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Author Topic: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy  (Read 1623 times)

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jst01

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To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« on: September 13, 2017, 03:19:24 pm »

Enough of the pro-style. We won't be getting the players to install it effectively. Our last three double digit win seasons were power spread style ('10 & '11) and then the "McFadden style" ('06).  Those three seasons isolated playmakers and focused on the talent we had and let it shine. I don't know what will happen with coaching changes or when, but for the next guy, I hope its someone with a non-prostyle philosophy.
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3Scoreand10

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2017, 04:27:17 pm »

There are no kids playing a "pro style" offence in high school these days.
They will all have to be re-trained and some have difficulty changing.
I like the pro style, but you may be right.  We may need to modify or change our style to better fit those kids coming out of high school.
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Michael D Huff AIA

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2017, 04:29:12 pm »

I want the kind of offense that results in a touchdown when it's first and goal on the 4.
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GoHogs1091

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2017, 04:34:14 pm »

Needs to be an offense that has the following.

Clemson's vertical downfield passing concepts
Oklahoma's outside rushing concepts
Alabama's inside rushing concepts

What we have now is a borderline Tecmo Bowl playbook.
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GoHogzzGo

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2017, 04:38:53 pm »

Play style doesn't matter it is execution.

What is pro style at this point. Lots of pro teams spread it out now too.
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phadedhawg

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2017, 04:41:10 pm »

I shall weep tears of shame if we resort to HUNH attack but that's just me...
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MJ2

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2017, 04:42:23 pm »

Just like CBB is the opposite of Petrino, the next one will a flop back to a wide open offense.
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jst01

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2017, 04:43:56 pm »

I shall weep tears of shame if we resort to HUNH attack but that's just me...

If we could recruit at a higher level with that kind of offense and create an advantage against SEC teams and win more games, you'd have a problem with it?
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phadedhawg

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2017, 04:48:47 pm »

If we could recruit at a higher level with that kind of offense and create an advantage against SEC teams and win more games, you'd have a problem with it?

Winning cures everything so guess not??  It hurt to say that though.  I like a more gentlemanly game of football.  Preventing substitutions seems a gimmick at best and dishonorable in reality. 

Plus, between plays is when I post to Hogville!
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PorkSoda

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2017, 04:52:06 pm »

Play style doesn't matter it is execution.

What is pro style at this point. Lots of pro teams spread it out now too.
you hit the nail on the head.  you don't need 5 start players to execute.  sure they can make the diving one handed catch in the endzone, but even an average player like Morgan was effective by making the routine plays. 

The key is execution.  we didn't execute well or quickly.  they did.  our plays developed slowly and their players got to the spot fast tempo than our guys.

you aren't going to win many games (except against the FAMUs of the world) that way.

Why did Petrino's teams excel?  because he was a perfectionist when it came to execution.  He demanded that they execute precisely and at a quickly, or it wasn't good enough.

I don't care if we only have 4 plays in the play book, if we execute them properly, they will be effective. 
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Bubba's Bruisers

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2017, 04:56:39 pm »


What is pro style at this point. Lots of pro teams spread it out now too.

Bingo.  People act like pro-style is static.  That it hasn't evolved. 
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jst01

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2017, 04:58:17 pm »



Why did Petrino's teams excel?  because he was a perfectionist when it came to execution.  He demanded that they execute precisely and at a quickly, or it wasn't good enough.

I don't care if we only have 4 plays in the play book, if we execute them properly, they will be effective. 

Execution is obviously needed, to be good at anything in life.  But Petrino had the team execute AND he ran an offense that catered to the skill of the players and got the skilled players the ball.  I don't feel like the current team does that. Too worried about balance and pro-style attack so we can pass to set up the run and vice versa.
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Bubba's Bruisers

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2017, 05:02:51 pm »

Execution is obviously needed, to be good at anything in life.  But Petrino had the team execute AND he ran an offense that catered to the skill of the players and got the skilled players the ball.  I don't feel like the current team does that. Too worried about balance and pro-style attack so we can pass to set up the run and vice versa.

