ESPN Channeling Elite Recruits?

[WizardofhOgZ]

Was listening to Mike and Mike (ESPN Radio) for part of my morning commute.  They were talking to Chad Ford, The Mel Kiper equivalent for the NBA Draft.

The part I caught involved the Simmons kid from LSU.  Ford said he is the only player who had a chance to be "transcendent" in this year's draft.  Mike and Mike followed that up with a question about, if that was the case, why was he so mediocre this past season at LSU?

Ford's response caught me off guard.  He said "Because he made a mistake and didn't sign with Kentucky, Duke or North Carolina".  M and M asked what he meant, and he said that not playing with other players near to his ability caused him to alter his game to such a degree that it restricted him, to his disadvantage.  He should have been more "selfish" instead of trying to please his teammates, according to Ford.  Also, Ford made the point that in many games, there were a lot of NBA scouts there to see Simmons, but that the other LSU players viewed it as their chance to showcase THEIR ability for the NBA.  The net results is that they didn't pass the ball to Simmons when they should have, which obviously impacted his performance.

Of course, this made me think about the Monk situation.  Usually, my pat answer for any of these superstars (whatever sport) is that "no matter where they play (D1), the NFL/NBA/MLB will find them".  And, I think that's true.  But Ford brings up some things that - if I'm being honest - I hadn't really factored in.  The related question, of course, is should someone from ESPN be making comments like this that have such a profound impact on recruits?

Anyway, I thought it was interesting enough to bring it to the board for discussion.  Remember - it was Ford that made these comments on National radio . . . I'm just bringing it here (i.e., "don't kill the messenger").

[Dr. Starcs]

And they're giving Calipari an entire hour Thursday morning in studio on first take.

[lynbug]

I'll have to see his "transcendence" in the NBA to believe it.  I'm no skills expert but something did happen last year at LSU.  Simmons was supposed to resurrect that program and it didn't happen and I think a national sports analyst making that comment about "he should have gone to Kentucky, North Carolina, etc"  just gives more credence to these impressionable young guys that those schools are their tickets to success and, quite frankly, to me it's insulting to other D1 schools.  I've always believed that if a college athlete has the talent the NBA will find it (Scottie Pippen?)

[ArkansasI]

How do you make any sense of Ford's analogy?

Based upon what you've described, a team with all superstars would each have to be "selfish" to showcase his talent.  And how is a team full of superstar recruits doing less to showcase their talents before NBA scouts?

Bottom line, did Simmons's decision to attend LSU adversely affect his draft position?  Doesn't sound like it.  So Simmons will not be "hurt" by his decision to play for LSU v. one of the others that Ford prescribed.

[Biggus Piggus]

The mistake was going to LSU, not in failing to go to one of the few ESPN-preferred names.

[mbgrulz]

Simmons certainly has the skills to be a perinnial all star. You don't see many guys 6'10" and that skilled. he can play a lot of different positions easily. The deal for him will be his mental makeup. Is he a warrior? Or is he just doing it to make $?

[King Kong]

His mistake was playing for a bad coach.

[HardingHog]

Adding to the OP's statement: During the season I saw many of the mid-day shows (Around the Horn, PTI, etc) talking about the subject of "Is Simmons playing at LSU bad for basketball?". Their reasoning was that since he wasn't at the Blue Blood schools we didn't get to see as much of him and see all of his potential in college. Along those lines was that his team eventually didn't make the NCAA Tournament either

As a Hog fan this obviously perplexed me because other top 50 kids will hear this and think they have to pick from 1 of like 5 ESPN-approved programs for them to make it to the League

[RealHog]

And they're giving Calipari an entire hour Thursday morning in studio on first take.

Geez you have to admire his self promotion skills. I wonder it it is supreme self confidence, constant need of external approval, or both. He playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers as far as promoting a brand. I guess that just makes any win against them twice as sweet.

[Atlhogfan1]

Was listening to Mike and Mike (ESPN Radio) for part of my morning commute.  They were talking to Chad Ford, The Mel Kiper equivalent for the NBA Draft.

