Just me, or did 32 lbs. to Monk's frame seem like a lot.....

[McKdaddy]

maybe I'm just paranoid about the yearly "Decker phenomenon (i.e. gain wt., size, but lose speed).

[RazorRedneck]

When did he add that weight?

[Chief Mac]

maybe I'm just paranoid about the yearly "Decker phenomenon (i.e. gain wt., size, but lose speed).

Supposedly he ran a FASTER 40 this year than last.  Also, this was really his first offseason dedicated to adding football weight and hitting the weight room.  He was split playing bball and fb in hs and thus no football offseason program.  For an athlete of his caliber, it wouldn't be a stretch for him to put that kind of weight on.  I used to put 10-15lbs on every offseason during high school.

WPS

Chris

[McKdaddy]

Over the summer per a Nate Allen article released this am.

[McKdaddy]

maybe I'm just paranoid about the yearly "Decker phenomenon (i.e. gain wt., size, but lose speed).

Supposedly he ran a FASTER 40 this year than last. Also, this was really his first offseason dedicated to adding football weight and hitting the weight room. He was split playing bball and fb in hs and thus no football offseason program. For an athlete of his caliber, it wouldn't be a stretch for him to put that kind of weight on. I used to put 10-15lbs on every offseason during high school.

WPS

Chris

I'm definitely paranoid, then.

[McKdaddy]

Cobbs "supposedly" ran a fast 40 after they put about 25 pounds on him after his freshman year.
Nutt still tried to say it after we watched Ken Hamlin chase him down from behind in the Red-White game.
He was never the same.

Hence my paranoia.

[Chief Mac]

Cobbs "supposedly" ran a fast 40 after they put about 25 pounds on him after his freshman year.
Nutt still tried to say it after we watched Ken Hamlin chase him down from behind in the Red-White game.
He was never the same.

It depends on where the weight gain was to whether it will have the "Cobbs" effect.  If he gained the majority in his upper body considering he had a basketball build when he arrived last year and is SIX FOOT SIX INCHES tall, then it SHOULDN'T slow him down and will make him more effective in gaining seperation at the line of scrimmage versus press coverage.  Herring was quoted as saying that the weight Brown can gain and still be effective is in his upper body.  Same priniciple used against those big OT's versus CB's for Monk. 

WPS

Chris

[mikeirwin]

Cobbs "supposedly" ran a fast 40 after they put about 25 pounds on him after his freshman year.
Nutt still tried to say it after we watched Ken Hamlin chase him down from behind in the Red-White game.
He was never the same.

Hence my paranoia.

I will double check on the extra weight thing and personally talk to Marcus about this after practice today. If he has indeed put on that much weight it won't take long to see if it affects him this season.
Like some of you I am always concerned when a kid who has a good freshman year suddenly comes back bigger (which usually means heavier) and supposedly faster.
I'm skeptical that this will be a good thing but I will withhold judgement until I can get more real information.

[Chief Mac]

Cobbs "supposedly" ran a fast 40 after they put about 25 pounds on him after his freshman year.
Nutt still tried to say it after we watched Ken Hamlin chase him down from behind in the Red-White game.
He was never the same.

It depends on where the weight gain was to whether it will have the "Cobbs" effect. If he gained the majority in his upper body, then it SHOULDN'T slow him down and will make him more effective in gaining seperation at the line of scrimmage versus press coverage. Herring was quoted as saying that the weight Brown can gain and still be effective is in his upper body. Same priniciple used against those big OT's versus CB's for Monk.

WPS

Chris

I don't see that. If it's all in his upper body, then it's like telling the kid to run with a sack of feed on his shoulder.
I doubt there's any of them that will run faster doing that.

I didn't say ALL, just most.  The kid was what 205lbs last year and now add about 15-20 lbs to that upper body and the rest of the weight elsewhere and it isn't bad.  I understand the concern given what Cobbs went through, but Monk and Cobbs are two different body types.  Adding 25lbs to a 6ft person is ALOT.  Adding 32lbs to a 6'6" guy and it isn't that bad.  Also, he gained the weight over the last 4-6 months while still performing conditioning and agility exercises to ensure that his body got used to the weight.  I'm not saying the weight is good or bad gain, just saying that it could be good.

