NFL Combine shows how bogus most HS 40 times are

[Karma]

The fastest RB has been a 4.43 - TJ Yeldon and Duke Johnson were 4.6 which is almost top 10. Yet we read these high school players with sub 4.5's all the time.  I know the NFL combine is considered a slow track, but the reality is that HS 40 times are lowered to make them look better.

[LaDecima]

Actually, there's a monumental difference between running on a track and running on long length turf with rubber pellets that move like sand with each step.

Take into account how much BIGGER these kids are at 21 and 22 years old compared to when they ran at a Nike camp at 17 years old.

[Pancetta]

GOAT Jerry Rice 40 time 4.71
Goes to show the 40 isn't that useful anyway.

[regi]

These guys have just played a long season, now they have been working out, putting on weight for NFL scouts and getting ready to show their strength. Duke Johnson is fast, he had a grade 3 ankle Sprain against USCe in the Bowl Game. He probably did drop a 4.4 legit time, healthy, in High School. Joe Adams is one of the fastest on the field I ever saw, he only ran a 4;59 at combine

[hardtimes79]

These guys didn't get slower after better training and diet.  Like the op said those 40 times are usually bogus. I've come to the conclusion people don't realize how fast a 4.3 or 4.4 is.

[jgphillips3]

It doesn't really matter which set of times are true.  It's the differential that matters.  If all the 4.37 guys in high school are really 4.47, then the 4.47 high school guys are really 4.57.  You still want the guys who are leaving defenders in the dust regardless of the reported time.

[Wooderson]

This is an unusually slow year for rbs. Plus these guys are probably 20-40 pounds heavier than high school.

[carolinahogger]

I agree with the OP and would like to add that the 100th second increment is absurd.  It implies a degree of precision which does not exist.

[Hawgzinbowlz]

It doesn't really matter which set of times are true.  It's the differential that matters.  If all the 4.37 guys in high school are really 4.47, then the 4.47 high school guys are really 4.57.  You still want the guys who are leaving defenders in the dust regardless of the reported time.

Correct. A large percentage of fans understand that almost all H.S., hand held times, are not electronically correct. Basic reality of measurable recruiting numbers.
If a player is listed at 4.45 and another player is listed at 4.6 it is likely that .1-.2 should be added to both players time.
We want the guys LISTED at 4.3-4.5 as they are normally faster than the recruits listed at 4.6-4.7.
Speed is what we need in the SECW.

" GO HOGS "

[jesterzzn]

Listed 40 times are useless.  That's why every coach wants to use his own stop watch.  Not because hes necessarily more accurate than anyone else, but because he can have a consistent point of comparison.

999 times out of 1000 a person that claims to run a 4.3 is a liar.

[bulldog04]

GOAT Jerry Rice 40 time 4.71
Goes to show the 40 isn't that useful anyway.

Especially at WR.  There are plenty of good WRs than ran 4.5 and slower.  Route running, body control, catching, and understanding how to get open is a lot more important.  Every year there is a WR than runs a 4.3 and shoots up the draft board. Then in a couple of years he's out of the league

[jesterzzn]

Blazing speed at WR has always been overrated.  I can think of only a couple guys in NFL history that were so fast that they could not only out run the cushion, but do it before they out ran the QBs arm.

Willie Gault
Joey Galloway

That's my list.  Both really good receivers.  Neither in the conversation for best all time.  Speed is a tool, but its not really in the top five for most important so long as you reach the minimum for consideration (which is probably in the 4.7 range).

Too many GMs draft based on what they can justify because of the numbers, rather than who is the best football player.

[arsuperhog]

A lot of high school times are hand timed.  The times at the combine are laser timed, which is much more accurate.

[Killean]

Blazing speed at WR has always been overrated.  I can think of only a couple guys in NFL history that were so fast that they could not only out run the cushion, but do it before they out ran the QBs arm.

Willie Gault
Joey Galloway

That's my list.  Both really good receivers.  Neither in the conversation for best all time.  Speed is a tool, but its not really in the top five for most important so long as you reach the minimum for consideration (which is probably in the 4.7 range).

Too many GMs draft based on what they can justify because of the numbers, rather than who is the best football player.

