Reality Check

[gchamblee]

And we damn near beat them in 2007 and 2010, too.  Horseshoes and hand grenades and whatnot.

You are right, Petrino got close, just not as close as CBB did.

[wildhogman]

Once again I see a decent thread cluttered with envy over our former coach. So I must ask the question. Who went 0-2 against SEC teams in 2016 with a hiesman winning QB?  Remember one of those teams was middle pack in the east.
Who was hyped to make the playoffs and had these same people pushing an agenda, then failed to even get to 10 wins? His offense is pretty. a thing of beauty to watch. His defense is like him, offensive. Don't believe me? ask people who have had to deal with him. Ask Kentucky who scored in the 40's on his defense.  But quit acting like he is the second coming of a football god.

[Wildhog]

Also, you don't get beat by 20+ points in a slugfest.

There were 108 points scored in the game. 

We were down 1 point with 10 mins left in the game.  And that's playing against the refs, too.

Not sure how you call that "getting destroyed."

[LRRandy]

And we damn near beat them in 2007 and 2010, too.  Horseshoes and hand grenades and whatnot.

you went whatnot. Lol. +1

[gchamblee]

Once again I see a decent thread cluttered with envy over our former coach. So I must ask the question. Who went 0-2 against SEC teams in 2016 with a hiesman winning QB?  Remember one of those teams was middle pack in the east.
Who was hyped to make the playoffs and had these same people pushing an agenda, then failed to even get to 10 wins? His offense is pretty. a thing of beauty to watch. His defense is like him, offensive. Don't believe me? ask people who have had to deal with him. Ask Kentucky who scored in the 40's on his defense.  But quit acting like he is the second coming of a football god.

In all fairness, his team last year didn't collapse because of him. His players just quit on the season I think. The man is an offensive guru, but has struggled with beating the great teams his entire career. But, his collapse last year was not on him, his players just didn't even give him an effort at the end. What he did to Florida State was a thing of beauty.

[gchamblee]

There were 108 points scored in the game. 

We were down 1 point with 10 mins left in the game.  And that's playing against the refs, too.

Not sure how you call that "getting destroyed."

And still lost by 22 points. Not sure how you don't.

[Wildhog]

And still lost by 22 points. Not sure how you don't.

Because I have eyes.

Either way, that was a great year.  I'd love for CBB to duplicate it.

[wildhogman]

In all fairness, his team last year didn't collapse because of him. His players just quit on the season I think. The man is an offensive guru, but has struggled with beating the great teams his entire career. But, his collapse last year was not on him, his players just didn't even give him an effort at the end. What he did to Florida State was a thing of beauty.

Played quit on him?? Hmmm I have heard that somewhere around here.

[phadedhawg]

In all fairness, his team last year didn't collapse because of him. His players just quit on the season I think. The man is an offensive guru, but has struggled with beating the great teams his entire career. But, his collapse last year was not on him, his players just didn't even give him an effort at the end. What he did to Florida State was a thing of beauty.

Most people wouldn't give the HC a pass for a team that quits...

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

Once again I see a decent thread cluttered with envy over our former coach. So I must ask the question. Who went 0-2 against SEC teams in 2016 with a hiesman winning QB?  Remember one of those teams was middle pack in the east.
Who was hyped to make the playoffs and had these same people pushing an agenda, then failed to even get to 10 wins? His offense is pretty. a thing of beauty to watch. His defense is like him, offensive. Don't believe me? ask people who have had to deal with him. Ask Kentucky who scored in the 40's on his defense.  But quit acting like he is the second coming of a football god.

Will be interesting to see them this year.  Grantham left for MSU and BP hires MSU's DC who got lit up this year and only has 1 year of DC experience, that horrible year at MSU. 

[gchamblee]

Most people wouldn't give the HC a pass for a team that quits...

Most people use a different standard when evaluating a coach, depending on whether they like him or not.

[jdlittle]

Powers that be , like Coach B,  that is all that matters.   Nice man and 7 and 5 seems ok.   I have not seen anyone very upset.   I am sure not mad.   cause I know we aint making no changes .  always the same.  have quit razorback club  and do not participate.    lots of money in nw Arkansas, and that is all that counts.   

[mhsbc59]

Reading this board reminds me that just because you are a man physically doesn't make you one mentally.  So many in here have there minds made and will not change them even if proven wrong just because it would meen admitting they were wrong.

