Top 3 Recuiting Class?

[hogsanity]

Name the last "big time" player we had that wasn't associated with anything Arkansas.

Famutimi? Hood? If we are talking big time coming out of HS.

[RazorPiggie]

Famutimi? Hood? If we are talking big time coming out of HS.

Long dang time ago. Both Richardson recruits and both after our NC.

[hogsanity]

Long dang time ago. Both Richardson recruits and both after our NC.

What no one wants to face is that 95%+ of the time the Hogs only get a real big time recruit is if they are born in state or have some sort of tie to the coach in football and basketball.

Baseball is so different. Players come where they can get a good deal on tuition, academic scholarships, etc because they want to play in warm weather leagues see good pitching and get drafted. Plus, as pointed out, baseball in college is predominately white, mainly middle to upper class kids economically.   

[RazorPiggie]

What no one wants to face is that 95%+ of the time the Hogs only get a real big time recruit is if they are born in state or have some sort of tie to the coach in football and basketball.

Baseball is so different. Players come where they can get a good deal on tuition, academic scholarships, etc because they want to play in warm weather leagues see good pitching and get drafted. Plus, as pointed out, baseball in college is predominately white, mainly middle to upper class kids economically.   

Agreed.

[bkjbearcat]

It looks like Dave Van Horn put together a 3rd ranked recuiting class....  Somebody please tell Brett Beliema that you can recruit to Fayetteville, Arkansas! 

See ya

Can someone tell Mike Anderson that. Tired of striking out on 5*recruits.

[FATHAWG08]

I feel sorry for the Coach at Vanderbilt if the fans see they're #1 in baseball. Crazy to compare!!

[ricepig]

I feel sorry for the Coach at Vanderbilt if the fans see they're #1 in baseball. Crazy to compare!!

Yeah, poor old Vanderbilt has an advantage every other SEC school doesn't have, they give " need based scholarships" to every attendee that qualifies, no matter if you're in a sport or not. LSU is able to give out "state" scholarships to everyone with a 2.5GPA and above, or could until the oil prices crashed and killed their state budget. I think they kept those alive, but truthfully haven't looked in the past year.

[ricepig]

I thought you were linking distance from home as an indicator of how Arkansas is able to get a top 3 class. I went to look at the roster and many kids are from outside of Arkansas and have many other choices nearby. I still don't understand how the players paying part of their tuition and other costs makes Arkansas a better choice for them... We're talking a top 3 class. They aren't all from Arkansas. What makes a guy from Navarre, FL choose Arkansas "Financially" vs coming for the program and/or coach? I do not see a financial correlation that would make that kid choose a different school if both were paying the same % of tuition, up to and including, Full Ride... It's all still gotta boil down to the same choices a football player has to make. Van Horn didn't inherit a dumpster fire, but he has improved Arkansas in his tenure. I'm a CBB guy. I just don't understand your position.

That's it, schools only have 11.7 scholarships for 35 players. A player on scholarship must get 25% minimum, I believe is the rule now. Florida doesn't offer him the money we could, this he comes here. Most of the Arkansas guys get the 25% minimum, if they get anything. They'll get the lottery scholarship plus the vast majority are good students and qualify for an academic scholarship. Parents of travel ball players know good grades are as important as MPH when it comes to college baseball. If you look at our roster, lots of Arkansas guys, Texas(in-state tuition/academic), and guys from north of us who love the indoor facility and atmosphere at Baum because they don't see that in the colleges in their home state.

[hogsanity]

Even Benintendi only got 1/3rd of a scholarship. He is likely going to be one of the top 5 Hogs baseball players ever in terms of major league success, was a 1st rnd draft pick and only got 1/3rd of a scholarship. How many of the greatest Hog football or basketball players in the last 60 years would have been here if they had only gotten 1/3rd of a scholarship?

[IronHog]

It looks like Dave Van Horn put together a 3rd ranked recuiting class....  Somebody please tell Brett Beliema that you can recruit to Fayetteville, Arkansas! 

See ya

Rich suburbanite baseball players vs rural and inner city football players?

NWA should be the mother ship for kids raised in showcase ball coming to pay to play baseball.....

