Why is Everyone Bowing up for a Fight?

[The Hogfather]

We've had respectability;  we've even been good.

Our struggles have *entirely* been limited to a period of only 37 games.    A standard rebuild from the ground up is going to take at least twice that long.

I think it is hilarious that most of the Pelphrey detractors think that 1.5-2 years is enough to complete a ground-to-ceiling rebuild.

[cmiller01]

16 points in the second half is all I have to say.

[ErieHog]

I think it is hilarious that most of the Pelphrey detractors think that 1.5-2 years is enough to complete a ground-to-ceiling rebuild.

Right now, it's barely at a year of struggling.

Entitlement mindsets abound.

[Toad Suck Pork]

I think it's blowing off steam more than anything.

Let's face it, we haven't been relevant in basketball in a decade.  We haven't even been ranked since December 2000.  Those claiming the fans want instant gratification seem to discount the 7 years in this decade prior to Pel's arrival.

I think last night's beatdown was a reminder of how far we still have to go.  It probably prompted questions in some minds as to whether we'll ever get back to 1990's status.

The uncertainty of whether this will be allowed to continue into next season factors in as well.  If you are a Pel supporter then that's irrelevant.

[The Hogfather]

Right now, it's barely at a year of struggling.

Entitlement mindsets abound.

Well, I was including the rest of the year.  If Fortson doesn't come back, Michael Washington is limited by his back, and Sanchez remains out for long periods of time like he has so far, we aren't going to win very many games the rest of the season.

[ErieHog]

I think it's blowing off steam more than anything.

Let's face it, we haven't been relevant in basketball in a decade.  We haven't even been ranked since December 2000.  Those claiming the fans want instant gratification seem to discount the 7 years in this decade prior to Pel's arrival.

I think last night's beatdown was a reminder of how far we still have to go.  It probably prompted questions in some minds as to whether we'll ever get back to 1990's status.

The uncertainty of whether this will be allowed to continue into next season factors in as well.  If you are a Pel supporter then that's irrelevant.

To be fair, it's irrelevant if you want him fired, too.   That's Jeff Long's area, and he still seems to be utterly on board with JP.

[ErieHog]

Well, I was including the rest of the year.  If Fortson doesn't come back, Michael Washington is limited by his back, and Sanchez remains out for long periods of time like he has so far, we aren't going to win very many games the rest of the season.

This team can still win a couple of games.    4 conference games is an attainable goal, and would constitute some (albeit not the desired) level of progress.

[WilsonHog]

Right now, it's barely at a year of struggling.

Entitlement mindsets abound.

Two years ago looks like an aberration for our program.

I suspect we would see less disagreement if we were winning 20-25 games and playing in the NCAA Tournament every year.

Because really...anything else for a major college basketball program is pretty much a waste of time and money. 

[Toad Suck Pork]

To be fair, it's irrelevant if you want him fired, too.   That's Jeff Long's area, and he still seems to be utterly on board with JP.

Irrelevant in that you aren't concerned if he's here next year because you support him.  I was speaking from an anti-Pel position, not saying that pro-Pel folks don't have a valid opinion.

[rude1]

I think it is hilarious that most of the Pelphrey detractors think that 1.5-2 years is enough to complete a ground-to-ceiling rebuild.

Wrong. Most realist understand that it doesn't take 2 years to get the damn rebuilding off the ground. There isn't even a solid foundation laid in place to build upon, and we are a year and half into the thing.

Projecting on out into the next year. We lose Washington, Welsh, and god knows who else. You bring in 3 guys, none of who are highly touted, and will be true freshman. Looks like the structure will still be on the ground next season too. How long does it take just to get the thing of the ground, where there is measurable progress?

[The Hogfather]

This team can still win a couple of games.    4 conference games is an attainable goal, and would constitute some (albeit not the desired) level of progress.

I agree.  But, I'm probably one of about 3 who would.  4 wins would cause Pelphrey's detractors to scream for his head even more.

[Toad Suck Pork]

This team can still win a couple of games.    4 conference games is an attainable goal, and would constitute some (albeit not the desired) level of progress.

That would be 6 conference wins in 2 years (a total of 32 games played).  That would equate to a 0.188 winning percentage in 2 full years.  Is that really enough to justify retaining Pelphrey another year?

[WilsonHog]

That would be 6 conference wins in 2 years (a total of 32 games played).  That would equate to a 0.188 winning percentage in 2 full years.  Is that really enough to justify retaining Pelphrey another year?

That depends entirely on the big-money boys.

[thirtythree]

I agree.  But, I'm probably one of about 3 who would.  4 wins would cause Pelphrey's detractors to scream for his head even more.