WPS

Chris

[mikeirwin]

The first time I remember hearing the "bigger but faster" claim was the year after Ron Dickerson Jr. arrived back during the J. Crowe days. As it turned out Dickerson Jr. was bigger but much slower.
He was also a promising long jumper. John McDonnell told me the weight room people were giving the kid jars of peanut butter so he could add weight. I won't repeat what John's reaction was. I will only say that Dickerson Jr. never did much as a long jumper in college. He did score a key TD against Texas in '91. But I've always wondered how good he could have really been without the peanut butter diet.
I seriously doubt Decker is giving Monk peanut butter since he was not working at Arkansas at the time. But as always anytime a kid gains weight it bears watching to make sure the "bigger but faster" claims are accurate.

[Biggus Piggus]

Mike, have you had a recent conversation with McDonnell about the football program's notion of adding weight "while keeping the speed"?  My understanding is he believes it is impossible.  He believes in replacing body fat with muscle and working out in the activities that one intends to do in competition.  Running a 40 is not an approximation, BTW, of whether a football player's game performance will be affected by the weight.

Adding 32 pounds to a 205-pound guy is more than a 15% increase.  That's a lot.  I don't believe all that 32 happened this summer.  It started last fall; his 205 was an August weight.  He was listed bigger than that in basketball.  Monk had tons of easy benefits to get from starting a serious workout program.  If he shows that he has lost nothing in stamina (actually may have improved with better functional strength and flexibility), then Monk could be a lot better football player this season.  That wouldn't break my heart.

[Hogger]

I don't believe it hurt Matt Jones!   

[CorningHog]

I was at practice Saturday and Monk still looked smooth and very fluid.  I agree with Biggus that Monk came in over last summer weighing 205 and looked real skinny, but I thought somewhere I heard he was 220 at some point during the football season, and would believe that more than the 205. 

If he weighs 237 now, it will be a little heavier and he obviously ran with this weight all summer as well as the extra conditioning and weight room work.  Some players bad habits develop with diets and all and it does not necessarily mean Decker caused it.

Lifting weights and working out hard, plus running and doing agility drills like jumping rope, sprints, etc.... I can't see that affecting Monk in the wrong way.  IF he did put on nearly 20 more pounds than last year and it was not in extra muscle but fat, which I would seriously doubt with Monk, then it will be obvious to Monk too.

The players know what happens and it usually points to a lazy summer with the added weight.  In athletes like college football players, especially skill players, there will be a "maturing" process with the weight room and structured workouts.  These multisport guys especially finally start working all the muscle groups and work both sides of the muscle areas which causes a slight increase in mass.   Look at Chris Baker, Cedric Washington and even Cedric Logan this year, these guys have all added some weight to themselves in muscle mass and seem just as fast as ever. 

Did anyone notice Marc Winston?  This guy looks like the biggest change in upper body size.  Also, Tony Ugoh seems like his arms are huge compared to last year.

GO HOGS!

[WILL CLINTON]

so, let's see.  He is 6'6", weighs 237 now, with the 32 extra pounds, and runs a 4.5 40.  If he drops another .10 off his 40, I wonder how long it will be before nutt puts him at QB?  sorry, couldn't resist.  I dont understand.  The past NFL drafts, Mike williams, Charles Rogers, Roy Williams have all been taken very high in the draft.  They were all over 6'4" I believe.  In the past 4 years we have had 4 6'6" WR and only one of them has stayed at WR, Monk.  jamaal anderson, anthony brown, monk and matt jones. 

[RazorRedneck]

I just don't believe the 32 lbs.  The last time I saw the kid on camera he still looked like he had a tape worm.

[Chief Mac]

Mike, have you had a recent conversation with McDonnell about the football program's notion of adding weight "while keeping the speed"? My understanding is he believes it is impossible. He believes in replacing body fat with muscle and working out in the activities that one intends to do in competition. Running a 40 is not an approximation, BTW, of whether a football player's game performance will be affected by the weight.

Adding 32 pounds to a 205-pound guy is more than a 15% increase. That's a lot. I don't believe all that 32 happened this summer. It started last fall; his 205 was an August weight. He was listed bigger than that in basketball. Monk had tons of easy benefits to get from starting a serious workout program. If he shows that he has lost nothing in stamina (actually may have improved with better functional strength and flexibility), then Monk could be a lot better football player this season. That wouldn't break my heart.

I believe in both programs, weight training and activity specific training.  We used the "Bigger, Faster, Stronger" program which used a combination of weight, flexibility, agility, and activity specific training.  Our teams were never the biggest but we were strong, quick, and fast.

