Was this our ceiling under CMA?

[GoHogs1091]

Yes, this is the ceiling under Anderson.

When you use an outdated slogan based system ("Fastest 40 Minutes") and the required solid fundamentally sound basketball is not embraced and engrained into a basketball program by the Head Coach it leads to mediocre results such as today's result.

[Pumbaa]

A guard-heavy, senior-heavy team just got their azz handed to them by a mid-major. This is about as good as it's going to get under Mike Anderson, isn't it? We have no savior in sight, this is it. Is this good enough for our fanbase? Is there any evidence that we'll be any better than this team in the next few years? Maybe he just can't get the job done here?

How could this year be the ceiling when last year you took the future national champions to the wire in the second round? And arguably would have won that game had a ref not completely made the worst call of his career in the waning minutes. No offense, just doesn't seem like solid logic to me.

[steveaustin69]

How could this year be the ceiling when last year you took the future national champions to the wire in the second round? And arguably would have won that game had a ref not completely made the worst call of his career in the waning minutes. No offense, just doesn't seem like solid logic to me.

Did we win?

[Pumbaa]

Did we win?

No, but was it better than this year? I would say yes. You may say no.
Well ok, then lets look at 14-15. That team was a higher seed, made it to the second round, and had a really entertaining game with North Carolina in the second round. I'm not sure you can argue that that team didn't exceed what this years team did.
Either way, Mike has had better years than this year so how can this year be our ceiling?

[steveaustin69]

No, but was it better than this year? I would say yes. You may say no.
Well ok, then lets look at 14-15. That team was a higher seed, made it to the second round, and had a really entertaining game with North Carolina in the second round. I'm not sure you can argue that that team didn't exceed what this years team did.
Either way, Mike has had better years than this year so how can this year be our ceiling?

I don't think you want to go down this road with me, bud.

[hogsanity]

The ceiling with Mike was always going to be being what we have seen now for 7 seasons. Not having nearly the team to do anything except just enough to keep Mike employed.

[Pumbaa]

I don't think you want to go down this road with me, bud.

I'd just love to hear the logic that backs up that this year is our ceiling with Mike when we have surpassed this so called "ceiling" with Mike. I could understand you calling one of those years a ceiling but not this year when we have had better years with Mike. That part makes zero sense to me buddy..

[Wild Bill Hog]

The SEC is getting stronger, but we are staying the same which could very easily be bad news.  We may win 1 or 2 more games some years or lose 1 or 2 more games some years, but the end result on a National level will be pretty much the same old same old.  SSDD.

[hogsanity]

I'd just love to hear the logic that backs up that this year is our ceiling with Mike when we have surpassed this so called "ceiling" with Mike. I could understand you calling one of those years a ceiling but not this year when we have had better years with Mike. That part makes zero sense to me buddy..

The "ceiling" is just doing enough for Mike to stay employed. no conference titles ( reg season or tourney ) no deep NCAAT runs, no big time recruits unless they are born and raised in state, and even then Mike is not  great at landing those players.

[steveaustin69]

I'd just love to hear the logic that backs up that this year is our ceiling with Mike when we have surpassed this so called "ceiling" with Mike. I could understand you calling one of those years a ceiling but not this year when we have had better years with Mike. That part makes zero sense to me buddy..

Do you see us getting better than this? We'll be an OK team that can maybe win one game in the tournament. That's the ceiling. That's what we were this year. That's what we were last year.

[rzrbackramsfan]

The "ceiling" is just doing enough for Mike to stay employed. no conference titles ( reg season or tourney ) no deep NCAAT runs, no big time recruits unless they are born and raised in state, and even then Mike is not  great at landing those players.

Well eventually, our standards are going to raise and raise to where we'll expect a title.  So if he keeps doing just enough to keep his job, he'll win a title.

When mike took over, the expectation was to be a consistent tournament team. All signs point toward us being that.  Naturally, now we want more than just an NCAAT appearance, we want a S16.  I'm guessing Mike has this year or next to get to that level before he is let go.  Going by your logic he'll get one.  But then, guess what, we'll want a final four or he'll be let go.  I guess again, according to your logic he'll get one of those. 

