Now that it has been established that the basketball team was in horrific shape

[ColumbianHog]

Agreed.  But as stated before, you don't have to play the kids at the spot where they'll play in the NBA.  You can play a 6'8" guy at center in college even though he'll play SF/PF in the pros.  Get the best kids available and you'll have a great shot every season.

Yes..but I'm not a big fan of them moving to a different position. It's tough to pull off and usually they go lower in the draft because they are a tweener. Make no mistakes about it, Donovan goes after guys he can not only get drafted, but high. You can't get that done going after tweeners. If you're a recruit and one coach is sitting there who tells you not only will you win, but you will be drafted in the top 10 and another coach who tells you you'll also win but you know you will be drafted in the mid to late to 2nd round because you really have the body to be a small forward in the NBA but they want you to play power forward. Where would you go? There was a lot made of Thomas dropping the weight last year. Someone had to have told him he was too short to play power forward in the league and needed to focus on being quicker to play the three.

What about Okafor, May, Sheldon Williams, Horford/Noah, etc...?  They all played C in college but PF in the pros and they all were drafted (or will be drafted) fairly high. 

I agree that it's tougher to change but as long as you're not going from C to SF or PF to SG or something like that you should be ok.  If you're pro level talent then you'll get drafted no matter where you played in college or where you'll play in the pros.  Lots of NBA players play different positions throughout the season (or sometimes the same game) depending upon injuries and recent success.

I'm not sure Donovan tries to recruit set position players instead of tweeners.  I'm thinking he just goes after the best talent available.  If he needs a SG then he looks for a G with a sweet shot and range.  No matter if the kid will play PG in the pros.  If he needs a C then he looks for a guy that can play the post, block shots, and rebound.  No matter if he'll play PF or even SF in the pros.

[LJHOG]

regardless of who starts or doesn't start this team will be better if they're in shape rather than out of shape.

[cardinalhawg]

No, i dont believe you have to have giants to win in basketball.  You mentioned Corliss right?  Are you kiddin me?  He was what? 6'4-6'5?

If you read my post better i said you could use guys that are 6'8-6'9.  Thats are pretty good size kid.  If i was betting.  I would say that Horford was around 6'8-6'9.  Townes and Thomas fit that mold as well.  And Washington.  Go ahead a pull up our roster.  Just cause we have a guy listed at 6'10-7'0 doesnt mean they arent actually 6'9 or so.  I believe Hill is legit though. 

And are you to tell me that we couldnt win with Washington(6'9) and Thomas(6'8 )?  I guess we will see.  I think before the season is over those 2 will be the starters.  Or Townes. 

Rebounding isnt about size.  Its about grit.  Doesnt matter if your 7'5 or 6'5.  Beverly could outrebound 3quarters of our team.  In Pel's style we dont need BIG men. 

Nolan had Corliss and Stewart.  I would be darned surprised if Stewart was taller than 6'9.  Again, go ahead and pull out your '94 sports illustrated memrobialia and prove me wrong.  I'm sure in 94' he was listed 7'8 right?

I disagree some in regards to not needing big men.  Big men are important, as the team will have to play half court ball a lot.  That team with Corliss and Stewart could do play both full court and half court ball well.  Darnell Robinson and Lee Wilson were also on that team, and while they didn't play up to the potential that many of us expected, they were still key role players and contributors.  All in all, there was plenty of height when factoring in Robinson, Wilson, Stewart, and Corliss.  I know Corliss was undersized, but he was one of the best high school players in the nation, when he came to play for the Razorbacks, and was very skilled offensively.

It would be good to have the players than can play both styles, like Nolan's best teams could.

[cardinalhawg]

oliver miller was 6'9 and he owned shaq, every time we played them . shaq had no answer and was too slow to cover millers 3 point shots .

Oliver was a baller.  Hill is not.

There have been many times where Hill disappointed me, but this last year, I started realizing his importance, as he did show some life on the offensive end, plus he keeps getting better and better defensively.  His defense if very crucial.

[southtxhog]

I don't hate Stephen Hill.  However, a kid his size should dominate inside.  He just doesn't seem to try, he reminds me of Shaun Bradley.

I really believe even I could out-rebound him if I had to.  I hope you guys are right and he has a great year, but we have heard that every year and he seems to care more about his hair than getting a rebound or dunking the ball.

Good lord...how tall are you?

