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My main conern about staying with Stan Heath

Started by snag, March 13, 2007, 12:28:09 pm

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snag

is the lack of recruiting. In the last three years, he has had one good year of recruiting and two poor years of recruiting. Its no stretch to label the McCurdy/McGowan signings as disastrous. The guys coming in next year may be OK, but I don't think anybody believes Rakestraw or Bush will be big time difference makers. So we are banking on Heath signing a tremendous class in 2008. I've heard Rick say that we have some great prospects in the pipeline, but who are these guys? We are going to finish next season and say goodbye to Steven Hill, Darian Townes, and Charles Thomas. Who will be replacing them? Michael Washington and Cyrus McGowan?!? That's it?!? Are you kidding me? Sure, I think Washington might end up being better than Thomas as a 4, but who is going to back him up, and who is going to play the 5? Cyrus McGowan and some freshman who hasn't even appeared on the radar screen yet? I don't see any Top Prospects who are 4's or 5's who appear to be seriously considering Arkansas. This is a major concern. If we do not land 2 or 3 Top Prospects in 2008 this program will be dead in the water for years to come. I'm not confident that Stan is going to do this. That recruiting class is a make or break recruiting class, and I'm afraid it is going to break.

weresoclose

This is EXACTLY why it is absolutely necessary to find a new coach as soon as we're out.  I hope we make a deep run in the NCAAs.  Then it's time to cut him loose.  Heath will be happier up North, anyway.  It's selfish of us to keep him here in Arkansas.  ;)

 

stan the man

Stan probably won't be here after next year even if  he is allowed to stay for next year.  He should have a good year next year and he knows other teams will come a calling  and therefore recruiting won't be very good since he does not plan on staying.  Plus the fact if Beverly and Washington have outstanding years they may be gone as well.  We either need to asssure Stan that he will be here for at least 3 more years or cut him loose now.  Otherwise we will have to totally rebuild again. 

LordStanleysHog

are you serious, recruiting is probably what has kept him here...

Michael Washington was a Top 25 recruit
Steven Hill was a hell of a pick up
Beverly is the recruiting steal of the century, if he played AAU he'd have been a Top 25 kid
Brewer, HS All-American
Famutimi, McDonalds All-American
Townes was heavily recurited and originally signed with Georgetown
Al Jefferson, you cannot leave him out, he basically screwed us by waiting so long to make up his mind
Modica, All SEC
Weems, No. 1 Junior College prospect

I have complete faith that Heath will bring in the players we need, his track record speaks to that

snag

Quote from: LordStanleysHog on March 13, 2007, 12:46:29 pm
are you serious, recruiting is probably what has kept him here...

Michael Washington was a Top 25 recruit
Steven Hill was a hell of a pick up
Beverly is the recruiting steal of the century, if he played AAU he'd have been a Top 25 kid
Brewer, HS All-American
Famutimi, McDonalds All-American
Townes was heavily recurited and originally signed with Georgetown
Al Jefferson, you cannot leave him out, he basically screwed us by waiting so long to make up his mind
Modica, All SEC
Weems, No. 1 Junior College prospect

I have complete faith that Heath will bring in the players we need, his track record speaks to that

As I said, none of the guys you mentioned was recruited in 2005 or 2007. So he has had one good recruiting year (2006) out of the last three years. Isn't it a huge gamble to think he'll have a good one in 2008? Especially since the 2008 recruiting class is not looking too hot right now, particularly regarding big men, our greatest area of need.

RBLtoHOG

I think he has done a good job recruiting...
In any fight, life or football, its the guy who is willing to die who will win that inch. If I'm gonna have any life anymore its because I'm still willing to fight and die for that inch....because, that's what living is!

snag

March 13, 2007, 01:07:08 pm #6 Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 01:10:21 pm by snag
Quote from: RBLtoHOG on March 13, 2007, 12:56:39 pm
I think he has done a good job recruiting...

Let me spell it out for you:

2004 - Hill, Townes, Thomas, Dontell Jefferson - This was a solid signing class. Not spectacular, but solid.
2005 - McCurdy, McGowan - disastrous
2006 - Beverley, Weems, Washington, Welsh - By far his best class. Pretty great group.
2007 - Rakestraw, Bush - Obviously too soon to judge, but looks to be mediocre to say the least. Only elite player in the state signed with OK. St.
2008 - ????????? - Who knows? This is the most important class of the decade. At this point, the prospects don't look spectacular to me, especially regarding big men, for whom we are desperate.

