Did Wally take a shot at Long's self inscribed integrity?

[Con el Cerdos]

Certainly appears to me that he did.  And, yeah I know they're both gone now, but I think it's a legitimate question.

This is a small paragraph from Wally's ADG article from today, I think.

"When talk about Bielema's buyout began, Long was fired, and Bielema soon followed.  Last week after Attorney General Leslie Rutledge ruled it was learned Bielema's secret agreement with the UA that was hidden in the Razorback Foundation (contract) superseded his UA contracts, guaranteeing him a $15.4 million payoff.  Or including his salary about $3 million per SEC win over five years."

Was it a screw up (error) by Long or did he sign off on the Foundation contract and deliberately not inform his superiors of the "secret agreement" that cost the Foundation $15.4 million?

[Inhogswetrust]

I think so. He never liked Long.

[GuvHog]

Certainly appears to me that he did.  And, yeah I know they're both gone now, but I think it's a legitimate question.

This is a small paragraph from Wally's ADG article from today, I think.

"When talk about Bielema's buyout began, Long was fired, and Bielema soon followed.  Last week after Attorney General Leslie Rutledge ruled it was learned Bielema's secret agreement with the UA that was hidden in the Razorback Foundation (contract) superseded his UA contracts, guaranteeing him a $15.4 million payoff.  Or including his salary about $3 million per SEC win over five years."

Was it a screw up (error) by Long or did he sign off on the Foundation contract and deliberately not inform his superiors of the "secret agreement" that cost the Foundation $15.4 million?

Just more of Jeff Long's dishonesty.

[HawgWild]

"Carpetbagger!" In before Delta 

[waterboy]

If this is what got long fired, then he should not be getting paid to leave.

[GuvHog]

If this is what got long fired, then he should not be getting paid to leave.

Agreed. The U of A didn't want a possible court battle and took the easy way out.

[Hardcore Hoggy]

This confuses me.

Why does the AD of a school sign off on a contract that the booster club has with a coach? Makes no sense, why would the AD be involved with that at all?

And further, why would the AD need to keep that from the school, because why would the AD's boss give a crap how much money the booster club was willing to pay a coach if the school fired him?

Guess I'm wrong, but I didn't think school officials were at all involved in those discussions.

[Wild Bill Hog]

This confuses me.

Why does the AD of a school sign off on a contract that the booster club has with a coach? Makes no sense, why would the AD be involved with that at all?

And further, why would the AD need to keep that from the school, because why would the AD's boss give a crap how much money the booster club was willing to pay a coach if the school fired him?

Guess I'm wrong, but I didn't think school officials were at all involved in those discussions.

Valid points.  I'm not sure anyone willing to talk about it knows who or what was involved in this deal.

[ricepig]

This confuses me.

Why does the AD of a school sign off on a contract that the booster club has with a coach? Makes no sense, why would the AD be involved with that at all?

And further, why would the AD need to keep that from the school, because why would the AD's boss give a crap how much money the booster club was willing to pay a coach if the school fired him?

Guess I'm wrong, but I didn't think school officials were at all involved in those discussions.

The school and coach agree on a salary. The RF is the third party guarantee of the contract. Long didn't sign any contract with Bielema from the RF, Sean Rochelle did.

[Hardcore Hoggy]

The school and coach agree on a salary. The RF is the third party guarantee of the contract. Long didn't sign any contract with Bielema from the RF, Sean Rochelle did.

My question though is did Long even see the Contract? Why would the AD even need to? I've just confused on that point.

I mean I could certainly see someone from the RF telling Long how much the buyout was , I just can't understand why he would have to hide that from his boss since the buyout wouldn't cost the school any money , even if it was $1B

[bphi11ips]

The school and coach agree on a salary. The RF is the third party guarantee of the contract. Long didn't sign any contract with Bielema from the RF, Sean Rochelle did.

I don't know anything about the structure of these deals and don't care to look, but I'll assume you are correct and that the Foundation is the guarantor. At what point does a guarantor want input into the terms of a deal it guarantees? 

And in this deal, doesn't the Foundation actually pay the salaries and buyouts, i.e., or does it simply pay in the case of default like a typical guarantor?

[Wooderson]

The school and coach agree on a salary. The RF is the third party guarantee of the contract. Long didn't sign any contract with Bielema from the RF, Sean Rochelle did.

Is Sean Rochelle being held accountable?  The RF?  Not saying a witch hunt is called for, but maybe how the RF and UofA conduct business should be visited by lawmakers.

[GuvHog]

 NM

[PonderinHog]

I don't know anything about the structure of these deals and don't care to look, but I'll assume you are correct and that the Foundation is the guarantor. At what point does a guarantor want input into the terms of a deal it guarantees? 

