Big Men needed

[mhuff]

True but Nova did have a couple of bigs on the roster. The thing is we should be trying to do it (win Championships) the way most schools do it not the way one exception in 10 did it!

[zebradynasty]

I am sorry but Trey was not worth 4 years of scholarship money just to get a few decent games from him.  I am sure he is a great kid and I am glad he got his degree but I want a guy who is a much better athlete and really wants it.  Trey likes hamburgers and fried chicken much better than he loves the game of BB.

Not sure about his worth for his career. Trey was never going to be the second coming of the Big "O" Miller! Still I expected more but any rate I think we can find a Lee Wilson (or better) type player still out there.

[Hawg Red]

Trey Thompson kinda proves my point. He isn't all that talented nor in shape but he's 6-9 and has added to the team. If he was 6'-7" he'd never see the court. Yet Thompson has contributed to the team in a meaningful way. I am sure there are some Trey Thomas type kids still available perhaps some even better! Signing one would NOT necessarily be a wasted scholly given our current situation with bigs.

I believe Trey Thompson could be replaced by a 6'8 player with more speed and athleticism. Trey, many times, does not play 6'9 or 6'10. And he's very slow and that has made him a clear liability many times. I'm sure you're aware of this if you're watching the games. I don't believe there is much that his size has enabled him to do that a smaller but more athletic player couldn't replicate in some other way.  Trey is not helping you prove anything. He is a role player.  We're talking talking about a signing a 6'7 or 6'8 role player. We're talking about instead of being hell bent on signing really, really talented players at other positions for the 2019 and 2020 classes. Huge difference. Javon Franklin is probably just 6'6 but the speed and explosiveness that this kid has would make him more valuable than Trey Thompson because he's going to play more aggressive and he isn't going to slow us down. He's going to be able to close in on a defender who is breaking to the hoop without having to just give up on them because he's too slow to catch them like we see at least once a game with Trey. He's going to be like Barford and catch that player from behind and pin their layup on the backboard. He's a freak and that makes up for his lack of height by allowing him to be a factor in other ways.

But if we're just talking about if Gafford goes pro, I don't think anyone is arguing that a big man should be brought in. I just don't see the need for some lightly-rated prep player when we could get a proven grad transfer that would give us a senior on the team (we have none for next season) and allows us to have a scholarship to use for 2019 (of which we currently have 0 available and 1 player committed). Just use your brain. This isn't hard. No one is saying become Villanova South. But all signs point to just following the talent right now even if it isn't at a position of need because scholarship availability is a big issue. They have to preserve flexibility there. We don't need another Trey Thompson here in just to give us 8, 9 minutes a game and not make much of an impact because they aren't that talented. We need talent above everything else. I'd rather the team be really, really strong in a couple of areas than make those areas just okay for the sake of making the weaker area marginally less weak.

[zebradynasty]

I believe Trey Thompson could be replaced by a 6'8 player with more speed and athleticism. Trey, many times, does not play 6'9 or 6'10. And he's very slow and that has made him a clear liability many times. I'm sure you're aware of this if you're watching the games. I don't believe there is much that his size has enabled him to do that a smaller but more athletic player couldn't replicate in some other way.  Trey is not helping you prove anything. He is a role player.  We're talking talking about a signing a 6'7 or 6'8 role player. We're talking about instead of being hell bent on signing really, really talented players at other positions for the 2019 and 2020 classes. Huge difference. Javon Franklin is probably just 6'6 but the speed and explosiveness that this kid has would make him more valuable than Trey Thompson because he's going to play more aggressive and he isn't going to slow us down. He's going to be able to close in on a defender who is breaking to the hoop without having to just give up on them because he's too slow to catch them like we see at least once a game with Trey. He's going to be like Barford and catch that player from behind and pin their layup on the backboard. He's a freak and that makes up for his lack of height by allowing him to be a factor in other ways.