Knowing how fans expectations work, claiming that a coach will do just enough to keep his job for an unknown time frame is high praise!!

[Pumbaa]

Do you see us getting better than this? We'll be an OK team that can maybe win one game in the tournament. That's the ceiling. That's what we were this year. That's what we were last year.

The initial post of this thread seemed to be saying that this year was the best we could ever do with Mike. I am saying that we have done better. Arguably twice. I can respect the above quoted opinion more than the initial post of this thread. But those seemed to be two separate ideas to me. It's all about draws when you get to the tourney. Last years team was good. The 14-15 team was better. I think both were very capable of going deeper just didn't get favorable draws. Not an excuse, just how it happened. I would like to see the incoming class before saying we can't do better with Mike. I think what we have coming in is very positive for the future of the program.

[Oliver]

Well eventually, our standards are going to raise and raise to where we'll expect a title.  So if he keeps doing just enough to keep his job, he'll win a title.

When mike took over, the expectation was to be a consistent tournament team. All signs point toward us being that.  Naturally, now we want more than just an NCAAT appearance, we want a S16.  I'm guessing Mike has this year or next to get to that level before he is let go.  Going by your logic he'll get one.  But then, guess what, we'll want a final four or he'll be let go.  I guess again, according to your logic he'll get one of those. 

Knowing how fans expectations work, claiming that a coach will do just enough to keep his job for an unknown time frame is high praise!!

There is zero chance he'll make a Sweet 16 in the next two years.  ZERO.  So why wait?

[steveaustin69]

The initial post of this thread seemed to be saying that this year was the best we could ever do with Mike. I am saying that we have done better. Arguably twice. I can respect the above quoted opinion more than the initial post of this thread. But those seemed to be two separate ideas to me. It's all about draws when you get to the tourney. Last years team was good. The 14-15 team was better. I think both were very capable of going deeper just didn't get favorable draws. Not an excuse, just how it happened. I would like to see the incoming class before saying we can't do better with Mike. I think what we have coming in is very positive for the future of the program.

Our incoming class is ridiculously inflated by volume.

[hogsanity]

Well eventually, our standards are going to raise and raise to where we'll expect a title.  So if he keeps doing just enough to keep his job, he'll win a title.

When mike took over, the expectation was to be a consistent tournament team. All signs point toward us being that.  Naturally, now we want more than just an NCAAT appearance, we want a S16.  I'm guessing Mike has this year or next to get to that level before he is let go.  Going by your logic he'll get one.  But then, guess what, we'll want a final four or he'll be let go.  I guess again, according to your logic he'll get one of those. 

Knowing how fans expectations work, claiming that a coach will do just enough to keep his job for an unknown time frame is high praise!!

Except I do not think the standards are going to raise. They are going to stay at " just make the NCATT " and stay at " we love seeing Mike on the sideline, it reminds of us of 1994 ".

[rzrbackramsfan]

There is zero chance he'll make a Sweet 16 in the next two years.  ZERO.  So why wait?

You can't back that absolute statement up.

[rzrbackramsfan]

Except I do not think the standards are going to raise. They are going to stay at " just make the NCATT " and stay at " we love seeing Mike on the sideline, it reminds of us of 1994 ".

I’d have to disagree. 

You see programs fire good coaches all the time because the coaches don’t meet their increased expectation.  Even when those increased expectations are as a result of the progress the fired coach made.  Coach Ford at Oklahoma State and Andy Kennedy come to mind. Why would Arkansas be any different?


Do you think the Bud is packed because Mike Anderson brings back memories of the good old days?

[Pumbaa]

Our incoming class is ridiculously inflated by volume.

I have seen Desi, Isiah, Ethan. I'm not looking at rankings or anything like that. Simply potential. By potential, I believe this class is very positive for the future.
I think I could put you on a pedestal and tell you I thought the sun shines out your backside and you would want to find something wrong with that statement to argue with. I mean dang, I was trying to tell you I respected your opinion. It was simply not what I was talking about in any of these posts. It's almost as if you don't want to admit that we have done better because that would almost be a compliment to Mike.

