year without question.

No it wouldn't cause nobody in Arkansas gives a rats a&$ about the Arkansas State Red Wolves.  Only the RAZORBACKS represent Arkansas.

[Sweet Feet]

name one thing the UofA would gain from playing UCA, A state or any instate school I won't stick around to hear the answer because you cant.

There isn't a single thing for UofA to gain.  Now I don't know about you, but if someone told me to do something that was 100% not in my best interests well I think you can fill in the rest.
We aren't Utah or West Virginia we are Arkansas Home of the RAZORBACKS and no one else.

They would gain the same thing as they do playing other sun belt and fcs teams, just like the other major programs who do the same: A tune up game. Its that simple. What can't be answered or refuted is the examples of other programs playing smaller instate teams and being perfectly fine, along with the population myth being exposed thanks to the success of Utah, Iowa, and WVU etc. not to mention the sense it makes that an SEC School thinks that a Sun Belt team is going to steal their fans, recruits, and success by simply playing.

The excuses and rationales all are easily refutable and people from outside this state think the policy is a joke. But to each his own however. The game is long overdue and would bring excitement to the state than a game against southwestern kansas tech or the University of KFC.. But with Broyles completely out the picture now, its no longer a matter of if, but when.

[IronHog]

name one thing the UofA would gain from playing UCA, A state or any instate school I won't stick around to hear the answer because you cant.

There isn't a single thing for UofA to gain.  Now I don't know about you, but if someone told me to do something that was 100% not in my best interests well I think you can fill in the rest.
We aren't Utah or West Virginia we are Arkansas Home of the RAZORBACKS and no one else.

Actually be required to put a superior team on the field instead of lip service......


Don't want AState to beat you?  Then have a real football program.

[cosmodrum]

More talent closer to their campus and a quality HC.

Not a scientific rocket.

[IronHog]

Yeah, he's a great QB developer.

QB play is the great equalizer


Truth is Bama is very beatable now.....nobody in the SEC has a QB though

[HamSammich]

QB play is the great equalizer


Truth is Bama is very beatable now.....nobody in the SEC has a QB though

Your last two posts were the best in this thread.

[DLUXHOG]

They don't have integrity (they're cheating)....

[DLUXHOG]

Well, when you are in Jonesboro you are an hour from Memphis, when you are in Fayetteville your are an hour from?  lol.

And DFW has way more population than the entire state of Tennessee....

[razoredge178]

Mullen has proven himself as a program builder.

Bret isn't. Great coach, especially if a solid program is handed to him. Clearly he has struggled at the building part.

[311Hog]

They would gain the same thing as they do playing other sun belt and fcs teams, just like the other major programs who do the same: A tune up game. Its that simple. What can't be answered or refuted is the examples of other programs playing smaller instate teams and being perfectly fine, along with the population myth being exposed thanks to the success of Utah, Iowa, and WVU etc. not to mention the sense it makes that an SEC School thinks that a Sun Belt team is going to steal their fans, recruits, and success by simply playing.

The excuses and rationales all are easily refutable and people from outside this state think the policy is a joke. But to each his own however. The game is long overdue and would bring excitement to the state than a game against southwestern kansas tech or the University of KFC.. But with Broyles completely out the picture now, its no longer a matter of if, but when.

Last time i checked Arkansas was not in desperate need of "more" tune up games.  So again i ask why would Arkansas want something it does not need nor derive any benefit from what so ever.

Need tune up games ? plenty of schools ready and willing and none of which are looking for their one great shot at glory.  Already got the entire state on lock down, so again nothing.  There is no reason for the UofA point of view which means from the point of view of approx. 99% of the state for this to happen.

Also playing A-State would have no impact at all on the quality or lack there of of the Hog football program. 

[311Hog]

Actually be required to put a superior team on the field instead of lip service......


Don't want AState to beat you?  Then have a real football program.

Playing astate would do none of these things. 

[IronHog]

Last time i checked Arkansas was not in desperate need of "more" tune up games.  So again i ask why would Arkansas want something it does not need nor derive any benefit from what so ever.

Need tune up games ? plenty of schools ready and willing and none of which are looking for their one great shot at glory.  Already got the entire state on lock down, so again nothing.  There is no reason for the UofA point of view which means from the point of view of approx. 99% of the state for this to happen.

Also playing A-State would have no impact at all on the quality or lack there of of the Hog football program. 