Stan has had ONE great recruiting class. We have one player who is currently considered an elite SEC player. We did not have a single player make the first team, second team, or honorable mention in the SEC. Heath has not done a great job of recruiting. We can do better!

TheNuttlessFrontier


I think it's too early to pass judgement on Sean McCurdy and Cyrus McGowan.  IMHO, you judge a class by its performance as juniors and seniors...not as freshmen and sophmores.  I don't know about Rakestraw but I believe Jenirro Bush may contribute immediately and help shore up a position that is in desperate need.

After next season, P.Beverly and M.Washington are likely to be the two best players on our team.  I have full confidence in Stan Heath as a recruiter.  He works tirelessly and understands the demands of his job.  He won't sit back on his duff waiting for talent to fall in his lap.

coach, my back hurts

Well next yr Heath can go after all the TOP talent he needs.  He can tell them that they have absolutely no one to compete with and soon as they get on campus they are starting.  Well, they would have to compete with the other signees, but you can see where i'm goin.  If he signs 3-4 top 50 type players, they will ALL more than likely see significant playing time. 

On the other hand, Ervin will be leaving next yr and we havent signed a PG in this class except for one that plays Forward in HS.  I think it was a BIG mistake to not go after the kid from ForestCity.  Marcus Britt i believe?  However, i think Welsh can handle that spot with Beverly getting some work as well.

The only thing that could hurt us as some of ya'll have said, is that if Heath is on the "hot-seat" every recruit he goes after will be asked by the other teams if they expect him to be there.  Other than that, i have "some" faith in Heath.  Besides ARK has alot to offer a kid.  Good school, nice area, great gym, some of the best fans in the country.  He can get it done. 

But......if after the season we have any shot at Self or Gills we need to go that route.  The PTB have already missed out on ButchDavis.  They cant let this happen again.

pork-e-pine

Heath is a great recruiter.  That is his strongest point.  There are reasons to get rid of heath but recruiting is not in this list.

Now if you want to talk about talent development, then you would have a point.
Winning is fun,
Losing is not;
But Id rather lose and have a good attitude than win and be like texas.
also...be nice, your mom could be reading this.

zebra

Quote from: snag on March 13, 2007, 01:07:08 pm
Quote from: RBLtoHOG on March 13, 2007, 12:56:39 pm
I think he has done a good job recruiting...

Let me spell it out for you:

2004 - Hill, Townes, Thomas, Dontell Jefferson - This was a solid signing class. Not spectacular, but solid.
2005 - McCurdy, McGowan - disastrous
2006 - Beverley, Weems, Washington, Welsh - By far his best class. Pretty great group.
2007 - Rakestraw, Bush - Obviously too soon to judge, but looks to be mediocre to say the least. Only elite player in the state signed with OK. St.
2008 - ????????? - Who knows? This is the most important class of the decade. At this point, the prospects don't look spectacular to me, especially regarding big men, for whom we are desperate.

Stan has had ONE great recruiting class. We have one player who is currently considered an elite SEC player. We did not have a single player make the first team, second team, or honorable mention in the SEC. Heath has not done a great job of recruiting. We can do better!

Great point!

lightsout


snag

Quote from: pork-e-pine on March 13, 2007, 01:36:04 pm
Heath is a great recruiter.  That is his strongest point.  There are reasons to get rid of heath but recruiting is not in this list.

Now if you want to talk about talent development, then you would have a point.

Actually, I think the opposite. I think Heath is OK, but not good enough at recruiting. However, I think he does a pretty good job at working with the players individually. Not preparing the team to play in an efficient, focused fashion is his greatest failure.

 

weevilhogg

The 07 class can't be all that good.  He has no spots available.

It's tough to project tranfers then lean on those projections for the purposes of giving out scholarships.

If the Hogs can win a game or two this year, that will be that much more recruiting ammo for Stan.  With a big year next year, Kids will be even more excited about coming to Arkansas.

The whole deal will (or should) be determined with next year's season.  Good year --- good things will come of it.   Bad year --- Stan will get the boot and we move on.
Oh my!

snag

Quote from: weevilhogg on March 13, 2007, 06:15:18 pm
The 07 class can't be all that good.  He has no spots available.