[Rzbakfromwaybak]

  Every so often, you get a player who can and will motivate himself and then maybe another or 2 that says hell, lets get it.  Has nothing to do with Mike.  He couldn't motivate a frog to jump.     

Lol.  Now, that's funny.....also sad.

[jvanhorn]

You never know what kind of chemistry a team will have and if they can get hot, get a good draw and make a run in the tournament.  Making the tournament should be the standard.  Also, our recruiting is still trending up.

And yet another trip down the River De Nile.

[hogsanity]

I'd have to disagree. 

You see programs fire good coaches all the time because the coaches don't meet their increased expectation.  Even when those increased expectations are as a result of the progress the fired coach made.  Coach Ford at Oklahoma State and Andy Kennedy come to mind. Why would Arkansas be any different?


Do you think the Bud is packed because Mike Anderson brings back memories of the good old days?

How many times in the last 7 seasons has bwa been packed? How many actual attendances have even topped 15k in those 7 seasons?

[rzrbackramsfan]

How many times in the last 7 seasons has bwa been packed? How many actual attendances have even topped 15k in those 7 seasons?

Ask Alexa. 

It's sold out quite a few times though.  Every SEC Saturday game this year I believe. 

You arguing that attendance is low actually contradicts your original point though.  You said we won't fire Mike because everyone loves seeing him on the sidelines because it's CMA.  If they didn't care about it being mike, they wouldn't show up to the games.

[sadhogfan]

A guard-heavy, senior-heavy team just got their azz handed to them by a mid-major. This is about as good as it's going to get under Mike Anderson, isn't it? We have no savior in sight, this is it. Is this good enough for our fanbase? Is there any evidence that we'll be any better than this team in the next few years? Maybe he just can't get the job done here?

It's okay to be frustrated, but this paragraph of questions is fraught with problems:

(1) Is Butler really a mid-major at this point? They play in the Big East, beat Villanova this year, and have won something like 11 out of their last 12 first round games. Anyone who was paying attention knew this was a terrible match-up for us. It wasn't a shocking result.

(2) Guard-heavy? We had three senior guards who were really good (well, two were great, one was good). But after that, we had no guards to speak of at all. At the point that Garland was never cleared to play, we became devoid of quality depth, especially at the guard position.

We had to ride Macon and Barford heavily, and ran them into the ground minutes-wise.

(3) Senior-laden? We had a bunch of seniors, sure, but this has been a bit of a misnomer all year. Cook? DT has been here for two years and wasn't here when it counted most this season. TT is a gamer, but ultimately a role player.

Still, we had three senior guards who played a bunch, and that is a lot in today's game. We've already discussed them, and unfortunately, they didn't show up today.

This was a team with some high-end talent, but it was also flawed from the get-go. Gafford's intermittent bursts of spectacular play covered some holes and blinded people to the reality that this team was never as good as last year's team. It shouldn't have been, either. The chance for that was lost at the point that we lost our guard depth.

We can still be upset that we lost today, and especially upset at the way the game was started, and the fact that our three best players didn't really show up today. But questions about *this team* being MA's ceiling are somewhat disingenuous, because it is probably the 3rd best of his teams here.

Short of 10-12 outstanding coaches who I don't believe we could attract here, I believe the way to elevate our program is to establish a pattern of consistent NCAAT appearances that builds into a culture of winning and recruiting success. I think it has taken a couple years too long to get to where we are, but I do think that is what MA is doing right now, and I believe that he or someone else will continue to build on that foundation.

I have been mad about the loss all day, but in a year of unprecedented basketball parity where the overall number one seed lost in the first round, we should probably temper our outrage that we lost an opening round game that Vegas had us losing to a program that has been far better than ours for the last decade.

