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Author Topic: Firing Heath = Crazy Talk  (Read 3119 times)

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jaredndockery

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Re: Firing Heath = Crazy Talk
« Reply #50 on: March 16, 2007, 11:16:20 am »

you cannot fire your black basketball coach after back-to-back-to-back winning seasons.
Isn't it fundamentally racist to say that Heath should keep his job because he is black?

How would you like to be Heath and know (assuming this is true) that the ONLY reason you kept your job was because of your skin color.

WWMLKS? (What Would Martin Luther King Say)

The decision of whether to keep a basketball coach should boil down to "Do we continue to believe that this coach will take Arkansas to the Final Four?" If that answer is no, then no amount of winning seasons are acceptable. A 20-win season is no big deal. 104 schools had 20 wins this year. Last year there were fewer, but still 78. Are our aspirations and expectations that we have a coach that can make sure we are in the top 70!?!?!?!

Hell no.

I don't care if he is purple if he wins.

The jury is still out on Heath. We know he lacks some skills but he has heart, integrity and can recruit. If he can improve in the other categories will continuing to build success, sure he can stay. But if he peaks at one-and-out he has to go.
It would be fundamentally racist to say that the only reason that Heath should keep his job is that he is black. Fortunately, I didn't say that.

What I'm saying is the University of Arkansas cannot afford to give the appearance of a double standard based upon race. The UA, as a public institution which receives federal funds, is subject to Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which specifically forbids employers to practice discrimination based upon race. To fire Heath after back-to-back-to-back winning seasons, after not having fired Nutt after back-to-back losing seasons, gives the appearance of a double standard discriminatory against black people, and leaves the University of Arkansas very vulnerable to possible legal action.

Even if Heath were not to take legal action against the University, I still believe a public relations nightmare would ensue. Coach Richardson has already talked about this very issue before Congress itself. Do you think we can fire Heath now, and not have it reverberate across the country? Do you think such publicity (i.e. "the UA is racist") would in any way be beneficial to the basketball program, or anything else?

From your questions it is obvious that I was not as clear as I could have been about my assessment of Stan Heath. I do not think he should remain coach just because he is black. I do believe he has several qualities which earn him the right to remain coach, however. He conducts himself with dignity and integrity and (I believe) is a good role model for the young men who are entrusted to him. (On an ultimate spiritual level, this is the most important thing of all.) But that is not all. He has demonstrated a knack for recruiting. And he has shown slow but steady improvement in figuring out how to win games. (We would do well to remember that in coaching terms Heath is still just a baby; he's five years younger than Billy Gillispie, whom everyone seems to be so excited about.)

I do agree with you that the jury is still out on Stan Heath. But I believe that Heath has earned every right to be back at the UA next year, no matter what happens tonight against Southern California.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2007, 11:25:34 am by jaredndockery »
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31to6

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Re: Firing Heath = Crazy Talk
« Reply #51 on: March 16, 2007, 11:30:11 am »

you cannot fire your black basketball coach after back-to-back-to-back winning seasons.
Isn't it fundamentally racist to say that Heath should keep his job because he is black?

How would you like to be Heath and know (assuming this is true) that the ONLY reason you kept your job was because of your skin color.

WWMLKS? (What Would Martin Luther King Say)

The decision of whether to keep a basketball coach should boil down to "Do we continue to believe that this coach will take Arkansas to the Final Four?" If that answer is no, then no amount of winning seasons are acceptable. A 20-win season is no big deal. 104 schools had 20 wins this year. Last year there were fewer, but still 78. Are our aspirations and expectations that we have a coach that can make sure we are in the top 70!?!?!?!

Hell no.

I don't care if he is purple if he wins.

The jury is still out on Heath. We know he lacks some skills but he has heart, integrity and can recruit. If he can improve in the other categories will continuing to build success, sure he can stay. But if he peaks at one-and-out he has to go.
It would be fundamentally racist to say that the only reason that Heath should keep his job is that he is black. Fortunately, I didn't say that.

What I'm saying is the University of Arkansas, as a public institution which receives federal funds, is not allowed to discriminate on the basis of race. (Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act specifically forbids employers to practice discrimination based upon race.) To fire Heath after back-to-back-to-back winning seasons, after not having fired Nutt after back-to-back losing seasons, gives the appearance of a double standard discriminatory against black people, and leaves the University of Arkansas very vulnerable to possible legal action.

Even if Heath were not to take legal action against the University, I still believe a public relations nightmare would ensue. Coach Richardson has already talked about this very issue before Congress itself. Do you think we can fire Heath now, and not have it reverberate across the country? Do you think such publicity (i.e. "the UA is racist") would in any way be beneficial to the basketball program, or anything else?

