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Author Topic: Recruiting problem  (Read 2292 times)

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Surfing8

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #50 on: September 11, 2017, 12:40:00 pm »

LOL at this thread.

Talent was not the issue Saturday... so recruiting was not the issue.
You have to be able to do something with the talent you have.

A real coach such as Chris Petersen would take this team and be demolishing opponents by the end of the season. 
The dumbass we have for a leader has no idea how to use what he's got.
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longpig

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #51 on: September 11, 2017, 12:45:40 pm »

The talent is on campus.   Coaching is the problem.

Average fan assumed the majority of reps had started being given to a select few WRs in the last week of camp at the latest.  They weren't.  This staff had to see a lack of chemistry in the passing game in TWO GAMES.  Coach B still on the job training in year 5 getting $4 million.  It didn't occur to him you had to put wrinkles in your playbook each week till year 3.  He's shown a talent for recruiting, just can't see what he's got once it's here.  Recruiting good.  Coaching bad.  Real bad.
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longpig

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #52 on: September 11, 2017, 12:55:14 pm »

LOL at this thread.

Talent was not the issue Saturday... so recruiting was not the issue.
You have to be able to do something with the talent you have.

A real coach such as Chris Petersen would take this team and be demolishing opponents by the end of the season. 
The dumbass we have for a leader has no idea how to use what he's got.

Anyone else suspect he may have mental issues?  There are a lot of coaching fundamentals he should have picked up on as a player.  Maybe he had them and now doesn't. The way he is increasingly squinching his eyes to recall what happened last week is concerning.   
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redneckfriend

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #53 on: September 11, 2017, 01:13:45 pm »

People see it, they just do not want to acknowledge it because IT CAN NOT BE FIXED.

The logical conclusion to this is the same conclusion any objective, rational person would have had on the day Broyles negotiated Arkansas into the SEC- we have no business being in that conference if the most important issue is football. That can be fixed. I think Long has done a good job finding coaches in all sports given the circumstances but if he were a really visionary AD he would get Arkansas out of the SEC because this whole thing is starting to seem like "Groundhog Day" and, after years of futility, coaches are going to understand that they cannot recruit and win at Arkansas at a level necessary to satisfy the fan base.
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zebradynasty

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #54 on: September 11, 2017, 01:47:14 pm »

LOL at this thread.

Talent was not the issue Saturday... so recruiting was not the issue.
You have to be able to do something with the talent you have.

A real coach such as Chris Petersen would take this team and be demolishing opponents by the end of the season. 
The dumbass we have for a leader has no idea how to use what he's got.

That is what I've been saying about being honest to ourselves...unless it's and FBS team we ain't demolishing jack! I've asked 3 times on various threads (No one answers) what OL we have outside of Ragnow could have started for TCU or what LBs we have, what DL besides Agim...yet we have just as much talent ???
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hawgon

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #55 on: September 11, 2017, 01:50:20 pm »

That is what I've been saying about being honest to ourselves...unless it's and FBS team we ain't demolishing jack! I've asked 3 times on various threads (No one answers) what OL we have outside of Ragnow could have started for TCU or what LBs we have, what DL besides Agim...yet we have just as much talent ???

You know it's kind of hard to say.  Talent is dependent on coaching and development.  We have lots of guys who had they gone to TCU might be in a better spot now and look more talented.  We have others who if they were in a system that utilized their skills better would look more talented.  And we probably still have others who if they got better coaching day to day would look much more talented.
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hogsanity

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #56 on: September 11, 2017, 02:01:07 pm »

The logical conclusion to this is the same conclusion any objective, rational person would have had on the day Broyles negotiated Arkansas into the SEC- we have no business being in that conference if the most important issue is football. That can be fixed. I think Long has done a good job finding coaches in all sports given the circumstances but if he were a really visionary AD he would get Arkansas out of the SEC because this whole thing is starting to seem like "Groundhog Day" and, after years of futility, coaches are going to understand that they cannot recruit and win at Arkansas at a level necessary to satisfy the fan base.

In 1990, when the deal was made, I doubt anyone knew how tough it was going to be to recruit in the SEC, not to mention the arms race that would develop among the SEC and in college football in general in coaches salaries, facilities, etc.

I know this will hurt a lot of feelings, but Hog football looks just like most of AR HS football, slow, fat and soft.
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PLHawg

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #57 on: September 11, 2017, 02:10:00 pm »

The logical conclusion to this is the same conclusion any objective, rational person would have had on the day Broyles negotiated Arkansas into the SEC- we have no business being in that conference if the most important issue is football. That can be fixed. I think Long has done a good job finding coaches in all sports given the circumstances but if he were a really visionary AD he would get Arkansas out of the SEC because this whole thing is starting to seem like "Groundhog Day" and, after years of futility, coaches are going to understand that they cannot recruit and win at Arkansas at a level necessary to satisfy the fan base.