Bullet Bob Hayes was the reason for the zone defense.

[Boarcephus]

40 times and heights are all out of wack, especially in basketball.

[Breesus Is My Homeboy]

I'd rather my WRs be quick than 40-yd fast, but quality long speed is still an important trait. I'd be curious to know how many who ran a 4.6+ have found much success in the NFL over the last decade.

[Hawgzinbowlz]

Especially at WR.  There are plenty of good WRs than ran 4.5 and slower.  Route running, body control, catching, and understanding how to get open is a lot more important. Every year there is a WR than runs a 4.3 and shoots up the draft board. Then in a couple of years he's out of the league

Another important part of the equation, both in the SEC and NFL, is being tough enough to be productive when it's a given that the WRs are going to get the soup knocked out of them when the ball is in the vicinity. Catch the catchable balls regardless of the defense.

" GO HOGS "

[Theolesnort]

It is the perspective you have on it. The NFL combine is notorious for being a slow track then you have laser time and then they a lot of the times adjust the time up higher than what it showed. You can laser time athletes on the razorback track which is one of the fastest tracks anywhere. The time is legitimate but which do you go by , the combine or the track or for that matter some where in between? 4.7 ain't bad on a slow and slower track so then who really is bogus?

[jesterzzn]

Bullet Bob Hayes was the reason for the zone defense.

A bit before my time, but I don't doubt you.  it wasn't meant to be comprehensive just the only two I can remember from my lifetime.

[atekido]

Blazing speed at WR has always been overrated.  I can think of only a couple guys in NFL history that were so fast that they could not only out run the cushion, but do it before they out ran the QBs arm.

Willie Gault
Joey Galloway

That's my list.  Both really good receivers.  Neither in the conversation for best all time.  Speed is a tool, but its not really in the top five for most important so long as you reach the minimum for consideration (which is probably in the 4.7 range).

Too many GMs draft based on what they can justify because of the numbers, rather than who is the best football player.

Randy Moss.  out ran every defender on the field.

[jesterzzn]

Randy Moss.  out ran every defender on the field.

Occasionally.   Randy could out jump em every time though.

[The_Bionic_Pig]

These guys didn't get slower after better training and diet.  Like the op said those 40 times are usually bogus. I've come to the conclusion people don't realize how fast a 4.3 or 4.4 is.

Neon Deon had track speed on the gridiron

[supersaint]

These guys didn't get slower after better training and diet.  Like the op said those 40 times are usually bogus. I've come to the conclusion people don't realize how fast a 4.3 or 4.4 is.

You are correct.
Contrary to what many have posted, these guys get bigger AND faster. I've seen it and been a part of it.

[Biggus Piggus]

The fastest RB has been a 4.43 - TJ Yeldon and Duke Johnson were 4.6 which is almost top 10. Yet we read these high school players with sub 4.5's all the time.  I know the NFL combine is considered a slow track, but the reality is that HS 40 times are lowered to make them look better.

Hand timed vs. electronic. That's the only difference here.

[tophawg19]

40 times aren't a good measure anyway. players are coming from a sprinters stance using blocks . that isn't real world for most football players . there rarely is blocks on a football field . however the 40 times at the combine are on a slow surface

[clutch]

The difference as many have said is the hand times vs laser timed runs. Not many high schools have access to laser timed systems.

The "they are bigger" excuse isn't really correct. They are bigger, but they are usually faster too. A HUGE part of their pre combine training is dedicated solely to running the fastest 40 time possible. Speed gets you drafted. A 4-5 round type player that runs a 4.3 at the combine can jump to the 1st or 2nd rd. These guys know the speed is probably the most important thing for a lot of them at the combine when it comes to draft position. You can bet they aren't sacrificing it just so they can get a few more reps of 225lb bench press.

[hawginbigd1]

4.6 is too slow for Duke Johnson, I know that cat is faster than that! Either that or he loses zero time in pads!

[sowmonella]

What did Matt Jones run at the combine? Thanks I'll hang up and listen. :razorback:

[HiggiePiggy]

What did Matt Jones run at the combine? Thanks I'll hang up and listen. :razorback:

To bad he wasn't there in the head.  He might still be playing today. 