From your questions it is obvious that I was not as clear as I could have been about my assessment of Stan Heath. I do not think he should remain coach just because he is black. I do believe he has several qualities which earn him the right to remain coach, however. He conducts himself with dignity and integrity and (I believe) is a good role model for the young men who are entrusted to him. (On an ultimate spiritual level, this is the most important thing of all.) But that is not all. He has demonstrated a knack for recruiting. And he has shown slow but steady improvement in figuring out how to win games. (We would do well to remember that in coaching terms Heath is still just a baby; he's five years younger than Billy Gillispie, whom everyone seems to be so excited about.)

I do agree with you that the jury is still out on Stan Heath. But I believe that Heath has earned every right to be back at the UA next year, no matter what happens tonight against Southern California.
You make good points. Let's pick this up after the dance!!! :)

Heath or not, I am too amped at the opportunity to beat USC to care to be negative.

Go Heath. Go Hogs.
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jaredndockery

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Re: Firing Heath = Crazy Talk
« Reply #52 on: March 16, 2007, 11:39:59 am »

Agreed, wdremington. Go Hogs!
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HogSophist

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Re: Firing Heath = Crazy Talk
« Reply #53 on: March 16, 2007, 11:43:17 am »

av
I think your points are valid, but you didn't talk about the thing that matters most. Money. Bud Walton hasn't been full in years, while Razorback Stadium has been setting season ticket records for the past couple of years. I don't like Nutt, but people do come to see his players. 10,000 fans at BWA and 69,000 at RRS, those are the numbers that grab the PTB's attention.
Few points on that: 1) even at capacity, basketball would never approach football numbers, so comparing raw numbers to each other is a bit disingenuous, 2) basketball is a lot less costly to run in terms of players, facilities, etc, so it doesn't take as much to turn the same profit, and 3) there are a lot more basketball games than football games in a season, so you can have less at each game individually.

Which means you have the potential to earn a lot in basketball, if fans come to all the games.  When there are only 10k butts in a 19k arena, something is seriously wrong.  The univ. took one right in the pocketbook again this year.  Lets hope they pull that pocketbook out for BG.

averaged 16,000 this last year.
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IBreal

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Re: Firing Heath = Crazy Talk
« Reply #54 on: March 16, 2007, 11:53:20 am »

I have a dream.  The dream is that Heath deserves better treatment by a program, so he is leaving for a better environment and better pay.  Leaving the little piglets searching for a head coach again, Heath lands a job as a head coach of basketball and football program somewhere in the SEC.  Nolan was asked to come back to Arkansas but instead turned it down for a job at tulsa.  Arkansas went on a 10 year losing streak.
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weresoclose

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Re: Firing Heath = Crazy Talk
« Reply #55 on: March 16, 2007, 12:17:01 pm »

av
I think your points are valid, but you didn't talk about the thing that matters most. Money. Bud Walton hasn't been full in years, while Razorback Stadium has been setting season ticket records for the past couple of years. I don't like Nutt, but people do come to see his players. 10,000 fans at BWA and 69,000 at RRS, those are the numbers that grab the PTB's attention.
Few points on that: 1) even at capacity, basketball would never approach football numbers, so comparing raw numbers to each other is a bit disingenuous, 2) basketball is a lot less costly to run in terms of players, facilities, etc, so it doesn't take as much to turn the same profit, and 3) there are a lot more basketball games than football games in a season, so you can have less at each game individually.

Which means you have the potential to earn a lot in basketball, if fans come to all the games.  When there are only 10k butts in a 19k arena, something is seriously wrong.  The univ. took one right in the pocketbook again this year.  Lets hope they pull that pocketbook out for BG.

averaged 16,000 this last year.

Counting the players, coaches, concession workers, and 2000 imaginary fans, you're probably right. 

Surely the numbers weren't fudged!  Nooooooooooooo  ???
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hawaiianhogster

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Re: Firing Heath = Crazy Talk
« Reply #56 on: March 16, 2007, 12:22:50 pm »

I will say this again. It would be a "BIG MISTAKE" to fire or force Stan Heath out this year. You are messing with disaster. People will come out of the wood work and stand up against you. I dare you to fire Stan Heath. No. I double dare you. I would love to see you squirm in your own filth.
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HawgWyld

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Re: Firing Heath = Crazy Talk
« Reply #57 on: March 16, 2007, 12:34:02 pm »

Nutt with all of his Nuttiness averaged better than 95% (non and conference) of sell-out/attendance in '06; Heath averaged about 70% (all games non and conference) of sellout/attendance and Heath's attendance is trending negative.
I'm amazed that some people around here don't see half-full arenas as something that should worry the Athletic Department. I'd be willing to bet that concerns the folks in the Athletic Department as you've got to keep attendance up at football and basketball games to pay for those "Title IX" sports that can't support themselves. If revenue from football and basketball games takes a nosedive, the Athletic Department will have severe budgeting problems as those two sports are *the* revenue producers at the UA -- revenue from women's volleyball and track (both good programs) aren't going to make up what's lost if basketball attendance is down severely.