I'm only 5'10".  My point is, he just doesn't seem to care when he is on the floor.  He doesn't hustle.  I hope everyone on here is right about Pel turning him around, but I'll believe it when I see it.  I'm not sure you can teach "heart", that ability to get the rebound no matter who is around you and then FREAKING DUNK IT.  He doesn't rebound and misses to many easy shots inside.  I'm tired of hearing every year how much better he looks.  It's bullcrap.

Did you actually watch any games this year?  Hill had a pretty good year.  To say we "wasted a scholarship on him" is a pretty unfair and ridiculous statement.  Yes he is a good shot blocker, but his offense really developed this year.  I suspect with the workouts they are getting he will only get stronger. 

I am glad Coach Pel is working them so hard right now.  It's nearly impossible to get any better without a strong offseason workout program.

[oldfart]

i agree with you, there have been plenty of great 6-8 or so guys at center and PF.. look at alabama, they thrive on that type of guy.  rebounding is WANT TO and position, not how high you can jump.  90% of rebounds are taken below the rim.  Ive seen few "great leapers" who were really good rebounders. 

No, i dont believe you have to have giants to win in basketball.  You mentioned Corliss right?  Are you kiddin me?  He was what? 6'4-6'5?

If you read my post better i said you could use guys that are 6'8-6'9.  Thats are pretty good size kid.  If i was betting.  I would say that Horford was around 6'8-6'9.  Townes and Thomas fit that mold as well.  And Washington.  Go ahead a pull up our roster.  Just cause we have a guy listed at 6'10-7'0 doesnt mean they arent actually 6'9 or so.  I believe Hill is legit though. 

And are you to tell me that we couldnt win with Washington(6'9) and Thomas(6'8 )?  I guess we will see.  I think before the season is over those 2 will be the starters.  Or Townes. 

Rebounding isnt about size.  Its about grit.  Doesnt matter if your 7'5 or 6'5.  Beverly could outrebound 3quarters of our team.  In Pel's style we dont need BIG men. 

Nolan had Corliss and Stewart.  I would be darned surprised if Stewart was taller than 6'9.  Again, go ahead and pull out your '94 sports illustrated memrobialia and prove me wrong.  I'm sure in 94' he was listed 7'8 right?

[wholehog92]

When I played, my coach always said step 1 of rebounding was position.  Hill was setting screens 15-20 feet from the basket for the shooter.  Getting rebounds got him fouls as often as not.  His rebounding will improve with an offense that doesn't put him out of position.  His shot needs work still, his D is great.  If he can average 6-8 points a game and remain a shut down defender, I am going to say he is one of the most valuable players on the team.  At no point would I put any credence to anything said by someone who claims his scholly is wasted.

[HogLove]

I like how every positive post has to turn into "bash a player" post.  FYI, I'm pretty sure he's already been promised the ball more and more minutes.  TRUST ME...you're not going to see anyone else start at the 5 aside from Hill.  Sorry to disappoint you.  And by the way...about not working hard...the only three players who are not out of shape and have been working out religiously this summer are Hill, Cyrus and Andrew Boyd (the walk on).  That's why they had to run Cleveland hill.  Not because of Hill's lack of desire but because of everyone else's. 

[Held Hawgstage]

Good post up Hog love.

[dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya]

I like how EVERY positive post has to turn into "bash a player" post. 

I've told you a million times not to exaggerate.

As far as him working hard...great.  He needs to bring that hard work to the games.  Make a freaking lay-up.

[cardinalhawg]

I like how every positive post has to turn into "bash a player" post.  FYI, I'm pretty sure he's already been promised the ball more and more minutes.  TRUST ME...you're not going to see anyone else start at the 5 aside from Hill.  Sorry to disappoint you.  And by the way...about not working hard...the only three players who are not out of shape and have been working out religiously this summer are Hill, Cyrus and Andrew Boyd (the walk on).  That's why they had to run Cleveland hill.  Not because of Hill's lack of desire but because of everyone else's. 

It is good to hear that those three have been working hard, especially Cyrus.  I suppose the injury played a big part, but he sure did look slow out on the court this past season.  To this point, it has looked like a wasted scholarship and unfulfilled potential with him, but hopefully he can live up that billing and potential he had as a high school recruit.

[VoR]

I don't hate Stephen Hill.  However, a kid his size should dominate inside.  He just doesn't seem to try, he reminds me of Shaun Bradley.