It's tough to project tranfers then lean on those projections for the purposes of giving out scholarships.

If the Hogs can win a game or two this year, that will be that much more recruiting ammo for Stan.  With a big year next year, Kids will be even more excited about coming to Arkansas.

The whole deal will (or should) be determined with next year's season.  Good year --- good things will come of it.   Bad year --- Stan will get the boot and we move on.

That makes no sense. By the end of next basketball season, the largest recruiting class in Razorback's history will already be signed.

slopinhogs

we need a couple of centers and one Power forward and really ,really need a point guard, a good point guard or two. i don't think we need to use all seven schollies, becuase we will put ourselves in the same situation 3 years from now. i think we need to be really selevtive on who we take this year.
win lose or tie i'll call the hogs till i die

heathtits

Quote from: LordStanleysHog on March 13, 2007, 12:46:29 pm
are you serious, recruiting is probably what has kept him here...


Al Jefferson, you cannot leave him out, he basically screwed us by waiting so long to make up his mind
Modica, All SEC


I have complete faith that Heath will bring in the players we need, his track record speaks to that
First off, Heath did not sign Modica, Nolan did, hence the reason Heath took away Modica's entire junior season by leaving him on the pine. 2nd, you HAVE to leave Jefferson off, Why, you ask? Oh yeah, because he never played here.

Ronnie Brewer barely counts because anyone who knows anything, knows he was not pumped about coming here. His parents expected it of him, along with the rest of Fayetteville. It's somewhat of a sign when a player gives up on his team for the NBA, or more reaslistically, the coach he signed with after his junior season with all those starters coming back.

Track record? Heath has been able to sign big man after big man who have yet to significantly or consistantly produce. Hill could be there but he is still the same player he was his Freshmen year with a tad more muscle. Townes is no different, he's had the same good moves but lacks discipline from the powers above. Thomas has always played his heart out, and to his credit, has developed a bit of an outside shot. This appears to be part of his own doing, but if Heath played a part in that, props to him.

Now let me get to the point guard issue. Every year of his career Stan continues to emphasize the point guard position. Yet in his 5th season, he has yet to sign or develop a reliable point guard. If you plan to call Ervin that guy, well Heath failed to sign him from the beginning and his production or leadership hasn't exactly been stellar for a transfer junior. Not to mention the fact at the end of every one of Stan's seasons no player, besides Ronnie has had a clear role. Beverly possible this year, but he's a freshman and his 0-5 performance against Florida shows this. Weems still has no true role and could be the most dangerous weopon in the SEC if coached correctly.

Other than that, it's more than obvious these past two years the players have sat down and fully taken over the game-plan. If it wasn't clear as day to you seeing that win streak last year, just look at the near exact replica this season. I predict the same kind of season next year, flopping inconsistantly in the SEC, maybe breaking even and pulling off another amazing 8 seed or higher. I'm ecstatic we made the tourni, but sometimes looking at our record and the way we played in conference, my honest side tells me we may have not deserved it.

And to end my rant, even if we slip by USC, There's no possible way we will be stopping Durant in the second round of the tourni. Hopefully Stan plays Beverly 39 minutes both games and barring a miracle 2 first round wins, has him gassed by game three just like this past weekend.

rude1

Those of you who continue to tout Heath as a "great recruiter", don't understand what great recruiting is. When you aren't signing any players from the top twenty year in and year out, you aren't having "Great Recruiting" classes. Signing guys who are down around 50 in their recruiting class isn't great recruiting. Sure he seems to have gotten lucky when he got Beverly, but he also drew blanks when he reached after Mcgowan and Mccurdy. I want to throw up everytime I hear how great of a recruiter this guy is. Great recruiters don't lose MD All Americans who are in their own state as Heath did with Anderson, and I don't want to hear any excuses on why that happened, he lost him, end of story. When you go back to our glory days, you are going to see guys who's names appear in that top twenty of their recruiting classes. I gave that list before so I won't do it now, but you know who they are.

HawgWyld

Hmmm. Kinda happy to wait on discussing this until after the tournament is over. It'll be easier to cast stones at Heath -- or defend him -- when we see how the team fares. Frankly, I'm hoping to see an Arkansas/Texas match up in the second round...

