Will Saban and Bret be blamed again?

[regi]

http://coachingsearch.com/article?a=NCAA-committee-proposes-illegal-man-downfield-rule-adjustment

The rule allowing College teams to black 3 yards downfield and still pass, is a huge advantage to spread option teams. It is why you look up and AU, OleMiss, State receivers seem to be wide open. In the NFL, you are only allowed 1 yard, could be a big advantage for us. Discuss

[onebadrubi]

I believe I noticed more of these penalties called this year than recent years

[rtr]

Saban yes Bret No.  I will blame Saban for the weather.

[PORKULATOR]

We aren't supposed to engage in a block down field at all on forward passes across the line of scrimmage, but they do that as well. I wish it were called as written on both behind the LOS and beyond the LOS, and be consistent. And not just constantly favoring the team that helps the SEC BIG PICTURE.
Wps
NY

[jgphillips3]

This is a rule they definitely need to fix. 

[DeltaBoy]

Good adjustment of that rule.

[JIHawg]

Maybe the correct word is "credit" rather than "blame".  Our coach is a visionary.

[wholehog92]

It's a needed rule to balance offense and defense some.  It screws up your read when the linemen fire off the ball two yards.  It looks like a run, sucks up the linebackers.  The QB then has a wide open field to throw the quick slant and the linemen are already in position to be blocking for a pass play.

Of course it affects your ability to react to the run as well.

Even teams that run spread offenses have to defend that crap.  It is a needed rule to balance out the D and O on the field more so than spread teams vs non spread.

[red_beard_82]

Bama was actually pretty bad about this this year. I believe they got caugh a couple of times. But AU, Ole Miss, State, Oregon,  Urban Meyer and those types base everything off of this.

[HogShat]

Making coach called timeouts instant replay reviewable.... Yes, we can probably blame that one on CBB!!!
"I was in the backfield..."

[MuskogeeHogFan]

It's a needed rule to balance offense and defense some.  It screws up your read when the linemen fire off the ball two yards.  It looks like a run, sucks up the linebackers.  The QB then has a wide open field to throw the quick slant and the linemen are already in position to be blocking for a pass play.

Of course it affects your ability to react to the run as well.

Even teams that run spread offenses have to defend that crap.  It is a needed rule to balance out the D and O on the field more so than spread teams vs non spread.

Three yards isn't much and I don't think we want to see the play-action, quick slant taken away. Maybe it wouldn't be anyway because the whole idea of the quick slant is that it happens quickly, right? Linemen fire out simulating run blocking, hopefully the RB carries out his fake effectively, just as if he had the ball, and the QB pulls the ball and makes the quick throw. Why would linemen need to be downfield in that situation? They wouldn't.

One instance where this comes more into play might be the quick WR screens where one WR or a man in motion, comes out and blocks the DB that is covering a designated receiver who lines up, but at the snap takes a step or two back to receive the ball, while the other player executes a block on the DB covering him, allowing the receiver a cushion of a few yards to try to make a play in the open field.

If the DB is playing off 5 yards or more, the designated blocker could gain ground and actually wind up 3 or more yards downfield by the time the ball is in the air. Probably doesn't happen often, but it could and probably more often late in games when the defense might be going more into a "prevent". If the blocker makes contact with the DB at the same time the ball is caught or is still in the air, to me, that should be offensive pass interference, because it prevents the DB from having the opportunity to make a play on the ball.

At the LOS, I don't see it being a big deal if it is 1 yard or 3 downfield, but in the instance that Herbstreit mentioned, 10-15 yards downfield, that is a clear violation of the existing rule and is just not being called. A change in rules in that case isn't needed. The officials just need to do a better job.

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

They could have used a picture that actually had illegal blocking downfield as an example...

[jbcarol]

AL.com sports @aldotcomSports  ·  12 minutes ago
Auburn's Gus Malzahn not a fan of proposal changing illegal man downfield http://ow.ly/Jq68h

[forrest city joe]

Another rule trying to help Saban and Alabama. they don't care what coach B thinks. it's all about Nick Saban and Alabama.

[jbcarol]

Coaches rally against recent rule change regarding downfield linemen

Paranoia. Paranoia. Everyone is out to get the spread teams.

Last year, Alabama's Nick Saban and Arkansas' Bret Bielema were advocates of slowing down the game by changing the defensive substitution rules...

Graham and Freeze are joined by Auburn's Gus Malzahn and Baylor's Art Briles in asking the rule be withdrawn from consideration.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Coaches rally against recent rule change regarding downfield linemen

"I just want 'em to enforce the rule they have," Arizona State head coach Todd Graham told USA TODAY's George Schroeder. "You're not supposed to be more than 3 yards downfield. They need to enforce that."

