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Author Topic: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.  (Read 4234 times)

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jamie72921

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #50 on: March 12, 2007, 01:58:27 am »

Jamie, I hear you.  I'm not trying to align myself with you, just give you some moral support against all these smiters.  I've received more than 80 smites in the past 3 days.  People can't stand the cold hard truth.

In My Opinion, the Nutt thing is the main reason people are blinded in desire for excellence on the BB court.  And I think it's morally tragic.

We should build up from what ES and NR brought us.  Not down.  Why do people think we should start from the ground up? What kind of mentality is that?  So what if ES didn't get a NC.  He laid the groundwork for NR to do it.  And NR laid the groundwork for the next guy to take us even further.  Heath cannot ever, ever do that!!!  What is so hard to comprehend about that?

I am with you 100%. I love the Hogs and have for a long time.

I really do not understand this "rebuild" mentality either other than to say that despite what many on here will publicly say, Nolan was NEVER accepted here. It really bothered a lot of people that he did well here.

I say that because I attended games beginning in Super Sid's senior season right up till today. Even when we were in our power stroke from 87-96 you wouldn't have believed the hateful and ignorant things being said by the fans during the course of the games. It was completely different than what went on under Sutton.

People cussing the substitution of certain players and cussing Nolan. One guy in our section of bleachers litterally for all 17 years would point out why Nolan's system didn't work every time that the other team hit a permimeter shot. It was assenine.

So many people were not understanding of what Nolan actually did here for the program, that they believed that things would magically get better after he left.

The same people who smite you and argue with you about Heath, are the same people that act like Nolan was a blight on our program and took it down. They have invested their precious little egos in Heath's success, as proof that Nolan sucked and anyone can win at ARKANSAS!

That is why, when Heath loses its Nolan's fault five years later because the cupboard was bare. What?! If Heath backs into the tournament, it is an accomplishment of a proportion we have never seen before and Heath needs one more year, because after all, things were so bad when he got here.

I am with you, if this program is going to regain its prominence, it will only happen when we embrace the good parts of our past and build on them. Instead of acting like it was steaming pile of fertilizer and "starting all over."
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weresoclose

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #51 on: March 12, 2007, 02:10:49 am »

Nolan was never fully accepted by "Arkansas" because we lived up to our reputation.  He was black.

I hate to put it like that, but the truth is the truth.  I grew up here.  I'm white.  I experienced it, and I know most other posters did too.  They just don't want to admit it. 

Nolan was a great coach, and I loved it when even the most bigoted people gave it up to him.  It was truly a sight to behold!

Then it all crumbled around us, which I suppose could have been expected, and I take that as a world lesson I will use for the rest of my life. 

But the leftover reality is:  Nolan laid the groundwork for the next coach(es) to accomplish even more than he did.  To think otherwise is to reverse progress. 

In my opinion, some people just don't know how to handle the highest levels of success.  Some fans seem to mimic that thought.  They want to rebuild and rebuild and keep us in a perpetual state of "almost"! 

:puke:
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jamie72921

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #52 on: March 12, 2007, 02:23:24 am »

Your point about the highest levels of success is dead on.

It takes a different approach to maintain that high level. Hiring an up and comer at all when we hired Heath was a huge mystery to me at the time.

They used a committee to force this type of hire on us by the way. No established coach wants to talk to a "committee" in a public forum. And an established coach is what this program needed at the time. That is not a knock on Heath by the way.

When Kentucky was in poor shape following what Sutton did to their program, they went the up and comer route with Pitino. Yes he had already been to the final four with Providence, and coached in the NBA, but he had been a bust in New York. After Pitino left, they didn't even consider an up and comer. They hired the hottest name at the time, Tubby Smith.

I know that there are people that will try and say that our program was in the same shape as Kentucky back then, but that would be innaccurate. KU was on probation and only had walk ons at one point. Not even close.

I can't help but wonder, what might have been had we brought in a proven winner at the time. Would Iguadola and Sullinger have stayed? It is possible and certainly more probable than believing they would stay for a guy with one years hc experience. Ifs and buts.......

We don't have the luxury of waiting to see if a coach grows into this job 5 years down the road now. Next year's coach will be signing 7 new recruits and what has Heath actually provided in terms of results to PROVE that he will deliver what is needed?
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weresoclose

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #53 on: March 12, 2007, 02:32:54 am »

In answer to your question:  Jack Squat.