Method Ham

I don't think Durant had a very good game against last time.  Did he?  If I'm thinking correctly there's no reason to think we can't shut him down (relatively speaking) one more time in the tournament.  Make the other players beat you!
OUR PRIORITIES ARE ALL MIXED UP IN THIS STATE.  WE HOLD OUR ATHLETIC COACHES MORE ACCOUNTABLE THAN OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS.

hog gone it

blasting heath about his recruiting efforts when our fine christian football coach lost 7 of the top 10 in-state recruits makes this thread comical.  heath has gotten more talent here in the last 5 years than nolan did in his last 5.  now i am not saying that they have been great classes, but when nolan exited, the program was/had spiraled to a new low.  i want the hogs to win as much as anybody, but to say that heath is not headed in the right direction is ridiculous.  we were spoiled with nolan's good years, and now we have no patience as we rebuild. 

PiggoBitttys

J. Bush is a top 100 prospect, actually rated around 67th FWIW.

I expect him to be a starter and good player. I don't know about Rakestraw.

Welsh, Beverley, Weems and Washington have all contributed this year positively. Three of those will be here for several years. 4 out of 4 in a recruiting class that all seem to be good players. Beverley is a great player.

McGowan/McCurdy class was not great, but he was still building the program. He has results to show recruits now and hopefully that will help him have more classes like the pretty dang good one we just brought in this year. A great season next year with Beverley and Washington helping lead the way will lure the top recruits next season.

And that Al Jefferson that got away, that won't happen to Stan anymore if he signs a player like that. The NBA's one year removed rule helps us in that respect. Unfortunately for Stan, the rule came a year too late.

stormurr

there a lot of reason well not a lot but I don't think stan is the long term solution, and who knows he might have grown up some and turned around the bend but RECRUITING IS NOT ONE OF HIS DOWN FALLS.

cardinalhawg

March 13, 2007, 11:24:03 pm #23 Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 11:26:16 pm by cardinalhawg
My concern is that we are as good as we will be as long as Heath is the head coach.  I hope that I am wrong, but so far I haven't seen much to make be believe otherwise.

One thing that I hear too often is that his first two years do not count.  Well, Heath could have had the program in better shape even by the second year.  If his first major recruiting class would have turned out great, then the second year the Hogs could have been competing for an NCAA birth instead of having a losing season.  Then the third season wasn't that good either, even though the record was deceptive due to a weak non-conference schedule.

In his defense the 2 year 8 player rule hurt him in his early seasons to rebuild, but it seems that the rebuilding process has taken longer than it should have.  Also, the result have only been decent, but not great.

I would like to see the Hogs play beyond what I expect out of them, but basically they either play below expectations or right at the expectation level.

With all of this being said, I do not believe that he should have been fired up to this point, but the question I ask is, "Will the Hogs ever be any better than they are right now under Stan Heath?"

 

rude1

Quote from: hog gone it on March 13, 2007, 10:16:48 pm
blasting heath about his recruiting efforts when our fine christian football coach lost 7 of the top 10 in-state recruits makes this thread comical.  heath has gotten more talent here in the last 5 years than nolan did in his last 5.  now i am not saying that they have been great classes, but when nolan exited, the program was/had spiraled to a new low.  i want the hogs to win as much as anybody, but to say that heath is not headed in the right direction is ridiculous.  we were spoiled with nolan's good years, and now we have no patience as we rebuild. 
One name that Nolan was bringing in his last year was Igoudala, name one recruit Heath has brought in that was on that caliber?

harmonyhog

If they lose to USC, Stan's head goes back on the chopping block. If he gets to the Sweet Sixteen or deeper he might get a nibble from Michigan, who is unhappy with Tommy Amaker.

Hog Realist

Quote from: snag on March 13, 2007, 12:55:48 pm
Quote from: LordStanleysHog on March 13, 2007, 12:46:29 pm
are you serious, recruiting is probably what has kept him here...