Really, after BB is gone we won't have much choice but to go after a young up-and-comer or mid-level HC, or even a current coordinator.  Unless you have the fire and brilliant offensive mind of a BP type of coach, you will not be successful here and it could be a career killer.  That is reality, fortunately we have plenty of $ to throw at someone, because that's what it's going to take.
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oldhog63

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #58 on: September 11, 2017, 03:22:50 pm »

The talent level (consistent mid 20's in recruiting) doesn't match the product on the field. To me that means the player development/coaching is not getting the job done.
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MJ2

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #59 on: September 11, 2017, 04:14:50 pm »

Average fan assumed the majority of reps had started being given to a select few WRs in the last week of camp at the latest.  They weren't.  This staff had to see a lack of chemistry in the passing game in TWO GAMES.  Coach B still on the job training in year 5 getting $4 million.  It didn't occur to him you had to put wrinkles in your playbook each week till year 3.  He's shown a talent for recruiting, just can't see what he's got once it's here.  Recruiting good.  Coaching bad.  Real bad.

And seems to be getting worse.   He's staring at that big buyout and licking his chops - basically saying "show me tha money!".
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hogsanity

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #60 on: September 11, 2017, 04:36:36 pm »

The talent level (consistent mid 20's in recruiting) doesn't match the product on the field. To me that means the player development/coaching is not getting the job done.

you do know consistent mid 20's is still around 9-11 in the sec.
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Kevin

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #61 on: September 11, 2017, 04:37:39 pm »

why recruit, just take walk ons. they seem to be the players that can handle our difficult system
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #62 on: September 11, 2017, 04:45:24 pm »

I think his problem is that he knows what kind of player can be competitive in the Big 10, but not what kind of player can be competitive in the SEC.  It's also hard for me to imagine him winning over too many Southeastern moms in the living room.

He has known what type of player it takes to beat OM. 

Why would he not win over moms in the SE?
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Surfing8

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #63 on: September 11, 2017, 04:47:34 pm »

you do know consistent mid 20's is still around 9-11 in the sec.

...and better than TCU 4 out of the past 5 years.
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Hog-Corleone

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #64 on: September 11, 2017, 04:48:50 pm »

I don't think it is a recruiting problem, it is a development problem. 
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oldhog63

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #65 on: September 11, 2017, 05:05:01 pm »

...and better than TCU 4 out of the past 5 years.
Exactly my point.
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Letsroll1200

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #66 on: September 11, 2017, 05:19:41 pm »

Let the players play! CJ O'GRADY is better than Cantrell at TE. He's made more plays in a limited role than Cantrell. It's not recruiting!
TJ Hammonds can play. We all seen it. Our explosive players are on the sideline.
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Letsroll1200

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #67 on: September 11, 2017, 05:21:06 pm »

you do know consistent mid 20's is still around 9-11 in the sec.

They are rated ahead of Toledo, Texas Tech and TCU.
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IronHog

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #68 on: September 11, 2017, 05:21:13 pm »

Ty Clary is starting at RG. That tells you all you need to know about Offensive Line recruiting and development. There is the #1 problem with this team and coaching staff.

That is not to bash Ty. It's just he should be redshirting right now. Same goes for Froholdt last year. Neither should have had to play when they did.


Why do they get to play and not Wallace or others?


BB plays favorites and it's caught up to him.  He's done
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IronHog

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #69 on: September 11, 2017, 05:22:45 pm »

you do know consistent mid 20's is still around 9-11 in the sec.



You can recruit mid 20s and still kick FGs and put a functioning OL on the field.


Recruiting is an excuse for not winning NCs.....not playing TCU
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Letsroll1200

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #70 on: September 11, 2017, 05:39:58 pm »


Why do they get to play and not Wallace or others?


BB plays favorites and it's caught up to him.  He's done

This!
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hawgon

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #71 on: September 11, 2017, 05:49:54 pm »


Why do they get to play and not Wallace or others?




Probably the same reason that certain players get kicked off the team for not going to a lab that the professor told them was not mandatory.
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IronHog

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #72 on: September 11, 2017, 05:52:19 pm »

Probably the same reason that certain players get kicked off the team for not going to a lab that the professor told them was not mandatory.