[NEA_HogFan]

I don't know what your point is Shadow.  My point is that you can recruit to Fayetteville, Arkansas.  I've been on the business end of College Baseball Recruiting and I know how it works.  Recruiting is Recruiting, baseball or football or basketball!  Good recruiters get good players....

This mentality within our fanbase that says that you can't recruit to Arkansas, is wrong!  It's an excuse for not getting the job done!



We pay Beliema 4 Plus million dollars to put a winning team on Campus and he isn't doing it!

Again, I say, "Somebody tell Beliema that you can bring in top talent to the U of A!

See ya

Jeff Long doesn't care about winning. He said it himself "we are not a win at all costs program."

[hogsanity]

Rich suburbanite baseball players vs rural and inner city football players?

NWA should be the mother ship for kids raised in showcase ball coming to pay to play baseball.....

It may not be the mothership, but DVH gets his share of top players. I am amazed at how many he convinces to come, even when they are drafted fairly high out of HS.

Jeff Long doesn't care about winning. He said it himself "we are not a win at all costs program."

Not nearly the same as not caring about winning. Just means not being a sleazeball to do so. Obviously some of you wouldn't mind wallowing in the gutter and my guess is you do quite often. 

[IronHog]

It may not be the mothership, but DVH gets his share of top players. I am amazed at how many he convinces to come, even when they are drafted fairly high out of HS.

Not nearly the same as not caring about winning. Just means not being a sleazeball to do so. Obviously some of you wouldn't mind wallowing in the gutter and my guess is you do quite often. 

NWA is a great area if you are a rich kid.....

Middle linebacker from Bastrop?  Might as well be the moon.

[hoghiker]

The day we sign a top three recruiting class is the day before the NCAA puts a satellite office in NWA.

[Wardhog85]

You can't compare the two sports when it comes to recruiting, but you can compare the way that DVH and BB put their staffs together. DVH always has at least one elite recruiter I'm staff. If that coach leaves for another job, he replaces them with another elite recruiter. When Butler left, he replaced him with Vitello, who was named the #2 recruiter in the country. When our elite recruiter, Sam Pittman, left, BB replaces him with a guy that has no proven track record when it comes to recruiting.

[Iwastherein1969]

Do you?  Black, white, brown...  Are we talking about 2-4 basketball players a year, or the 5-7 baseball players a year.  Do you want to address the color of those players?  Much different than landing a football class of 20-25 that can match up against the top teams.

The much larger point that you leave out is that all three sports operate in their own little worlds. Each coach has to operate by the rules of the given sport. The guy who says there's no difference is quite correct. Again, because Anderson and Van Horn are competing within the guidelines that every other coach in their sport has to operate. Yet they succeed. Bielema doesn't. Bielema had one good recruiting year, his first. When that crowd left year before last, we've gone to hell.


ad: oh, and by the way, far and away the best player Bielema coached was recruited by Petrino, the Flowers kid from Alabama who is now a stalwart on the Super Bowl champions NE Patriots.

[Kevin]

don't tell long he might start paying attention baseball

[Iwastherein1969]

don't tell long he might start paying attention baseball

I don't think  DVH would put up with Jeffie's bs for one minute. If it came down to a push or shove, ie, 'you go or I go' between Long and Van Horn. The Board would send Long packing quicker than you can say Bobby Petrino.

[hogsanity]

The much larger point that you leave out is that all three sports operate in their own little worlds. Each coach has to operate by the rules of the given sport. The guy who says there's no difference is quite correct. Again, because Anderson and Van Horn are competing within the guidelines that every other coach in their sport has to operate. Yet they succeed. Bielema doesn't. Bielema had one good recruiting year, his first. When that crowd left year before last, we've gone to hell.


ad: oh, and by the way, far and away the best player Bielema coached was recruited by Petrino, the Flowers kid from Alabama who is now a stalwart on the Super Bowl champions NE Patriots.

They do operate in their own worlds, and I will be the one to say it, the college football world is demographically much harder for the Hogs to operate in when compared to the other football programs.

