College Football Playoff

[parallaxpig]

With all the crying about conference champions not being in playoffs, do you think BIG10 would have chosen Penn St over Ohio State given the chance.  I say no. 

[kodiakisland]

That's not the point.  The point is the rules keep changing.  Just two years ago we heard how important conference championships were and how important head to head games were.  Now those aren't important.  The rules keep changing on what must be done to get in.  It's total crap.

Every division of college football not D1 has a playoff.  Why can't D1?  You should know how to get in to the playoff before the season begins.  Finish X in your division/conference and you're in.  No opinions.  No rule changes.  No leeway.  Even high school football can have a real playoff.  The current system sucks.  No reason they can't fix it.

[Atlhogfan1]

That's not the point.  The point is the rules keep changing.  Just two years ago we heard how important conference championships were and how important head to head games were.  Now those aren't important.  The rules keep changing on what must be done to get in.  It's total crap.

Every division of college football not D1 has a playoff.  Why can't D1?  You should know how to get in to the playoff before the season begins.  Finish X in your division/conference and you're in.  No opinions.  No rule changes.  No leeway.  Even high school football can have a real playoff.  The current system sucks.  No reason they can't fix it.

Their criteria is published.  It was published before the season and it addresses conference champions.

FBS does have a playoff.  If what you want were to ever be the case, the current conferences would have to be revised or dismantled.  It would be breaking or changing contracts worth hundreds of millions of dollars.  Would affect scheduling and programs' brands.

[kodiakisland]

The "criteria" is crap as it is based on opinion.  Some years they will put more importance on some of it and other years ignore it. We should not have to pick teams based on opinion.  FBS does not have a playoff.  FBS has a 4 team tournament of the most popular teams of a small group of people.

[Atlhogfan1]

The "criteria" is crap as it is based on opinion.  Some years they will put more importance on some of it and other years ignore it. We should not have to pick teams based on opinion.  FBS does not have a playoff.  FBS has a 4 team tournament of the most popular teams of a small group of people.

The lack of competitive balance and only having the 5 power conferences due to the creation of the 12-14 team super conferences would make it hard to go to a high school or NFL-like playoff of just conference champions.  Break them up and have a new mix of 8 conferences destroying all current tv deals and you could a playoff.  Is it worth it? 

[Trystran]

To just answer your question... they would have chosen OSU every time. $ for one reason. The other is this stupid infatuation people and the media have with OSU in general.

[ZERO]

The criteria is the same. It's intuitively understood, though not explicitly stated: Finish the season with as few or fewer losses as everyone else. Penn State has two losses and were ranked lower before the B1G CG. Ohio State has one loss and was ranked higher before the B1G CG. Penn State is supposed to jump four spaces, and Ohio State is supposed to drop two, even though they didn't lose or even play a game? That would be an even bigger outcry.

This year is just one of those years where the wrong things fell into place. That happens, sometimes. Last year, Oklahoma got in with one loss. Yes, they were the conference champs, but they didn't play a conference championship game to decide that like everyone else did. They didn't have that final test against a quality opponent, and they didn't take a risk of losing to said quality opponent and knocking themselves out of the race. Oklahoma essentially got a bye week. They got in over the Pac-12 champ Stanford, and even though Stanford played and won a CG, they still had two losses. How is that situation honestly and practically any different from this years? Nobody made a fuss about it last season.

If you want in the playoffs, don't lose two games unless everyone else has lost two games. Simple and fair.

[NuttinItUp]

The "criteria" is to get the best 4 teams in the playoff.

The conference championships play a part, but they have never been the ultimate factor.

[hogsanity]

Their criteria is published.  It was published before the season and it addresses conference champions.

FBS does have a playoff.  If what you want were to ever be the case, the current conferences would have to be revised or dismantled.  It would be breaking or changing contracts worth hundreds of millions of dollars.  Would affect scheduling and programs' brands.

FBS is the only playoff in college or professional sports where at least some of the participants can not get in solely by winning something ( a conf or division title ). Only in FBS are all the participants CHOSEN by a committee.

[longpig]

That's not the point.  The point is the rules keep changing.  Just two years ago we heard how important conference championships were and how important head to head games were.  Now those aren't important.  The rules keep changing on what must be done to get in.  It's total crap.

