I feel David Rivers Out of Hall is the best player in the class of 2011

[excoach]

just my opinion, love his upside, have a got a chance to work him out , this kid is going to be special

[The_Bionic_Pig]

I have read where a very influential AAU coach has made that exact same statement. 

[excoach]

talked with him last night, he said Coach I just want to be the best!!!.I just see something special in him

[LA Football fan]

Not familiar with him.  What is his height/weight and ppg average?

[Hogimus Prime]

How hard is Pel and his staff recruiting Rivers?

[chiefsfan]

How hard is Pel and his staff recruiting Rivers?

hard to say.  Rivers isnt near as a well known quality nationally right now.  and the staff is mainly focusing on Mickelson Madden and Thomas for obvious reasons

[The_Iceman]

hard to say.  Rivers isnt near as a well known quality nationally right now.  and the staff is mainly focusing on Mickelson Madden and Thomas for obvious reasons

maybe something will open up for him to play here.

David Rivers: 6'6" 185lbs Small Forward.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/arkansas/basketball/recruiting/player-David-Rivers-99799

[akp4105]

just my opinion, love his upside, have a got a chance to work him out , this kid is going to be special

Does have a lot of upside from what I've seen. Must work on ballhandling, strength, and outside shot if he wants to play at a very high level. Good news, he has a year and half to do that.

[chiefsfan]

his problem is that he's in the wrong class instate wise.  in a normal year he'd be the best player in the state.  in 2011.  at best he'll be the 4th best player.

gonna be interesting to see how his recruiting goes.  his rating and playing ability right now is ripe for a mid major to come and get him and for him to have an outstanding career there

[thirtythree]

his problem is that he's in the wrong class instate wise.  in a normal year he'd be the best player in the state.  in 2011.  at best he'll be the 4th best player.

gonna be interesting to see how his recruiting goes.  his rating and playing ability right now is ripe for a mid major to come and get him and for him to have an outstanding career there

There are some that feel he is better than 1 or 2 of the other in state kids. What do you think?

[excoach]

Watch and see , guys please stop listening to guys like DD and otis, I know they are all we got , but I put little stock in what they say, Ross is a tweener with no explosion , slow feet, and no true position, Madden can not shoot the ball well enough to be a 2 and his handle and instincts are not advanced enough to be a true pg , Mickelson is a lil harder to get a read on bad frame he has no a** or anchor and a narrow shoulder base, sometimes you can look at a skinny post and say well his frame can carry 25 more lbs, not with him, I had Jordan Hill who plays for the Knicks and he was like that. For the Razorback program to get back to where we all want it to be you have to recruit Nationally , and you can turn it  around more quickly, than you think. No chance on Adonis Thomas , I talked to his aau coach Cowboy yesterday and he said as much. I hope you all had a GREAT Christmas, and I wish you a very special 2010

[Porkatarian]

Having seen them all, let me share my 2 cents:

Ross is extremely talented, but doesn't play hard all the time.  I wish he was more agressive on both ends of the floor.  If the light bulb goes on for this kid, he has a chance to be really special.

Rivers (and I've said this for over a year) has a chance to be a really good small forward in the SEC.  Andy Kennedy is all over the kid.  Pel and Ostrom have some ground to make up here.  He has the total package and will do nothing but get better.   

Madden is the most impressive of the group.  He has the skill set to play the point, 2, or 3 in the SEC.  I was AMAZED at how well he handles the ball.  He's also VERY UNSELFISH and a very good passer.  I think Madden will be in the NBA before his 4 years of eligibility are over.  Again, dispite what Booger Dawson and other suck-up members of the media say, we have to ground to make up here too b/c of Tom Ostrom.

Michelson has an incredible skill set for someone his age and his height.  He is fundementally sound, has GREAT hands, uses the glass really well, and can also hit the 3 when needed.  I'm compare his skill set to a cross b/t Kevin McHale, Dirk Nowenski, and Tim Duncan.  I love the way the kid uses the glass and he's shot atleast 80% from the line in all the games I've seen him play.  Hunter is very skinny and is probably two years in the weight room away from being a force at the college level.


Porkatarian out...

[thirtythree]

Having seen them all, let me share my 2 cents:

Ross is extremely talented, but doesn't play hard all the time.  I wish he was more agressive on both ends of the floor.  If the light bulb goes on for this kid, he has a chance to be really special.

Rivers (and I've said this for over a year) has a chance to be a really good small forward in the SEC.  Andy Kennedy is all over the kid.  Pel and Ostrom have some ground to make up here.  He has the total package and will do nothing but get better.   

