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And then what?????

Started by hogsanity, September 14, 2017, 10:32:53 am

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hogsanity

Quote from: WilsonHog on September 14, 2017, 11:51:53 am
In short, we do what all of college football does. If that means firing and hiring coaches every five years, so be it.

Yep, and it is not working for anyone. The top programs are the same now as they have been for decades. People will point to Clemson. Clemson has had 2 coaches in the last 20 seasons. And Dabo has actually been on staff there for now in his 15th season.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Dominicanhog

Quote from: The_Iceman on September 14, 2017, 12:02:53 pm

We have two 4-star studs on the bench for whatever reason can't play over two walkons. Merrick and Wallace not playing over Gibson and Clary is mind boggling. Those boys at 6'5" 330 and 6'6" 335 should be plowing the road for our running backs.

It is kinda hard to understand.. you just keep going to the fallback position of. the coaches see them everyday...

But it does ask the question.. Did the coaches not evaluate them when they recruited them, or just missed?  ..

 

GuvHog

Quote from: Hogwild on September 14, 2017, 11:56:08 am
I don't think it would have, LSU would have still won the West and destroyed UGA in Atlanta.  The question would have then been who LSU would have been playing in the BCS title game, Bama, Arkansas, or OK State.

A Hog win over LSU that year would have put the Hogs in a 3 way tie for the West title with Bama and LSU.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

Dominicanhog

Quote from: Wildhog on September 14, 2017, 12:06:58 pm
This whole, "If you don't win the SEC then what difference does it make?" nonsense is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this board.

Ironhawg

Quote from: hogsanity on September 14, 2017, 10:32:53 am
BB is gone at the end of the season, and then what, hire another coach and in 5 years when the results are an average of 7-8 wins a year ( which is our average since joining the sec, 25+ seasons ) I guess we will want that guy gone and try someone else?

Oh, and don't forget the new guy will probably be very different in offensive philosophy and will have to try to do that with the ball control type players on campus.

And no, this is not a keep BB thread. It is a why do you expect different results, over time, than any of the other coaches since joining the sec have provided.

So we as fans should continue to financially support the program and willingly accept whatever product is put on the field and be happy? 

PorkRinds

Quote from: Dominicanhog on September 14, 2017, 12:08:35 pm
It is kinda hard to understand.. you just keep going to the fallback position of. the coaches see them everyday...

But it does ask the question.. Did the coaches not evaluate them when they recruited them, or just missed?  ..

Honestly I think the OL system changed since those guys were recruited and they are the old body type Pittman looked for, while the new body type is a bit lighter. It's stupid, but I think that's part of it.

Wildhog

Quote from: GuvHog on September 14, 2017, 12:09:07 pm
No, Bama was undefeated and won the SEC West outright. A win over LSU would have given the Hogs second place (their only loss would have been to Bama) in the SEC West with LSU finishing third (they would have had losses to both Bama and Arkansas).

2011?  No, Bama was not undefeated.  LSU beat them in the regular season.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

jst01

Quote from: Wildhog on September 14, 2017, 12:06:58 pm
This whole, "If you don't win the SEC then what difference does it make?" nonsense is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this board. 



Yes. Don't get it.

Wildhog

Quote from: jst01 on September 14, 2017, 12:10:36 pm
Yes. Don't get it.

Just a loser mentality.  No one here is being unreasonable, but there are a couple of posters that feel it's their responsibility to tell everyone else how they should think.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

hogsanity

Quote from: Wildhog on September 14, 2017, 12:06:58 pm
This whole, "If you don't win the SEC then what difference does it make?" nonsense is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this board. 



Then what is the goal? If the goal is to just win some games, they have been doing that for decades.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Wildhog

Quote from: hogsanity on September 14, 2017, 12:13:20 pm
Then what is the goal? If the goal is to just win some games, they have been doing that for decades.

The goal is ALWAYS to win more games.

Jesus, are you trolling?  Because it's a phenomenal troll job, if so. 
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

GunnerHawg70

Quote from: Dominicanhog on September 14, 2017, 12:08:35 pm
It is kinda hard to understand.. you just keep going to the fallback position of. the coaches see them everyday...