Every division of college football not D1 has a playoff.  Why can't D1?  You should know how to get in to the playoff before the season begins.  Finish X in your division/conference and you're in.  No opinions.  No rule changes.  No leeway.  Even high school football can have a real playoff.  The current system sucks.  No reason they can't fix it.

To start with, there are no 'rules' to get in.  Being a conference champion or winning a head to head helps a teams case, but doesn't necessarily decide it.   Penn. St. did a WHOLE lot this season to undo that head to head and conference championship.  Had 4th and 25 not happened do you think OM would be the better selection over Bama for the 2015 playoff? 

[longpig]

FBS is the only playoff in college or professional sports where at least some of the participants can not get in solely by winning something ( a conf or division title ). Only in FBS are all the participants CHOSEN by a committee.

And this is what makes it better.

[code red]

Currently the Hogs aren't ranked so I fail to see how it matters.

[hogsanity]

And this is what makes it better.

How? How is it better that there is no set way for a team to win its way into the "playoff"?

[longpig]

How? How is it better that there is no set way for a team to win its way into the "playoff"?

There's a set way and Penn. St. understands it better than anyone.  They lost one too many games and suffered an embarrassing loss. 

What's so hard to understand about that?

[parallaxpig]

Currently the Hogs aren't ranked so I fail to see how it matters.

If your a college football fan then it matters. 

[hogsanity]

There's a set way and Penn. St. understands it better than anyone.  They lost one too many games and suffered an embarrassing loss. 

What's so hard to understand about that?

this has nothing to do with PN St. There is no definitive way to get in except be one of the committee's choices. Even in the ncaat in basketball and baseball 30+ teams know exactly how they will get in, they will win their conference tourney ( or reg season if they have no tourney ).

[hoghiker]

There's a set way and Penn. St. understands it better than anyone.  They lost one too many games and suffered an embarrassing loss. 

What's so hard to understand about that?

They won their championship game and beat the team that is going in a head to head. Those two things add up to a legitimate burn.

[parallaxpig]

To just answer your question... they would have chosen OSU every time. $ for one reason. The other is this stupid infatuation people and the media have with OSU in general.

Until we get to a 6-8 team playoff then the current CF will continue. As long as "The Brand" and people in room choosing then it will be unfair. You get the five power five champs and 1-3 at large then you will make it fairer.  The 1-3 at large will still be subjective but it at least  you get conf champs a guaranteed ticket.

[hogsanity]

Currently the Hogs aren't ranked so I fail to see how it matters.

OK. Next year the Hogs go 12-1 and win the sec, but the committee "feels" that their body of work just is not quite as good as Bama, who went 11-1 but lost the head to head with the hogs, did not win their division or their conf, but the committee picks bama over the hogs, will you care then? If so you should care now because that is how the system is set up.

[311Hog]

OK. Next year the Hogs go 12-1 and win the sec, but the committee "feels" that their body of work just is not quite as good as Bama, who went 11-1 but lost the head to head with the hogs, did not win their division or their conf, but the committee picks bama over the hogs, will you care then? If so you should care now because that is how the system is set up.

pretty much this exactly.  Some teams (BAma, OSU, etc.) get a pass they get the benefit of their history and over all powers that be mancrush.  It is why so many were talking about PSU and Washington why? because they are the new kids to the table when anyone with eyes knows you should have been talking about PSU and OSU, but OSU being royalty and Meyer being everyone's "only hope to beat Saban" they were getting in regardless.

[NuttinItUp]

OK. Next year the Hogs go 12-1 and win the sec, but the committee "feels" that their body of work just is not quite as good as Bama, who went 11-1 but lost the head to head with the hogs, did not win their division or their conf, but the committee picks bama over the hogs, will you care then? If so you should care now because that is how the system is set up.

For it to be a legit comparison, the Hogs will have needed to go 11-2 and lost at least one to a mediocre team while Alabama went 11-1.

[longpig]

They won their championship game and beat the team that is going in a head to head. Those two things add up to a legitimate burn.

That team you mention that is going only had one close loss to a very good team who went on to win a conference championship. Not two losses, a close one to a struggling team and a blowout.

[longpig]

The "criteria" is crap as it is based on opinion.  Some years they will put more importance on some of it and other years ignore it. We should not have to pick teams based on opinion.  FBS does not have a playoff.  FBS has a 4 team tournament of the most popular teams of a small group of people.