In five years of Heath, we have nearly squandered ALL of the legacy of Nolan.  We're not holding on to much.  We have a black coach, and that's supposed to be crucial.  I say "PUKE!"  It makes me sad to say it, but I don't give a damn.

If I was to go about my life caring what color people were, I wouldn't get very far.  I hope that the young men coming in to our program don't judge what color their coach is.  Do Coach K's kids?  Do Roy Williams kids?  I don't think so.

But you know what?  The cold hard reality is that people actually believe we have to retain Heath because of his race.  If that's the truth then I give up.  We should retain Heath as an assistant because of his recruiting skills, maybe.  But to retain him as anything else is ludicrous.

We should go after the biggest "name" proven coach we can shell out 2 million dollars to.  If that's Tubby, then hire him.  If it's Gillespie, hire him!!  I don't want to waste my Hogfan life watching this skin-of-your-teeth garbage any more!!!!

This is Hogball dammitt!!!  It's time we started acting like it.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2007, 02:34:30 am by weresoclose »
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Imminent Rueage

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #54 on: March 12, 2007, 02:56:27 am »

Jamie, weresoclose, you guys are making too much sense for this early in the morning.

Wait till the Nolan bashers wake up in the morning and see the points you guys are making.

They'll literally fall off their chairs slammimg you guys.

For what it's worth, +1 to you both.
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weresoclose

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #55 on: March 14, 2007, 12:02:28 am »

Nobody ever commented, dhornjr1.
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RZRBCK in Texas

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #56 on: March 14, 2007, 12:17:09 am »

I'm right there with you on this one, +1.
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Trottsky

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #57 on: March 14, 2007, 12:24:11 am »

Man oh man I hope the Hogs win at least one for the good of the collective Razorback psyche. It'd be a temporary salve, but they can DO it. Think happy thoughts and we can fly, we can fly, Pigs can fly ...
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DirkPiggler

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #58 on: March 14, 2007, 01:48:36 am »


I know that there are people that will try and say that our program was in the same shape as Kentucky back then, but that would be innaccurate. KU was on probation and only had walk ons at one point. Not even close.


There's not much difference between having a team with only walk-ons (which they didn't anyway) and one with 13 scholarship players, at least 10 of which no other high-D1 school wanted.  The gist of your post is dead-on.  You don't have to play loose with the facts to back it up.
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LilRounDevil

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #59 on: March 14, 2007, 08:38:33 am »

Even though I'm not a Heath fan, I am happy for him (I like him even though I would rather have someone I have more confidence in).  And I'm glad the team managed to play themselves into the tournament.
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catdog

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #60 on: March 14, 2007, 10:45:30 am »

a lot of things have changed since Nolan was the coach at Arkansas he came into the sec only having to really beat Kentucky the sec was weak then, now look at the sec, florida,tenn., kentucky, lsu(sometimes lol), miss. state puts a good team together everynow and then i mean freakn Vanderbilt finished 2nd in the east lol. Let stan stay another year ever since that little thing between the miss. st. player and ervin when hill had his back the team has come together and played some great basketball.
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JustWinHog

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #61 on: March 14, 2007, 10:49:37 am »

Same arguement for Nutt. Same thing. You can'tbe on Heath's bandwagon and not Nutt's. If so, you are have an agenda.
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jamie72921

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #62 on: March 14, 2007, 10:56:28 am »


I know that there are people that will try and say that our program was in the same shape as Kentucky back then, but that would be innaccurate. KU was on probation and only had walk ons at one point. Not even close.


There's not much difference between having a team with only walk-ons (which they didn't anyway) and one with 13 scholarship players, at least 10 of which no other high-D1 school wanted.  The gist of your post is dead-on.  You don't have to play loose with the facts to back it up.

I did not mean to say they were all walk ons, but some of their best players were at one time under Pitino.

Remember Pelphrey?

It was the year before their real return to prominence under Pitino, before Mashburn, that nearly their entire starting 5 had been walkons at one point in their KU careers.

It's not completely unheard of, remember Butler last season?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2007, 11:05:39 am by jamie72921 »
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jamie72921

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #63 on: March 14, 2007, 11:02:21 am »

a lot of things have changed since Nolan was the coach at Arkansas he came into the sec only having to really beat Kentucky the sec was weak then, now look at the sec, florida,tenn., kentucky, lsu(sometimes lol), miss. state puts a good team together everynow and then i mean freakn Vanderbilt finished 2nd in the east lol. Let stan stay another year ever since that little thing between the miss. st. player and ervin when hill had his back the team has come together and played some great basketball.