I would be there with ya.

[arcowboy]

A basketball program can be rebuilt a lot quicker than a football program.  Look at what Petrino has done in two yrs.  I guarantee you that a good experienced coach can bring a basketball program back to respectability in two yrs.  With what we got we have not even reached the bottom yet and then it will be three more yrs, then another three yrs.  I have been hearing this arguement now for 12 yrs.   Thus it looks like we will take more than 20 yrs to rebuild at this rate.   It is the pits....

[thirtythree]

A basketball program can be rebuilt a lot quicker than a football program.  Look at what Petrino has done in two yrs.  I guarantee you that a good experienced coach can bring a basketball program back to respectability in two yrs.  With what we got we have not even reached the bottom yet and then it will be three more yrs, then another three yrs.  I have been hearing this arguement now for 12 yrs.   Thus it looks like we will take more than 20 yrs to rebuild at this rate.   It is the pits....

Pelphrey didn't have a 5 star QB land in his lap either. Pelphrey also didn't have a crop of recruits change commitments and transfers either.

[SunshinePumper]

It's funny how the Pel lovers claim that the 2-15 was an aberration, and that Pel is "turning things around" yet as long as he wins 3 or 4 games this year they say that's acceptable "progress" and he deserves another year based on that "progress."

I stand by my original statement.  The pel lovers have ties to the administration or the staff or they are trolling. 

[thirtythree]

It's funny how the Pel lovers claim that the 2-15 was an aberration, and that Pel is "turning things around" yet as long as he wins 3 or 4 games this year they say that's acceptable "progress" and he deserves another year based on that "progress."

I stand by my original statement.  The pel lovers have ties to the administration or the staff or they are trolling.

Funny YOU say that.

[BigHog396]

because its the worst hog basketball team since 1973.....Baylor....yes Baylor a team I never remember losing to while in school....now has better facilities and a better program.... just waltzed into LR and hung a 23 point loss on the hogs....that should NEVER happen....NEVER.

and I dint think everyone is looking forward to maybe a 50 point loss to KY and the arse wipe calipari.

2 SEC wins last year and now probably 1 or 2 this year.

yeah im ok with that....

Seems like Baylor beat our #2 or #3 ranked studs the last year in the SWC.  Where was all this venom when our defending National Champs got bent over by Calipari and UMass?

[BigHog396]

It's funny how the Pel lovers claim that the 2-15 was an aberration, and that Pel is "turning things around" yet as long as he wins 3 or 4 games this year they say that's acceptable "progress" and he deserves another year based on that "progress."

I stand by my original statement.  The pel lovers have ties to the administration or the staff or they are trolling. 

Nothing funny at all about it.  It's called realism, and a bunch of posters on here need to try a little of that for once.

[arcowboy]

It seems that there is a lot of complacency in the minds of a lot of the fans.  I remember what basketball was here in the 60's and early 70's with Duddy Waller and Lanny Van Eman ,  just the same as it is now.  The only way that is going to change is with a coach that has a passion, charisma, and knows how to coach.

[bvillepig]

Agree Wilson.
I still maintain we will not win another game till February.  We might as well settle in until he finishes the OJT(On Job Training) or the admin goes another direction.

[want2be]

  IF and when the John Tyson's types speak up negatively, Long will feel more pressure.

  How that is passed down to Pel, no one knows for sure......Between his bad decisions,
  bad luck, and inconsistent coaching he has created major apathy.

  He recruting decisions have gotten better, his coaching is still questionable, both from
  an X&O standpoint and team motivation and respect, and he can't control injuries.

[ge-erdone]

I'm sick of people sugar-coating failure.  Razorback basketball is dead.  The Jeff Long's and the Pel-lovers...you've won.  I'm tired of debating you.
You won.  People that accept mediocrity and failure need to take a close
look at yourself in the mirror.  I hope you like what you see.

So, hopefully for you, your picking another team to support?

[rude1]

Agree Wilson.
I still maintain we will not win another game till February.  We might as well settle in until he finishes the OJT(On Job Training) or the admin goes another direction.

No question about it. I no longer expect to win against the average teams, so I will be pleasantly surprised if or when they do. If you live or die with every win or loss, go look at the remaining schedule and understand you will be dying probably lots more than you will be living.

[Temprees]

Pelphrey didn't have a 5 star QB land in his lap either. Pelphrey also didn't have a crop of recruits change commitments and transfers either.

Petrino had a 5 star QB land in his lap because of the offense that Petrino had run in the past, and because of the success that Petrino had in the past developing QBs.  Had we hired Rodriguez (now at Michigan) or the current Ga Tech coach, then Mallett would not have transferred to Arkansas, now matter how much he loved the hogs.  The coach plays a huge part in getting players to sign with a school. 