[bulldog04]

I don't think  DVH would put up with Jeffie's bs for one minute. If it came down to a push or shove, ie, 'you go or I go' between Long and Van Horn. The Board would send Long packing quicker than you can say Bobby Petrino.

There has been talk on this board that is how DVH got his facility.  Long realized he wouldn't last if he lost DVH. Not sure if it's true but makes sense

[Kevin]

They do operate in their own worlds, and I will be the one to say it, the college football world is demographically much harder for the Hogs to operate in when compared to the other football programs.

the change dvh has is the weather compared to most other sec schools. if you can get kids to go from florida to go to Wisconsin to play football, then you can get kids to come to Fayetteville to play football

[zebradynasty]

Here is a suggestion...develop the type of relationship with recruits (especially African American) that they will open up and tell why they don't come here or why they just consider it but never sign. Now I don't expect any of them to say because Ole Miss has a dodge charger with my name on it but maybe you can get honest feedback. THEN address those concerns. That would yield far more accurate information than well we get top baseball and track athletes therefore we should get top football and basketball atheletes!

[hogsanity]

the change dvh has is the weather compared to most other sec schools. if you can get kids to go from florida to go to Wisconsin to play football, then you can get kids to come to Fayetteville to play football

And they do get kids to do that, but not in the numbers needed.

[311Hog]

The day we sign a top three recruiting class is the day before the NCAA puts a satellite office in NWA.

post of the day =)

[hogsanity]

Here is a suggestion...develop the type of relationship with recruits (especially African American) that they will open up and tell why they don't come here or why they just consider it but never sign. Now I don't expect any of them to say because Ole Miss has a dodge charger with my name on it but maybe you can get honest feedback. THEN address those concerns. That would yield far more accurate information than well we get top baseball and track athletes therefore we should get top football and basketball atheletes!

True game changer recruits can go anywhere. They may choose to stay close to home, go to their in state school. They may choose to go to a perennial power. The problem with game changers and elite level players is that most times the Hogs not only have to convince them to leave momma, but to also by pass several power programs between Fay and wherever they call home. Rarely for the type of players it will take to make the leap from 7 or wins a year to 9 or 10, and get those type players in sufficient numbers, is it going to come down to beating out one power school. It is going to mean beating out Bama, and Fla, and Ou, and Ohio St, and FSU and Clemson, or some combo of 3 or 4 of those schools.

[wildturkey8]

True game changer recruits can go anywhere. They may choose to stay close to home, go to their in state school. They may choose to go to a perennial power. The problem with game changers and elite level players is that most times the Hogs not only have to convince them to leave momma, but to also by pass several power programs between Fay and wherever they call home. Rarely for the type of players it will take to make the leap from 7 or wins a year to 9 or 10, and get those type players in sufficient numbers, is it going to come down to beating out one power school. It is going to mean beating out Bama, and Fla, and Ou, and Ohio St, and FSU and Clemson, or some combo of 3 or 4 of those schools.

I've never seen anyone have to work as hard to prove a point.  You think that may have to do with the weakness of your position?

[HogHomer]

I've never seen anyone have to work as hard to prove a point.  You think that may have to do with the weakness of your position?

To be fair some hogville posters are the most dense people I've ever seen. So maybe he just has to overstate his argument so they will get it. Even though most of the time it's just ignored and subjects are changed.

[hogsanity]

I've never seen anyone have to work as hard to prove a point.  You think that may have to do with the weakness of your position?

The position that you can not compare football recruiting to baseball? That is not a hard position to defend.

[Palmetto Hog]

NWA & upstate South Carolina are very similar.  How does Clemson draw 5* players to a school in a rural area? 

[wildturkey8]

The position that you can not compare football recruiting to baseball? That is not a hard position to defend.

I'm referring to the totality of your posts in mmqb.  You know that and once again the deflection points to the weakness of your argument.

[hogsanity]

NWA & upstate South Carolina are very similar.  How does Clemson draw 5* players to a school in a rural area? 

Clemson is smack in the middle of some of the best recruiting in all of America. Draw a circle 300 miles around Clemson and see how many P5 recruits come from in that circle. Now do the same for Fayetteville, ar.