I really believe even I could out-rebound him if I had to.  I hope you guys are right and he has a great year, but we have heard that every year and he seems to care more about his hair than getting a rebound or dunking the ball.

Good lord...how tall are you?

I'm only 5'10".  My point is, he just doesn't seem to care when he is on the floor.  He doesn't hustle.  I hope everyone on here is right about Pel turning him around, but I'll believe it when I see it.  I'm not sure you can teach "heart", that ability to get the rebound no matter who is around you and then FREAKING DUNK IT.  He doesn't rebound and misses to many easy shots inside.  I'm tired of hearing every year how much better he looks.  It's bullcrap.

I couldn't help when I read this to think about Airplane when the little kid tells Kareem Abdul-Jabbar his dad thinks he's lazy, thanks for the smile and light hearted reminder :-)

[dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya]

I don't hate Stephen Hill.  However, a kid his size should dominate inside.  He just doesn't seem to try, he reminds me of Shaun Bradley.

I really believe even I could out-rebound him if I had to.  I hope you guys are right and he has a great year, but we have heard that every year and he seems to care more about his hair than getting a rebound or dunking the ball.

Good lord...how tall are you?

I'm only 5'10".  My point is, he just doesn't seem to care when he is on the floor.  He doesn't hustle.  I hope everyone on here is right about Pel turning him around, but I'll believe it when I see it.  I'm not sure you can teach "heart", that ability to get the rebound no matter who is around you and then FREAKING DUNK IT.  He doesn't rebound and misses to many easy shots inside.  I'm tired of hearing every year how much better he looks.  It's bullcrap.

I couldn't help when I read this to think about Airplane when the little kid tells Kareem Abdul-Jabbar his dad thinks he's lazy, thanks for the smile and light hearted reminder :-)

Ever been in a Turkish prison?

[VoR]

I don't hate Stephen Hill.  However, a kid his size should dominate inside.  He just doesn't seem to try, he reminds me of Shaun Bradley.

I really believe even I could out-rebound him if I had to.  I hope you guys are right and he has a great year, but we have heard that every year and he seems to care more about his hair than getting a rebound or dunking the ball.

Good lord...how tall are you?

I'm only 5'10".  My point is, he just doesn't seem to care when he is on the floor.  He doesn't hustle.  I hope everyone on here is right about Pel turning him around, but I'll believe it when I see it.  I'm not sure you can teach "heart", that ability to get the rebound no matter who is around you and then FREAKING DUNK IT.  He doesn't rebound and misses to many easy shots inside.  I'm tired of hearing every year how much better he looks.  It's bullcrap.

I couldn't help when I read this to think about Airplane when the little kid tells Kareem Abdul-Jabbar his dad thinks he's lazy, thanks for the smile and light hearted reminder :-)

Ever been in a Turkish prison?

Surely you jest!

Don't call me Shirley!

[jcam61]

Hill isnt the only guy who didnt hustle under Coach Heath.   If the problem is hustling than watch some film of Townes.   Its not easy to watch.

[dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya]

Hill isnt the only guy who didnt hustle under Coach Heath.   If the problem is hustling than watch some film of Townes.   Its not easy to watch.

Don't get me started on Townes.  All the talent in the world and NOTHING to show for it.

[mountainhog]

Ive seen a few games where thomas wasnt doing too much either.  I thought he was inconsistent on more than one occasion.  Alot of folks talk about how great a hustler he is but there was a few times he didnt show up .  Maybe coaching , who knows.  I just hope that changes this year.

[ColumbianHog]

Hill isnt the only guy who didnt hustle under Coach Heath.   If the problem is hustling than watch some film of Townes.   Its not easy to watch.

I don't see why you guys think Hill didn't hustle.  I remember more than a few times when he was tipping passes and diving after loose balls!  You don't often see seven footers diving on the floor for a loose ball.  This guy hustles!

[ColumbianHog]

Ive seen a few games where thomas wasnt doing too much either.  I thought he was inconsistent on more than one occasion.  Alot of folks talk about how great a hustler he is but there was a few times he didnt show up .  Maybe coaching , who knows.  I just hope that changes this year.

Doesn't Thomas have a child?  I imagine there are times when he has a lot on his mind other than basketball.  It can't be easy.

[chrisbracadabra]

If my memory serves me correctly, didn't Steven have like 20 rebounds @ Bama last year?

[Bomis Hawg]

16 boards against Alabama.
I think he had one double-double.  Forget against who.