So did BP's offense not resemble a pro-style while at UA?  I think it did.
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PorkSoda

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2017, 05:02:59 pm »

Execution is obviously needed, to be good at anything in life.  But Petrino had the team execute AND he ran an offense that catered to the skill of the players and got the skilled players the ball.  I don't feel like the current team does that. Too worried about balance and pro-style attack so we can pass to set up the run and vice versa.
can't argue with that.  The play calling was bad.  I will never understand why we didn't QB sneak behind of our future NFL Center and instead used slow developing run plays that handed the ball off 5 yards deep in the back field.
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Bubba's Bruisers

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2017, 05:04:06 pm »

can't argue with that.  The play calling was bad.  I will never understand why we didn't QB sneak behind of our future NFL Center and instead used slow developing run plays that handed the ball off 5 yards deep in the back field.

Speaking of all the slow developing, deep in the backfield run plays starting from under center, how much of that do you see in the pros these days?
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RazorPiggie

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2017, 05:14:41 pm »

Just like CBB is the opposite of Petrino, the next one will a flop back to a wide open offense.

I think they are somewhat similar.

Last year AA threw the ball 401 times.

During Malletts years, he threw the ball 403 in 09 and 411 in 10.

BP was "Pro-style" like but was more out of the shotgun. We weren't a hurry up offense. And obviously we had more over a vertical passing game but he had 3 WRs and 1 TE that got drafted, and 2 of those WRs were speedy. Last year AA had possession WRs (Hatcher & Morgan). They didn't stretch the field much.

I don't mind what we did last year offensively. Now you have to find a way to get it in the EZ from inside the 5 and wish we were more consistent for 4 quarters.
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RazorPiggie

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2017, 05:16:17 pm »

If we could recruit at a higher level with that kind of offense and create an advantage against SEC teams and win more games, you'd have a problem with it?

Outside of getting a top 5 coach or cheating you aren't going to recruit at a high level.
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PorkSoda

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2017, 05:32:26 pm »

wish we were more consistent for 4 quarters.
does consistently bad for 4 quarters count?
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HiggiePiggy

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2017, 05:37:49 pm »

Outside of getting a top 5 coach or cheating you aren't going to recruit at a high level.

People seem to not understand this sometimes. We will never out recruit Alabama, LSU, Auburn, and Texas A&M. Sometimes we will out recruit Ole Miss and most of the time out recruit Mississippi State. These things will not happen unless we are a 10+ win team each season for probably 5 years straight. 


What Arkansas needs is a coach that is specialized in offense or defense. We need to be very good at one of these every single game. CEO coaches do not do well here because usually they are not specialized at offense or defense.
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hogfansince79

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2017, 05:41:22 pm »

can't argue with that.  The play calling was bad.  I will never understand why we didn't QB sneak behind of our future NFL Center and instead used slow developing run plays that handed the ball off 5 yards deep in the back field.

I agree, and I'll add... why not try Cole Kelly (6'-7", 278 lbs) running that QB sneak.
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PLHawg

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2017, 09:13:03 am »

Even Saban last year relented and allowed Kiffin to install some spread, HUNH elements to the offense.  The biggest problem I see to the pro style offense is every QB out of high school runs some form of spread out of the shotgun.  They're brought in here and they have to unlearn everything they've been doing since 7th grade, as a result they're in no way ready to take the reigns of the offense until their 3rd year or in some cases 4th year.  Let's face it, the spread when executed well puts points on the board, and it's hard to defend unless you have an elite defense, such as Bama's. The argument for the pro style offense is to basically bruise the defense and dominate time of possession, neither of which we've done effectively in quite a while.
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Hog Fan...DOH!

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2017, 09:23:28 am »

We are absolutely a fanbase that would rather lose throwing the ball.
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HawgHawk

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2017, 09:26:54 am »

We are absolutely a fanbase that would rather lose throwing the ball.