And in this deal, doesn't the Foundation actually pay the salaries and buyouts, i.e., or does it simply pay in the case of default like a typical guarantor?

I'd also like to know how often a guarantor guarantees more than the original contract.

[cram224]

The school and coach agree on a salary. The RF is the third party guarantee of the contract. Long didn't sign any contract with Bielema from the RF, Sean Rochelle did.

My question has always been, did the RF board have a vote to sign off on the contract? If the board meet and signed off I have no problem. If JL and Rochelle only signed off I have a problem. Checks and balances.

[PonderinHog]

I don't know anything about the structure of these deals and don't care to look, but I'll assume you are correct and that the Foundation is the guarantor. At what point does a guarantor want input into the terms of a deal it guarantees? 

And in this deal, doesn't the Foundation actually pay the salaries and buyouts, i.e., or does it simply pay in the case of default like a typical guarantor?

I'd also like to know how often a guarantor guarantees more than the original contract.

[Inhogswetrust]

My question has always been, did the RF board have a vote to sign off on the contract? If the board meet and signed off I have no problem. If JL and Rochelle only signed off I have a problem. Checks and balances.

I used to work for a RF board member. They approve or not all major contracts done by the RF. 

[dpetty121263]

The State Police and AG's office needs to be investigating this and people held accountable!

[Grizzlyfan]

The school and coach agree on a salary. The RF is the third party guarantee of the contract. Long didn't sign any contract with Bielema from the RF, Sean Rochelle did.

And everybody concerned knew exactly what they were signing.  There was no "secret agreement".  Just that nobody wanted to own it after it all went to darn.

[Hardcore Hoggy]

The State Police and AG's office needs to be investigating this and people held accountable!

Held accountable for what? If the RF wants to tell a coach 'we'll give you $100M if the school fires you" what law does that violate?

[Snout team]

So BB asked for a huge buyout after the Texas win.
Long wanted him to have it because he loved the Uncommon brand and genuinely believed in the direction of the program.
The University wouldn't agree to that kind of buyout and were willing to call his bluff even if that meant seeing BB walk away.
The RF agreed to fund it to keep him from going to Nebraska or any other suitor.

Am I close?

[Inhogswetrust]

Held accountable for what? If the RF wants to tell a coach 'we'll give you $100M if the school fires you" what law does that violate?

None.

[Wooderson]

Held accountable for what? If the RF wants to tell a coach 'we'll give you $100M if the school fires you" what law does that violate?

I agree. No laws were broken, but now is the time to examine the RF and how it and the UofA operate. Unfortunately with the way it's set up it's a secret club controlled by a select few with little oversight. Maybe that needs to change or people need to think about how they donate their money.

[Tusks]

Well they all still F'd up because BB is getting a $15.4M buyout.

[racinghog]

Is Sean Rochelle being held accountable?  The RF?  Not saying a witch hunt is called for, but maybe how the RF and UofA conduct business should be visited by lawmakers.

I think that portion in private money.

[Hardcore Hoggy]

I agree. No laws were broken, but now is the time to examine the RF and how it and the UofA operate. Unfortunately with the way it's set up it's a secret club controlled by a select few with little oversight. Maybe that needs to change or people need to think about how they donate their money.

Eh, the RF IS a private organization, now if you donate you obviously have a small say in how things should be ran, and the way you vote is with your donations. Personally, I feel like coaches just make too damn much money and so I don't donate, I don't buy tickets, I watch on TV, maybe once or twice a year I attend a game if we can get tickets.

Same reason I don't watch pro sports, I object to the obscene amounts of money those guys are paid to play a sport. I vote with my dollar.

[Con el Cerdos]

This confuses me.

Why does the AD of a school sign off on a contract that the booster club has with a coach? Makes no sense, why would the AD be involved with that at all?

And further, why would the AD need to keep that from the school, because why would the AD's boss give a crap how much money the booster club was willing to pay a coach if the school fired him?

Guess I'm wrong, but I didn't think school officials were at all involved in those discussions.

Not sure I have a direct answer to your specific questions, regarding the AD's involvement in MANAGEMENT of the Foundation's affairs regarding Bielema's contract.

But if you could ask Chuck Dicus, the Foundation president from 1991 to 2008, about Long's involvement Foundation affairs, I'll bet he could tell you a book.

Dicus was fired soon after he turned down a Long request for $5 million, or thereabouts, I think to replace the playing surface in Razorback Stadium.

And to further indicate AD Long probably had a lot more influence in Foundation affairs, Dicus' replacement came from Long's staff of newly hired assistants.

It's totally possible that Long just screwed up and did not thoroughly read and understand the payout position the Foundation was in after Long extended Bielema's contract after his second season.

I'm beginning to think Long's dismissal should have been for cause.