[Hollywood_HOGan45]

Hey I was just as proud of that top 5 ranking as you were, but we were not a top 5 team. We got destroyed by the great teams we played. We were so no  top 5 team, but at least we got the ranking. Me, personally, I would love to actually be a top 5 team that nobody could destroy.

Woooooooooow. Smh.

[Hollywood_HOGan45]

Because I have eyes.

Either way, that was a great year.  I'd love for CBB to duplicate it.

I would love for this season to be 11-2 and a "fake" top 5 ranking.

[WilsonHog]

My hope is to be proven completely wrong, but I believe Bret has taken us about as far as he can in terms of on-the-field results.

[daBoar]

My hope is to be proven completely wrong, but I believe Bret has taken us about as far as he can in terms of on-the-field results.

Makes me wonder, does it take a $4mm guy just to get mediocre results in the SEC West? 

[ricepig]

Makes me wonder, does it take a $4mm guy just to get mediocre results in the SEC West? 

Salary pay is irrelevant in this discussion, $4m is minimum pay in the SEC these days.

[Gonzo]

Hey I was just as proud of that top 5 ranking as you were, but we were not a top 5 team. We got destroyed by the great teams we played. We were so no  top 5 team, but at least we got the ranking. Me, personally, I would love to actually be a top 5 team that nobody could destroy.

Yes, we all know for you all things CBB are wonderful and all things CBP are heinous, and we've all heard you and others throw out this tired "but, but, but.....Bama and LSU......" red herring, and yes, we all know the Hogs lost those games decisively. But be honest with your argument. Outside of playing each other that season, only one team played either team closer than the Hogs. Yes, the Hogs were a fairly distant 3rd in the division, but the rest of the country was a distant 3rd anything as well. The Hogs were a legit top 5 team.



Go Hogs!

[hobhog]

John Brummett has a lot of fans on here.....

[Hollywood_HOGan45]

My hope is to be proven completely wrong, but I believe Bret has taken us about as far as he can in terms of on-the-field results.

I really hope you are wrong and the best days are still ahead of us.

A big key in making a jump from 7 wins is finally overcoming the aTm hex.
Also Paul Rhoads' defense needs to NOT SUCK!

[The_Iceman]

What teams in the SEC West should we beat 50% of the time or more?

[daBoar]

Salary pay is irrelevant in this discussion, $4m is minimum pay in the SEC these days.

My point is that CBB could be doing a very good job; and all that returns to the Hogs is "mediocrity" in the SEC West. 

[WilsonHog]

My point is that CBB could be doing a very good job; and all that returns to the Hogs is "mediocrity" in the SEC West.

Lost in your point, though, is the reality of college football coaches' salaries. Now, it may very well be that the limitations of our program mean that we are going to get lesser results for our $4 to $5 million per year than what other fan bases get for the same amount of money. Is what it is.

[luke hawg]

2014 defense and 2015 offense at the same time with a good draw from SEC east.

[gchamblee]

2014 defense and 2015 offense at the same time with a good draw from SEC east.

Would have been in the CFP

[gchamblee]

What teams in the SEC West should we beat 50% of the time or more?

All of them in my opinion.

[gchamblee]

I really hope you are wrong and the best days are still ahead of us.

A big key in making a jump from 7 wins is finally overcoming the aTm hex.
Also Paul Rhoads' defense needs to NOT SUCK!

This ^

[PorkSoda]

Makes me wonder, does it take a $4mm guy just to get mediocre results in the SEC West? 

How much is Ole Miss paying Freeze per NCAA violation?

I think we are doing just fine.

[Pig in the Pokey]

You have a large sample size of "little hype" to work with when formulating that theory.

LOL!! well, thanks for ruining my theory lol.

[Pig in the Pokey]

So once you decide he's not the man for the job that viewpoint will be rational, but the people who realized the same thing earlier will still be irrational.  They don't get to be rational until you decide it's rational.  Makes perfect sense in a totally egocentric way.

exactly. and instead of credit for arriving at the correct conclusion faster, we are said to have 'not given the man a chance".... MAN, I WAS there on that cold night when the streak was broken. 18 straight losses and bitter cold, howling winds, but I WAS THERE> and many other "darksiders' were, too. giving the man a chance.

Im not 100% darksider now. I actually hope the man has a great next 2 years and this is a moot discussion.

But, like it or not, the writing is on the wall. Already.

[Pig in the Pokey]

And still lost by 22 points. Not sure how you don't.

dude. c'mon. JUST THE  scoop n score , that ridiculous fumble call at the goal line were enough to swing that game. That game was 100% a FIX. Even the instant replay ho'd us that game.  just stop.