That's weird, because I'm dumber than average and after the first half of the first year of CFP, have predicted who they would pick each week because their criteria is consistent and predictable.  It isn't rocket politics.

[hogsanity]

For it to be a legit comparison, the Hogs will have needed to go 11-2 and lost at least one to a mediocre team while Alabama went 11-1.

NO, because I am not comparing it to anything, simply saying the committee can pick whoever they want, REGARDLESS of head to head or conf title or anything else. That is the way it is set up.

[NuttinItUp]

NO, because I am not comparing it to anything, simply saying the committee can pick whoever they want, REGARDLESS of head to head or conf title or anything else. That is the way it is set up.

That is true: They are tasked with picking the best 4 teams, regardless of any other factor.

I don't disagree with that.

[longpig]

pretty much this exactly.  Some teams (BAma, OSU, etc.) get a pass they get the benefit of their history and over all powers that be mancrush.  It is why so many were talking about PSU and Washington why? because they are the new kids to the table when anyone with eyes knows you should have been talking about PSU and OSU, but OSU being royalty and Meyer being everyone's "only hope to beat Saban" they were getting in regardless.

Why did one loss OSU not go to the playoffs last season and one loss Michigan State did?

[311Hog]

Why did one loss OSU not go to the playoffs last season and one loss Michigan State did?

because MSU is a bigger name (better story line etc.) then PSU i bet you it was super close.

[hogsanity]

That is true: They are tasked with picking the best 4 teams, regardless of any other factor.

I don't disagree with that.

It is the only "playoff" where not one team can go into the season knowing exactly what they have to do to get in. You can go undefeated an not get in. You can lose a game, not win your division or league and make it. Theoretically you could lose 3 or 4 games, and if the committee still thought you were one of the top 4 teams, because of whatever reasoning they came up with, put you in the playoff.

[311Hog]

It is the only "playoff" where not one team can go into the season knowing exactly what they have to do to get in. You can go undefeated an not get in. You can lose a game, not win your division or league and make it. Theoretically you could lose 3 or 4 games, and if the committee still thought you were one of the top 4 teams, because of whatever reasoning they came up with, put you in the playoff.

I dont agree with this.  Some teams know exactly what they need to do to get in.

1. The Bama's and OSU's of the world know if they have 1 loss or fewer they are getting in period. Especially if they happen to win their conference even with 1 loss.
2. Anyone not a "blue blood" program has to go undefeated and hope they got enough preseason hype to be initially ranked high enough to get into the 4.
3. These teams also have to hope that one of the "college football royalty" losses more than once.

Basically the football play off is always between the same 10 to 15 teams.

[longpig]

because MSU is a bigger name (better story line etc.) then PSU i bet you it was super close.

MSU's name ain't in the same ballpark with PSU's.  That aside, MSU had one close loss, beat OSU in a head to head and won the conference.  OSU had one close loss to MSU and no conference championship. 

[311Hog]

MSU's name ain't in the same ballpark with PSU's.  That aside, MSU had one close loss, beat OSU in a head to head and won the conference.  OSU had one close loss to MSU and no conference championship. 

im sorry but in the last 5 years MSU's name is LIGHT YEARS ahead of PSU's.  If someone asks me to say the first things that comes to my mind when asked about MSU and PSU.  MSU - Strong Defense, Gutty wins, Saban used to coach there.   PSU- Sandusky, Joe Pa over rated toxic environment, former D bag Vandy coach is there now.

[longpig]

I dont agree with this.  Some teams know exactly what they need to do to get in.

1. The Bama's and OSU's of the world know if they have 1 loss or fewer they are getting in period. Especially if they happen to win their conference even with 1 loss.
2. Anyone not a "blue blood" program has to go undefeated and hope they got enough preseason hype to be initially ranked high enough to get into the 4.
3. These teams also have to hope that one of the "college football royalty" losses more than once.

Basically the football play off is always between the same 10 to 15 teams.

Oregon was in the first playoff, Michigan State the 2nd, and UW the 3rd.  All hardly 'blue blood' programs or same top 10 to 15. 

[hogsanity]

I dont agree with this.  Some teams know exactly what they need to do to get in.

1. The Bama's and OSU's of the world know if they have 1 loss or fewer they are getting in period. Especially if they happen to win their conference even with 1 loss.