But it does ask the question.. Did the coaches not evaluate them when they recruited them, or just missed?  ..

Not every highly recruited 4-5* athlete makes the cut.  It's unfortunate because most people believe in the 1-5* system placed on players coming out of HS. Bama is a prime example of not everyone regardless of stars see the field. Sometimes it's that underrated, not highly recruited kid who busts his ass day in and day out that has something to prove instead of letting some ranking system control his destiny.  Some players get so caught in their own hype that they lose focus. 

jkstock04

Quote from: 311Hog on September 14, 2017, 11:39:06 am

i didnt think you were saying that.  I was just saying that with CBP's gift etc. it still only amounted to a couple more wins a year and still nothing vs bama etc.

I definitely think CBP is better than CBB in terms of x's o's though i believe players like CBB more. One is sleeze bag other is type of guy you want as a friend.
Cause we do so awesome against Bama now. If we played Bama this weekend Bama would be a 4 td favorite. That's what yalls crutch is against Petrino. Couldn't beat Bama. Oh ya, and "almost" lost against Vandy and Ole Miss. I would take some "almost" wins in the Bielema era but it doesn't happen much.

What's funny is the spin goes the other way with Bielema. Look how close we "almost" won 9 games last year "if only" x happens here and x happens there. Lol
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

 

GuvHog

Quote from: Wildhog on September 14, 2017, 12:10:19 pm
2011?  No, Bama was not undefeated.  LSU beat them in the regular season.

Yeah, I realized my mistake there and changed it. A win over LSU would have put the Hogs in a 3 way tie for the West title. the Hogs would have been easily ranked #2 nationally with that win.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

Wildhog

Is it just an attachment to Bielema?  Maybe these people were psychologically damaged by the Petrino scandal and just hitched their wagon to Bielema, regardless of the results? 
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

hogsanity

Quote from: jkstock04 on September 14, 2017, 12:14:19 pm
Cause we do so awesome against Bama now. If we played Bama this weekend Bama would be a 4 td favorite. That's what yalls crutch is against Petrino. Couldn't beat Bama. Oh ya, and "almost" lost against Vandy and Ole Miss. I would take some "almost" wins in the Bielema era but it doesn't happen much.

What's funny is the spin goes the other way with Bielema. Look how close we "almost" won 9 games last year "if only" x happens here and x happens there. Lol

It is not that they could not beat Bama, it is that the program has not been able to win the big one since 64. 65 lost the Cotton bowl. 69 the shootout. 77 Texas. 79 after beating Texas they lost to Houston in Fayetteville. 89 Miami, 98 Tn, 06 Lsu then Fla, 10 Bama and Aub, 11, Bama and LSu.

Some of you truly do seem to think Hog football started in 2009.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

bphi11ips

Quote from: hogsanity on September 14, 2017, 12:13:20 pm
Then what is the goal? If the goal is to just win some games, they have been doing that for decades.

The goal is to prepare for and play every game to the best of the team's ability and win or lose gracefully while graduating men who are well-prepared for life. 
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

daprospecta

Quote from: HogFaninMemphis on September 14, 2017, 10:41:24 am
I like this sentiment. With that said, I'd give him another year after this. We can't sharpen pitchforks after every game. TCU was clearly better than we were, and the idea that the team isn't always trying its hardest is insane. Go out there and beat A&M, and everyone will forget about TCU. Offensive line most likely is going to be awful again, but come on, it's two games.
Why would you want to give him another year? What does next year hold that makes you believe there is a light at the end of the tunnel?

hogsanity

Quote from: Wildhog on September 14, 2017, 12:18:11 pm
Is it just an attachment to Bielema?  Maybe these people were psychologically damaged by the Petrino scandal and just hitched their wagon to Bielema, regardless of the results? 


It is not BB. I support the coach as long as he is the coach. I just do not see the benefit of continually changing coaches, it is not working here and it is not working in college football as a whole.

What I have always found odd is that they just keep passing the same guys around. Coach can't get it done at school A so they fire him, but school B will pick him up even though he failed at his last job.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Wildhog

Quote from: hogsanity on September 14, 2017, 12:22:33 pm
It is not BB. I support the coach as long as he is the coach. I just do not see the benefit of continually changing coaches, it is not working here and it is not working in college football as a whole.