The part I caught involved the Simmons kid from LSU.  Ford said he is the only player who had a chance to be "transcendent" in this year's draft.  Mike and Mike followed that up with a question about, if that was the case, why was he so mediocre this past season at LSU?

Ford's response caught me off guard.  He said "Because he made a mistake and didn't sign with Kentucky, Duke or North Carolina".  M and M asked what he meant, and he said that not playing with other players near to his ability caused him to alter his game to such a degree that it restricted him, to his disadvantage.  He should have been more "selfish" instead of trying to please his teammates, according to Ford.  Also, Ford made the point that in many games, there were a lot of NBA scouts there to see Simmons, but that the other LSU players viewed it as their chance to showcase THEIR ability for the NBA.  The net results is that they didn't pass the ball to Simmons when they should have, which obviously impacted his performance.

Of course, this made me think about the Monk situation.  Usually, my pat answer for any of these superstars (whatever sport) is that "no matter where they play (D1), the NFL/NBA/MLB will find them".  And, I think that's true.  But Ford brings up some things that - if I'm being honest - I hadn't really factored in.  The related question, of course, is should someone from ESPN be making comments like this that have such a profound impact on recruits?

Anyway, I thought it was interesting enough to bring it to the board for discussion.  Remember - it was Ford that made these comments on National radio . . . I'm just bringing it here (i.e., "don't kill the messenger").

This was brought up here during Monk's recruitment.  But as you can see by the responses so far, it wasn't received well and dismissed by most. 

I don't know if Ford is correct or not.  It is just an opinion.  I do think it is something elite recruits should consider if they are planning to be one and done. 

Adding to the OP's statement: During the season I saw many of the mid-day shows (Around the Horn, PTI, etc) talking about the subject of "Is Simmons playing at LSU bad for basketball?". Their reasoning was that since he wasn't at the Blue Blood schools we didn't get to see as much of him and see all of his potential in college. Along those lines was that his team eventually didn't make the NCAA Tournament either

As a Hog fan this obviously perplexed me because other top 50 kids will hear this and think they have to pick from 1 of like 5 ESPN-approved programs for them to make it to the League

I heard some of the ESPN conversation.  What I took from it was it wasn't good for college basketball when LSU and Simmons didn't make the NCAAT. 

[BRHogfan]

His mistake was playing for a bad coach.

Well you say that, but Malik Newman didn't look great playing for a good coach at Miss. St.

That being said, Johnny Jones sucks...

[Hogimus Prime]

Ford is tool.  Of course ESPN and most of the older talking heads don't like it when a big time recruit doesn't go to a blue blood school. 

Simmons and LSU's problem was their head coach. 

[HoopS]

He played for one of the worst coaches around. And here he sits, waiting to sign that contract about to be offered to him as the NUMBER 1 overall pick. Blue blood didn't make a hill of beans difference.  Can't get picked any higher and he's doing it from a mediocre program.

[Atlhogfan1]

He played for one of the worst coaches around. And here he sits, waiting to sign that contract about to be offered to him as the NUMBER 1 overall pick. Blue blood didn't make a hill of beans difference.  Can't get picked any higher and he's doing it from a mediocre program.

The question asked was why was he mediocre at LSU.  Not that it negatively affected his draft position. 

[King Kong]

Well you say that, but Malik Newman didn't look great playing for a good coach at Miss. St.

That being said, Johnny Jones sucks...

skal labissiere and Briscoe Didn't look look much better at UK which is having the most impressive NBA run in history

[HoopS]

The question asked was why was he mediocre at LSU.  Not that it negatively affected his draft position. 

the team results were mediocre. He was just fine when I watched and his talent was obvious. My point, is that all of the crap we heard about needing to go to blue blood schools for one and dones clearly was a load of crap. His team was mediocre. He's about to bank more than any of those Kentucky, Duke or Carolina blue bloods.