But if we're just talking about if Gafford goes pro, I don't think anyone is arguing that a big man should be brought in. I just don't see the need for some lightly-rated prep player when we could get a proven grad transfer that would give us a senior on the team (we have none for next season) and allows us to have a scholarship to use for 2019 (of which we currently have 0 available and 1 player committed). Just use your brain. This isn't hard. No one is saying become Villanova South. But all signs point to just following the talent right now even if it isn't at a position of need because scholarship availability is a big issue. They have to preserve flexibility there. We don't need another Trey Thompson here in just to give us 8, 9 minutes a game and not make much of an impact because they aren't that talented. We need talent above everything else. I'd rather the team be really, really strong in a couple of areas than make those areas just okay for the sake of making the weaker area marginally less weak.

I would LOVE for the hogs to sign Franklin out of JUCO. Seems like you look at the roster the way MA does. A roster full of skilled athletic 6'6"-6'-8" players can be very disruptive. We can win a LOT of games with a roster like that until they meet teams with skilled athletic 6'-9"- 6'-11" players. There is a reason why we struggle to beat the North Carolina's and Kentucky type teams we can't match or at least hold our own with them offensively or defensively in the 4-5 positions. We need athletic big men to balance it out. Franklin is too good to pass on but we have enough players with his size and skill. Unless we sign a 6'-6" wingman that's a lotto pick adding more of them wont get us back to the final 4. I just don't think it was coincidence that when Nolan won the national championship/runner-up that we had 2 6'11"'s and a 6'9" on the roster to go along with very solid players at the 1-3 spots.

[mhuff]

I would LOVE for the hogs to sign Franklin out of JUCO. Seems like you look at the roster the way MA does. A roster full of skilled athletic 6'6"-6'-8" players can be very disruptive. We can win a LOT of games with a roster like that until they meet teams with skilled athletic 6'-9"- 6'-11" players. There is a reason why we struggle to beat the North Carolina's and Kentucky type teams we can't match or at least hold our own with them offensively or defensively in the 4-5 positions. We need athletic big men to balance it out. Franklin is too good to pass on but we have enough players with his size and skill. Unless we sign a 6'-6" wingman that's a lotto pick adding more of them wont get us back to the final 4. I just don't think it was coincidence that when Nolan won the national championship/runner-up that we had 2 6'11"'s and a 6'9" on the roster to go along with very solid players at the 1-3 spots.

[mhuff]

I would LOVE for the hogs to sign Franklin out of JUCO. Seems like you look at the roster the way MA does. A roster full of skilled athletic 6'6"-6'-8" players can be very disruptive. We can win a LOT of games with a roster like that until they meet teams with skilled athletic 6'-9"- 6'-11" players. There is a reason why we struggle to beat the North Carolina's and Kentucky type teams we can't match or at least hold our own with them offensively or defensively in the 4-5 positions. We need athletic big men to balance it out. Franklin is too good to pass on but we have enough players with his size and skill. Unless we sign a 6'-6" wingman that's a lotto pick adding more of them wont get us back to the final 4. I just don't think it was coincidence that when Nolan won the national championship/runner-up that we had 2 6'11"'s and a 6'9" on the roster to go along with very solid players at the 1-3 spots.

[mhuff]

All we will lack is a talented center. The future looks good to me. Perhaps too many people look for the bad to happen. That way if good happens they can be pleasantly surprised. Remember the people who thought that Kingsley and Gafford were projects. If we get a talented center somehow this year, we are going to kick some butt if Gafford stays. We are going to improve at a couple or more positions ..... freshmen or not. Plus , we will have a 3 that can score.

[Hawg Red]

We are not recruiting a talented center. At least not publicly. Of course I think we should be. I'm very much pro-size. But I'm just dealing in reality and I'd rather have smaller, more talented player than bigger player with limited usefulness. It doesn't matter how big a player is if he isn't good.