What I have always found odd is that they just keep passing the same guys around. Coach can't get it done at school A so they fire him, but school B will pick him up even though he failed at his last job.

Well I certainly hope we don't hire a guy that failed at his last job.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

hogsanity

Quote from: bphi11ips on September 14, 2017, 12:21:04 pm
The goal is to prepare for and play every game to the best of the team's ability and win or lose gracefully while graduating men who are well-prepared for life. 

Oh I can't wait to see the replies to this.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Wildhog

Quote from: hogsanity on September 14, 2017, 12:24:14 pm
Oh I can't wait to see the replies to this.

I'm fine with it.  He's not the one bending over backwards to excuse the piss poor product Bielema has put on the field.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

PorkRinds

Quote from: Wildhog on September 14, 2017, 12:23:36 pm
Well I certainly hope we don't hire a guy that failed at his last job.

In his defense, plenty of people are doing just that. Chip Kelley, Brian Kelley, Lane Kiffin, and lord knows I've missed a few. All people who have failed and had people clicking their heels together waiting on them to be hired.

Porkette

Our expectation should be to have a coach who is getting above average results for Arkansas, and then hope he can build on that to take us even further. Not sure how long we stick with Bret Bielema, but so far, he is getting below average results for our program.
GO HOGS GO!

 

Wildhog

Quote from: PorkRinds on September 14, 2017, 12:26:16 pm
In his defense, plenty of people are doing just that. Chip Kelley, Brian Kelley, Lane Kiffin, and lord knows I've missed a few. All people who have failed and had people clicking their heels together waiting on them to be hired.

Well, NFL to college is a whole different deal.  I'm talking about hiring a coach that failed at the college level.

Chip and Bobby failed in the NFL, but had track records of great success in CFB.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

jkstock04

Quote from: hogsanity on September 14, 2017, 12:20:24 pm
It is not that they could not beat Bama, it is that the program has not been able to win the big one since 64. 65 lost the Cotton bowl. 69 the shootout. 77 Texas. 79 after beating Texas they lost to Houston in Fayetteville. 89 Miami, 98 Tn, 06 Lsu then Fla, 10 Bama and Aub, 11, Bama and LSu.

Some of you truly do seem to think Hog football started in 2009.
I'd like to win the big one to but if we can't can we at least get to where we are always in the national conversation of the top 25 on a regular basis? See what I mean?
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

Wildhog

I'd like to not get housed by a bad TCU team in our own stadium.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

PorkRinds

Quote from: Wildhog on September 14, 2017, 12:29:07 pm
I'd like to not get housed by a bad TCU team in our own stadium.

That's a damn good starting point.

Wildhog

Quote from: jkstock04 on September 14, 2017, 12:28:20 pm
I'd like to win the big one to but if we can't can we at least get to where we are always in the national conversation of the top 25 on a regular basis? See what I mean?

"3 wins...10 wins... what's the difference?"
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

hogsanity

Quote from: Wildhog on September 14, 2017, 12:29:07 pm
I'd like to not get housed by a bad TCU team in our own stadium.

So now being ranked in the top 25 means you are a bad team? TCU was 23rd and was a 3pt favorite. And the Hog offense looked terrible.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

hogsanity

I go back to my OP, do we just keep firing guys every few years hoping to catch lightning is a bottle?
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Wildhog

Quote from: hogsanity on September 14, 2017, 12:33:54 pm
So now being ranked in the top 25 means you are a bad team? TCU was 23rd and was a 3pt favorite. And the Hog offense looked terrible.

lol, early season rankings are meaningless and you know it.

TCU did everything in their power to give us that game.  There wasn't any good football played in RRS that day.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

jst01

So much generalization in this. Just because attempting to find an excellent coach hasn't worked lately doesn't mean just stop trying. Who cares if it doesn't work next time either?! Damn I have applied to many positions that were a promotion and better job and I didn't get them, but I am still gonna try to get the better job next time one opens up. My history says "it hasn't worked", but I'm going to try til it does. Trying to find a new coach won't put us in any worse situation we are in now. Not one bit.