[clutch]

I get what he is saying. It does make sense that being around worse talent will bring a players game down. I've seen a lot of kids that didn't impress me much in high school games, but found a whole new level in AAU ball. This usually had to do with what they had surrounding them.

I think recruits definitely consider this. It sucks for us as a program because it hurts us. I understand their reasoning though. Simmons was one of those players that was going #1 pretty much no matter what he did in college. There's a lot of other "blue chip" players that that isn't the case for though. It's usually understood that they will be first round picks, but where in the first round is usually determined by their success in college.

Probably a bad example since he, or his team, didn't live up to the hype during his college time, but Archie Goodwin is an example of what I'm saying. He was considered a 1 and done before he arrived in Kentucky. Nobody knew where he would get drafted though. He was pretty much just using his one year to improve his draft stock and get drafted as high as possible. Unfortunately for him, he didn't play that great and a team that was supposed to be pretty good didn't play that great and he ended up getting drafted a little later than he expected.

So I think this can go both ways. Usually a big time program gives them more exposure to increase their draft stock, but if that team happens to underperform then it can hurt it.

I'm still a believer of the if you have talent, they will find you stuff. It's true. There's so many pre-draft camps and things that they will see you if you are good enough. If they already know you are good enough though then the program you choose might make the difference between top 10 or 20. Exposure is always good if you capitalize on it. The more you get the better.

I honestly think if Portis would have had the exact same season he had his final year, but played for Kentucky, he would have been drafted higher. SEC POY from Kentucky is just going to be disgustingly publicized, whereas you didn't hear much about it since he played for Arkansas. You heard far more about the Kentucky guys, who he beat out for the award. It didn't seem right.

I hate that it is like that since I'm a Hog fan, but that's the way I see the world of college basketball right now. One reason that I'm not near as big of a basketball fan anymore. The only way I see this improving is if the one-and done rule goes away. Other than that, we just have to recruit better. Build up a solid surrounding cast that big time in-state guys won't be worried about playing with. It's fun to be the star, and the face of a program, but it's definitely a lot more fun if you are winning. These guys know that it takes more than 1 player to win.

[ShadowHawg]

He's still going to be the top pick do how would going to Kentucky actually have made him anyway more money?

[lynbug]

If I was an LSU fan I would feel a little bit cheated after last year.  Obviously, to Simmons honing his skills was his priority.  Wonder what kind of team player he will be in the NBA 

[hobhog]

Top talent players have gone to lesser schools and carried thier teams to runs in March Madness for decades, going back to Larry Bird all the way up to Curry. Too many others to name.

I call BS on Ford.

[lynbug]

Top talent players have gone to lesser schools and carried thier teams to runs in March Madness for decades, going back to Larry Bird all the way up to Curry. Too many others to name.

I call BS on Ford.

Totally agree.  More than one time last season when LSU was in a tight game, I thought Simmons acted as though it was more trouble than it was worth to give that extra push at the end.  I just don't think LSU got their due reward for that recruit.

[husker71]

Let me compare him to two players with similar skill sets (although I am not comparing Simmons to them personally)   Bird in college had no other talent around him unless you think Carl Nicks was something.  Alex Gilbert could only jump high and had no offensive game and Heaton was a marginal college ball player.  Bird led this untalented team to the final game. Magic had two other ballers who were good on his team.  Kelser was talented but now looking back I wonder if alot of that was just playing with Magic and getting easy shots.  Jay Vincent was talented and some say could have really been something with more passion.  Again I wonder if playing with Magic made him overated.  Did Simmons make anybody on that team a better player??  Not sure.  By the way  Indiana State coach King never had another even decent team and Jud Heathcote had some strong recruiting classes but never had another really good team that I remember.  I saw little passion in Simmons game.  Just the opposite of Bird and Magic.

[HogBreath]

the team results were mediocre. He was just fine when I watched and his talent was obvious. My point, is that all of the crap we heard about needing to go to blue blood schools for one and dones clearly was a load of crap. His team was mediocre. He's about to bank more than any of those Kentucky, Duke or Carolina blue bloods.