Michael Washington was a Top 25 recruit
Steven Hill was a hell of a pick up
Beverly is the recruiting steal of the century, if he played AAU he'd have been a Top 25 kid
Brewer, HS All-American
Famutimi, McDonalds All-American
Townes was heavily recurited and originally signed with Georgetown
Al Jefferson, you cannot leave him out, he basically screwed us by waiting so long to make up his mind
Modica, All SEC
Weems, No. 1 Junior College prospect

I have complete faith that Heath will bring in the players we need, his track record speaks to that

As I said, none of the guys you mentioned was recruited in 2005 or 2007. So he has had one good recruiting year (2006) out of the last three years. Isn't it a huge gamble to think he'll have a good one in 2008? Especially since the 2008 recruiting class is not looking too hot right now, particularly regarding big men, our greatest area of need.
Michael Washington wasn't between 2005 and 2007? News to me
Same for Sonny Weems and Beverley.  Where do you get your recruiting information exactly if those 3 weren't recruited between 2005 and 2007?

Hog Realist

QuoteOne name that Nolan was bringing in his last year was Igoudala, name one recruit Heath has brought in that was on that caliber?
That caliber?  By that caliber do you mean a 4 star Small forward rated as the #13 Small forward in the nation in 2002?
Washington will be better...He was top 25 player in the nation on Rivals at one point. Yes that is 5 stars at one time which is more than Iguodala ever was. 
Beverley was a 4 star and is already averaging more PPG than Iguodala ever did in college.
Weems was rated higher than him at the position last year. 
Steven Hill was rated higher as a Center than Iguodala
Charles Thomas was rated higher as a Small Forward than Iguodala

So I guess if I was naming higher caliber players than Iguodala I would say 
Patrick Beverley
Michael Washington
Sonny Weems
Charles Thomas
Steven Hill

hawaiianhogster

Quote from: snag on March 13, 2007, 12:28:09 pm
is the lack of recruiting. In the last three years, he has had one good year of recruiting and two poor years of recruiting. Its no stretch to label the McCurdy/McGowan signings as disastrous. The guys coming in next year may be OK, but I don't think anybody believes Rakestraw or Bush will be big time difference makers. So we are banking on Heath signing a tremendous class in 2008. I've heard Rick say that we have some great prospects in the pipeline, but who are these guys? We are going to finish next season and say goodbye to Steven Hill, Darian Townes, and Charles Thomas. Who will be replacing them? Michael Washington and Cyrus McGowan?!? That's it?!? Are you kidding me? Sure, I think Washington might end up being better than Thomas as a 4, but who is going to back him up, and who is going to play the 5? Cyrus McGowan and some freshman who hasn't even appeared on the radar screen yet? I don't see any Top Prospects who are 4's or 5's who appear to be seriously considering Arkansas. This is a major concern. If we do not land 2 or 3 Top Prospects in 2008 this program will be dead in the water for years to come. I'm not confident that Stan is going to do this. That recruiting class is a make or break recruiting class, and I'm afraid it is going to break.

Coach Heath has it under control.

3kgthog

Wasn't Cyprien brought on mainly for his recruiting prowess? It obviously isn't showing yet with Blake Edd....err Rakestraw and Bush. Maybe he'll show his expertise with the '08 class.

hoggystyle78

I hope you're talking about how they play in college compared to how Igoudala did at Arizona, cause if you think any of those guys on that list could carry Igoudala's jock, then my friend you haven't been watching the NBA for the last couple of years, Iggy is a stud, he and J.J. Sullinger woud've formed a great nucleus for Nolan if not for his untimely firing. In time Patrick Beverley could become something special but to say they're better than Igoudala well that's just not right.
Quote from: Hog Realist on March 14, 2007, 01:26:27 am
QuoteOne name that Nolan was bringing in his last year was Igoudala, name one recruit Heath has brought in that was on that caliber?
That caliber?  By that caliber do you mean a 4 star Small forward rated as the #13 Small forward in the nation in 2002?
Washington will be better...He was top 25 player in the nation on Rivals at one point. Yes that is 5 stars at one time which is more than Iguodala ever was. 
Beverley was a 4 star and is already averaging more PPG than Iguodala ever did in college.
Weems was rated higher than him at the position last year. 
Steven Hill was rated higher as a Center than Iguodala
Charles Thomas was rated higher as a Small Forward than Iguodala

So I guess if I was naming higher caliber players than Iguodala I would say 
Patrick Beverley
Michael Washington
Sonny Weems
Charles Thomas
Steven Hill

John Futrall

Quote from: hogapalooza on March 14, 2007, 08:34:42 am
Quote from: opineonswine on March 14, 2007, 08:09:00 am
It will be better for all parties if Stan moves on after the tournament.  We don't have to fire him.  There are plenty of opportunities for a fine person like Stan.  He will do fine. 