[Pumbaa]

It's okay to be frustrated, but this paragraph of questions is fraught with problems:

(1) Is Butler really a mid-major at this point? They play in the Big East, beat Villanova this year, and have won something like 11 out of their last 12 first round games. Anyone who was paying attention knew this was a terrible match-up for us. It wasn't a shocking result.

(2) Guard-heavy? We had three senior guards who were really good (well, two were great, one was good). But after that, we had no guards to speak of at all. At the point that Garland was never cleared to play, we became devoid of quality depth, especially at the guard position.

We had to ride Macon and Barford heavily, and ran them into the ground minutes-wise.

(3) Senior-laden? We had a bunch of seniors, sure, but this has been a bit of a misnomer all year. Cook? DT has been here for two years and wasn't here when it counted most this season. TT is a gamer, but ultimately a role player.

Still, we had three senior guards who played a bunch, and that is a lot in today's game. We've already discussed them, and unfortunately, they didn't show up today.

This was a team with some high-end talent, but it was also flawed from the get-go. Gafford's intermittent bursts of spectacular play covered some holes and blinded people to the reality that this team was never as good as last year's team. It shouldn't have been, either. The chance for that was lost at the point that we lost our guard depth.

We can still be upset that we lost today, and especially upset at the way the game was started, and the fact that our three best players didn't really show up today. But questions about *this team* being MA's ceiling are somewhat disingenuous, because it is probably the 3rd best of his teams here.

Short of 10-12 outstanding coaches who I don't believe we could attract here, I believe the way to elevate our program is to establish a pattern of consistent NCAAT appearances that builds into a culture of winning and recruiting success. I think it has taken a couple years too long to get to where we are, but I do think that is what MA is doing right now, and I believe that he or someone else will continue to build on that foundation.

I have been mad about the loss all day, but in a year of unprecedented basketball parity where the overall number one seed lost in the first round, we should probably temper our outrage that we lost an opening round game that Vegas had us losing to a program that has been far better than ours for the last decade.

THANK YOU!!! +1000000000
100% agree

[Kevin]

16 years has head coach
average wins 22
average loses 11
share regular season championship, same year as sweet sixteen
big 12 tournament championship, same year as elite eight

so, in 16 years, he has had two really good years, the rest is average.

this year was just another average year.
he is good enough to keep his job, and make lots of money

[Knot2brite]

Ceiling is a winning record every year but also double digit losses most years. A top 30 recruiting class MOST years but never a top 15. A trip to the tourney 3 out of 5 years with a first or second round exit almost every time. A sweet sixteen every ten years. Sounds exciting. I figure we are one more MA extension away from killing any interest in basketball except for the MA nostalgia lovers

[The_Iceman]

16 years has head coach
average wins 22
average loses 11
share regular season championship, same year as sweet sixteen
big 12 tournament championship, same year as elite eight

so, in 16 years, he has had two really good years, the rest is average.

this year was just another average year.
he is good enough to keep his job, and make lots of money

At Arkansas, he has been Mediocre.

[GuvHog]

There is zero chance he’ll make a Sweet 16 in the next two years.  ZERO.  So why wait?

I wouldn't say there is zero chance of making the Sweet 16 the next 2 years but if Gafford opts for the NBA Draft, it's highly unlikely. For a freshman heavy team with a player pushing 6'9" as it's tallest player, making the NIT next year would be an accomplishment.

[Nickle-Pig]

The Boss Hog is one of four current Division I coaches with 15 years of head coaching experience and zero losing seasons.

[Atlhogfan1]

The Boss Hog is one of four current Division I coaches with 15 years of head coaching experience and zero losing seasons.

Irrelevant stat and bs deflection. 

[rzrbackramsfan]

It's okay to be frustrated, but this paragraph of questions is fraught with problems:

(1) Is Butler really a mid-major at this point? They play in the Big East, beat Villanova this year, and have won something like 11 out of their last 12 first round games. Anyone who was paying attention knew this was a terrible match-up for us. It wasn't a shocking result.

(2) Guard-heavy? We had three senior guards who were really good (well, two were great, one was good). But after that, we had no guards to speak of at all. At the point that Garland was never cleared to play, we became devoid of quality depth, especially at the guard position.