[PeytonManningSUCKS]

Stephen Hill is a wasted scholarship

that's silly.  If he never realizes his potential he is already a great defensive center.  Hopefully he will get more agressive on O.  He certainly has his faults, but I'm glad he's on our team and he is our best NBA prospect.   

[ColumbianHog]

16 boards against Alabama.
I think he had one double-double.  Forget against who.

Hill didn't get any double doubles this season.

He had 15, 16, and 13 points against Georgia, LSU, and Kentucky, respectively.  He also had 3 assists in that LSU game.

He had 16 boards against Alabama and 10 against South Carolina.  Those were season highs.

Other notable highs for individual Hogs:
Gary Ervin: 18 pts, 6 rebs, and 11 assists against Alabama.
Stefan Welsh: 13 pts, 2 rebs, and 4 assists against Kentucky.
Charles Thomas: 4 double doubles including an 18-18 game against Mississippi State.
Darian Townes: Double-double against Florida (18-10).
Sonny Weems: 2 Double-doubles against Stephen F Austin and Marist.  Also had 24 against SFA.
Mike Washington: Career game of 17-7 against Florida in SEC CG.
P. Beverley: 29 pts against SEMO in first collegiate game.  Against Vandy had 20 pts, 10 reb, and 4 assists.

The other guys didn't have any notable stats.

[HogLove]

Wow...I'm glad you got so threatened by that last post that you had to go on Hogwired to get some stats.  That's great and all but did you ever consider why Greg Oden is probably going as the first pick in the draft this year instead of Durant?!  The reason is because GMs believe Oden will do better in the pro's.  I say that to say this...Steven is the only one on the pro radar right now.  Period. End of discussion.  That's something you can't google...you just have to be in the basketball loop.  So, you can spend ALLLLL of your time on here bashing Steven Hill...but at the end of the day...he's the most likely to go pro next year.  No and's, if's but's about it.  Have your opinion all day long...but it means absolutely nothing to the scouts or to the players.

[dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya]

Wow...I'm glad you got so threatened by that last post that you had to go on Hogwired to get some stats.  That's great and all but did you ever consider why Greg Oden is probably going as the first pick in the draft this year instead of Durant?!  The reason is because GMs believe Oden will do better in the pro's.  I say that to say this...Steven is the only one on the pro radar right now.  Period. End of discussion.  That's something you can't google...you just have to be in the basketball loop.  So, you can spend ALLLLL of your time on here bashing Steven Hill...but at the end of the day...he's the most likely to go pro next year.  No and's, if's but's about it.  Have your opinion all day long...but it means absolutely nothing to the scouts or to the players.

Ok, but how does that help the Hogs this year?  He has been an underachiever so far, ESPECIALLY if he is NBA material.  Maybe he'll be able to make a lay-up and rebound in the NBA, but for a 7 footer to not be able to do that well in college is disappointing.

I would rather have a stud while he is at Arkansas than a future great NBA player.

[ColumbianHog]

Wow...I'm glad you got so threatened by that last post that you had to go on Hogwired to get some stats.  That's great and all but did you ever consider why Greg Oden is probably going as the first pick in the draft this year instead of Durant?!  The reason is because GMs believe Oden will do better in the pro's.  I say that to say this...Steven is the only one on the pro radar right now.  Period. End of discussion.  That's something you can't google...you just have to be in the basketball loop.  So, you can spend ALLLLL of your time on here bashing Steven Hill...but at the end of the day...he's the most likely to go pro next year.  No and's, if's but's about it.  Have your opinion all day long...but it means absolutely nothing to the scouts or to the players.

Whoa!  I didn't feel threatened at all.  I simply was curious as to which game Hill got a double-double in and went on Hogwired to see.  I saw he didn't have any but other players did so I posted Hill's best numbers and the other players notable numbers.  And if you'd take the time to read my other posts you'd see that I've been a really big proponent of Steven Hill and have been sticking up for him and his abilities.  I'm on your team, HogLove.  Don't beat me down.

[slopinhogs]

I THINK THIS STAFF WILL CALL A DIAMOND A DIAMOND AND A SPADE A SPADE. :razorback: :razorback: :razorback:

[justonefan]

If Steven Hill's play has been inconsistent, it's been no more so than the rest of the team.  I think that was there trademark last year.  I actually think Steven was the most improved player on the team last year, JMO.  The disappointment to me has been Townes.  He's got the body and the ability to do great things, but his effort has been consistent - consistently lacking.