[Inhogswetrust]

Not sure I have a direct answer to your specific questions, regarding the AD's involvement in MANAGEMENT of the Foundation's affairs regarding Bielema's contract.

But if you could ask Chuck Dicus, the Foundation president from 1991 to 2008, about Long's involvement Foundation affairs, I'll bet he could tell you a book.

Dicus was fired soon after he turned down a Long request for $5 million, or thereabouts, I think to replace the playing surface in Razorback Stadium.

And to further indicate AD Long probably had a lot more influence in Foundation affairs, Dicus' replacement came from Long's staff of newly hired assistants.

It's totally possible that Long just screwed up and did not thoroughly read and understand the payout position the Foundation was in after Long extended Bielema's contract after his second season.

I'm beginning to think Long's dismissal should have been for cause.

Dicus wasn't fired for turning down any request from the AD. Heck some RF board members weren't exactly fond of Long. As far as his replacement id you never stop to think that maybe Swan wanted to go to the RF. Maybe he wanted to get out from Long's "shadow".

[Wooderson]

I think that portion in private money.

I promise you with the way the UofA and RF are intertwined a legal case can be made that it is an operating arm of the UofA. Nobody has ever pushed the issue and challenged it.

First thing that should be done is a mandate that all comms between the UofA and RF be conducted through official channels.

[Inhogswetrust]

I promise you with the way the UofA and RF are intertwined a legal case can be made that it is an operating arm of the UofA. Nobody has ever pushed the issue and challenged it.

First thing that should be done is a mandate that all comms between the UofA and RF be conducted through official channels.

They are. They are conducted between the "officials" at the Foundation and the "officials" at the University. Nothing more official channel wise than that.

[Ex-Trumpet]

This confuses me.

Why does the AD of a school sign off on a contract that the booster club has with a coach? Makes no sense, why would the AD be involved with that at all?

And further, why would the AD need to keep that from the school, because why would the AD's boss give a crap how much money the booster club was willing to pay a coach if the school fired him?

Guess I'm wrong, but I didn't think school officials were at all involved in those discussions.

Exactly, 501(c)3 organizations have to follow VERY strict guidelines to remain a tax-exempt entity.  One of those guidelines is its exclusivity from the program it is supporting.  JL would not have signed off on it--legally.

Band boosters, sports club boosters and the like are violators far too often--but the money isn't there like it is with the RF.  If the RF was to lose its tax-exempt status it would essentially cripple the entire athletics department.  And, the president of the foundation and the board members would all be personally liable, if I'm not mistaken.

[ballz2thewall]

My question though is did Long even see the Contract? Why would the AD even need to? I've just confused on that point.

I mean I could certainly see someone from the RF telling Long how much the buyout was , I just can't understand why he would have to hide that from his boss since the buyout wouldn't cost the school any money , even if it was $1B

he [long] HAS to be involved on the RF end of it, even though the RF is a separate party/guarantor of the contract.

all 3 parties were all over it, and NEED to be.

also, it is not uncommon [no pun intended] for large money deals to have vagaries within the agreement that some/or all parties are aware, but they plow ahead anyway. it happens frequently. 

[ricepig]

I don't know anything about the structure of these deals and don't care to look, but I'll assume you are correct and that the Foundation is the guarantor. At what point does a guarantor want input into the terms of a deal it guarantees? 

And in this deal, doesn't the Foundation actually pay the salaries and buyouts, i.e., or does it simply pay in the case of default like a typical guarantor?

According to the contract between the university and a coach/AD, the RF, or another party will be the third party guarantee for the buyouts. The university can only pay the maximum line item amount allowed by the state. It use to be something around $175,000, I have no idea what it is currently, but it's way under $500,000. The coach's salary is then supplemented by TV show, clothing apparel deals, and RF appearances.

[Hardcore Hoggy]

They are. They are conducted between the "officials" at the Foundation and the "officials" at the University. Nothing more official channel wise than that.

And that would obviously mean that any emails (the way they probably do most of their communicating) and or any other notes about communications and such are available via a FOIA request.Not sure that is an issue here.

[Tusks]

Well again, they ALL F'd up to a tune of $15.4M

[Con el Cerdos]

The school and coach agree on a salary. The RF is the third party guarantee of the contract. Long didn't sign any contract with Bielema from the RF, Sean Rochelle did.

Rice, I don't disagree with this, however, Long should totally understand and be on board with the Foundation contract.  After all, the Arkansas AD is dependent upon Foundation money to meet it's obligations.  He has to be a good steward and waste is never a good thing to have to answer for.  He apparently did with his job.

Wonder why Sean Rochelle wasn't fired?

[ballz2thewall]

I promise you with the way the UofA and RF are intertwined a legal case can be made that it is an operating arm of the UofA. Nobody has ever pushed the issue and challenged it.