Madden is the most impressive of the group.  He has the skill set to play the point, 2, or 3 in the SEC.  I was AMAZED at how well he handles the ball.  He's also VERY UNSELFISH and a very good passer.  I think Madden will be in the NBA before his 4 years of eligibility are over.  Again, dispite what Booger Dawson and other suck-up members of the media say, we have to ground to make up here too b/c of Tom Ostrom.

Michelson has an incredible skill set for someone his age and his height.  He is fundementally sound, has GREAT hands, uses the glass really well, and can also hit the 3 when needed.  I'm compare his skill set to a cross b/t Kevin McHale, Dirk Nowenski, and Tim Duncan.  I love the way the kid uses the glass and he's shot atleast 80% from the line in all the games I've seen him play.  Hunter is very skinny and is probably two years in the weight room away from being a force at the college level.


Porkatarian out...

Very nice breakdown.

Question: Why does yours and Coach (post above yours) evaluation differ so much? I haven't seen anything but highlights, so that's why I am asking.  Thanks.

[Porkatarian]

Very nice breakdown.

Question: Why does yours and Coach (post above yours) evaluation differ so much? I haven't seen anything but highlights, so that's why I am asking.  Thanks.

I do agree with him on Ross, Rivers, and Thomas.  I guess I've seen more out of Michelson and Madden when I watched them play.   IMO, it's hard to get a true read on any of these kids unless you're watching them game in and game out.  I travel around the state with my job, and being a basketball junkie, I make it a point to try and watch these kids play when I'm in the area.  BTW, if you get the chance to watch this group play on the AAU circuit this summer, don't miss it.


Porkatarian out...

[excoach]

Pork I am impressed with you, You know your stuff, I disagree with you on a few points , but I respect your opinion.

[Jacob "2 Scoops" Johnson]

Has in-state talent ever been this good? Man, this in-state class for '11 is crazy.

[Porkatarian]

Has in-state talent ever been this good? Man, this in-state class for '11 is crazy.

I think it's the best group of in-state talent since 1992.  That class had Corliss Williamson, Maurice Robinson, Dion Cross, Marcus Brown, Derrick Fisher, Jaratio Tucker, and several other D1 players.


Porkatarian out...

[Porkatarian]

Pork I am impressed with you, You know your stuff, I disagree with you on a few points , but I respect your opinion.

Thanks excoach.  I enjoyed your takes as well.  It's obvious that you know your stuff.  What do you think about PG Keynon McNeaill (sp?) from Conway?  Personally, I think Doc Sadler got a steal by signing that young man.  From what I've seen, he has everything you would want in a high D1 point guard.  I have serious concerns about Pel and Ostrom's ability to evaluate talent.  You and I are on the same page on David Rivers.  I think we'll live to regret letting that young man leave the state.


Porkatarian out...

[GS99]

I haven't seen any of them, so I can't compare.  But I will point out that there can be a big difference between being the best in 9th grade playing against pre-pubescent 14 year olds and being the best as seniors.  I don't doubt the experts who identified "the big 3" a few years ago, but I always wonder if there are kids out there just as good who are late bloomers or who didn't play in all the right summer tourneys.

[Lakerhog]

Madden is the most impressive of the group.  He has the skill set to play the point, 2, or 3 in the SEC.  I was AMAZED at how well he handles the ball.  He's also VERY UNSELFISH and a very good passer.  I think Madden will be in the NBA before his 4 years of eligibility are over.  Again, dispite what Booger Dawson and other suck-up members of the media say, we have to ground to make up here too b/c of Tom Ostrom.

In a recent article, Madden had this to say about Arkansas:

"Arkansas and Ole Miss are probably the same right now," Madden said. "Whoever gets me gets me, though."

"They're doing a good job recruiting me," Madden said of Arkansas. "If they keep it up, I'll probably be a Hog."

LINK

[chiefsfan]

There are some that feel he is better than 1 or 2 of the other in state kids. What do you think?

ive seen him  madden and Mickelson play, and I dont think he's as good as madden or Mickelson.   ive never seen Ross play so dont have any idea there.

Madden and Mickelson are playing tonight at the convocation center, and im going to watch them again...  havent seen either since last year.

I saw Rivers too early this year to make a statement and will re-evaluate him when Hall comes to Jonesboro later this year

[excoach]

I handle Kenyons recruting, love him, shoots the cover off the ball , great feet , got pop, and a hell of a kid, from a hell of a family

[The_Iceman]

ive seen him  madden and Mickelson play, and I dont think he's as good as madden or Mickelson.   ive never seen Ross play so dont have any idea there.

Madden and Mickelson are playing tonight at the convocation center, and im going to watch them again...  havent seen either since last year.