Exactly lol
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hawgon

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #73 on: September 11, 2017, 06:09:12 pm »


Exactly lol

We could use a tall speedy upperclassmen receiver or two could we not?
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HawgFan70

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #74 on: September 11, 2017, 06:18:47 pm »

The guy is a used car salesman who is very intelligent. Bielema knew the Big 10 wouldn't stay in the dumpster forever, when Urban Meyer was hired at OSU, he found his best option and bailed. He sent Long the letter and got himself hired at Arkansas. He knew he had 5 years to draw 4 million per with zero accountability. The fans fell in love because he said everything they wanted to hear. Claiming to have this super staff assembled, he was so arrogant he wouldn't recruit Texas. Assistants have seen the light and bailed at the first option, because they know he would throw his own mother under the bus to save his sorry a$$. We now find ourselves in year 5 with a bunch of 2nd rate coordinators and assistants. The team we saw Saturday is what the Razorbacks are, it wasn't an isolated incident. Credit the man for scamming the fans, media and University of Arkansas out of 30 million dollars. We have 2 more years of this ish show so prepare for more of what we got Saturday
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Dark Helmet Hog

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #75 on: September 11, 2017, 06:24:24 pm »

LOL at this thread.

Talent was not the issue Saturday... so recruiting was not the issue.
You have to be able to do something with the talent you have.

A real coach such as Chris Petersen would take this team and be demolishing opponents by the end of the season. 
The dumbass we have for a leader has no idea how to use what he's got.

lol

I think you may be right.

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Big Daddy

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #76 on: September 11, 2017, 07:01:25 pm »

Is beleima horrible at evaluating the talent of high school players, bad at player development?   Or is it something else?   We have a kicker who was the #1 ranked kicker out of high school who can't kick field goals.  The offensive line depth is a appalling.   The hogs are average at running back, which may be largely due to aforementioned offensive line.   And I've never seen a QB regress like AA.   It looks like he is freshman in his first two starts.    So how have the hogs gotten to this point?  If The offense plays like wet garbage again vs the Aggies is AA out and Cole Kelley in?   My opinion, IF Arkansas struggles again moving the ball vs the Aggies Kelley will be given an opportunity to see if the offense plays better with him.   At that point coach B will be desperate because he will know he is coaching for his job.   But has he recruited and/or developed players at the other positions well enough to salvage this season regardless who is at QB?

He has proven he is a below average OL evaluator. He's gotten lucky a few times but overall is very poor.
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IronHog

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #77 on: September 11, 2017, 07:48:23 pm »

We could use a tall speedy upperclassmen receiver or two could we not?


There are several upperclassmen that should still be here....
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IronHog

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #78 on: September 11, 2017, 07:49:19 pm »

He has proven he is a below average OL evaluator. He's gotten lucky a few times but overall is very poor.

There is a pretty good OL on campus......he just can't get it on the field
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hawgon

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #79 on: September 11, 2017, 07:51:04 pm »

Don't forget that Drew Morgan would have never seen the field if about five receivers hadn't gotten injured.  Bert had him sitting the bench.
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IronHog

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #80 on: September 11, 2017, 07:54:38 pm »

Don't forget that Drew Morgan would have never seen the field if about five receivers hadn't gotten injured.  Bert had him sitting the bench.


Gibson had to beg to play.


He's the one guy on the OL that can flat move people around....
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #81 on: September 11, 2017, 08:00:16 pm »

The talent is on campus.   Coaching is the problem.

Thanks Mr. Expert talent evaluator guy.
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Surfing8

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #82 on: September 11, 2017, 08:03:07 pm »

Thanks Mr. Expert talent evaluator guy.

Well he's right, Mr. Expert post evaluator guy.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #83 on: September 11, 2017, 08:05:20 pm »

Well he's right, Mr. Expert post evaluator guy.

Really. How so? HOW does he know what talent is and if there is enough on campus. Better yet how do you know that he knows.
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longpig

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #84 on: September 11, 2017, 08:11:38 pm »

Don't forget that Drew Morgan would have never seen the field if about five receivers hadn't gotten injured.  Bert had him sitting the bench.
Morgan was getting reps early on, just never showed much in practice.  is one of those guys that plays better than he practices.
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AP85

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BallHog1

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #86 on: September 12, 2017, 12:34:59 pm »

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Surfing8

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #87 on: September 12, 2017, 12:44:39 pm »

Yeah, that's the team that "out-recruited" us and we kept beating them....

...and TCU is the team that we "out-recruited" and they just "pushed it in" until our team didn't want anymore Saturday.

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NaturalStateReb

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #88 on: September 12, 2017, 01:10:19 pm »

He has known what type of player it takes to beat OM. 