Not this one part of the fan base.
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jst01

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2017, 09:28:02 am »

We are absolutely a fanbase that would rather lose throwing the ball.

That's a false belief about spread offenses. It's not all about passing. Knile Davis had a pretty outstanding year in 2010 running the ball with Mallett in the shotgun most of the time with 4 WR's spread out.
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GuvHog

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2017, 09:28:52 am »

I shall weep tears of shame if we resort to HUNH attack but that's just me...

It's possible to run the spread without going HUNH. Many coaches do it. The Hogs ran the Power Spread from 2008 through 2011 but not the HUNH.
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hogsanity

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2017, 09:29:46 am »

We are absolutely a fanbase that would rather lose throwing the ball.

Said it for years, all the way back to Hatfield, they would rather lose 49-42 than win 17-10 type of games. They seem to forget we had a 3,000+ yard passer last year.
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Razor1997

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2017, 09:34:27 am »

Just like CBB is the opposite of Petrino, the next one will a flop back to a wide open offense.

Well then, we'd better give him five years to build his system and get his guys in there.
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Malvin

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2017, 09:37:44 am »

Quote
Play style doesn't matter it is execution.

This.
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jst01

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2017, 09:55:55 am »

Said it for years, all the way back to Hatfield, they would rather lose 49-42 than win 17-10 type of games. They seem to forget we had a 3,000+ yard passer last year.

AR has a lot better chance recruiting skilled offensive guys and outscoring opponents than they do recruiting at the level needed on BOTH sides of the ball to score enough and have a defense hold teams to 10, as you say. 
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lstewart

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2017, 09:58:19 am »

After attending the loss to TCU last Saturday, my son and I had a long discussion about success at Arkansas, and style of offense. We agreed it can be an advantage if you run something unique, that defenses are not zoned in on stopping every week. He said he read an article that showed the option was the current most successful offense in relation to actual wins, as compared to wins a team should be expected to have based upon the talent on their roster. So, for example, Georgia Tech might have an average recruiting class ranking of 45th, so the computer would expect they would average 6 wins a season or something. But in fact, they average 8 or something. I am just making up numbers to explain the logic, I don't have the actual data. But I think the service academy's and GT are the main schools running the option. My son looked up the offensive coordinator at Georgia Tech, and he is a former Hog option QB under Hatfield. How is that for an off the wall change?!!!!
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GunnerHawg70

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2017, 09:59:07 am »

Even Saban last year relented and allowed Kiffin to install some spread, HUNH elements to the offense.  The biggest problem I see to the pro style offense is every QB out of high school runs some form of spread out of the shotgun.  They're brought in here and they have to unlearn everything they've been doing since 7th grade, as a result they're in no way ready to take the reigns of the offense until their 3rd year or in some cases 4th year.  Let's face it, the spread when executed well puts points on the board, and it's hard to defend unless you have an elite defense, such as Bama's. The argument for the pro style offense is to basically bruise the defense and dominate time of possession, neither of which we've done effectively in quite a while.

I agree 100%.  The vast majority of teams (incl when RM and TW were on the Hill) ran an offense that gave the QB more time to operate.  Taking the QB out from under center will give AA more time to go through his progressions.  RM and TW were successful because they were under center only 25% or less of the entire game...Execution is paramount and this will need to be a priority no matter what offensive formation the boys operate out of.  I would like to see CDE get away from the "jet sweep".  Not sure if that play statically has created more success than fail.  Look at every SEC school, the majority of snaps from QB's are sitting in shotgun-esqe formation, this will allow AA to see the rush, potential blitzes, L/M/R field of view to find open WR's, potential running lanes and dump into flat for RB's if all else fails.