We had to ride Macon and Barford heavily, and ran them into the ground minutes-wise.

(3) Senior-laden? We had a bunch of seniors, sure, but this has been a bit of a misnomer all year. Cook? DT has been here for two years and wasn't here when it counted most this season. TT is a gamer, but ultimately a role player.

Still, we had three senior guards who played a bunch, and that is a lot in today's game. We've already discussed them, and unfortunately, they didn't show up today.

This was a team with some high-end talent, but it was also flawed from the get-go. Gafford's intermittent bursts of spectacular play covered some holes and blinded people to the reality that this team was never as good as last year's team. It shouldn't have been, either. The chance for that was lost at the point that we lost our guard depth.

We can still be upset that we lost today, and especially upset at the way the game was started, and the fact that our three best players didn't really show up today. But questions about *this team* being MA's ceiling are somewhat disingenuous, because it is probably the 3rd best of his teams here.

Short of 10-12 outstanding coaches who I don't believe we could attract here, I believe the way to elevate our program is to establish a pattern of consistent NCAAT appearances that builds into a culture of winning and recruiting success. I think it has taken a couple years too long to get to where we are, but I do think that is what MA is doing right now, and I believe that he or someone else will continue to build on that foundation.

I have been mad about the loss all day, but in a year of unprecedented basketball parity where the overall number one seed lost in the first round, we should probably temper our outrage that we lost an opening round game that Vegas had us losing to a program that has been far better than ours for the last decade.

Mic drop

[liljo]

Our incoming class is ridiculously inflated by volume.

...what the h3!! does that even mean?

[rzrbackramsfan]

At Arkansas, he has been Mediocre.

Dude that's all you have: calling Mike Mediocre and not backing it up and trying to being an expert on recruiting based off of a few recruiting videos. 

[Swine-as-wine]

Yes. Next year is going to be bad, really bad. It's time for him to go and I hate saying that because I hoped it was going to work out. It's time though to go a different route, he's never going to get us anything better than a first weekend exit.

I could have sworn that we had been on a streak of 3 consecutive 1st round wins in the NCAA tourney.

[GuvHog]

I could have sworn that we had been on a streak of 3 consecutive 1st round wins in the NCAA tourney.

One of those was back when Pel was the head coach. Doing it only twice in a 7 year tenure is nothing to crow about.

[rude1]

The initial post of this thread seemed to be saying that this year was the best we could ever do with Mike. I am saying that we have done better. Arguably twice. I can respect the above quoted opinion more than the initial post of this thread. But those seemed to be two separate ideas to me. It's all about draws when you get to the tourney. Last years team was good. The 14-15 team was better. I think both were very capable of going deeper just didn't get favorable draws. Not an excuse, just how it happened. I would like to see the incoming class before saying we can't do better with Mike. I think what we have coming in is very positive for the future of the program.

Your draw is based on what you do during the regular season, unfortunately MA teams have an uncanny ability to drop games to teams at the middle and bottom of the conference every season. Win the games you should win, you draw a better seed, you don't get shipped nearly a 1000 miles from home to play either, these things increase your chances to advance in the tourney. It's not just a crap shoot like some of you are trying to make it.

[Pumbaa]

Your draw is based on what you do during the regular season, unfortunately MA teams have an uncanny ability to drop games to teams at the middle and bottom of the conference every season. Win the games you should win, you draw a better seed, you don't get shipped nearly a 1000 miles from home to play either, these things increase your chances to advance in the tourney. It's not just a crap shoot like some of you are trying to make it.

Who was at the bottom of the conference that we lost to this year?
Also, is that why Auburn is playing in San Diego?

[LumberBacks]

Yup.  And wait til next year when the only returning players with significant playing time are CJ, Hall and Bailey - assuming that Gaff is gone.  Two small forwards and a combo guard who doesn't have great handles.  It's gonna be painful for a few years.  If CMA gets next year's team to the NCAA, then he earned it.  But he has not set himself up for success by not being able to recruit enough bigs, and allowing a team to be so sr. laden.  Hogs have to be projected last in the SEC next year.  Very last.