LSU had Shaq. Alabama had Latrell Sprewell, Robert Horry, and James Robinson. Florida wasn't that bad, Kentucky was power strokin', Tennessee had Alan Houston, etc.

Down? I think not.

This year is far and away the weakest I have seen the SEC since we joined it. Far and away.
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ozarkhog

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #64 on: March 14, 2007, 11:03:05 am »

Just remember this little diatribe next year when we are 0-fer on the road in the SEC.

That being said, GO STAN !!! AND GO HOGS!!

I hope I am wrong about next year.
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arkjay19

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #65 on: March 14, 2007, 11:04:09 am »

should we really be that surprised?  that's what Arkansas fans do, they bi***.
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HawgWyld

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #66 on: March 14, 2007, 11:11:15 am »

should we really be that surprised?  that's what Arkansas fans do, they bi***.
That's what fans of any team do when they believe their favored club is underperforming. What you've got to worry about is a day when the Razorbacks consistently turn in average or sub-par conference records and the fans don't gripe about it. Apathy is a lot more dangerous to the future of a program than complaining.
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HairyHog

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #67 on: March 14, 2007, 11:13:34 am »

The Razorbacks spent the last 10 days fighting like hell to position themselves to receive a bid to arguably the greatest event in sports, yet we've got some fans bitching and complaining because that means Heath won't be bought out.

Unreal.

Hey, I guess ya'll went about it the wrong way. Maybe a week ago some of you should have slipped some of the players a few bills to just throw the damn games.

Go back and watch the heart and emotion that this team and their coach have displayed the last week, then if you still feel bummed out that we got a bid go see if you can find a mirror. Gaze into it long and hard so that when you put it down you are completely clear about what an ungrateful a**hole looks like.

Which goes to show you that some people will gripe even if they have their balls in a vise.
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jamie72921

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #68 on: March 14, 2007, 11:15:42 am »


The Razorbacks spent the last 10 days fighting like hell to position themselves to receive a bid to arguably the greatest event in sports, yet we've got some fans bitching and complaining because that means Heath won't be bought out.

Unreal.

Hey, I guess ya'll went about it the wrong way. Maybe a week ago some of you should have slipped some of the players a few bills to just throw the damn games.

Go back and watch the heart and emotion that this team and their coach have displayed the last week, then if you still feel bummed out that we got a bid go see if you can find a mirror. Gaze into it long and hard so that when you put it down you are completely clear about what an ungrateful a**hole looks like.

What do you look like Wilson?

I never did get to see your face on Tool Time.
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WestMemphisHogFan

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #69 on: March 14, 2007, 11:16:21 am »

should we really be that surprised?  that's what Arkansas fans do, they bi***.
That's what fans of any team do when they believe their favored club is underperforming. What you've got to worry about is a day when the Razorbacks consistently turn in average or sub-par conference records and the fans don't gripe about it. Apathy is a lot more dangerous to the future of a program than complaining.

I agree with what you said about apathy...but I have heard every argument in the book about how productive complaining is towards a program...and I just don't buy it. How is complaining productive? To me, it gets very, very tired, and old.  And I just don't see it helping much. I am willing to change my opinion if I see facts that refute me.
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jamie72921

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #70 on: March 14, 2007, 11:39:19 am »

should we really be that surprised?  that's what Arkansas fans do, they bi***.
That's what fans of any team do when they believe their favored club is underperforming. What you've got to worry about is a day when the Razorbacks consistently turn in average or sub-par conference records and the fans don't gripe about it. Apathy is a lot more dangerous to the future of a program than complaining.

I agree with what you said about apathy...but I have heard every argument in the book about how productive complaining is towards a program...and I just don't buy it. How is complaining productive? To me, it gets very, very tired, and old.  And I just don't see it helping much. I am willing to change my opinion if I see facts that refute me.

There is an old story about the productivity and necessity of critics.

It is Called the Emperor's New Clothes.
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SpareRib

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #71 on: March 14, 2007, 11:41:53 am »

I'm with you!

Fan's that expect their team to win at a "higher level" are unreasonable.

They should just accept the mashed potato sandwich and be happy in the knowledge they have something.

I don't think that's the point.  It's OK to want excellence for our program, but we can still be excited in the moment with a shot in the NCAAT and with the effort the guys put forth to get there.
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jamie72921

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #72 on: March 14, 2007, 11:44:57 am »

I'm with you!

Fan's that expect their team to win at a "higher level" are unreasonable.