I don't care one bit for Graham but I agree with him in this case. There was no need for a new restriction to "1 yard beyond the LOS". 3 yards is as meaningless. If officials just called the game the way they are supposed to, this wouldn't even be a topic of discussion. Plum the refs up instead of making a meaningless change in the rules.

[Choctaw Hog]

“I just want ‘em to enforce the rule they have,” Arizona State head coach Todd Graham told USA TODAY‘s George Schroeder. “You’re not supposed to be more than 3 yards downfield. They need to enforce that.”

I don't care one bit for Graham but I agree with him in this case. There was no need for a new restriction to "1 yard beyond the LOS". 3 yards is as meaningless. If officials just called the game the way they are supposed to, this wouldn't even be a topic of discussion. Plum the refs up instead of making a meaningless change in the rules.

The problem is that 3 yards actually becomes 5 or more in practice.  It's just too hard to monitor every single play.  A 1 yard rule would be much easier to identify and enforce. 

[MuskogeeHogFan]

The problem is that 3 yards actually becomes 5 or more in practice.  It's just too hard to monitor every single play.  A 1 yard rule would be much easier to identify and enforce. 

I think we will find that this will not be any more enforced with any consistent effect than the previous rule. If the Refs were simply doing their jobs and making the right calls, this wouldn't even be an issue. JMO

[Choctaw Hog]

I think we will find that this will not be any more enforced with any consistent effect than the previous rule. If the Refs were simply doing their jobs and making the right calls, this wouldn't even be an issue. JMO

We shall see.  One thing I know for certain is all these coaches running a Mickey Mouse spread offense oppose the 1 yard rule for a reason.  That's all I need to know to support the implementation of it. 

[online-with-swine]

If everyone else is doing to gain an advantage and nothing is being done about it, then we need to start doing it as well.  Following the rules and doing what is right doesn't matter in college football anymore.  The only people who get punished are the ones who do follow the rules.

[Cinco de Hogo]

If everyone else is doing to gain an advantage and nothing is being done about it, then we need to start doing it as well.  Following the rules and doing what is right doesn't matter in college football anymore.  The only people who get punished are the ones who do follow the rules.

Exactly right, rules no matter whether they favor the offense or defense, spread or power will never be called on the field by SEC refs in a manner favoring Arkansas.

All teams have the same opportunity to run a scheme that best uses their talent in the best way according to the rules.  To stubbornly go against the grain is stupid.  Any team and I do mean any team can be taught how many yards they can block downfield and can run scheme that use said blocking.  If you think spread coaches can't change if the rules change wait around and watch.  THEY will figure something out just like Power team do now.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Exactly right, rules no matter whether they favor the offense or defense, spread or power will never be called on the field by SEC refs in a manner favoring Arkansas.

All teams have the same opportunity to run a scheme that best uses their talent in the best way according to the rules.  To stubbornly go against the grain is stupid.  Any team and I do mean any team can be taught how many yards they can block downfield and can run scheme that use said blocking.  If you think spread coaches can't change if the rules change wait around and watch.  THEY will figure something out just like Power team do now.

Whoa! Sounds like you are hold-over from the BP fan base or at the very least, not an advocate of the direction that Arkansas is headed. Of course it could also be that it sounds as if you think there is some anti-Arkansas, SEC conspiracy afoot.

[Hoggish1]

Maybe the correct word is "credit" rather than "blame".  Our coach is a visionary.

Bingo.  It's about time that the gimmicks stop.  Gus and Bucky Beaver have been gaming the system for a while now and their ruse may finally be coming to an end.

Wouldn't that be a shame...? 

[HawgTide]

The problem is that 3 yards actually becomes 5 or more in practice.  It's just too hard to monitor every single play.  A 1 yard rule would be much easier to identify and enforce. 

Yes it should be

[Cinco de Hogo]

Whoa! Sounds like you are hold-over from the BP fan base or at the very least, not an advocate of the direction that Arkansas is headed. Of course it could also be that it sounds as if you think there is some anti-Arkansas, SEC conspiracy afoot.

Is it a crime to be a fan of high powered offensive football?  That what I am not withstanding what Arkansas plays.  However I am just generally against men in suits tinkering with rules...as a rule😄

No, I don't believe there is a conspiracy, too many facts and proof in games.  From my point of view though there exist people with their heads planted firmly in the sand.

[Choctaw Hog]

If everyone else is doing to gain an advantage and nothing is being done about it, then we need to start doing it as well.  Following the rules and doing what is right doesn't matter in college football anymore.  The only people who get punished are the ones who do follow the rules.

Something is being done about it. 

[Cinco de Hogo]

Something is being done about it.