PorkRinds

Quote from: hogsanity on September 14, 2017, 12:36:00 pm
I go back to my OP, do we just keep firing guys every few years hoping to catch lightning is a bottle?

Pretty much, yes.

Wildhog

Quote from: hogsanity on September 14, 2017, 12:36:00 pm
I go back to my OP, do we just keep firing guys every few years hoping to catch lightning is a bottle?

Depends on what the coach does.  This isn't an abstract conversation.  Our football team is garbage right now, and it's inexcusable.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

jst01

Quote from: hogsanity on September 14, 2017, 12:36:00 pm
I go back to my OP, do we just keep firing guys every few years hoping to catch lightning is a bottle?

Yes. Bc it's going to take a certain individual to do it here and you have to keep looking for it.

311Hog

Quote from: Wildhog on September 14, 2017, 12:29:07 pm
I'd like to not get housed by a bad TCU team in our own stadium.

How do you know they are bad? I suppose you are one of those people that thinks Toledo was a bad team as well?

Seriously man no one at least not myself is defending Beliema my points have almost nothing to do with him.  My point is some of you are just crazy in what you are saying.

TCU was ranked, favored, more experienced and faster/more physical than we were in our own house.  Part off that is on CBB and the team the other part is TCU is a better team fact.

the point of this thread is not to defend this coach or that coach it is to honestly ask WTH do we do next if CBB is canned/leaves at the end of this season.

On paper nothing about CBB indicated he would fail here, outside of the fact is as hard as 2 day ole sheit to win here even at a mediocre level as so many have pointed out.  it is hard to win 8 games here. real dang hard.  You gotta be lucky to get to 10 and then he woulda coulda shoulda's start happening after that.

hogsanity

Quote from: jst01 on September 14, 2017, 12:38:45 pm
Yes. Bc it's going to take a certain individual to do it here and you have to keep looking for it.

wouldn't it be wise to know what that individual looks like before just throwing a few mil at someone hoping they are that guy?

Without knowing the specific goal, which apparently is NOT winning the league they are in according to what some have posted today, it is hard to know what that guy would look like.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Wildhog

Quote from: 311Hog on September 14, 2017, 12:40:20 pm
How do you know they are bad? I suppose you are one of those people that thinks Toledo was a bad team as well?

Seriously man no one at least not myself is defending Beliema my points how almost nothing to do with him.  My point is some of you are just crazy in what you are saying.

TCU was ranked, favored, more experienced and faster/more physical than we were in our own house.  Part off that is on CBB and the team the other part is TCU is a better team fact.

the point of this thread is not to defend this coach or that coach it is to honestly ask WTH do we do next if CBB is canned/leaves at the end of this season.

On paper nothing about CBB indicated he would fail here, outside of the fact is is hard as 2 day ole sheit to win here even at a mediocre level as so many have pointed out.  it is hard to win 8 games here. real dang hard.  You gotta be lucky to get to 10 and then he woulda coulda shoulda's start happening after that.

Because I watched the game.  That was some BAD football.  They'll probably do ok in conference because the B12 sucks, but they're going to get obliterated when they play an actual good football team.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

311Hog

Quote from: Wildhog on September 14, 2017, 12:41:25 pm
Because I watched the game.  That was some BAD football.  They'll probably do ok in conference because the B12 sucks, but they're going to get obliterated when they play an actual good football team.

both statements i can agree with but i would also say i bet TCU wins 10 games and ends the season ranked and we don't. because we are bad doesn't make them bad.

Again this is the point if a 10 win ranked 23 TCU is bad what is good to you all? that is Hogsanity's point.  You say you don't think SEC championship or bust is what you are saying but that IS what you are saying.

WilsonHog

Quote from: hogsanity on September 14, 2017, 12:36:00 pm
I go back to my OP, do we just keep firing guys every few years hoping to catch lightning is a bottle?

Yes, once said coach has plateaued at a level less than what the program is capable of.

Wildhog

Quote from: WilsonHog on September 14, 2017, 12:42:35 pm
Yes, once said coach has plateaued at a level less than what the program is capable of.