[HogLove]

My apologies ColumbianHog!  I wasn't looking at your name...I figured it was the notshavin kid again.  All of this just frustrates me.  Being close to the team and knowing what goes on behind the scenes and then seeing forums like this.  If people were very well educated in the basketball department they could understand why certain things happen on the court.  They would understand why, for instance, Hill spends his time screening and blocking out.  You would see the pattern of the plays and see that he was probably one of the only players who actually sticks to the plays and does his job.  Now, maybe people are upset with what the coaches wanted him to do and what fan wanted him to do.  How many touches did he get in a game?  How many times did he screen to allow another to score?  Those are the things he was told to do.  There were only a few plays actually centered around him scoring.  When you go back and watch film...look for the things he was supposed to be doing and don't bash him for not doing the things he wasn't supposed to do.   

[ColumbianHog]

My apologies ColumbianHog!  I wasn't looking at your name...I figured it was the notshavin kid again.  All of this just frustrates me.  Being close to the team and knowing what goes on behind the scenes and then seeing forums like this.  If people were very well educated in the basketball department they could understand why certain things happen on the court.  They would understand why, for instance, Hill spends his time screening and blocking out.  You would see the pattern of the plays and see that he was probably one of the only players who actually sticks to the plays and does his job.  Now, maybe people are upset with what the coaches wanted him to do and what fan wanted him to do.  How many touches did he get in a game?  How many times did he screen to allow another to score?  Those are the things he was told to do.  There were only a few plays actually centered around him scoring.  When you go back and watch film...look for the things he was supposed to be doing and don't bash him for not doing the things he wasn't supposed to do.  

No problem.

Although it was nice seeing Hill get the ball MORE this year than last year (through alley-oops and stuff) it would have been nice to see the guys pound it in even more often.  Even if he doesn't score he can draw a foul...and even if he can't make a FT he gets the other team into foul trouble. 

[OzarkHighs]

Hill will be a first rounder in next years draft.

[ColumbianHog]

Hill will be a first rounder in next years draft.

Yep.  I agree.  No way does a 7'0" SEC Defensive POY not get drafted in the first round.

[dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya]

Hill will be a first rounder in next years draft.

Again, so what?  What the hell has he done here?

[mountainhog]

Apparently, what he was told to do!

[dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya]

Apparently, what he was told to do!

Get out-rebounded by shorter players, get muscled out of the paint most of the time, and miss wide open lay-ups?

[mountainhog]

I get your point .

In my opinion, he just isnt as awful as you think he is.  The ability is there , maybe he will get better with some diffrent coaching.  Blocking shots puts you out of position for rebounding.  I have no answer for the missed layups though.

[moses_007]

Stephen Hill is a wasted scholarship

I wouldn't call it a waste...he's the best shot blocker in the SEC... and he's a very valuable member of OUR team.

[jcam61]

Apparently Pelphrey wants more from Hill too offensively.  I hope hes not disappointed when he doesnt get much production.     

Im sorry but you cant just throw the guy the ball and expect him to score.     He's not that type of player.   I'm just trying to be realistic.    Hill is not an offensive threat!!

[PeytonManningSUCKS]

Apparently, what he was told to do!

Get out-rebounded by shorter players, get muscled out of the paint most of the time, and miss wide open lay-ups?

your point is that he hasn't lived up to his potential.  Our point is even so, his physical prowess in the paint is formidable.  You're right with his tools he could be much better, but he is definately a great addition to our team at his current level.  He does alot of different things and has alot of hustle.  And anybody who likes to drive the lane is gonna think twice.

[ColumbianHog]

Apparently, what he was told to do!

Get out-rebounded by shorter players, get muscled out of the paint most of the time, and miss wide open lay-ups?

your point is that he hasn't lived up to his potential.  Our point is even so, his physical prowess in the paint is formidable.  You're right with his tools he could be much better, but he is definately a great addition to our team at his current level.  He does alot of different things and has alot of hustle.  And anybody who likes to drive the lane is gonna think twice.

Exactly.  He doesn't have to be an offensive threat because of what he does on the defensive end.  If he blocks a shot that generally leads to a wasted possession by the other team...that's invaluable.  No one else on our team brings the same defensive presence as Steven Hill.

Now, if he can just improve his offense a little...