They should just accept the mashed potato sandwich and be happy in the knowledge they have something.

I don't think that's the point.  It's OK to want excellence for our program, but we can still be excited in the moment with a shot in the NCAAT and with the effort the guys put forth to get there.

I agree with what you say and am backing off my stance of being critical of Heath or the basketball program until our season is over.

Until then, just win baby!
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TheHogFan

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #73 on: March 14, 2007, 11:46:40 am »

The Razorbacks spent the last 10 days fighting like hell to position themselves to receive a bid to arguably the greatest event in sports, yet we've got some fans bitching and complaining because that means Heath won't be bought out.

Unreal.

Hey, I guess ya'll went about it the wrong way. Maybe a week ago some of you should have slipped some of the players a few bills to just throw the damn games.

Go back and watch the heart and emotion that this team and their coach have displayed the last week, then if you still feel bummed out that we got a bid go see if you can find a mirror. Gaze into it long and hard so that when you put it down you are completely clear about what an ungrateful a**hole looks like.
It is official! The first time in history that I completely, 100%, agree with WilsonHog!
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SpareRib

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #74 on: March 14, 2007, 11:58:49 am »

I'm with you!

Fan's that expect their team to win at a "higher level" are unreasonable.

They should just accept the mashed potato sandwich and be happy in the knowledge they have something.

I don't think that's the point.  It's OK to want excellence for our program, but we can still be excited in the moment with a shot in the NCAAT and with the effort the guys put forth to get there.

I agree with what you say and am backing off my stance of being critical of Heath or the basketball program until our season is over.

Until then, just win baby!

I'm in exactly the same place.
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Hog inAustin

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #75 on: March 14, 2007, 12:29:41 pm »

Agreed, Wilson...some will never be happy.  Take it a game at a time and be glad we are talking about playing USC in The Dance instead of how we did in the NIT last night....
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HawgWyld

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #76 on: March 14, 2007, 01:20:53 pm »

should we really be that surprised?  that's what Arkansas fans do, they bi***.
That's what fans of any team do when they believe their favored club is underperforming. What you've got to worry about is a day when the Razorbacks consistently turn in average or sub-par conference records and the fans don't gripe about it. Apathy is a lot more dangerous to the future of a program than complaining.

I agree with what you said about apathy...but I have heard every argument in the book about how productive complaining is towards a program...and I just don't buy it. How is complaining productive? To me, it gets very, very tired, and old.  And I just don't see it helping much. I am willing to change my opinion if I see facts that refute me.
I can certainly appreciate that opinion and, hell, I've always liked Heath. I certainly hope the team does well in the NCAA tournament. We all hoped they'd get there, so let's enjoy the ride while it lasts.
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catdog

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #77 on: March 14, 2007, 01:56:13 pm »

Like shaq ever got involved in a game against Arkansas the tempo was too fast for him lol but i got wat ur saying but i just think basketball in general has changed so much since the years nolan dominated the sec
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Jim Harris

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #78 on: March 14, 2007, 01:57:31 pm »

The Razorbacks spent the last 10 days fighting like hell to position themselves to receive a bid to arguably the greatest event in sports, yet we've got some fans bitching and complaining because that means Heath won't be bought out.

Unreal.

Hey, I guess ya'll went about it the wrong way. Maybe a week ago some of you should have slipped some of the players a few bills to just throw the damn games.

Go back and watch the heart and emotion that this team and their coach have displayed the last week, then if you still feel bummed out that we got a bid go see if you can find a mirror. Gaze into it long and hard so that when you put it down you are completely clear about what an ungrateful a**hole looks like.

I've been trying to say the same thing. You said it better than I could.
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Jim Harris

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Re: Twilight Zone. I Must be in the Twilight Zone.
« Reply #79 on: March 14, 2007, 02:03:18 pm »

Wilson, the only problem with your arguement is, why did they play so crappy throughout the year and lose interest with alot of fans, then flip a switch at the end of the year? You think if Richardson or Sutton were here those guys would have underachieved like they did throughout the regular season? I'm not saying they have to win every game but the sec west was down a little this year, and these guys playing like they showed they could play at the beginning, then at the end, probabally could have gone 10-6 or better if they had the desire.

This team played eerily similar to the Sutton team of 1975-76, if you'd like a history lesson on all things Hogs. Very up and down. Great one night, disappointing the next. Beat Houston by 45 one night, lose by one to them the very next week on the road. First road win, I was there, was at TCU of all places.
The next season, they went 26-2.
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