WPS

Chris

[Biggus Piggus]

I don't believe it hurt Matt Jones!

Matt Jones never added 32 pounds, Hogger.  I'm gonna guess that adding 32 pounds would have affected his performance.  Maybe he should have though, as badly beaten as he was every season.

[Biggus Piggus]

so, let's see. He is 6'6", weighs 237 now, with the 32 extra pounds, and runs a 4.5 40. If he drops another .10 off his 40, I wonder how long it will be before nutt puts him at QB? sorry, couldn't resist. I dont understand. The past NFL drafts, Mike williams, Charles Rogers, Roy Williams have all been taken very high in the draft. They were all over 6'4" I believe. In the past 4 years we have had 4 6'6" WR and only one of them has stayed at WR, Monk. jamaal anderson, anthony brown, monk and matt jones.

Roy Williams = 6-2.  Charles Rogers = 6-3.

Surely you understand why Matt Jones did not stay at receiver.  Brown didn't because he couldn't catch a cold.  Anderson was moved due to urgent need at defensive end.  If anybody should have stayed at receiver besides Monk, Anderson was the guy.

[Chief Mac]

so, let's see. He is 6'6", weighs 237 now, with the 32 extra pounds, and runs a 4.5 40. If he drops another .10 off his 40, I wonder how long it will be before nutt puts him at QB? sorry, couldn't resist. I dont understand. The past NFL drafts, Mike williams, Charles Rogers, Roy Williams have all been taken very high in the draft. They were all over 6'4" I believe. In the past 4 years we have had 4 6'6" WR and only one of them has stayed at WR, Monk. jamaal anderson, anthony brown, monk and matt jones.

Roy Williams = 6-2. Charles Rogers = 6-3.

Surely you understand why Matt Jones did not stay at receiver. Brown didn't because he couldn't catch a cold. Anderson was moved due to urgent need at defensive end. If anybody should have stayed at receiver besides Monk, Anderson was the guy.

I believe these guys have been/were allocated properly in order to win and in order to get them on the field somehow.

WPS

Chris

[illuzionz14]

32 lbs is an overstatement.  He looks like he's gain some good weight although.  Regardless of the weight, he's going to be a playmaker this year.

[Hogger]

I don't believe it hurt Matt Jones!

Matt Jones never added 32 pounds, Hogger. I'm gonna guess that adding 32 pounds would have affected his performance. Maybe he should have though, as badly beaten as he was every season.

Matt Jones was 215 his freshman year.  Was 242 when he ran a 4.37 at the combine.  That's 27 pounds.  Matt went from 6-5 to 6-6 during that time as well.

I haven't read the article, but I assume Monk is up to 237 since he came in last year weighing 205.  That is still 5 pounds less than MJ at the same height.

[Flatline]

I don't believe it hurt Matt Jones!

Yea, that's true but Matt has been a Freak of Nature since he was in JR. High.

[HighOnHogs]

http://www.wholehogsports.com/story.php?paper=nwat&storyid=31267


Another good article about Brown

http://www.wholehogsports.com/story.php?paper=adg&storyid=125275

[NuttsSacked]

Monk's next position in the NFL...

http://www.neworleanssaints.com/playerbio.cfm?playerid=113

[madduckdog]

Monk is faster. It is a fact.

[WILL CLINTON]

Ok, the quip about moving Monk to QB was just a joke.  I was making reference to him loosing a tenth of a second off his 40 and then basically being the same size/speed as Matt Jones.  I didn't know that williams and rogers were that small, but I also didn't take the time to look either.  I personally wouldn't care if they put Dowell Loggains on the D-Line if it would help us win.  I would, though, have liked to see our QB having 2 guys 6'6" to throw to. 

[Swino]

I noticed the other day where one of our coaches stated that Brown runs a 4.4 in the 40.  Right.  I don't trust our coaches one bit concerning players actual speed.

[Chief Mac]

I noticed the other day where one of our coaches stated that Brown runs a 4.4 in the 40. Right. I don't trust our coaches one bit concerning players actual speed.

The times they are using are from pro day when pro scouts timed players

WPS

Chris

[Theolesnort]

If he gained 32 pounds I don't know where he put it. He still looked slim and trim last Saturday. Come to think of it he was gaunt looking last fall so maybe he did put on 10 to 15 pounds but 32 has to be an exaggeration.