Really? Ohio State went 11-1 in 2015 but did not make the college football playoff. Matter of fact, Mich St, Ohio St and Iowa all had 11-1 or 12-1 records in the BIG in 2015. They are just as in the dark about it as anyone else. There are no guarantees. Going undefeated is no guarantee. Winning your conference is no guarantee.

[longpig]

Really? Ohio State went 11-1 in 2015 but did not make the college football playoff. Matter of fact, Mich St, Ohio St and Iowa all had 11-1 or 12-1 records in the BIG in 2015. They are just as in the dark about it as anyone else. There are no guarantees. Going undefeated is no guarantee. Winning your conference is no guarantee.

exactly

[311Hog]

Oregon was in the first playoff, Michigan State the 2nd, and UW the 3rd.  All hardly 'blue blood' programs or same top 10 to 15. 

They are the blue blood programs from the BCS era.  UW is the only outlier and he got the BCS darling in Peterson (former Boise coach).  And they were almost kicked out of the 4 because they weren't part of the "elite".

Here let me list the programs that will almost always be in the playoff.

Bama, OSU, FSU, Clemson, Mich, USC, Oklahoma

The rest of the 10 to 15 will be filled by a hand full of schools always from the power 5 like LSU, Florida, maybe UW now with Peterson and the fall of Oregon.

Basically what i am saying is the top 2 teams from the power 5 will always populate the play off and the top 2 teams from the power 5 conferences are pretty much the same teams year in and year out.

[311Hog]

Really? Ohio State went 11-1 in 2015 but did not make the college football playoff. Matter of fact, Mich St, Ohio St and Iowa all had 11-1 or 12-1 records in the BIG in 2015. They are just as in the dark about it as anyone else. There are no guarantees. Going undefeated is no guarantee. Winning your conference is no guarantee.

They are from the same conference.  In case you haven't noticed it is pretty much regional this play off as long as all 4 regions cooperate and produce an undefeated or 1 loss team.

in the case where one region produces more than 1 team that fits this criteria then tie breakers/program prestige/commitee bias gets broken out.

[longpig]

They are from the same conference.  In case you haven't noticed it is pretty much regional this play off as long as all 4 regions cooperate and produce an undefeated or 1 loss team.

in the case where one region produces more than 1 team that fits this criteria then tie breakers/program prestige/commitee bias gets broken out.

You really do think this cfp thing is some sort of devious contrived conspiracy money making scheme, don't you cuz? 

It's hardly that complicated.

[311Hog]

You really do think this cfp thing is some sort of devious contrived conspiracy money making scheme, don't you cuz? 

It's hardly that complicated.

eh making money is pretty big on the list of goals for this playoff.  If it wasn't then they woulda dropped the bowls along time ago.

I think there is a very strong regional element to though.  I mean in the BCS/Playoff time frame a few times one conference has "seemed" to have 2 to 3 of the "best teams" but only gets 1 maybe 2 in the big games this is due in large part to the "need" to not exclude or lose entire regions of the country from the interested public.

I mean imagine if this year the playoff was, Bama, OSU, Mich, PSU  do you think that group of 4 would really pull more ratings then the 4 we have now where the entire country from coast to coast is represented?

I think that certain programs are untouchable weather they deserve it or not, i also think that the powers that be are actively trying to stop Bama and Saban a little bit which honestly makes some sense.

[longpig]

eh making money is pretty big on the list of goals for this playoff.  If it wasn't then they woulda dropped the bowls along time ago.

I think there is a very strong regional element to though.  I mean in the BCS/Playoff time frame a few times one conference has "seemed" to have 2 to 3 of the "best teams" but only gets 1 maybe 2 in the big games this is due in large part to the "need" to not exclude or lose entire regions of the country from the interested public.

I mean imagine if this year the playoff was, Bama, OSU, Mich, PSU  do you think that group of 4 would really pull more ratings then the 4 we have now where the entire country from coast to coast is represented?

I think that certain programs are untouchable weather they deserve it or not, i also think that the powers that be are actively trying to stop Bama and Saban a little bit which honestly makes some sense.

They didn't force fit a West coast team last year, or a Big 12 team the year before that, leaving the western 1/3 of the country unrepresented one year and the middle 1/3 of it the next.  Because the best four teams didn't include a West coast team or a Big 12 team. 
You can't honestly say PSU and/or Michigan would not have gotten in had UW and/or Clemson lost one more in their championship matchup. 