[tophawg19]

one thing . track athletes are trained to use the blocks . some guys never get comfortable with them and that hurts your time . someone who is comfortable in the blocks will always do better . to many players try to stand straight coming off the block and it hurts . just too many variables to pay much attention to it. it's just another tool but there are far better tests such as shuttle

[Hogarusa]

You guys have been tricked into caring how fast any athlete can run a 40 yard dash and thinking that it means anything

[31to6]

999 times out of 1000 a person that claims to run a 4.3 is a liar.

And most of those that do are not RBs.

Saw a recent list of the 4 fastest combine scores for SEC players on Saturday Down South. The top 4 40 times were all 4.32 and all were CBs (including Chris Houston).

When you put this all into perspective, it makes DMACs 4.33 even more impressive.

[Nuttcracker, Sweet!]

The fastest RB has been a 4.43 - TJ Yeldon and Duke Johnson were 4.6 which is almost top 10. Yet we read these high school players with sub 4.5's all the time.  I know the NFL combine is considered a slow track, but the reality is that HS 40 times are lowered to make them look better.

It's not that complicated. Hand held times (HS/College) vs the electronic times at the combine..

[Karma]

It's not that complicated. Hand held times (HS/College) vs the electronic times at the combine..

That's the point. The handheld time isnt as accurate.

[haveabeer]

Think Matt Jones 40 time was something like 4.37, freakishly fast. No I don't have a link.
Bob Hayes ran a 9.1 100 yd dash, which equates to a 10.0 100 meter. Wonder how fast he could run the 40?

[Dark Helmet Hog]

40 times have a lot in common with star ratings. 

[junkyardhog]

I coach track. If we got to a meet that's hand timed opposed to FAT timing we have to add .24 to the time they run. So it makes since that times are slower with laser time. We have a laser timer at my school the times my kids run are usually .3 more than what they run for the hand held timing PE teacher haha.

[kp72204]

i know Chris Johnson has/had the record and if he got past the initial wave he was gone. Same thing with Bo Jackson.

[lewd and lascivious]

Think Matt Jones 40 time was something like 4.37, freakishly fast. No I don't have a link.
Bob Hayes ran a 9.1 100 yd dash, which equates to a 10.0 100 meter. Wonder how fast he could run the 40?

http://www.realclearsports.com/lists/nfl_draft_stock_combine/matt_jones.html

[LZH]

I am still fast.  A 4.25 is nothing.  I ran a 5.0 in high school but I just keep getting faster and faster.......

[ICEman]

The FSU 'CrabCrawler' posted a time of just under 5 flat at the combine.

[twistitup]

I'm more concerned with the 10 Yd dash

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I sure hope Philon impresses a lot of teams at the Combine. CBS has projected him to be a Free Agent.

Overall                            Pos Rk                                     Proj Rd
283       *Darius Philon   DT   24   Arkansas   rSo   6-1   298   7-FA

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings

[hoghiker]

I am still fast.  A 4.25 is nothing.  I ran a 5.0 in high school but I just keep getting faster and faster.......

I bet that hand held , right? Faster, faster.

[intelligence]

4.33 McFadden
4.37 Jones
4.37 Davis

[Peter Porker]

I coach track. If we got to a meet that's hand timed opposed to FAT timing we have to add .24 to the time they run. So it makes since that times are slower with laser time. We have a laser timer at my school the times my kids run are usually .3 more than what they run for the hand held timing PE teacher haha.

Combine times are a handheld start and laser finish.
I'm going to PM you about coaching track if you don't mind.

[LaDecima]

.

[RedRock]

ill take a kid that plays mad over a kid that runs a fast 40

[twistitup]

ill take a kid that plays mad over a kid that runs a fast 40

I'll take a fast kid over your mad slow kid any day of the week

[LJHOG]

I sure hope Philon impresses a lot of teams at the Combine. CBS has projected him to be a Free Agent.

Overall                            Pos Rk                                     Proj Rd
283       *Darius Philon   DT   24   Arkansas   rSo   6-1   298   7-FA

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings

6-1 298  not gonna impress too many teams