[HogHomer]

NWA & upstate South Carolina are very similar.  How does Clemson draw 5* players to a school in a rural area?

Draw a 200 mile radius with Clemson University at the center on your circle. Then look at all the talent that resides in that 200 mile radius. Now do the same to The UofA. You will have your answers

[HogHomer]

Clemson is smack in the middle of some of the best recruiting in all of America. Draw a circle 300 miles around Clemson and see how many P5 recruits come from in that circle. Now do the same for Fayetteville, ar.

.... You seem like a good guy haha

[hogsanity]

I'm referring to the totality of your posts in mmqb.  You know that and once again the deflection points to the weakness of your argument.

The point is I am not deluding myself into thinking that a program that has been a 7-8 win a year program, on average for the totality of the program ( over 100 years ) is going to become anything different. For a one or 2 year stretch every 10-15 years, sure. But over time they will win about 75 games every 10 years.

[MemphisBossHog]

Do you?  Black, white, brown...  Are we talking about 2-4 basketball players a year, or the 5-7 baseball players a year.  Do you want to address the color of those players?  Much different than landing a football class of 20-25 that can match up against the top teams.

exactly.  My point has never been that BB cannot get a talented recruit to come to Arkansas, but he cannot get 20-25 of them.  He gets a couple here and there and a lot of the time, they have some Arkansas connection.  Alex Collins did not, but it seems most of them do.

As far as basketball goes, it has taken Mike Anderson 6 years to finally get a pretty good class.  He lost a 5* (Reggie Perry) to Miss State.   Imagine that.  A stud African American basketball recruit committed to Ark and then decommitted to go to.......Starkville??   He must have found something about that situation that made him tell Mike A Im not going to honor my commitment to you and Im going to go to your conference competitor.  That really shows how hard it is to get and keep basketball commitments at Ark.  And we all know that whenever Calipari wants someone from Arkansas, he just snaps his fingers and they come running.  So even though Mike may be doing better now, it has taken a while and it is still hard for him to land top notch recruits.  The difference is he needs only 2 or 3 per year not 20 or 25 like BB does.

[hogsanity]

exactly.  My point has never been that BB cannot get a talented recruit to come to Arkansas, but he cannot get 20-25 of them.  He gets a couple here and there and a lot of the time, they have some Arkansas connection.  Alex Collins did not, but it seems most of them do.

As far as basketball goes, it has taken Mike Anderson 6 years to finally get a pretty good class.  He lost a 5* (Reggie Perry) to Miss State.   Imagine that.  A stud African American basketball recruit committed to Ark and then decommitted to go to.......Starkville??   He must have found something about that situation that made him tell Mike A Im not going to honor my commitment to you and Im going to go to your conference competitor.  That really shows how hard it is to get and keep basketball commitments at Ark.  And we all know that whenever Calipari wants someone from Arkansas, he just snaps his fingers and they come running.  So even though Mike may be doing better now, it has taken a while and it is still hard for him to land top notch recruits.  The difference is he needs only 2 or 3 per year not 20 or 25 like BB does.

EXACTLY. Ar has never had problems in football getting one or 2 or even 3 top level players in a class, but while Bama and LSu are getting 3 stars to build depth, AR is getting them to start in many positions.

And yes, Mike has a good class coming up in 2018, but almost all of it is from in state ( which I think proves your point about where most of our great recruits in either sport come from ).

[Rudy Baylor]

EXACTLY. Ar has never had problems in football getting one or 2 or even 3 top level players in a class, but while Bama and LSu are getting 3 stars to build depth, AR is getting them to start in many positions.

And yes, Mike has a good class coming up in 2018, but almost all of it is from in state ( which I think proves your point about where most of our great recruits in either sport come from ).

we often beat LSU on the field

almost half the time

[zebradynasty]

Well we will never get 20-25 in studs in one class but as long as we keep getting 3-4 we will continue to win 7-8 games a year and 9-10 every 10 years or so. If we can just push that number up from 3-4 to 7-9 in each class it will eventually push us to the 8-9 win seasons consistently. Without a strong recruiting base and without a strong history of winning that is about as rational approach to recruiting here as I can think of.