[311Hog]

They didn't force fit a West coast team last year, or a Big 12 team the year before that, leaving the western 1/3 of the country unrepresented one year and the middle 1/3 of it the next.  Because the best four teams didn't include a West coast team or a Big 12 team. 
You can't honestly say PSU and/or Michigan would not have gotten in had UW and/or Clemson lost one more in their championship matchup. 

when i did i say they would force it? i simply said as long as the 4 regions produced an undefeated/1 loss team they would be in with almost 99% certainty my point was that teams know damn well what it takes to get into the play off.

and we know damn well which teams are probably going to be in year and year out the same teams that dominated the BCS era for the most part.

I mean it is a new world in the sense that now when a team that has been "tapped" as elite loses once say by a blocked kick returned for a score they do not fall an inch in the rankings where as in the past in the AP poll days that team would be banished for the season unless insanty transpired.

The system isn't bad off i just have a hard time believing people when they act like the system isn't almost entirely predictable.

[longpig]

when i did i say they would force it? i simply said as long as the 4 regions produced an undefeated/1 loss team they would be in with almost 99% certainty my point was that teams know damn well what it takes to get into the play off.

and we know damn well which teams are probably going to be in year and year out the same teams that dominated the BCS era for the most part.

I mean it is a new world in the sense that now when a team that has been "tapped" as elite loses once say by a blocked kick returned for a score they do not fall an inch in the rankings where as in the past in the AP poll days that team would be banished for the season unless insanty transpired.

The system isn't bad off i just have a hard time believing people when they act like the system isn't almost entirely predictable.

Teams move up and down in the AP poll now no different than they always have. 

[311Hog]

Teams move up and down in the AP poll now no different than they always have. 

yeah but no one gives a crap about the AP poll now.  The only thing that matters is the 4 team playoff and then a little bit of care is paid to the new year 6 bowls everything else is extra practices.

[12247]

This playoff system is about the best we have had but it is still operated by humans and that is the rub.  I promise you making sure regions of the country are represented is very important.  Could PSU beat UW on a neutral field?  I say likely they could.  Could OSU beat PSU on a neutral field this coming weekend though they lost by 3 points to PSU at PSU earlier. Probably they could.  PSU lost twice making those problems mute.  The playoff committee is loving PSU for losing twice.  This way they can include UW in the playoff and include the western region without difficulty. 

The SEC west can and has had two teams in the top 4 at the end of the season.  So what should happen if next year BAMA is first, Ohio St. 2nd, OK 3rd, LSU 4th, USC 5th with both LSU and USC with one loss, but USC won conference thus being 12-1 while LSU is 11-1.  Who goes to the playoff.  I say USC and it will be justified by 1. BAMA has already beat LSU once and 2. lets try to represent as much of the USA as we can, and 3, USC has more wins overall.  Never mind that LSU would likely beat them head up on a neutral field.

[12247]

I actually caré about the polls, all of them.  Early polls no, but later in the season I like to know where Arkansas stands.  Even now I want to know where our 7-5 team is rated.

[kodiakisland]

I personally don't give a crap who is in the playoffs this year because Bama at this point is the clear #1.

The system sucks, period.  It is based on opinion.  Two years ago TCU and Baylor were told conference title games and head to head meant more than overall record.  This year that's out the window.  Teams were told non conference schedule matters, but then look at Washington.  The selection is based on opinion.  Name another championship in any other sport that decides a champion based on someones opinion.

Whatever criteria the selection committee (that term should repulse you) uses changes year to year to justify picking whichever team they want in.  Next year they could just as easily keep out a better but unpopular team by placing more importance on head to head and conference championship.

Stop picking teams by opinion!  Win on the field, not in some backroom meeting.

[longpig]

yeah but no one gives a crap about the AP poll now.  The only thing that matters is the 4 team playoff and then a little bit of care is paid to the new year 6 bowls everything else is extra practices.

They give a crap about it till the CFP poll takes over.

[Hogarusa]

Good to have a new daily CFP thread up, i too was bored with the others

[Dr. Starcs]

And don't forget the all important (albeit) subjective "eye test".

[RazorbackToTheFuture]

If your a college football fan then it matters.

If you're in a spelling bee it matters.