Having said that, I remain hopeful the basketball team will take a couple of games in the SEC tournament and attendance will pick up accordingly. I could be wrong, but it occurs to me that winning percentages at the UA don't matter one whit -- it's attendance that determines whether a football or men's basketball coach keeps his job.

What's truly odd is that Razorbacks football fans seem to be suffering from a severe case of "Cubs syndrome." It doesn't matter if the Cubs suck or not as fans will show up to the park. Why? Because it's primarily a social outing with a bit of baseball going on in the background. The same thing is happening at UA and I'm almost surprised they haven't planted ivy on the walls of the place yet...
« Last Edit: March 16, 2007, 12:37:30 pm by HawgWyld »
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weresoclose

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Re: Firing Heath = Crazy Talk
« Reply #58 on: March 16, 2007, 12:36:07 pm »

hawiian, you've been living on the island too long.  it's clouded your perception of the who-gives-a-f*** mentality the national media has about your beloved Heath.  NO ONE is coming out in support of him, and neither will the NAACP, the only group who would really matter.

Heath is a BAD coach.  Doesn't matter if he's such a minority he's on the endangered species list.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2007, 12:40:55 pm by weresoclose »
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weresoclose

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Re: Firing Heath = Crazy Talk
« Reply #59 on: March 16, 2007, 12:40:28 pm »

Nutt with all of his Nuttiness averaged better than 95% (non and conference) of sell-out/attendance in '06; Heath averaged about 70% (all games non and conference) of sellout/attendance and Heath's attendance is trending negative.
I'm amazed that some people around here don't see half-full arenas as something that should worry the Athletic Department. I'd be willing to bet that concerns the folks in the Athletic Department as you've got to keep attendance up at football and basketball games to pay for those "Title IX" sports that can't support themselves. If revenue from football and basketball games takes a nosedive, the Athletic Department will have severe budgeting problems as those two sports are *the* revenue producers at the UA -- revenue from women's volleyball and track (both good programs) aren't going to make up what's lost if basketball attendance is down severely.

Having said that, I remain hopeful the basketball team will take a couple of games in the SEC tournament and attendance will pick up accordingly. I could be wrong, but it occurs to me that winning percentages at the UA don't matter one whit -- it's attendance that determines whether a football or men's basketball coach keeps his job.

Well, according to 311Hog, the big "accountant" recent accounting grad at the UofA, the athletic program will maximize profits if and only if THEY DON'T SELL OUT.  I'll find the link in a minute.  It's hilarious, and I got smited like 20 times for arguing agains his asinine "theoretical" position.

Talk about smiting, one week ago I had 60 smites.  It's pushing 220 now, because people don't want to hear about the mediocrity of our head bb coach.  They're fighting a Proxie War against Nutt. 
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HawgWyld

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Re: Firing Heath = Crazy Talk
« Reply #60 on: March 16, 2007, 12:45:07 pm »

Well, according to 311Hog, the big "accountant" recent accounting grad at the UofA, the athletic program will maximize profits if and only if THEY DON'T SELL OUT.  I'll find the link in a minute.  It's hilarious, and I got smited like 20 times for arguing agains his asinine "theoretical" position.

Talk about smiting, one week ago I had 60 smites.  It's pushing 220 now, because people don't want to hear about the mediocrity of our head bb coach.  They're fighting a Proxie War against Nutt. 
Well, I'm not going to swat at 311Hog -- I just happen to think he's off on this one as I'm certain people are worried about attendance. And, hell, I actually like Stan Heath and do agree there seems to be a double standard of sorts in the "fire Heath" camp -- Nutt gets to hang around, but let's get rid of Heath.

The only way in the world that makes sense is by looking at attendance records. That goofy Nutt plays to packed houses, whereas Heath does not. Therefore, Nutt is safe as long as people show up for games, but Heath needs to be worried. Still, a good showing in the NCAA tournament ought to turn that around, and that's honestly what I'd love to see happen.
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