This is not the right fit for either Stan or the UofA.  We can part company friends.  NOW is the time to do it.
I think this is what will happen.  It will help if Stan wins a game or 2 in the NCAAT to make him a more viable candidate to other schools.

I see him going to Minn, or perhaps Michigan if Amaker gets fired.

ArkansasI

Why would Minnesota or Michigan hire Stan?

311Hog

LOL some of you guys are so naive or blind in your assessments of the college game its laughable.  You act as if skilled 7 footers are just a "dime a dozen" and that every class has 5 or 6 just waiting to come aboard.


HAVE YOU NOT PAYED ANY ATTENTION WHAT SO EVER ??????!@?!?


We have played teams that dont have a SINGLE PLAYER OVER 6 foot 8 inches !, hell South Illi ring a bell?  Finding a big man and developing a big man is the SINGLE most difficult thing to do in the college game it takes so much more effort to have a good post player then a swing or guard.

McGowan and McCurdy are TO YOUNG TO BE CONSIDERED FAILURES, these are good kids that need time to develop, some of you walk around as if there are 100's of kids in high school already NBA READY, just waiting to waste their time in the college ranks, here is a HINT some times a KID HAS TO RIDE THE PINE UNTIL HE IS AN UPPERCLASSMEN BEFORE HE MAKES A CONTRIBUTION.

Now i realise this concept is difficult for some of you to grasp, but it is how the game has worked for centuries.

Stan took over this program with a massive need for warm bodies, thus there is this massive gap in terms of players and years in the program it is why we dont have any SR players and a massive JR class, he has to get this thing under control where you dont have 1 to 2 schollies one year and 7 to 8 the next you cant just go find yourself an ENTIRE BASKETBALL TEAM in one recruiting year.

311Hog

Quote from: opineonswine on March 14, 2007, 09:11:45 am
Quote from: 311Hog on March 14, 2007, 09:06:26 am

Stan took over this program with a massive need for warm bodies, thus there is this massive gap in terms of players and years in the program it is why we dont have any SR players and a massive JR class, he has to get this thing under control where you dont have 1 to 2 schollies one year and 7 to 8 the next you cant just go find yourself an ENTIRE BASKETBALL TEAM in one recruiting year.

Well that's how it works if you don't get the REAL DEAL.  Here's an example of not taking years to get it done:

After achieving one of the most dramatic single-season turnarounds in NCAA history at Texas-El Paso, Gillispie became Texas A&M’s 19th head basketball coach in March 2004. He inherited a team that had gone 7-21 the previous year, including a dismal 0-16 mark in Big 12 play. The program had not had a winning season in 11 years.

In just two seasons, Gillispie has engineered one of the most amazing turnarounds in college basketball history, leading ESPN’s Steve Lavin, among others, to christen him a “miracle worker.”

In Gillispie’s first season in 2004-05, the Aggies were picked to finish last in the rugged Big 12, but shot out to a perfect 11-0 start and went on to finish 21-10, earning accolades as the country’s most improved team. Gillispie became the only coach in history to lead the most improved team in consecutive seasons.

Even more impressive, A&M went 8-8 in Big 12 play, including victories against No. 9-ranked Texas and No. 25-ranked Texas Tech, to become only the third college team ever to finish .500 in league play after going winless the previous season. The Aggies won two games in the National Invitation Tournament, A&M’s first postseason appearance in 11 years.



To be perfectly honest with you, i like AtM's Head coach i think the guy is great and if we could get him that would be the only scenario in which i would agree to replace Heath, but not for ANYONE else.

Also something i know you dont want to hear, but IMHO Bill's success has ALOT to do with one Acie Law III.  That is the single most clutch player in the college game, and in the college game if you have a dominant point guard that can control a game you my friend have the keys to the castle.

311Hog

Quote from: opineonswine on March 14, 2007, 09:26:20 am
Quote from: 311Hog on March 14, 2007, 09:20:21 am
Quote from: opineonswine on March 14, 2007, 09:11:45 am
Quote from: 311Hog on March 14, 2007, 09:06:26 am

Stan took over this program with a massive need for warm bodies, thus there is this massive gap in terms of players and years in the program it is why we dont have any SR players and a massive JR class, he has to get this thing under control where you dont have 1 to 2 schollies one year and 7 to 8 the next you cant just go find yourself an ENTIRE BASKETBALL TEAM in one recruiting year.