Exactly right...it's amazing how so many can't see the forest for the trees.

[clutch]

He's still going to be the top pick do how would going to Kentucky actually have made him anyway more money?

I don't think he's arguing that it hurt his draft stock. He's just saying it hurt his performance. He would have looked better on a better team.

[clutch]

Top talent players have gone to lesser schools and carried thier teams to runs in March Madness for decades, going back to Larry Bird all the way up to Curry. Too many others to name.

I call BS on Ford.

Yes, but not everyone is a Bird or Curry. We are talking about top rated high school players, but Larry Bird type players don't come out of high school every year. Most of them, regardless of where they are rated, need others to help them make runs in the tournament.

[Pig in the Pokey]

Simmons certainly has the skills to be a perinnial all star. You don't see many guys 6'10" and that skilled. he can play a lot of different positions easily. The deal for him will be his mental makeup. Is he a warrior? Or is he just doing it to make $?

In the NBA use see a lot of guys like Simmons. Not all of them are 6'10, some are 6'9-7'0 with guard skills. Hell, even some guys at 6'8" have 7'2"+ wingspans and the handles and J to go with it. Simmons will be a decent NBA player. Not even a all-star, though. Maybe a starter.

[Razorbackers]

He's still going to be the top pick do how would going to Kentucky actually have made him anyway more money?

He would have made more money while at Kentucky than he did at LSU, probably 

[Big Nasty 34]

In the NBA use see a lot of guys like Simmons. Not all of them are 6'10, some are 6'9-7'0 with guard skills. Hell, even some guys at 6'8" have 7'2"+ wingspans and the handles and J to go with it. Simmons will be a decent NBA player. Not even a all-star, though. Maybe a starter.

Please list 3 that aren't top 15 players.

[Big Nasty 34]

He would have made more money while at Kentucky than he did at LSU, probably 

Idk, it must've taken A LOT of money to get him to go play at LSU lol

[hoglady]

Idk, it must've taken A LOT of money to get him to go play at LSU lol

My understanding LSU assistant coach David Patrick is Simmons Godfather and best friends with his Dad.
Simmons was probably always going to play for this guy no matter where he was coaching.

[husker71]

not many 6'10" with Simmons handle and passing abilities.  If he has the want to to win games and play at least passing lane defense and good defense at crucial times AND he plays for the right coach he could be an allstar for years.  But lots of ifs   but if I had the 1st pick I would take him.

[root_hawg]

He went to LSU because of the god father, do believe that his game diminished a little as he seemed to get bored playing with guys he couldn't count on.  Also if I remember correctly didn't their best outside shooter and probably 2nd best player get hurt down the stretch, could be mixing up teams.

[RacinRazorback]

ESPN should be called the Kentucky Promo Network! That's pretty much all they do is pimp for Cal and the Cats! I don't watch anymore because of it. BTW, how in the world did Skal Lab...... go in the first round? Tallk about OVER RATED!

[farfromgroovins]

Yes, but not everyone is a Bird or Curry. We are talking about top rated high school players, but Larry Bird type players don't come out of high school every year. Most of them, regardless of where they are rated, need others to help them make runs in the tournament.

Yep, all draft classes are not created equal. Only a few produce a Bird, Magic, LeBron, Jordan that go on to become some of the best we've ever seen. Simmons' talent was there and deserved the #1 pick....this year. But I doubt we will be making the same comments about Simmons in 10 years that we make about LeBron and Curry today.

[clutch]

Yep, all draft classes are not created equal. Only a few produce a Bird, Magic, LeBron, Jordan that go on to become some of the best we've ever seen. Simmons' talent was there and deserved the #1 pick....this year. But I doubt we will be making the same comments about Simmons in 10 years that we make about LeBron and Curry today.

I'd agree with that. Chances are we won't. Those type of players don't come along very often, so there's a much better chance of him being just a good NBA player and not someone who we consider great.