[FSHog67]

I don,t think we can change in midstream however with this group of kids, slow down - half court - princeton ball is the only hope for this team, every team is bigger, taller, stronger,  and possibly quicker than us.  I don't believe we can play uptempo ball and win.  Just my thoughts .  Just one added thought after watching every game and believe me a positive attitude at the beginning of the season , with Washington unable to play qualitatively we may not win two SEC games.

[Temprees]

Seems like Baylor beat our #2 or #3 ranked studs the last year in the SWC.  Where was all this venom when our defending National Champs got bent over by Calipari and UMass?

The first thing is that we were "Defending National Champions" when UMass took us down.  The second thing is that same team went back to the Final Four, and onto the Championship game.  Nolan had shown that he had the ability to take Arkansas to the top.  The fan base "knew" that Nolan could get it done.  It is no way that the same could be said for Pelphrey.  Nolan had won titles (Jr. College and NIT) before to coming to Arkansas. Pelphrey's resume is not as stellar.  Thus the venom.

[98hogs]

Then you tell me right now what I can do to change it. Tell me what you're going to do.

Tell you what big guy...I'll write my check to the Foundation for $50,000 right after you do. You game? 

Well just go big money.  If you don't then keep kissing pel Tail.

[pfrg999]

Seems like Baylor beat our #2 or #3 ranked studs the last year in the SWC.  Where was all this venom when our defending National Champs got bent over by Calipari and UMass?

So your comparing this team to the 94 team? Yes we got hammered by Umass but went to the NC game.... Uhhh you do lose games... Just not most of them... And on this team There is no offense, defense, team chemisty, game plan, execution, killer instinct.... Nothing....we are Below average team... But I know some people on here will say give him another year no matter what happens and will say it every year...If you go to work and cannot do the job you will be let go.... and If there was a foundation that was being built then maybe... But no one can show me how we are better...

[BigHog396]

So your comparing this team to the 94 team? Yes we got hammered by Umass but went to the NC game.... Uhhh you do lose games... Just not most of them... And on this team There is no offense, defense, team chemisty, game plan, execution, killer instinct.... Nothing....we are Below average team... But I know some people on here will say give him another year no matter what happens and will say it every year...If you go to work and cannot do the job you will be let go.... and If there was a foundation that was being built then maybe... But no one can show me how we are better...

No, I am not comparing this team to the '95 (not '94) team.  No one in their right mind would.  I am just saying we had a GREAT team then, and it got smoked by UMass to start the season.  We lost that game by 24.  What's worse, losing to a very good Baylor team with a sub-par team, or losing even worse with two teams that were nearly on the same level?

[jacksonpollock]

We could join the sunbelt...

[Danny J]

It's funny how the Pel lovers claim that the 2-15 was an aberration, and that Pel is "turning things around" yet as long as he wins 3 or 4 games this year they say that's acceptable "progress" and he deserves another year based on that "progress."

I stand by my original statement.  The pel lovers have ties to the administration or the staff or they are trolling.

If winning a couple more games in the sec from the previous year is ok with most people it will be 5 more years to get to 10 wins and that is laughable. We are the laughingstock of the sec. Look at how long nolan has been gone and we are worse now than we were when he left. Hell...look at miss state and ole miss. How come we cant get it done here but they can get it done there?  We need to pay the BIG $ to get a proven coach from a major conference not a proven coach from the sunbelt or meac conference.

[VBHOG]

No, I am not comparing this team to the '95 (not '94) team.  No one in their right mind would.  I am just saying we had a GREAT team then, and it got smoked by UMass to start the season.  We lost that game by 24.  What's worse, losing to a very good Baylor team with a sub-par team, or losing even worse with two teams that were nearly on the same level?

With all due respect, this is a horrible analogy.  You're talking about an aberration loss ('95) vs. routine, recurring losses (current).

[Razorod]

If winning a couple more games in the sec from the previous year is ok with most people it will be 5 more years to get to 10 wins and that is laughable. We are the laughingstock of the sec. Look at how long nolan has been gone and we are worse now than we were when he left. Hell...look at miss state and ole miss. How come we cant get it done here but they can get it done there?  We need to pay the BIG $ to get a proven coach from a major conference not a proven coach from the sunbelt or meac conference.

i would like to think that IF we can win 4-5 games in the SEC and IF that is enough for Pel to retain his job, that everyone, regardless of which side you're on, could at least agree that next season needs to be a tourney season or he's gone.

[thirtythree]

i would like to think that IF we can win 4-5 games in the SEC and IF that is enough for Pel to retain his job, that everyone, regardless of which side you're on, could at least agree that next season needs to be a tourney season or he's gone.