[Atlhogfan1]

Dude that's all you have: calling Mike Mediocre and not backing it up and trying to being an expert on recruiting based off of a few recruiting videos.

Mike hasn't done darn at Arkansas noteworthy.  This is an irrelevant program and only reason he is continuing is because of who he is.  This season and all the double digit losses and yesterday's performance are so far from [CENSORED] acceptable. 

[texas tush hog]

Yup.  And wait til next year when the only returning players with significant playing time are CJ, Hall and Bailey - assuming that Gaff is gone.  Two small forwards and a combo guard who doesn't have great handles.  It's gonna be painful for a few years.  If CMA gets next year's team to the NCAA, then he earned it.  But he has not set himself up for success by not being able to recruit enough bigs, and allowing a team to be so sr. laden.  Hogs have to be projected last in the SEC next year.  Very last.

So if he wins 20 or more next year will all of you jump on the bandwagon?

[Atlhogfan1]

So if he wins 20 or more next year will all of you jump on the bandwagon?

Friend of Anderson we don't really give a darn about your deflections.  You are a reason we made this personal hire and in this situation. 

[texas tush hog]

Ask Alexa. 

It's sold out quite a few times though.  Every SEC Saturday game this year I believe. 

You arguing that attendance is low actually contradicts your original point though.  You said we won't fire Mike because everyone loves seeing him on the sidelines because it's CMA.  If they didn't care about it being mike, they wouldn't show up to the games.

My point exactly, as long as people spend money to come to the Bud, Mike is safe. Does anyone not remember the final Pel year when the average was about 4000 even against the good teams. Heath not much better. I wonder how much money his critcs on this board spend in an average year?

[Atlhogfan1]

My point exactly, as long as people spend money to come to the Bud, Mike is safe. Does anyone not remember the final Pel year when the average was about 4000 even against the good teams. Heath not much better. I wonder how much money his critcs on this board spend in an average year?

We avg less than 50% of BWA capacity in actual attendance in 2016 and 17 and Anderson got a damn extension. 

The money angle is having to pay Bielema buyout. 

[texas tush hog]

Friend of Anderson we don't really give a darn about your deflections.  You are a reason we made this personal hire and in this situation. 

Yes, I am proud to be  a friend and will be forever, even when he starts winning big time after next year.

[hogsanity]

...what the h3!! does that even mean?

It means that it is ranked 26th because it has 6 signees. None of them are that highly rated nationally, and none really address the issues this team has either.

[rzrbackramsfan]

My point exactly, as long as people spend money to come to the Bud, Mike is safe. Does anyone not remember the final Pel year when the average was about 4000 even against the good teams. Heath not much better. I wonder how much money his critcs on this board spend in an average year?

Yea and as long as Mike gives people a reason to come to games, people will keep coming to games.  See how that works?

[hamARchy in the USA]

A good new coach will walk across MA's ceiling.

[hogsanity]

Yea and as long as Mike gives people a reason to come to games, people will keep coming to games.  See how that works?

pretty HDNish right there. Does just enough to keep people excited, then yanks the rug out with an inexplicable loss in which the team looks unprepared and unmotivated.

[hamARchy in the USA]

pretty HDNish right there. Does just enough to keep people excited, then yanks the rug out with an inexplicable loss in which the team looks unprepared and unmotivated.

Lots of parallels with HDN.  Hopefully the MA era will end before the planes and banners.

[Pumbaa]

Mike hasn't done darn at Arkansas noteworthy.  This is an irrelevant program and only reason he is continuing is because of who he is.  This season and all the double digit losses and yesterday's performance are so far from [CENSORED] acceptable.

He has gotten us out of the hole Pel put us in. He has one of the best road records in the conference the last few years. Finishing at the top end of the conference most years. I want to be super competitive and win a National Championship as much as anyone else but I certainly don't want to go back to what we had before. Mike has upped what we expect out of the program and that is a good thing. Hopefully he continues the trend.