There is a rule now, is it called right or fairly at all times by the refs?  If not what makes you think any change will be called fairly.  Will SEC refs call it on Bama or Florida players that are two yards downfield when we play them?  The poster you responded to though doesn't realize that it would of course be called on use if we where too far downfield.

[Hoggish1]

There is a rule now, is it called right or fairly at all times by the refs? 

It may not be called against teams not named Arkansas (we've been screwed before), but one yard should make it much clearer to the Zebras...

[Cinco de Hogo]

It may not be called against teams not named Arkansas (we've been screwed before), but one yard should make it much clearer to the Zebras...

Maybe, I'm just saying don't expect it to benefit Arkansas as it would a Bama or several other SEC team...even hated Auburn who some think it can be used against.

You watch, the one yard if it passes WILL be called against Arkansas in a game against Auburn BEFORE its called on Auburn.  We can revisit that next season.

[regi]

3 yards downfield is a huge advantage to the offense, huge. It makes it almost impossible for linebackers to drop into zone coverage, when a guard is firing out and hitting them in the face, next thing you know, the ball comes whistling past your ear. Go to the NFL rule, if it is good enough for the best, it is good enough for College. Not shocked that Briles, Freeze and Gus are whining like little girls about not changing it, they know what a huge advantage it is for the offense.

[hoghiker]

 http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/new-ncaa-linemen-rule/vi-BBhPOT7?ocid=AARDHP
These guys don't like it and mention Saban and BB as people that wanted it. Said it passed because the SEC wanted it. They seem to think the screen pass is now dead.

[31to6]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/new-ncaa-linemen-rule/vi-BBhPOT7?ocid=AARDHP
They seem to think the screen pass is now dead.

Because they are too busy to watch football on Sunday?

LOL

[wholehog92]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/new-ncaa-linemen-rule/vi-BBhPOT7?ocid=AARDHP
These guys don't like it and mention Saban and BB as people that wanted it. Said it passed because the SEC wanted it. They seem to think the screen pass is now dead.

It is dead the way they were running it.  It is not dead if you have the O-linemen capable of actually pulling lateral and blocking it like a true screen pass instead of a long handoff on a sweep.

[wholehog92]

Three yards isn't much and I don't think we want to see the play-action, quick slant taken away. Maybe it wouldn't be anyway because the whole idea of the quick slant is that it happens quickly, right? Linemen fire out simulating run blocking, hopefully the RB carries out his fake effectively, just as if he had the ball, and the QB pulls the ball and makes the quick throw. Why would linemen need to be downfield in that situation? They wouldn't.

One instance where this comes more into play might be the quick WR screens where one WR or a man in motion, comes out and blocks the DB that is covering a designated receiver who lines up, but at the snap takes a step or two back to receive the ball, while the other player executes a block on the DB covering him, allowing the receiver a cushion of a few yards to try to make a play in the open field.

If the DB is playing off 5 yards or more, the designated blocker could gain ground and actually wind up 3 or more yards downfield by the time the ball is in the air. Probably doesn't happen often, but it could and probably more often late in games when the defense might be going more into a "prevent". If the blocker makes contact with the DB at the same time the ball is caught or is still in the air, to me, that should be offensive pass interference, because it prevents the DB from having the opportunity to make a play on the ball.

At the LOS, I don't see it being a big deal if it is 1 yard or 3 downfield, but in the instance that Herbstreit mentioned, 10-15 yards downfield, that is a clear violation of the existing rule and is just not being called. A change in rules in that case isn't needed. The officials just need to do a better job.

I think you missed my point.  Linemen run blocking give a false read to the LBs and open up the area between DBs and LBs.

Note the linemen run blocking on the pass here and the giant open area for the receiver here against a very good defense:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=767uX5614J0

It gives the offense a huge advantage.  Every player on defense made the correct read.

[Birminghog]

Regardless of benefit or detriment to a given offense, the new rule seems to me to have two advantages.

1. Easier to enforce. >1 much easier to to see than >3
2. If part of the idea is to prepare players for the next level, this helps all concerned, both on offense and defense.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I think you missed my point.  Linemen run blocking give a false read to the LBs and open up the area between DBs and LBs.

Note the linemen run blocking on the pass here and the giant open area for the receiver here against a very good defense:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=767uX5614J0

It gives the offense a huge advantage.  Every player on defense made the correct read.

Offensive linemen have blocked aggressively as if for a run on certain passing plays for years. It has always been limited to what has been termed as the tackle box. 3 yards either side of the spot of the ball and one yard outside either end of the line as I recall. Suddenly officials, after all these years are having issues with calling an offensive lineman "downfield" on a passing play, when they have been doing it for years?

There isn't anything at all wrong with sucking the LB's in with aggressive blocking at the LOS that they read as run, when it is really a quick pass. It never works when the pass play is further downfield, usually only works on the quicker, shorter crossing slants behind the LB's or the shallow flat passes. It is deception and just a part of the strategy of the game.