First thing that should be done is a mandate that all comms between the UofA and RF be conducted through official channels.

you're referring to Agency, e.g., principal and agent. this may be true on an ad hoc basis, but that Agency, should it exist, will be defined in contract most likely.

in other words, the AD would not have the authority to bind the RF unless the agreement or an agreement between them says so.

there's the notion of "apparent authority" which deals with situations where a person ACTS like he has the authority to bind another. this issue there always focuses on "how did that other party ACT, and what did it know....."

[ricepig]

Well again, they ALL F'd up to a tune of $15.4M

Only if that is the amount paid.

[Wooderson]

And that would obviously mean that any emails (the way they probably do most of their communicating) and or any other notes about communications and such are available via a FOIA request.Not sure that is an issue here.

I guarantee a small portion of discussions are conducted by official email or official cell phone.  They know it would be FOIA material so they do it in person or by unofficial means. ALL comms between the two should be in the open.

[PonderinHog]

Rice, I don't disagree with this, however, Long should totally understand and be on board with the Foundation contract.  After all, the Arkansas AD is dependent upon Foundation money to meet it's obligations.  He has to be a good steward and waste is never a good thing to have to answer for.  He apparently did with his job.

Wonder why Sean Rochelle wasn't fired?

Can't afford his buyout

[Tusks]

Only if that is the amount paid.

If nothing changes, that IS the amount.  So far nothing has changed.

[Inhogswetrust]

Rice, I don't disagree with this, however, Long should totally understand and be on board with the Foundation contract.  After all, the Arkansas AD is dependent upon Foundation money to meet it's obligations.  He has to be a good steward and waste is never a good thing to have to answer for.  He apparently did with his job.

Wonder why Sean Rochelle wasn't fired?

Sean Rochelle had done a good job overall. He also did not answer to the BOT of the University. He answered to the RF board.

[hawgon]

Not sure I have a direct answer to your specific questions, regarding the AD's involvement in MANAGEMENT of the Foundation's affairs regarding Bielema's contract.

But if you could ask Chuck Dicus, the Foundation president from 1991 to 2008, about Long's involvement Foundation affairs, I'll bet he could tell you a book.

Dicus was fired soon after he turned down a Long request for $5 million, or thereabouts, I think to replace the playing surface in Razorback Stadium.

And to further indicate AD Long probably had a lot more influence in Foundation affairs, Dicus' replacement came from Long's staff of newly hired assistants.

It's totally possible that Long just screwed up and did not thoroughly read and understand the payout position the Foundation was in after Long extended Bielema's contract after his second season.

I'm beginning to think Long's dismissal should have been for cause.

Inwas going to say something like this.  I don't know all the details as to exactly why, but it was pretty much accepted that Long got Dicus pushed out at the Foundation and replaced with one of his guys.  To believe that Long had nothing to do with the contract at the Foundation is extremely naive.

[ricepig]

If nothing changes, that IS the amount.  So far nothing has changed.

Unless changes are ongoing, or they haven't been announced. Both parties are negotiating, so that would preclude some type of change.

[Mike Irwin]

Is Sean Rochelle being held accountable?  The RF?  Not saying a witch hunt is called for, but maybe how the RF and UofA conduct business should be visited by lawmakers.

I've been told that Rochelle resigned because he could see that Long would eventually be called onto the carpet for some of the things he was doing through the Foundation. I would be more specific but there is no way to verify some of the things I was told because I can't FOI the Foundation.

[hobhog]

Would be Wallys style. Wait till a story is old and stale and jump in and pounce. He'd never take on something that hadn't already been beaten to death.

[Wild Bill Hog]

I've been told that Rochelle resigned because he could see that Long would eventually be called onto the carpet for some of the things he was doing through the Foundation. I would be more specific but there is no way to verify some of the things I was told because I can't FOI the Foundation.

Well, now you've gone and kicked over a barrel full of worms.

[Inhogswetrust]

I also think Scott Varady has done a good job at the Foundation. He also as Sean did came from the University.

[bphi11ips]

Would be Wallys style. Wait till a story is old and stale and jump in and pounce. He'd never take on something that hadn't already been beaten to death.

Wally's style is to be sure he has the story right before he publishes something that may be irresponisible or defamatory. Just like Mike Irwin. That's responsible journalism.

[Rocket23]

According to the contract between the university and a coach/AD, the RF, or another party will be the third party guarantee for the buyouts. The university can only pay the maximum line item amount allowed by the state. It use to be something around $175,000, I have no idea what it is currently, but it's way under $500,000. The coach's salary is then supplemented by TV show, clothing apparel deals, and RF appearances.

I think 375,000.00 is the max for state employees.