I saw Rivers too early this year to make a statement and will re-evaluate him when Hall comes to Jonesboro later this year

Report from the game?

[chiefsfan]

Report from the game?

eh.  Trying to figure it all out.    Neither team was really playing a very tough opponent.   but I got some inklings

Ky Madden
Madden has one ugly 3 point shot.  he has no business shooting off the dribble from out there

I was not a huge fan of his attitude.  He struck me as a guy who has never has had a foul called him in his life

he is very good at driving to the hole.  Deadly with ball in open space

Free throw shooting was above average.  Something like 6 of 9 for the line for the game.   

he got a ton of layups for the game.    he did charge a couple times.   sometimes his drives come when he doesnt need to drive

Mickelson

at 6-8 he towers over every one else in high school.   His oopponent played a 4 guard lineup throughout to try and counter him

Does not need to shot the 3

Has a very good looking 10 foot jumper,   2 of 3 for the day at the free throw line.   any open look from 7-10 feet and the ball goes in 9 times out of 10

looks like a power forward in D1 ball to me.  needs to work some on his post movment.  and really needs to bulk up...a year in any weight room will do him some real good

White Men can indeed jump

Both play again in Jonesboro Monday.   Madden and EPC play Rivercrest at 7:30
Mickelson and Jonesboro Westside play Valley View at 9:00

All games at ASU's Convocation Center

[excoach]

thanks Cheifs fan for the update, yes Maddens attitude is not the best, He was on my team at the Memphis Elite camp,  I told him he had a lot work to do , his response was whateva lol

[heathtits]

God how did Ole Miss land Kennedy and we landed HDN version 2.0.

This staff REALLY worries me regarding recruiting.

Failure on Thomas, Cothron, probably Ratliffe and just about every other top player they have ever tried to recruit.

Sounds like someone or someones over evaluated Ross and have vastly under evaluated Rivers. Just what we need right now.

[thirtythree]

thanks Cheifs fan for the update, yes Maddens attitude is not the best, He was on my team at the Memphis Elite camp,  I told him he had a lot work to do , his response was whateva lol

Is his attitude more of a competitive one vs. just being bad? I can take a kid who is competitive, but not a piss poor attitude.

[Porkatarian]

thanks Cheifs fan for the update, yes Maddens attitude is not the best, He was on my team at the Memphis Elite camp,  I told him he had a lot work to do , his response was whateva lol

From what I've seen and heard, Madden's attitude varies greatly depending on whether or not his father is at the game.


Porkatarian out...

[chiefsfan]

Is his attitude more of a competitive one vs. just being bad? I can take a kid who is competitive, but not a piss poor attitude.

seemed to be kind of distant from teamates.   was often getting on to teamates about positioning.  Complained about every foul called on him, even though a couple were blatantly obvious

Theres no question he has obvious talent.   Im looking for little things that this team needs more then anything else

[thirtythree]

seemed to be kind of distant from teamates.   was often getting on to teamates about positioning.  Complained about every foul called on him, even though a couple were blatantly obvious

Theres no question he has obvious talent.   Im looking for little things that this team needs more then anything else

What the Razorbacks need are good attitudes now. They have certainly had their fair share of bad ones lately. Not judging him, but just going off of what you guys are saying right now.

[ricepig]

seemed to be kind of distant from teamates.   was often getting on to teamates about positioning.  Complained about every foul called on him, even though a couple were blatantly obvious

Theres no question he has obvious talent.   Im looking for little things that this team needs more then anything else

He appeared to be out of shape, and I find that hard to believe. I don't see him as a PG, but I have not seen him play AAU ball in a few years. He played on a local NEA team a few years ago and had an attitude back then, but if I had that ability I might see things differently.

[Hawgrox]

WOW! An informative, intelligent post in Jump Ball?!?!? It can't be! Can it?

Seriously....great breakdown guys. +1.

Thanks

[pick_DA_EAGLES]

eh.  Trying to figure it all out.    Neither team was really playing a very tough opponent.   but I got some inklings

Ky Madden
Madden has one ugly 3 point shot.  he has no business shooting off the dribble from out there

I was not a huge fan of his attitude.  He struck me as a guy who has never has had a foul called him in his life

he is very good at driving to the hole.  Deadly with ball in open space

Free throw shooting was above average.  Something like 6 of 9 for the line for the game.   

he got a ton of layups for the game.    he did charge a couple times.   sometimes his drives come when he doesnt need to drive

Mickelson

at 6-8 he towers over every one else in high school.   His oopponent played a 4 guard lineup throughout to try and counter him