You won't get a disagreement out of me about that. That's pretty much been my take all along anyway.

Improvement this year, get one more year to get it there.

[MakeMeOink]

As on of Pel's most loyal supporters did you attend the Baylor game?

[thirtythree]

As on of Pel's most loyal supporters did you attend the Baylor game?

Yes I did.

[HogSophist]

because its the worst hog basketball team since 1973.....Baylor....yes Baylor a team I never remember losing to while in school....now has better facilities and a better program.... just waltzed into LR and hung a 23 point loss on the hogs....that should NEVER happen....NEVER.

and I dint think everyone is looking forward to maybe a 50 point loss to KY and the arse wipe calipari.

2 SEC wins last year and now probably 1 or 2 this year.

yeah im ok with that....

So how much action you want laying 50 and taking kentucky?

[Oliver]

This team can still win a couple of games.    4 conference games is an attainable goal, and would constitute some (albeit not the desired) level of progress.

If yoi honestly believe this, then we would be better off shutting down the basketball program and using the money to make sure Petrino is locked up forever.

[HogSophist]

If yoi honestly believe this, then we would be better off shutting down the basketball program and using the money to make sure Petrino is locked up forever.

except there is no indication that bball program is no longer turning a profit.

[ErieHog]

except there is no indication that bball program is no longer turning a profit.

Or that this year's fate is a perpetual one, either.

[Nuclearhog]

(BTW, the fact that Nutt left was forced out and left with $3 million of our money is part of the reason Pelphrey's situation is about economics now.)

This is a very good point.  I was completely over Nutt until you just made me realize that we had to go through, not only, a rebuilding process in football, but that we also owe that guy for our current basketball failures as well. 

I just want to thank you for igniting my interest in the Cotton Bowl tomorrow.

[Razorod]

that 3 million dollar buyout may play a big role in why pel will be given every opportunity to be the coach next year.

[Oliver]

except there is no indication that bball program is no longer turning a profit.

How much the basketball program is making is irrelevant.  It's not making more than the football program.  And if 4 conference wins is the where the bar is set for our basketball team, it's money we could be spending on a program that will flourish under it's current leadership.

[HogSophist]

How much the basketball program is making is irrelevant.  It's not making more than the football program.  And if 4 conference wins is the where the bar is set for our basketball team, it's money we could be spending on a program that will flourish under it's current leadership.

except for the fact its still turning a profit. Cancel it and that actually means less revenue.

[Oliver]

except for the fact its still turning a profit. Cancel it and that actually means less revenue.

Not if it's invested in successful sports like our baseball and football programs where it could actually result in profits larger than the basketball program.

[rude1]

i would like to think that IF we can win 4-5 games in the SEC and IF that is enough for Pel to retain his job, that everyone, regardless of which side you're on, could at least agree that next season needs to be a tourney season or he's gone.

Here is the problem with that IMO. If he only wins 4 or 5 conference games this year, it's a waste to bring him back another year with a stipulation of getting a tourney birth or else.

You have to project out ahead another season. Look at what he is losing that we know of. Look at what he is bringing in. With that alone you can clearly see there is no way in hell he gets to the tourney next season, so what is the reasoning for an additional year, when it is obvious he will not meet a standard of a NCAA tourney bid?

[Razorod]

Here is the problem with that IMO. If he only wins 4 or 5 conference games this year, it's a waste to bring him back another year with a stipulation of getting a tourney birth or else.

You have to project out ahead another season. Look at what he is losing that we know of. Look at what he is bringing in. With that alone you can clearly see there is no way in hell he gets to the tourney next season, so what is the reasoning for an additional year, when it is obvious he will not meet a standard of a NCAA tourney bid?

I'm certainly not disagreeing with you. The ONLY hope I see for Pel is him getting to six SEC wins and getting Ratliffe to commit. W/O Ratliffe the other signees aren't going to help near as much as some are suggesting on here. My main point is IF Pel meets some minimal standard this year, as some are suggesting, then can even the Pro-Pel-ers agree to make next year a do or die year for Pel.

[rude1]

I'm certainly not disagreeing with you. The ONLY hope I see for Pel is him getting to six SEC wins and getting Ratliffe to commit. W/O Ratliffe the other signees aren't going to help near as much as some are suggesting on here. My main point is IF Pel meets some minimal standard this year, as some are suggesting, then can even the Pro-Pel-ers agree to make next year a do or die year for Pel.

No point in asking the Pro Pelphrey group. They will always move the bar in support of their hero. Next year when he is sucking yet again, they will then point to the 2011 class as reason for not letting him go and giving him ONE more year.