[GuvHog]

We are not recruiting a talented center. At least not publicly. Of course I think we should be. I’m very much pro-size. But I’m just dealing in reality and I’d rather have smaller, more talented player than bigger player with limited usefulness. It doesn’t matter how big a player is if he isn’t good.

Just because a big man is rated a 3 star player doesn't make him a bad player. For some reason you have this mentality that Arkansas signing a 3 star 6'10"+ big man would be a horrible thing and it just isn't true. Often when a top quality big man is not available, a good head coach will take a 3 star 6'10"+ big man and develop him.

[Letsroll1200]

We are not recruiting a talented center. At least not publicly. Of course I think we should be. I'm very much pro-size. But I'm just dealing in reality and I'd rather have smaller, more talented player than bigger player with limited usefulness. It doesn't matter how big a player is if he isn't good.

You are absolutely right! There are times where Trey Thompson has trouble getting up the floor and he's a below the rim player. Players that are 6'10-6'11 and explosive are mostly one and done types of talent. I'll take 6'7-6-8 kid that's athletic over a 6'10 that struggles to run up the court.

[mhuff]

We are not recruiting a talented center. At least not publicly. Of course I think we should be. I'm very much pro-size. But I'm just dealing in reality and I'd rather have smaller, more talented player than bigger player with limited usefulness. It doesn't matter how big a player is if he isn't good.

I would agree that we are not recruiting a big time center that we know about. Still, if I were a betting man, I would say that we are. That's just like the SG Thompson. I didn't know that we were recruiting him til recently. I think I read where we have been on him since June or July. BB is a lot more closed mouth than FB. Besides Scotty is on staff and recruiting. I don't think that he sleeps. Also, most are not aware that he has a "S" on his chest and leaps tall buildings with a single bound.

[Hawg Red]

I would agree that we are not recruiting a big time center that we know about. Still, if I were a betting man, I would say that we are. That's just like the SG Thompson. I didn't know that we were recruiting him til recently. I think I read where we have been on him since June or July. BB is a lot more closed mouth than FB. Besides Scotty is on staff and recruiting. I don't think that he sleeps. Also, most are not aware that he has a "S" on his chest and leaps tall buildings with a single stride. 

If there is a truly talented big man out there that wants to consider him, go for it. Otherwise, just go where the talent is. There's something to be said for having a killer backcourt and Hill - Embery - Joe - Sills - Jones - Ramsey would give us a smaller look but they would absolutely be a nightmare for opposing defenses. It then comes down to which is the bigger nightmare: our woes defending/scoring in the paint or their woes defending our deep and talented backcourt. It's a give/take. Just signing a big because that's what you think you have to do could take strength away from some other part of the team and still potentially not address things in the paint if that player isn't very good.

[Hawg Red]

Just because a big man is rated a 3 star player doesn't make him a bad player. For some reason you have this mentality that Arkansas signing a 3 star 6'10"+ big man would be a horrible thing and it just isn't true. Often when a top quality big man is not available, a good head coach will take a 3 star 6'10"+ big man and develop him.

Depends on the player. But we aren't recruiting any and it's pretty late in the game for 2018 to expect to find a reliable prospect for that class. If Gafford goes pro after the season, then we could say the staff should have some time to look at their options on 2019 prep bigs that could be worth it. But if Gafford comes back, and I think he ultimately will after testing the waters, we're fine. Gabe is a fine backup for Gafford. Gabe has potential to be more than what Trey Thompson turned out to be. Gabe was a great signing late and if the staff does decide to go find a prep big if a scholarship becomes available, we'll have to hope that players has the promise that Gabe us and isn't another Hazen or Wagner that can't contribute as a freshman. With scholarships tight, it's gotta be a player that can legitimately contribute or they must cede to a more talented player at a different position, IMO. Or a grad transfer that they know can contribute.