Well that's how it works if you don't get the REAL DEAL.  Here's an example of not taking years to get it done:

After achieving one of the most dramatic single-season turnarounds in NCAA history at Texas-El Paso, Gillispie became Texas A&M’s 19th head basketball coach in March 2004. He inherited a team that had gone 7-21 the previous year, including a dismal 0-16 mark in Big 12 play. The program had not had a winning season in 11 years.

In just two seasons, Gillispie has engineered one of the most amazing turnarounds in college basketball history, leading ESPN’s Steve Lavin, among others, to christen him a “miracle worker.”

In Gillispie’s first season in 2004-05, the Aggies were picked to finish last in the rugged Big 12, but shot out to a perfect 11-0 start and went on to finish 21-10, earning accolades as the country’s most improved team. Gillispie became the only coach in history to lead the most improved team in consecutive seasons.

Even more impressive, A&M went 8-8 in Big 12 play, including victories against No. 9-ranked Texas and No. 25-ranked Texas Tech, to become only the third college team ever to finish .500 in league play after going winless the previous season. The Aggies won two games in the National Invitation Tournament, A&M’s first postseason appearance in 11 years.



To be perfectly honest with you, i like AtM's Head coach i think the guy is great and if we could get him that would be the only scenario in which i would agree to replace Heath, but not for ANYONE else.

Also something i know you dont want to hear, but IMHO Bill's success has ALOT to do with one Acie Law III.  That is the single most clutch player in the college game, and in the college game if you have a dominant point guard that can control a game you my friend have the keys to the castle.

Acie Law was not a household name until BG got ahold of him.  And as you well know, you can't win as much as he has with just one player.  Also, his success at aTm is not a flash in the pan.  He had the same success at UTEP.

I know he did but Acie Law and himself together have gone to another level, they are way way up there at the moment.  One extrodinary point guard can take you places a "good team and good coach" simply cannot. You cant coach "clutch"

heathtits

Best Stan quote ever, "Deanesio Gomez is the most athletic player I've every coached."

Also if you're going to bash on Nolan's last 5 years, well here's a few "fall offs":
Brandon Dean
Pargo
Pat Bradley
Joe Johnson
Derek Hood
Kereem Reid
J.J. Sullinger
Iguodala
Modica

The statement that Nolan quite recruiting his last five years is one of the biggest fallacies in Hog History. He may have lost his passion to coach, but whether it was him or Anderson, they were bringing solid talent in. And it is true his last 2 years fell off, but who exactly knows what was going on behind closed doors.

Stan doesn't seem to pay any attention to one of Nolan's best and simplest of quotes. "You can never have too many shooters." The razorbacks have not had a consistant outside shooter, besides Modica, in Stan's entire tenure.

311Hog

Quote from: heathtits on March 14, 2007, 10:37:46 am
Best Stan quote ever, "Deanesio Gomez is the most athletic player I've every coached."

Also if you're going to bash on Nolan's last 5 years, well here's a few "fall offs":
Brandon Dean
Pargo
Pat Bradley
Joe Johnson
Derek Hood
Kereem Reid
J.J. Sullinger
Iguodala
Modica

The statement that Nolan quite recruiting his last five years is one of the biggest fallacies in Hog History. He may have lost his passion to coach, but whether it was him or Anderson, they were bringing solid talent in. And it is true his last 2 years fell off, but who exactly knows what was going on behind closed doors.

Stan doesn't seem to pay any attention to one of Nolan's best and simplest of quotes. "You can never have too many shooters." The razorbacks have not had a consistant outside shooter, besides Modica, in Stan's entire tenure.

2 things.

1. Every coach uses that line of " insert name here is the most <insert compliment here> player i ever coached"

2. My knock on Nolan's later years in recruiting was that he recruited to many "athletic wing players" that didnt have a position other then they could really dunk the ball and run the floor.  None really had a pure stroke.  It is hard to find two things in college basketball.  1. Is a big man with game and agility. and 2. is a perimeter player that can sink 40+% of his 3's and be able to get his own shot with the dribble and isnt a defensive liability.

Heath hasnt gotten a pure "clutch" outside player not to say he hasnt tried.