Why would he not win over moms in the SE?

Thank God for that, or he'd have only 7 SEC wins in 4 years.  Yikes!  He really should be sending us and LSU thank you notes.  We're the only reasons he's not a complete conference failure.

On the SE moms, I don't know.  He's full Midwesterner, kind of a blowhard, not very churchy, probably shows up in a windsuit.  You can probably get away with that if you've got results. 
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #89 on: September 12, 2017, 01:12:33 pm »

Thank God for that, or he'd have only 7 SEC wins in 4 years.  Yikes!  He really should be sending us and LSU thank you notes.  We're the only reasons he's not a complete conference failure.

On the SE moms, I don't know.  He's full Midwesterner, kind of a blowhard, not very churchy, probably shows up in a windsuit.  You can probably get away with that if you've got results.
Drinks too much beer.  Gambles. Married a young blond. 
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razorbackfaninar

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #90 on: September 12, 2017, 05:30:49 pm »

There is a pretty good OL on campus......he just can't get it on the field

Do you mean that there is a good OL that can't "get on" the field or one that is having trouble picking up the offense?
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HiggiePiggy

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #91 on: September 12, 2017, 05:43:00 pm »

Well...yes it was because our fans don't want to accept that TCU had better players overall than we do which goes back to recruiting.

From what ranking are you looking at that shows they have out recruited us since Beliema took over?  I saw 1 season where they had a better recruiting class than Arkansas on Rivals.  I didn't look else where though so if there are more recruiting rankings that have them out recruiting Arkansas let me know.
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Jek Tono Porkins

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #92 on: September 12, 2017, 06:12:55 pm »

Ty Clary is starting at RG. That tells you all you need to know about Offensive Line recruiting and development. There is the #1 problem with this team and coaching staff.

That is not to bash Ty. It's just he should be redshirting right now. Same goes for Froholdt last year. Neither should have had to play when they did.
Yeah that's a head scratcher. I mean we have a senior right tackle that was a top 100 right tackle out of high school and has played nothing but right tackle since he's been here but his spot is currently occupied by a walk on converted d-lineman. That walk on converted d-lineman is good for a walk on converted d lineman, but wth? Why is that senior right tackle not an absolute road-grader right now?

We've also got a junior o-lineman that was a 4-star out of high school that is sitting #2 center behind a really good center which is understandable, but he was originally a guard and our guard spots are being held by a walk-on freshman and another converted d-lineman. Is that really the best use for him?

Finally, we've got a 5th senior that played guard last year that apparently got beat by again, a freshman walk on and a converted d-lineman.

I don't know what goes on in practice, but something ain't adding up there.
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IronHog

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #93 on: September 12, 2017, 06:30:38 pm »

Do you mean that there is a good OL that can't "get on" the field or one that is having trouble picking up the offense?

There is a decent OL on campus that needs putting in the right positions and reps.

Not an elite line but better than that mess they're trotting out there right now....
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Jonbo

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #94 on: September 12, 2017, 06:32:46 pm »

THIS! I can't say this enough! As soon as I saw Clary emerge as the starter for first game, I knew we were in trouble. Should be ZERO excuse for that lack of player development.
Yeah, I want him fired for
1)poor player development, especially with OL which are supposed to be his specialty. I really don't begin to know if it's mostly poor development or if it's poor evaluation, but after 5 seasons we can see it's not working. If Clary had dominated out there then you might have to admit that wow!, we have a phenomenon, but with what happened, Clary performing about the way you'd expect a freshman OL to, it raises the question, why/how is he a better option then Wallace, for example. I believe the coach has to answer for that. Developing OL is supposed to take time. He's had 5 years and seems to have not gotten it done.

2) Every season coming out of camp he seems to have no idea who are his best game-day players, so we cycle through the roster for several games. Finally the team gels and play improves quite a bit. At least that's my impression. It seems to me that shouldn't be nearly so much a factor. The failure of the kicker, Hedlund, for example, after, what, 3 seasons (?)of watching him (attempt to)perform, should have in no way caught him by surprise the way it seemed to. No way should he have asked him if he needed to have a penalty taken before the first kick, then blamed the kid later for saying no. He, being familiar with the kid and the team, AND BEING THE COACH, should have taken the penalty automatically. Instead he exhibited passive and passive/aggressive behavior.

I'm afraid I'm thoroughly on the "dark side" now. Well, who isn't?
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MJ2

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Re: Recruiting problem
« Reply #95 on: September 13, 2017, 04:38:10 pm »

Thanks Mr. Expert talent evaluator guy.

It's easy.   Just ask the 50% of the college coaches who lost last week.
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