Does not need to shot the 3

Has a very good looking 10 foot jumper,   2 of 3 for the day at the free throw line.   any open look from 7-10 feet and the ball goes in 9 times out of 10

looks like a power forward in D1 ball to me.  needs to work some on his post movment.  and really needs to bulk up...a year in any weight room will do him some real good

White Men can indeed jump

Both play again in Jonesboro Monday.   Madden and EPC play Rivercrest at 7:30
Mickelson and Jonesboro Westside play Valley View at 9:00

All games at ASU's Convocation Center

here is a white boy that can JUMP........

well if you got a facebook you can see him


http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/photo.php?pid=3612928&op=1&o=global&view=global&subj=506259672&id=640876687

[Sharp Shooter]

From what I've seen and heard, Madden's attitude varies greatly depending on whether or not his father is at the game.


Porkatarian out...

His father was at the game Saturday night.
He threw a vicious elbow that barely missed a player's face on the opposing team and neither of the two had the ball.

[The_Bionic_Pig]

What the Razorbacks need are good attitudes now. They have certainly had their fair share of bad ones lately. Not judging him, but just going off of what you guys are saying right now.

Another young man out of Lower Merion H.S. had and still has that same type attitude "Kobe Bryant" so I will assume with a little guidance that can be remedied.

[Lakerhog]

Another young man out of Lower Merion H.S. had and still has that same type attitude "Kobe Bryant" so I will assume with a little guidance that can be remedied.

He's alright, I guess...

[chiefsfan]

His father was at the game Saturday night.
He threw a vicious elbow that barely missed a player's face on the opposing team and neither of the two had the ball.

and he flopped on another end when an opposing player used his elbows to clear out, and never came within a foot of touching him.   It looked like a Brian Walker emmy play.

[hawgchill]

We SHOULD be actively pursuing David AND LR Central's
Alandis Harris...BOTH are special players IMO

[kibster]

I have seen Rivers a few times over the last couple of years and I have been impressed with him.  He is very quick and has some good leaping ability.  Unfortunately I have only seen him play AAU ball with Ross, Madden and Mickelson and it was really hard to get a good read on him because teams always put their best defenders on the other three.  I think he has a great mid range game and would do great in an up-tempo game where teams could use his length and athletic ability in a full court pressing situation.

[pick_DA_EAGLES]

i saw the 4 of them play alot during the summer, he is the most underrated of them. IMO, ross either takes to many plays off or plays down to his competitions level. Mickelson needs to put on some weight, but maintain his athleticm, madden needs to just keep doin what he is doing.

[chiefsfan]

Watched them both play again today.  Mickelson put up 27 with several blocks and several rebounds in front of coaches for 3 different schools including one tall red head wearing a maroon razorback shirt

[chiefsfan]

Interestingly enough Tom Ostrom is the lead recruiter for Ky Madden.  Tom was at the early game, and then Pelphrey joined him later to watch Mickelson

ASU and Ole Miss also had people present.   Pelphrey had a long conversation with the Ole Miss assistant

[Razorback88]

I saw the Wings play in a tournament last April and was extremely impressed.  There is no reason for us to not be going after this guy, unless that tourney was a complete fluke for him. 

I also saw Madden and Mickelson play twice each over the past week and came away with a little different view than chiefsfan.

Madden:
-went 20-22 from the FT line one game
-hard to judge his outside shot because he only shot layups
-extremely unselfish, almost to the point of hurting his team at times
-really good athlete
-lazy at times, but probably due to the weak competition
-overall, bigtime player that could play for the Hogs right now

Mickelson: 
-weak physically, but tough and plays hard
-amazing hands and a great looking 18 footer for a guy his size
-looks really young- probably still has some growing and filling out to do
-had four dunks tonight, including a reverse on a kid for fun in the 4th quarter
-likes to float out to the 3 point line on offense- goes several possessions at a time without a touch.  I think this is a result of poor coaching, because he could be scoring 40 regularly if the offense would run through him every time down the floor.

I really think some schools with a better recent past than us will try to get these two guys... hopefully they will decide to stick together and rebuild the program here.  I don't have any doubt that both guys would be great players at the U of A.  WPS!

[chiefsfan]

I saw the Wings play in a tournament last April and was extremely impressed.  There is no reason for us to not be going after this guy, unless that tourney was a complete fluke for him. 

I also saw Madden and Mickelson play twice each over the past week and came away with a little different view than chiefsfan.