[zebradynasty]

Depends on the player. But we aren't recruiting any and it's pretty late in the game for 2018 to expect to find a reliable prospect for that class. If Gafford goes pro after the season, then we could say the staff should have some time to look at their options on 2019 prep bigs that could be worth it. But if Gafford comes back, and I think he ultimately will after testing the waters, we're fine. Gabe is a fine backup for Gafford. Gabe has potential to be more than what Trey Thompson turned out to be. Gabe was a great signing late and if the staff does decide to go find a prep big if a scholarship becomes available, we'll have to hope that players has the promise that Gabe us and isn't another Hazen or Wagner that can't contribute as a freshman. With scholarships tight, it's gotta be a player that can legitimately contribute or they must cede to a more talented player at a different position, IMO. Or a grad transfer that they know can contribute.

Gabe has shown nothing so far that would indicate that could hold his own against taller athletic players. Good kid, plays hard and will be a good player...just not a substitute for Gafford.

[razorback1829]

I am sorry but Trey was not worth 4 years of scholarship money just to get a few decent games from him.  I am sure he is a great kid and I am glad he got his degree but I want a guy who is a much better athlete and really wants it.  Trey likes hamburgers and fried chicken much better than he loves the game of BB.

Yea bash our players. Classy. You clown.

[zebradynasty]

Tonight's game another example why we need more height! Adding more guards and small forwards is not the answer against taller skilled players. 

[Hawg Red]

Gabe has shown nothing so far that would indicate that could hold his own against taller athletic players. Good kid, plays hard and will be a good player...just not a substitute for Gafford.

Sure he has (at least defensively). You aren't watching with a clear mind.

[GuvHog]

Gabe has shown nothing so far that would indicate that could hold his own against taller athletic players. Good kid, plays hard and will be a good player...just not a substitute for Gafford.

Agreed. Gabe is much more of a Small Forward. He isn't big and strong enough to be a 4 spot player.

[zebradynasty]

Sure he has (at least defensively). You aren't watching with a clear mind.

For the most part all I've seen him guard are players similar to his size. Gabe would struggle against the 6'-9" to 6'-11" power forwards just like everyone else we have on the team. Watching with a very clear mind he is NOT a substitute center and in most offensive schemes he is not a power forward. He is a small forward in some situations he could play power forward. 

[mhuff]

Gabe is no SF and he played good defense against big players when he was in the game,if he wasn't a PF, he wouldn't be here next year. You never know anyway.

[nwahogfan1]

If there is a truly talented big man out there that wants to consider him, go for it. Otherwise, just go where the talent is. There's something to be said for having a killer backcourt and Hill - Embery - Joe - Sills - Jones - Ramsey would give us a smaller look but they would absolutely be a nightmare for opposing defenses. It then comes down to which is the bigger nightmare: our woes defending/scoring in the paint or their woes defending our deep and talented backcourt. It's a give/take. Just signing a big because that's what you think you have to do could take strength away from some other part of the team and still potentially not address things in the paint if that player isn't very good.

there are talented 6'8+ players who can play the 4/5 spot out there who are talented enough to help us next year.  He might not average 15+ a game but he might be a tremendous rebounder and athlete who can block shots.  WE need to find him.  We do not have near the recruiting info that our coaches have available.  He might not travel the AAU circuit so he might not be rated a 3+ star player but when you look at all the countries in the world that play basketball there are players out there.  I agree for the umpteen time that we should not go get a big man who can not help us but I bet a talented big man is out there if our coaches will turn over all the rocks and look. The blame is all over our coaching staff if they do not find a player. We do not need another guard.. With out Gafford coming back we will have 1 player over 220 lbs next year.  We need more big men on our team. 

[nwahogfan1]

Gabe is no SF and he played good defense against big players when he was in the game,if he wasn't a PF, he wouldn't be here next year. You never know anyway.

I think Gabe is a 3/4 combo.   He does not have the ball skills or the shot to be a 3 so he has been playing the 4 on offense but he is athletic enough to guard the 3 but unfortunately he is does not have the weight to bang around inside to be effective there.  He needs to improve his ball skills and shot or gain some weight and get more physical in the paint to really be a big asset on our team. 