[moto625]

As long as we are in the West and continue to finish in the bottom of the  recruiting rankings we should be happy with just going to a bowl game! WPS

[LZH]

What teams in the SEC West should we beat 50% of the time or more?

Ole Miss, MSU, A&M, and probably Auburn.

[Al Boarland]

Ole Miss, MSU, A&M, and probably Auburn.

How do you come to this conclusion?

[The_Iceman]

How do you come to this conclusion?

I can maybe agree with the Mississippi schools. A&M and Auburn have way stronger programs in terms of fan support, facilities, recruiting base, and program prestige.

[Al Boarland]

I can maybe agree with the Mississippi schools. A&M and Auburn have way stronger programs in terms of fan support, facilities, recruiting base, and program prestige.

I agree.

[lefty08]

What fact can you possibly come up with to support this statement?  Mizzou had a roster full of green receivers that didn't project as high as our DBs!  You are allowing your man crush on BB to make you look really silly here!  If you had said D scheme, I'd respect your opinion and even then, scheme is on the ENTIRE coaching staff.  There are ZERO excuses for what we've seen from BB and his staffs and you really shouldn't attempt to have intellectual debates based on your love for a man crush coach!

Missouri had the top offense in the entire conference going into that game

[ricepig]

Missouri had the top offense in the entire conference going into that game

Impossible, they had green receivers.

[lefty08]

Impossible, they had green receivers.

Sometimes facts don't fit the agenda. Also, defense didn't lose that game. Now I'm on thin ice, I realize

[ricepig]

Sometimes facts don't fit the agenda. Also, defense didn't lose that game. Now I'm on thin ice, I realize

Here, let me drive my pickup out to get you........

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Sometimes facts don't fit the agenda. Also, defense didn't lose that game. Now I'm on thin ice, I realize

You are right, we fell apart on both sides of the ball in the 2nd half of that game, just as we did in the following game vs. Va Tech.

Our Offense Vs. Missouri in the 2nd Half:
3rd Quarter   1st and Goal at Missouri 8 yard line. Run for no gain, run for 5 yards, thrown INT to kill drive at Missouri 3 yard line.
4th Quarter   1st and Goal at Missouri 4 yard line. Run for 3 yards, run for -1 yard, run for -3 yards, thrown INT to kill drive.
4th Quarter   1st and Goal at Missouri 9 yard line. Incomplete/holding penalty, completion for -1 yard, incompletion, incompletion, sack for 17 yards, intentional grounding.

Of course I am sure I don't need to mention the defense allowing a 48 yard completion that set them up at our 16 yard line, a 67 yard completion for a TD or a 49 yard completion that set them up at our 13 yard line, all of which occurred in the 2nd half and all of which resulted in 21 points.

That failure was a team effort.

[lefty08]

You are right, we fell apart on both sides of the ball in the 2nd half of that game, just as we did in the following game vs. Va Tech.

Our Offense Vs. Missouri in the 2nd Half:
3rd Quarter   1st and Goal at Missouri 8 yard line. Run for no gain, run for 5 yards, thrown INT to kill drive at Missouri 3 yard line.
4th Quarter   1st and Goal at Missouri 4 yard line. Run for 3 yards, run for -1 yard, run for -3 yards, thrown INT to kill drive.
4th Quarter   1st and Goal at Missouri 9 yard line. Incomplete/holding penalty, completion for -1 yard, incompletion, incompletion, sack for 17 yards, intentional grounding.

Of course I am sure I don't need to mention the defense allowing a 48 yard completion that set them up at our 16 yard line, a 67 yard completion for a TD or a 49 yard completion that set them up at our 13 yard line, all of which occurred in the 2nd half and all of which resulted in 21 points.

That failure was a team effort.

I stand corrected. My memory had the Missouri game as a comedy of interceptions, I guess that was the tech game

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I stand corrected. My memory had the Missouri game as a comedy of interceptions, I guess that was the tech game

Well there were 2 thrown in the Missouri game in the 2nd half inside their 10 yard line that denied us 14 points, but here is the Tech game except this illustrates all 4 quarters.