And HS has been adamant that the program isn't capable of any more.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

hogsanity

Quote from: 311Hog on September 14, 2017, 12:40:20 pm


Seriously man no one at least not myself is defending Beliema my points have almost nothing to do with him.  My point is some of you are just crazy in what you are saying.


All the stuff they say is done to keep from admitting what is clear, the Hogs are much more likely to be a one hit wonder every generation than to be a team in the national college football conversation.
The problems can't be fixed to a point to sustain 9+ wins which is what it takes to be relevant. I do not think Saban could do it here.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

311Hog

Quote from: Wildhog on September 14, 2017, 12:45:23 pm
And HS has been adamant that the program isn't capable of any more.

actually i believe HS is saying that using statistics that we are what our record says we are.


Wildhog

Quote from: hogsanity on September 14, 2017, 12:45:54 pm
All the stuff they say is done to keep from admitting what is clear, the Hogs are much more likely to be a one hit wonder every generation than to be a team in the national college football conversation.
The problems can't be fixed to a point to sustain 9+ wins which is what it takes to be relevant. I do not think Saban could do it here.

Strawman.  No one (or at least very, very few) has said that we can sustain 9+ wins/year.   
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

jst01

Quote from: hogsanity on September 14, 2017, 12:41:13 pm
wouldn't it be wise to know what that individual looks like before just throwing a few mil at someone hoping they are that guy?

Without knowing the specific goal, which apparently is NOT winning the league they are in according to what some have posted today, it is hard to know what that guy would look like.

The goal, as you know, is to win every game. Well we both know that's not going to happen. So you hire a coach that you think can do that. Most thought B.B. was one of them. He's not so you try again to find the one. You'll know if you found the right one by the way his team wins and loses its games

Wildhog

Quote from: 311Hog on September 14, 2017, 12:46:45 pm
actually i believe HS is saying that using statistics that we are what our record says we are.



It's not the average that bothers me.  He's right about what our average is, even though we aren't even average right now.

It's the low ceiling that gets me.  CBB will NEVER, EVER, EVER win 10 games at Arkansas.  Not once. He doesn't have the ability.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

311Hog

Quote from: hogsanity on September 14, 2017, 12:45:54 pm
All the stuff they say is done to keep from admitting what is clear, the Hogs are much more likely to be a one hit wonder every generation than to be a team in the national college football conversation.
The problems can't be fixed to a point to sustain 9+ wins which is what it takes to be relevant. I do not think Saban could do it here.

So far this is the gist of the responses.

1. You like Beliema blah blah blah - Wrong
2. We did it before !  - No not really we have had good to great seasons before but nothing sustained since the 70's and nothing on the National champion/conference championship level (winning one).
3. This team or that team is "bad" but will then post about wanting that "bad" teams record and ranking.   - which is it?  Toledo won 11 games  but they are bad and we should have never lost to them.  TCU is probably going to a new years day bowl but they are bad and we should have never lost to them.


Wildhog

Quote from: 311Hog on September 14, 2017, 12:49:42 pm
So far this is the gist of the responses.

1. You like Beliema blah blah blah - Wrong
2. We did it before !  - No not really we have had good to great seasons before but nothing sustained since the 70's and nothing on the National champion/conference championship level (winning one).
3. This team or that team is "bad" but will then post about wanting that "bad" teams record and ranking.   - which is it?  Toledo won 11 games  but they are bad and we should have never lost to them.  TCU is probably going to a new years day bowl but they are bad and we should have never lost to them.



Stop projecting TCU's season.  It's dishonest.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

311Hog

Quote from: Wildhog on September 14, 2017, 12:48:14 pm
It's not the average that bothers me.  He's right about what our average is, even though we aren't even average right now.

It's the low ceiling that gets me.  CBB will NEVER, EVER, EVER win 10 games at Arkansas.  Not once. He doesn't have the ability.

i agree with this entire post, and the question remains how do we change it, or how is it changed?

I wrack my brain trying to think of a guy/system that could feasibly be brought here and win at least up to our program average.

And sadly i come up empty for the most part.  All my brain says is "pray for Saban to get bored and retire".