It's great to know that we all see this and hopefully that Staffer monitoring Social Media for the Hogs can go back to the Coaching Staff and say "Hey Boss!!! The dudes on HV might be on to something!!!"   ;)
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draftkings33

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2017, 10:19:38 am »

You do know Bobby Petrino ran a pro style offense here right?
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draftkings33

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2017, 10:20:47 am »

But I do think Allen is not a pro style QB.  Too small
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VirginiaHog

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2017, 10:23:53 am »


You do know Bobby Petrino ran a pro style offense here right?
[/quote]
Actually, he called it a power spread.
But yes it was essentially pro style.
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jst01

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #34 on: September 14, 2017, 10:30:08 am »



Actually, he called it a power spread.
But yes it was essentially pro style.

If the offense here the past 4 years has been 'pro-style', then what Petrino ran was definitely not pro-style.  Forget the wording, the concept of what the power spread did was let the QB have multiple weapons across the field and read the defense from a better position, 5 yards behind the center. We ran the ball over 300 times in 2010 out of the pistol.
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BigE_23

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #35 on: September 14, 2017, 10:30:51 am »

Play style doesn't matter it is execution.

What is pro style at this point. Lots of pro teams spread it out now too.

It does matter, because what if you don't have the players to execute the system. That's kinda the whole point.
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Tiredofhogssucking

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #36 on: September 14, 2017, 10:31:25 am »

I agree 100%.  The vast majority of teams (incl when RM and TW were on the Hill) ran an offense that gave the QB more time to operate.  Taking the QB out from under center will give AA more time to go through his progressions.  RM and TW were successful because they were under center only 25% or less of the entire game...Execution is paramount and this will need to be a priority no matter what offensive formation the boys operate out of.  I would like to see CDE get away from the "jet sweep".  Not sure if that play statically has created more success than fail.  Look at every SEC school, the majority of snaps from QB's are sitting in shotgun-esqe formation, this will allow AA to see the rush, potential blitzes, L/M/R field of view to find open WR's, potential running lanes and dump into flat for RB's if all else fails.

It's great to know that we all see this and hopefully that Staffer monitoring Social Media for the Hogs can go back to the Coaching Staff and say "Hey Boss!!! The dudes on HV might be on to something!!!"   ;)

AMEN!  How about a Pistol formation.  We can still use our play action game (fakes) but we get AA away from our Oline and the other team's DLine and we can buy more time for AA to go through his progressions.  Should be able to keep the same playbook...just run everything from the Pistol formation. 
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BoynamedWooPigSooie

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #37 on: September 14, 2017, 10:43:14 am »

What we have now is a borderline Tecmo Bowl playbook.

Poppycock. That playbook works but we don't have any RB's that can take it to the house like we used to always have.  Bielema's inability to sign elite RB's despite his reputation should have been one of the first red flags.
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oldhog63

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #38 on: September 14, 2017, 10:53:11 am »

. . .What Arkansas needs is a coach that is specialized in offense or defense. We need to be very good at one of these every single game. CEO coaches do not do well here because usually they are not specialized at offense or defense.

AR has a lot better chance recruiting skilled offensive guys and outscoring opponents than they do recruiting at the level needed on BOTH sides of the ball to score enough and have a defense hold teams to 10, as you say. 

I would rather have the head coach that is specialized on the defensive side of the ball as I think that would lead to more consistent play, but I think jst01 is correct that it is easier to recruit the skilled offensive players. Either way, this jack of all trades, master of nothing, CEO approach is not working.
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LRHawg

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #39 on: September 14, 2017, 11:04:33 am »

I want the kind of offense that results in a touchdown when it's first and goal on the 4.

and the coach that can get that done.
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Roctavious

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #40 on: September 14, 2017, 12:19:23 pm »

There are no kids playing a "pro style" offence in high school these days.
They will all have to be re-trained and some have difficulty changing.
I like the pro style, but you may be right.  We may need to modify or change our style to better fit those kids coming out of high school.