1st Quarter   1st and 10 at VT 26. Incompletion, 9 yard run, run for -3 yards, settle for FG.
2nd Quarter   1st and 10 at VT 34. Completion for 4 yards, completion for -4 yards, incompletion, punt from VT 34.
3rd Quarter   3rd and 19 at Ark 16, Completion for 14 yards, fumble, recovered by VT, 3 plays later VT scores 7.
3rd Quarter   3rd and 10 at Ark 33. Thrown INT at Ark 44. 6 plays later, VT scores another 7.
3rd Quarter   1st and 10 at our own 16. Thrown INT returned to our 5 yard line. 1 play and VT scores 7 more.
4th Quarter   3rd and 17 at our own 17. Thrown INT returned to our 8 yard line. 2 plays later, VT scores 7 more.

Another game where we should have been named the MVP for the opposing team.

[LZH]

How do you come to this conclusion?

Since joining the SEC we've done quite well against Auburn and A&M seems to be wasting their potential as an SECW heavyweight. If we really had our **** together, I see no reason why we shouldn't beat them more that they beat us.

[Dominicanhog]

Well there were 2 thrown in the Missouri game in the 2nd half inside their 10 yard line that denied us 14 points, but here is the Tech game except this illustrates all 4 quarters.

1st Quarter   1st and 10 at VT 26. Incompletion, 9 yard run, run for -3 yards, settle for FG.
2nd Quarter   1st and 10 at VT 34. Completion for 4 yards, completion for -4 yards, incompletion, punt from VT 34.
3rd Quarter   3rd and 19 at Ark 16, Completion for 14 yards, fumble, recovered by VT, 3 plays later VT scores 7.
3rd Quarter   3rd and 10 at Ark 33. Thrown INT at Ark 44. 6 plays later, VT scores another 7.
3rd Quarter   1st and 10 at our own 16. Thrown INT returned to our 5 yard line. 1 play and VT scores 7 more.
4th Quarter   3rd and 17 at our own 17. Thrown INT returned to our 8 yard line. 2 plays later, VT scores 7 more.

Another game where we should have been named the MVP for the opposing team.

you can go back to BA's first 2 years and many of our losses looked exactly the same.. Offense can't produce, often turning it over and leaving opposing team a short field...defense can't handle the pressure and falls apart.. in many games, it was just make a first down and keep the ball, running out the clock...

IMO, and I'm often wrong, but I lay both those losses and many before, at the feet of the offense... seems our adjustments in the 2nd half and especially late, don't keep up with opposing teams...

Not that the defense doesn't share the responsibility, but the offense has often gone from world beaters in the first half to almost inept in the 2nd half...

[jgphillips3]

Honestly, I really don't care about the past four years.  The future takes shape this year.  We have a 2 year referendum on Bielema coming and his own words say he understands that.  All kids on campus, unless there is a "smile" recruit lingering, are his recruits.  He has a third year OC and senior QB.  He has a better DC and talent, even if not 5 star talent, all up and down the roster.  If we play tough, competitive football and come out with 8 or 9 wins with no collapses (Mizzou, Va Tech) or absolute failures (56-3) then we'll see what next year brings and have a two year period that determines who coaches in 2019.  Success makes it easy.  Failure makes it easy.  If we win 7 games each season...it's going to be ugly.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Since joining the SEC we've done quite well against Auburn and A&M seems to be wasting their potential as an SECW heavyweight. If we really had our **** together, I see no reason why we shouldn't beat them more that they beat us.

Sumlin is officially on the hot seat according to his AD at A&M.

DESTIN, Fla. -- We have our first official hot seat coach in the SEC for 2017. That would be Texas A&M's Kevin Sumlin. Don't ask me, ask Aggies athletic director Scott Woodward. The second-year AD said as much Tuesday on "The Paul Finebaum Show."

"Coach Sumlin knows he has to win. He has to win this year. He has to do better than he has done in the past."

http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/texas-a-ms-ad-just-put-coach-kevin-sumlin-square-on-the-hot-seat-entering-2017/

[go hogues]

Prepare for 6-7 wins.

This

[EastexHawg]

Up until the last five years we were beating the Aggies and they were a perennial joke.  Now they are beating us and suddenly we can't expect to beat them because they have superior talent, resources, and fan base.

The most frequent "reasoning" given for why A&M went from "we beat them every year" to "we can't beat them" between 2011 and the present is that they got a new coach, Kevin Sumlin.  Meanwhile, his own AD says Sumlin has underperformed and needs to start winning.  Going into each season, Sumlin is portrayed on this board as a drunk nincompoop who has run off all his QBs and is destroying A&M.  After he beats us each year he is a tremendous improvement over the coach we used to beat before 2012...the one who won three or four division championships in the NFL before going to College Station.

I hope no one gets hurt jumping through all those hoops.