[Buck Ocean]

If he gained 32 pounds I don't know where he put it. He still looked slim and trim last Saturday.

I'll tell you......the butt, hamstrings and quads.

Monks had a big butt last year, and he does this year too.  Assuming that he was not 0% body fat coming out of highschool, he could have had extra fat stored in the backside.....remember: lean muscle mass>fat mass....

its possible to burn fat and add lean muscle.  however it's totally unheard of to gain weight doing this process unless you use steroids.  I dont give a dang what you may say to contradict this one guys, but thats the honest truth.  I know for a fact, because I do it every spring.  No wonder why McDonnel doesnt like the peanutbutter.  Sure its got protein, but the fat content is 12grams to 7 grams of protein......somebody else do the freakin math.

[mikeirwin]

Cobbs "supposedly" ran a fast 40 after they put about 25 pounds on him after his freshman year.
Nutt still tried to say it after we watched Ken Hamlin chase him down from behind in the Red-White game.
He was never the same.

Hence my paranoia.

I will double check on the extra weight thing and personally talk to Marcus about this after practice today. If he has indeed put on that much weight it won't take long to see if it affects him this season.
Like some of you I am always concerned when a kid who has a good freshman year suddenly comes back bigger (which usually means heavier) and supposedly faster.
I'm skeptical that this will be a good thing but I will withhold judgement until I can get more real information.

I talked to Marcus about this after practice yesterday. He said he gained about 20 pounds from his senior year in HS through his freshman year at Arkansas. He said he's down about 10 pounds this year from last year and feels quicker.
Looking at him he didn't not appear to be showing any signs of excess weight.

[Biggus Piggus]

The basketball program listed him at 225 pounds.  I don't know where they got that number.

[hogmary]

I don't think the problem with extra weight is so much slowing down, but a lack of flexibility and injuries.  Cobbs didn't get hurt before he gained all that weight.  He ran track to slim down.  Richard Smith and Batman both gained way too much weight...Smith had nagging injuries, nothing major, after that, his performance in track, as well as on the football field, were affected.  Batman slimmed down his senior year and definitely looked better.  Cobbs, Smith and Batman all three lost weight because of track.  I do know that the track coaches don't like all that added weight.  I don't remember Matt being hurt until he gained weight.

Are you sure that it's Decker and not the football coaches telling him what they want him to do with the players?

[Hoggimistic]

The basketball program listed him at 225 pounds. I don't know where they got that number.

Probably the same place you seem to get your numbers.  Make 'em up or manipulate them.  They didn't say he what he had in his hands when he was weighed.

[Biggus Piggus]

I saw your first post.  You can't fool me.

[Hoggimistic]

Not trying to fool you old wise one.  I thought the second more fitting, since you do use actual numbers sometimes. 

[Biggus Piggus]

So...if Monk is down 10 pounds from last year, does he really weigh 237?  Did he really weigh 247 last year?  I'm really confused now.

[mikeirwin]

So...if Monk is down 10 pounds from last year, does he really weigh 237? Did he really weigh 247 last year? I'm really confused now.

According to him he weighed 230 last year, 220 this year, 210 in HS.

[Biggus Piggus]

And Heath Allen wrote (the reason for this whole thread):

"Monk's 6-6, 205-pound frame provided Jones with an ample target to work with last fall. Monk has added 32 pounds since last season and that stature could loom even larger in the offensive picture in 2005 with an unseasoned quarterback crouched under center." 

The headline referred to a "larger, quicker Monk."  So you're saying he's actually smaller and quicker.  Which is a whole lot different story.

[mikeirwin]

And Heath Allen wrote (the reason for this whole thread):

"Monk's 6-6, 205-pound frame provided Jones with an ample target to work with last fall. Monk has added 32 pounds since last season and that stature could loom even larger in the offensive picture in 2005 with an unseasoned quarterback crouched under center."

The headline referred to a "larger, quicker Monk." So you're saying he's actually smaller and quicker. Which is a whole lot different story.

Yes. Monk said the big weight gain occurred during his freshman year, although it was 20 lbs. not 37. He said he felt too heavy last year so he lost about 10 lbs. and now he feels quicker.

[TulsaHogFan]

Damn thank you for clearing that up, i have picked up a 20 pound bag and said, damn now i feel quicker.....