[Cure]

Arkansas is not a football state and can't produce the amount of in-state talent needed on a consistent basis to bring the level of recruiting up. It's a basketball state.

[hogsanity]

Well we will never get 20-25 in studs in one class but as long as we keep getting 3-4 we will continue to win 7-8 games a year and 9-10 every 10 years or so. If we can just push that number up from 3-4 to 7-9 in each class it will eventually push us to the 8-9 win seasons consistently. Without a strong recruiting base and without a strong history of winning that is about as rational approach to recruiting here as I can think of.

Someone else actually gets it.

[IronHog]

Someone else actually gets it.

There are ways to out perform.

UA arrogance and excuse making won't allow that to happen.

[HogHomer]

There are ways to out perform.

UA arrogance and excuse making won't allow that to happen.

Enlighten us then. Tell us what every school that is in the SEC West and has as small a recuriting base as us should do. That is the current predicament we are in. Not many schools are in this situation so what works for them probably won't work for us and what works for us might not work for them.

[hogsanity]

Enlighten us then. Tell us what every school that is in the SEC West and has as small a recuriting base as us should do. That is the current predicament we are in. Not many schools are in this situation so what works for them probably won't work for us and what works for us might not work for them.

Probably just have to want it more. That was the prevailing sentiment a few days ago.

[IronHog]

Enlighten us then. Tell us what every school that is in the SEC West and has as small a recuriting base as us should do. That is the current predicament we are in. Not many schools are in this situation so what works for them probably won't work for us and what works for us might not work for them.

BP gave the blueprint


Beat the bushes for out of state kids that others missed....including some high risk kids.  Get all the top instaters.  Run a system that maximizes what you can recruit....that's speed and skill players. Use JUCO to fill gaps.

Running a ground pounder scheme at Arkansas is foolish....state puts out enough explosive kids that they need to be an attack offense

[hogsanity]

BP gave the blueprint


Beat the bushes for out of state kids that others missed....including some high risk kids.  Get all the top instaters.  Run a system that maximizes what you can recruit....that's speed and skill players.

Running a ground pounder scheme at Arkansas is foolish....state puts out enough explosive kids that they need to be an attack offense

So predictable, yet another who seems to think Hog football started in 2008.

That will work great if all the top in staters are future NFL draft picks at the skill positions. Since that 2008 class Ar HS football has stunk, and has produced precious little top talent at any position. BP's later classes suffered from a lack of instate talent, and so has BB's

And you act like they are not out trying to find talent elsewhere.

[RazorPiggie]

Arkansas is not a football state and can't produce the amount of in-state talent needed on a consistent basis to bring the level of recruiting up. It's a basketball state.

How dare you bring facts in here.

[IronHog]

So predictable, yet another who seems to think Hog football started in 2008.

That will work great if all the top in staters are future NFL draft picks at the skill positions. Since that 2008 class Ar HS football has stunk, and has produced precious little top talent at any position. BP's later classes suffered from a lack of instate talent, and so has BB's

And you act like they are not out trying to find talent elsewhere.

Guys likes like Adams, Wright, and Child's were good players but nothing that isn't coming out of the state on a regular basis.  Brandon Allen was as good as Tyler Wilson physically

They were in a system that let them maximize they're skills.

[zebradynasty]

Someone else actually gets it.

Yep in fact I'm an expert! Said so myself!  Really our way out of this vicious circle is to follow the lead of OU and TN. Unfortunately, we don't have either teams winning tradition nor recruiting base but we are all surrounded by powerhouse programs. It's amazes me how TN gets recruits from such a wide area. That's the ticket easier said than done but this idea of getting a bunch of 2 and 3* recruits, coach them up and win the SEC..is crazy like a soup sandwich!

[hogsanity]

Guys likes like Adams, Wright, and Child's were good players but nothing that isn't coming out of the state on a regular basis. 

You have go tot be joking. No, sadly, you actually believe that.

[IronHog]

You have go tot be joking. No, sadly, you actually believe that.

BP would do well with guys like Jordan Jones