[FineAsSwine]

I think Gabe is a 3/4 combo.   He does not have the ball skills or the shot to be a 3 so he has been playing the 4 on offense but he is athletic enough to guard the 3 but unfortunately he is does not have the weight to bang around inside to be effective there.  He needs to improve his ball skills and shot or gain some weight and get more physical in the paint to really be a big asset on our team.

Gabe should benefit greatly from the offseason weights and conditioning program. He has the frame to be able to add 10-12 lbs of muscle which should help him compete on the blocks for rebounds and post position.

He is already the best screen setter and charge taker on the team and added good weight will help him in that regard as well.

[Hawg Red]

there are talented 6'8+ players who can play the 4/5 spot out there who are talented enough to help us next year.  He might not average 15+ a game but he might be a tremendous rebounder and athlete who can block shots.  WE need to find him.  We do not have near the recruiting info that our coaches have available.  He might not travel the AAU circuit so he might not be rated a 3+ star player but when you look at all the countries in the world that play basketball there are players out there.  I agree for the umpteen time that we should not go get a big man who can not help us but I bet a talented big man is out there if our coaches will turn over all the rocks and look. The blame is all over our coaching staff if they do not find a player. We do not need another guard.. With out Gafford coming back we will have 1 player over 220 lbs next year.  We need more big men on our team.

So you're just assuming there are players out there, unsigned, that are good enough to take up a 4-year scholarship at a time where we have extremely limited scholarships to offer and plenty of talent candidates at other positions? But you can't give me any names.

Yeah, okay...

Again, we are in agreement that the team needs more size. Period. That's how I feel. I'd love to have more size on the team and I think that's the way to go to succeed, but I think the ship has probably sailed finding a truly talented PF or C in 2018 (assuming we even have a spot to offer). Theoretically, the staff should be able to recruit a talented big for 2019 (again, assuming there is a spot to offer as we currently have 0 openings and a player already committed who is first in line) with Gafford either going pro after this season (in which case, they will sign a grad transfer big) or after next season (which they should feel confident enough about to be able to tell recruits that they will have a scholarship for them). Will they do that? I don't know. But I'm not trying to tie up a scholarship with some 3-star that no one wanted in the early period this offseason just for the sake of saying we have some more size. I'd rather have a better player at a different position.

Staff signed a 6'8 (maybe 6'9) player in Henderson and a 6'7 (maybe 6' player in Chaney (who is close to 230 lbs), and then they filled the other scholarships with guards and a wing because we have 3 guards leaving. The backcourt is more important than size, honestly. We have to have good guards for Anderson's system to be effective. If Gafford is back next season, we'll be fine. If not, we'll likely have a grad transfer big and we'll be fine. But they do need to get on some big bodies coming up. No disagreement there.

[FineAsSwine]

So you're just assuming there are players out there, unsigned, that are good enough to take up a 4-year scholarship at a time where we have extremely limited scholarships to offer and plenty of talent candidates at other positions? But you can't give me any names.

Yeah, okay...

Again, we are in agreement that the team needs more size. Period. That's how I feel. I'd love to have more size on the team and I think that's the way to go to succeed, but I think the ship has probably sailed finding a truly talented PF or C in 2018 (assuming we even have a spot to offer). Theoretically, the staff should be able to recruit a talented big for 2019 (again, assuming there is a spot to offer as we currently have 0 openings and a player already committed who is first in line) with Gafford either going pro after this season (in which case, they will sign a grad transfer big) or after next season (which they should feel confident enough about to be able to tell recruits that they will have a scholarship for them). Will they do that? I don't know. But I'm not trying to tie up a scholarship with some 3-star that no one wanted in the early period this offseason just for the sake of saying we have some more size. I'd rather have a better player at a different position.