Madden:
-went 20-22 from the FT line one game
-hard to judge his outside shot because he only shot layups
-extremely unselfish, almost to the point of hurting his team at times
-really good athlete
-lazy at times, but probably due to the weak competition
-overall, bigtime player that could play for the Hogs right now

Mickelson: 
-weak physically, but tough and plays hard
-amazing hands and a great looking 18 footer for a guy his size
-looks really young- probably still has some growing and filling out to do
-had four dunks tonight, including a reverse on a kid for fun in the 4th quarter
-likes to float out to the 3 point line on offense- goes several possessions at a time without a touch.  I think this is a result of poor coaching, because he could be scoring 40 regularly if the offense would run through him every time down the floor.

I really think some schools with a better recent past than us will try to get these two guys... hopefully they will decide to stick together and rebuild the program here.  I don't have any doubt that both guys would be great players at the U of A.  WPS!

Oh there is no question Madden is unselfish.  I just think his attitude is very poor.     that and im not sure he's got a position in college.   not a great outside shooter, average ball handler.   Great passer.   Probably a 3 guard

Part of Mickelsons problem is that teams are double teaming him leaving their other big guy open down low alot allowing him easy baskets.

Somehow the team playing Westside tonight let Mickelson get wide open behind the defense 3 times tonight

[HawgAdvocate]

Oh there is no question Madden is unselfish.  I just think his attitude is very poor.     that and im not sure he's got a position in college.   not a great outside shooter, average ball handler.   Great passer.   Probably a 3 guard

Other than the talk of being selfish, sounds an awful lot like Stef Welsh. I'd rather have Deville Smith.

Interestingly enough Tom Ostrom is the lead recruiter for Ky Madden.  Tom was at the early game, and then Pelphrey joined him later to watch Mickelson

Heathtits, care to explain this one?? The "Ostrom is ruining us" talk continues to baffle me.

[labb]

Madden is 5 star for a reason. Don't ya'll fool around and talk yourselves into thinking that we did not miss out on a good one if we do not get him. On his attitude, I have not seen him play so don't know about that , but if he is being mentiored by Marcus Monk, I can't imagine his attitude being that bad. I think that we get at least two of the three if not all three. Also there is a kid from Mississippi(top five I think) that we are on hard and have a shot at. Those three will take care of themselves. What Pel needs to do is land Ratliff this year to go with the three already committed. If he does, We will be loaded going into the season that the Baby Wings finish. I think that Ratliff is the key for this year. Get him and Pel will have signed two of the top Jr. College players in the nation.

[Porkatarian]

IMO, the right coach can do just fine with talented players with questionable attitudes.  Take Calipari for instance.  He commands the respect of his players.  Nolan did too. 

I don't think Pel has what it takes to coach players with questionable character or attitudes.  He doesn't command the respect of his players.  Its obvious from watching the way that certain players respond to his coaching.  I hate it when I see players yell back at him or just walk away from him while he's trying to talk to them during a timeout.

Flame away.


Porkatarian out...

[HawgAdvocate]

IMO, the right coach can do just fine with talented players with questionable attitudes.  Take Calipari for instance.  He commands the respect of his players. Nolan did too.

Instead he gets openly disrespected by living legends such as Bobby Knight. Kids with questionable attitudes tend to disprect a lot of people. Berry Jordan didn't respect Nolan, best I recall. Dig deep enough and you'll find others.

[chiefsfan]

Madden is 5 star for a reason. Don't ya'll fool around and talk yourselves into thinking that we did not miss out on a good one if we do not get him. On his attitude, I have not seen him play so don't know about that , but if he is being mentiored by Marcus Monk, I can't imagine his attitude being that bad. I think that we get at least two of the three if not all three. Also there is a kid from Mississippi(top five I think) that we are on hard and have a shot at. Those three will take care of themselves. What Pel needs to do is land Ratliff this year to go with the three already committed. If he does, We will be loaded going into the season that the Baby Wings finish. I think that Ratliff is the key for this year. Get him and Pel will have signed two of the top Jr. College players in the nation.

If Adonis Thomas can sign, the team no longer needs Madden. 

5 star or not  we cant afford anyone who will screw around here and get themselves in trouble.   1 slip up by a player could lead to major APR issues

Madden comes from a family of basketball players  he has sisters in college and then of course Monk.   he will certainly have developed an attitude just from being around that

[The_Iceman]

IMO, the right coach can do just fine with talented players with questionable attitudes.  Take Calipari for instance.  He commands the respect of his players.  Nolan did too. 

I don't think Pel has what it takes to coach players with questionable character or attitudes.  He doesn't command the respect of his players.  Its obvious from watching the way that certain players respond to his coaching.  I hate it when I see players yell back at him or just walk away from him while he's trying to talk to them during a timeout.

Flame away.


Porkatarian out...

no pork, I definately agree with the respect part.

i see players rolling their eyes, looking away, and talking back way to much.