If there are no high schools playing pro-style offenses, where are all these pro-style quarterbacks coming from?
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GunnerHawg70

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #41 on: September 14, 2017, 12:24:24 pm »

If there are no high schools playing pro-style offenses, where are all these pro-style quarterbacks coming from?

hey Roctavious...Why are you asking intelligent questions??? You know you wrong for that!!!  They make "Pro-style / Pocket Passer" style QB's in Narnia!!! ;)
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Roctavious

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #42 on: September 14, 2017, 12:43:47 pm »

hey Roctavious...Why are you asking intelligent questions??? You know you wrong for that!!!  They make "Pro-style / Pocket Passer" style QB's in Narnia!!! ;)

Can you get 2-day Amazon Prime shipping from there?
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PLHawg

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #43 on: September 14, 2017, 12:54:24 pm »

If there are no high schools playing pro-style offenses, where are all these pro-style quarterbacks coming from?


In high school you're either categorized as pro style QB or dual threat QB.  Very few pro style QB's in high school are taking snaps from under center.
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jcbville

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #44 on: September 14, 2017, 02:56:28 pm »

So did BP's offense not resemble a pro-style while at UA?  I think it did.

BPs offense was Pro-Style
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PorkSoda

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #45 on: September 14, 2017, 05:43:28 pm »

If the offense here the past 4 years has been 'pro-style', then what Petrino ran was definitely not pro-style.  Forget the wording, the concept of what the power spread did was let the QB have multiple weapons across the field and read the defense from a better position, 5 yards behind the center. We ran the ball over 300 times in 2010 out of the pistol.
I'm not sure what "pro style" really means, but by the way it is used it seems to mean the QB plays under center instead of from the shotgun which is usually associated with spread offenses.
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Athog

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #46 on: September 14, 2017, 05:44:26 pm »

Play style doesn't matter it is execution.

What is pro style at this point. Lots of pro teams spread it out now too.

Exactly!
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Arkansas Fan

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #47 on: September 14, 2017, 06:18:35 pm »

It doesn't matter the offense, it's about execution. Sure, good playcalling and having the personnel to do it helps too.
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12247

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #48 on: September 14, 2017, 07:03:40 pm »

I know we keep hearing that BB operates a Pro Style offense and in some ways he does.  But more often than not, he abuses the system.  Only idiots keep running into a line on short yardage in the same place with the same people behind the same line and continue to fail time and time again.  That isn't pro style football. The Pros still find ways to attack a particular defense even though most NFL teams operate very similar defenses.  Nearly every team has different strong and weak points in their defenses and that always alters the Pro attack.  Not BBs attack but smart operated NFL attacks.

BB seems to believe that if he can run into FAMs line for 5 yards a carry that he can do that against anyone, you know like TCU, BAMA, Aubbie, etc..  Truth is we don't actually run anything but a theory.  We want to run a power running game, then we want to run a power running game, then we want to run a power running game.  Then we are in trouble and we want to try things we haven't really worked on much like throwing the ball, cleanly, accurately and on time.  Then we want to get the fast Guy in the lineup to strut around the end but no one is on the same page because we've never tried it but it sounds good now that we cannot go up the middle.  So in comes fast Guy, ice cold and stiff,  and the D has seen this little change up before because it is vintage Arkansas and they hammer the fast Dude for no gain or a fumble and oops, that ends it for fast Dude today but we will trot him out next game in the same situation.  Our QB who has way more feel for the game than any of the coaches frowns when some brain dead pass play is called feeling it won't work and sure enough, it doesn't.  We telegraph nearly every play we run by the personnel we use to run it and then wonder why it doesn't work.

To call us a pro style offense is such a stretch.
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presidenthog

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Re: To next coach: No more Pro-Style philosophy
« Reply #49 on: September 14, 2017, 07:23:49 pm »

I'm ready to run a ton of RPO's. Its not fair at the college level because you can run block 3 yards down field on a pass play. We need to use this busted rule in our favor. We aren't.
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