It doesn't give any more advantage to the offense now, than it has for last 30-40 years.

[wholehog92]

Offensive linemen have blocked aggressively as if for a run on certain passing plays for years. It has always been limited to what has been termed as the tackle box. 3 yards either side of the spot of the ball and one yard outside either end of the line as I recall. Suddenly officials, after all these years are having issues with calling an offensive lineman "downfield" on a passing play, when they have been doing it for years?

There isn't anything at all wrong with sucking the LB's in with aggressive blocking at the LOS that they read as run, when it is really a quick pass. It never works when the pass play is further downfield, usually only works on the quicker, shorter crossing slants behind the LB's or the shallow flat passes. It is deception and just a part of the strategy of the game.

It doesn't give any more advantage to the offense now, than it has for last 30-40 years.

It's not a suddenly officials are having trouble issue.  I swear you are purposely avoiding the point for some reason.  The issue is offenses have changed the way they work within the rule and gained a significant advantage.

I challenge you to show me a game film outside of the last 10 years where an O-line fires out like they are running the ball and throws a slant.  Maybe Houston around the Andre Ware time frame.  Boise St might have been doing that stuff 10 years ago.  It is along ways from common like you are making it out to be.  That's why those school's were an anomaly.  Now that is the norm and people talk like "It's always been that way, why change it now?"  No it hasn't; or tell my why else those two schools were noteworthy 10 or 15 years ago.

They are responding to this change in game play to try to even the field...Like they have already done in the NFL.  For what it's worth, I firmly believe this is a large part of why spread offenses aren't as successful in the NFL.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

It's not a suddenly officials are having trouble issue.  I swear you are purposely avoiding the point for some reason.  The issue is offenses have changed the way they work within the rule and gained a significant advantage.

I challenge you to show me a game film outside of the last 10 years where an O-line fires out like they are running the ball and throws a slant.  Maybe Houston around the Andre Ware time frame.  Boise St might have been doing that stuff 10 years ago.  It is along ways from common like you are making it out to be.  That's why those school's were an anomaly.  Now that is the norm and people talk like "It's always been that way, why change it now?"  No it hasn't; or tell my why else those two schools were noteworthy 10 or 15 years ago.

They are responding to this change in game play to try to even the field...Like they have already done in the NFL.  For what it's worth, I firmly believe this is a large part of why spread offenses aren't as successful in the NFL.

I'm not trying to avoid the point, sorry if it seems so. I just don't see what the problem is. If linemen  are downfield beyond allowable limits, throw a flag. If there is a busted screen pass and the QB has to throw downfield and there are linemen downfield, throw the flag and bring the play back. Heck, I don't care if they do change it to 1 yard. Just seems like a whole lot about nothing. If officials would just make the calls they are supposed to make when they are supposed to make them, this probably wouldn't even be an issue.

[jbcarol]

AL.com sports @aldotcomSports  ·  6 minutes ago

Gus Malzahn thinks rule proposal on linemen downfield 'takes the creativity out of the game' http://s.al.com/gsa5rfN

[Inhogswetrust]

3 yards downfield is a huge advantage to the offense, huge. It makes it almost impossible for linebackers to drop into zone coverage, when a guard is firing out and hitting them in the face, next thing you know, the ball comes whistling past your ear. Go to the NFL rule, if it is good enough for the best, it is good enough for College. Not shocked that Briles, Freeze and Gus are whining like little girls about not changing it, they know what a huge advantage it is for the offense.

Bingo! Most rules are set up to let the offense have an advantage. Why should the offense have all the advantages?

[jbcarol]

Chris Low @ClowESPN  ·  13 hours ago

Looks like proposal to change illegal man downfield rule from 3 yards to 1 yard has been sent back to rules committee for more discussion.

[longpig]

The problem is that 3 yards actually becomes 5 or more in practice.  It's just too hard to monitor every single play.  A 1 yard rule would be much easier to identify and enforce.

Exactly.  It gets called at 4 to 5 yards now, will get called at 2 to 3 yards if it's changed. 

[ricepig]

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/proposed-ineligible-downfield-rule-tabled-prop

[jbcarol]

Bruce Feldman @BruceFeldmanCFB  ·  2 hours ago

How big is NCAA tabling the 1 vs 3-yd downfield rule? One coach told me they ran 100 such plays in 2014. 3 were illegal. 63 would've been.

[jbcarol]

AL.com sports @aldotcomSports  ·  38m 38 minutes ago

Live at 9 with @Natalie_Pierre: Enforcing current ineligible receiver downfield rule - right call by the NCAA? http://ow.ly/K6kdx