Staff signed a 6'8 (maybe 6'9) player in Henderson and a 6'7 (maybe 6' player in Chaney (who is close to 230 lbs), and then they filled the other scholarships with guards and a wing because we have 3 guards leaving. The backcourt is more important than size, honestly. We have to have good guards for Anderson's system to be effective. If Gafford is back next season, we'll be fine. If not, we'll likely have a grad transfer big and we'll be fine. But they do need to get on some big bodies coming up. No disagreement there.

This should end the discussion but I'm pretty sure it won't. Great answer though. One day, when Jesus returns and brings peace, we will win the Internet with logic and reason. Until then....

[hogwood]

I'm not sure if the staff would be interested in taking on a transfer with the limited scholarship situation but with Tubby out at Memphis I wonder if Victor Enoh (6'8" 240 PF very much like Chaney as a recruit) would be looking to transfer. He was a big target for us in the fall of 2017 and we were easily his #2. Not ideal to have a transfer at this point but he could be a good roster addition regardless.

He only averaged about 1.5 ppg and 8 mpg this year but I don't think he's limited to that low of production.

[FineAsSwine]

I'm not sure if the staff would be interested in taking on a transfer with the limited scholarship situation but with Tubby out at Memphis I wonder if Victor Enoh (6'8" 240 PF very much like Chaney as a recruit) would be looking to transfer. He was a big target for us in the fall of 2017 and we were easily his #2. Not ideal to have a transfer at this point but he could be a good roster addition regardless.

He only averaged about 1.5 ppg and 8 mpg this year but I don't think he's limited to that low of production.

No Enoh for me please. I'd rather wait until 2019. Gotta be somebody better than that to replace Gafford.

[zebradynasty]

I think finding a quality graduate transfer that's tall, athletic and skilled at this date would be much harder than finding a long athletic athlete that might not be skilled but needs developing.

[redleg]

No Enoh for me please. I'd rather wait until 2019. Gotta be somebody better than that to replace Gafford.

There are no more scholies to go around unless someone transfers, or someone leaves early (like Gafford probably will).
People seem to forget Razorback history. Richardson's Runts won the 1993 SEC West division, and made it to the Sweet 16 (where they lost to eventual national champion UNC ← irony!). Dwight Stewart was the tallest player on the team at 6'9". Nolan signed three players in the 1994 class: Al Dillard 6'1 shooting guard, Darnell Robinson 6'11" center, and Lee Wilson 6'11" center. Remember what happened the next year?!
Now I am not saying the players on this team are THAT good. But to win consistently, even a team that wants an uptempo style of play MUST have some true size in the paint! Athletic 6'8" and 6'9" players aren't going to cut it versus 6'11" and 7'0" game in and game out!
Get real.

[zebradynasty]

There are no more scholies to go around unless someone transfers, or someone leaves early (like Gafford probably will).
People seem to forget Razorback history. Richardson's Runts won the 1993 SEC West division, and made it to the Sweet 16 (where they lost to eventual national champion UNC ← irony!). Dwight Stewart was the tallest player on the team at 6'9". Nolan signed three players in the 1994 class: Al Dillard 6'1 shooting guard, Darnell Robinson 6'11" center, and Lee Wilson 6'11" center. Remember what happened the next year?!
Now I am not saying the players on this team are THAT good. But to win consistently, even a team that wants an uptempo style of play MUST have some true size in the paint! Athletic 6'8" and 6'9" players aren't going to cut it versus 6'11" and 7'0" game in and game out!
Get real.

The thing about the Championship team is that it was versatile. We had outside game all day OR we could bang it inside in a variety of ways. To be honest on that team Robinson, Stewart, and Wilson were not beast inside but they were big and athletic and each had their own skillset. We don't have 2-3 monsters in the middle that can get a double double every night. Now that would be real nice.... but our system doesn't require it but you at least need some height with competent big men than hold their own in the paint offensively and defensively. If we want to get to the sweet 16 more regularly that's what its going to take.