Took UCA suing to get UA into gear to be a real college vs the "flagship" BS with their thumb on the other schools.


Looks like it's going to take the same thing to get a real football team...... if the legislature forced an Astate game Id bet UA wins the SEC within 5 years.

[jacobp]

Mullen has proven himself as a program builder.

Bret isn't. Great coach, especially if a solid program is handed to him. Clearly he has struggled at the building part.

its also been proven that they buy players.

[DLUXHOG]

Oh please....   if Arkansas is so, so inferior, then why? has Alabama and Mississippi continually reached out and engaged coaches with Arkansas roots? (Bear, Malzahn, Freeze, Wommack, Nutt, etc..)

[311Hog]

Took UCA suing to get UA into gear to be a real college vs the "flagship" BS with their thumb on the other schools.


Looks like it's going to take the same thing to get a real football team...... on the legislature forced an Astate game and I bet UA wins the SEC within 5 years.

dunno man which would you prefer total state domination or sharing the state with a program like bama and auburn do?

I tend to lean towards the former, we have enough issues without dealing with some upstart little brother who wants fair treatment without any of the weight behind them.

[IronHog]

Playing astate would do none of these things. 

That why UA has bad football


We're the best!

Prove it.


Don't hafta.  Flagship


🙄

[311Hog]

That why UA has bad football


We're the best!

Prove it.


Don't hafta.  Flagship


🙄

haha i am not saying we are the best i am saying that if you do not have to do a thing and there is no benefit in doing a thing why should be expected to do a thing?

Here is a pie you can eat the whole thing or give one piece of it to this guy over here that hates your guts and will not appreciate it at all and will probably complain the whole time what do you do?

I eat the whole damn pie.

[IronHog]

dunno man which would you prefer total state domination or sharing the state with a program like bama and auburn do?

I tend to lean towards the former, we have enough issues without dealing with some upstart little brother who wants fair treatment without any of the weight behind them.

Why be scared?


UA should beat Astate every year.  Except they wouldn't

[IronHog]

haha i am not saying we are the best i am saying that if you do not have to do a thing and there is no benefit in doing a thing why should be expected to do a thing?

Here is a pie you can eat the whole thing or give one piece of it to this guy over here that hates your guts and will not appreciate it at all and will probably complain the whole time what do you do?

I eat the whole damn pie.

Then enjoy the less than mediocre NWA north Dallas Razorbacks and everything that goes with it.........

[311Hog]

Then enjoy the less than mediocre NWA north Dallas Razorbacks and everything that goes with it.........

but that isn't what they are and you know it.  If that were true then more than like 7 people would show up to Astate games and people would actually care about that program.  Nothing to do with fear nothing to do with winning NC's or anything like that.

Simply put they don't have to, there is no benefit in doing it so it is nothing to them.

By your rational we schedule AState next year hammer them 50 - 7 and at the end of the season we are holding up the NC trophy. No no nothing like that happens.  People will still complain because Astate scored 7 points and still complain because we won 8 games instead of 13.

Or we lose the game because we are not in a good place playing in a murders conference while A-state has a decent team playing in a mid major chip on your shoulder circle the game for an entire year type mentality size of fight in dog etc. etc.  Then the whole internet goes boom

[DLUXHOG]

Then enjoy the less than mediocre NWA north Dallas Razorbacks and everything that goes with it.........

I'm cool with this if the Hogs bring home 5 NATTIES (Cowboys have 5 Super Bowl wins).....

[IronHog]

but that isn't what they are and you know it.  If that were true then more than like 7 people would show up to Astate games and people would actually care about that program.  Nothing to do with fear nothing to do with winning NC's or anything like that.

Simply put they don't have to, there is no benefit in doing it so it is nothing to them.

By your rational we schedule AState next year hammer them 50 - 7 and at the end of the season we are holding up the NC trophy. No no nothing like that happens.  People will still complain because Astate scored 7 points and still complain because we won 8 games instead of 13.

Or we lose the game because we are not in a good place playing in a murders conference while A-state has a decent team playing in a mid major chip on your shoulder circle the game for an entire year type mentality size of fight in dog etc. etc.  Then the whole internet goes boom

Arkansas isn't hammering AState 50-7 right now.........


Thsts why Arkansas stinks.  Arrogance

[Silver Hog]

The question is flawed, the reality is we ARE a lower tier team.  As much as we want to think we are Bama, we are Mizzou or Vandy or Kentucky.