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Author Topic: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for  (Read 2322 times)

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phadedhawg

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #50 on: October 22, 2017, 12:00:37 am »

When I first got wind of the new 3-4 defense, my first thought was..."The SEC RB's are going to get three yards of momentum, and our LB's are just going to grab ahold and get drug for 3 more.  I was wrong...it's closer to 5 more, and sometimes they don't even slow them down very much.

Maybe it would be worse if we went back to a 4-3, who knows?  I just know that we have no hope of beating anyone with even a half decent running game, because we are just getting destroyed.  Was I the only one who watched that game thinking, "Why is Auburn even throwing the ball at all?"   ???

Seems like we've been hurting for linebackers more often than not the last several season
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hogsanity

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #51 on: October 22, 2017, 12:01:46 am »

When I first got wind of the new 3-4 defense, my first thought was..."The SEC RB's are going to get three yards of momentum, and our LB's are just going to grab ahold and get drug for 3 more.  I was wrong...it's closer to 5 more, and sometimes they don't even slow them down very much.

Maybe it would be worse if we went back to a 4-3, who knows?  I just know that we have no hope of beating anyone with even a half decent running game, because we are just getting destroyed.  Was I the only one who watched that game thinking, "Why is Auburn even throwing the ball at all?"   ???

I told someone last week Aub could win by 21 without passing 1 time. If they wanted to they could have run their big back for 300+ yards.
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RazorbacksFTW

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #52 on: October 22, 2017, 12:02:06 am »

So the talent level of the coach matters, but the talent level of the players does not? That makes no sense at all.

What makes no sense is you saying I said player talent doesn't matter when I really said it does not matter as much as you shills/you pretend it does.

Coaching and player talent are equally important and it's Bert's job to make sure we get the talent you are crying about.

So if we lack enough talented players then who's fault is it again?
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jcul28

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #53 on: October 22, 2017, 12:03:33 am »

Ragnow, CK(a lot of schools would love to have him) Whaley, Hayden, Martin, Patton, Tolliver, Agin, Nance, Santos. Iím sure there are plenty that would take Curl. You canít judge all of these performances on the kids. Again, if you know football, heck, sports in general, you should know you do what youíre taught, you do what youíre told. These kids are doing that. Sure, they will make mistakes but I promise you, they arenít out of position because they are not ďathleticĒ or ďskilledĒ. They run the scheme presented to them.
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Hogvillage Idiot

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #54 on: October 22, 2017, 12:06:58 am »

Ragnow, CK(a lot of schools would love to have him) Whaley, Hayden, Martin, Patton, Tolliver, Agin, Nance, Santos. Iím sure there are plenty that would take Curl. You canít judge all of these performances on the kids. Again, if you know football, heck, sports in general, you should know you do what youíre taught, you do what youíre told. These kids are doing that. Sure, they will make mistakes but I promise you, they arenít out of position because they are not ďathleticĒ or ďskilledĒ. They run the scheme presented to them.
This argument would support that a junior high team can compete on D-1 level as long as they are "taught" right.
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hogsanity

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #55 on: October 22, 2017, 12:10:48 am »

This argument would support that a junior high team can compete on D-1 level as long as they are "taught" right.

That's been a theme here all year, some posters think if the players just want it badly enough they can overcome an speed or size differences. They say that because they are realizing the hogs are NEVER going to have the talent that Bama,LSU, A&M, and AUb get.

The Hog football team looks exactly like a AR HS football team when compared to HS teams in surrounding states in similar classifications, small and slow.
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Mo_Better_Hogs

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #56 on: October 22, 2017, 12:23:18 am »

I'll generalize. 2 (max) on defense, but I think Curl could be All-SEC next year. And 3 to 4 on offense, including Ragnow. The others could be another lineman or TE, and maybe David Williams. The hard part is that things are so bad for us right now, how can we tell who is really skilled (individually)??
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #57 on: October 22, 2017, 12:25:54 am »

Seems like we've been hurting for linebackers more often than not the last several season

Spaight was a beast, and he's the only true SEC caliber LB we've had in forever.  I don't know why we've struggled as much as we have with recruiting that position, but it's been a bugaboo for a long time. 
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phadedhawg

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #58 on: October 22, 2017, 12:26:20 am »

I'll generalize. 2 (max) on defense, but I think Curl could be All-SEC next year. And 3 to 4 on offense, including Ragnow. The others could be another lineman or TE, and maybe David Williams. The hard part is that things are so bad for us right now, how can we tell who is really skilled (individually)??

One of our running backs maybe, if they had someone to block for them.  After all these games where we randomly feed them into a buzz saw they are a bit wrecked.  If they weren't being rammed into the SEC belt sanders one of them might be All SEC.
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hogsanity

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #59 on: October 22, 2017, 12:29:01 am »

One of our running backs maybe, if they had someone to block for them.  After all these games where we randomly feed them into a buzz saw they are a bit wrecked.  If they weren't being rammed into the SEC belt sanders one of them might be All SEC.

None of them have the speed for that. Even Hayden, supposedly the speedster, broke into open field twice tonight and got chased down from behind, the 2nd time in a straight run, no angle at all.

But in all this, only 1 OL and only 1 DL and no lb's.
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atom hog

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #60 on: October 22, 2017, 12:40:34 am »

No player development, poor conditioning (and its freak foot injuries), and personnel mismanagement (is TJ Hammonds still on the team?) are just tip of the iceberg problems. But thankfully, these are all correctable with a new coaching staff.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #61 on: October 22, 2017, 12:41:03 am »

None of them have the speed for that. Even Hayden, supposedly the speedster, broke into open field twice tonight and got chased down from behind, the 2nd time in a straight run, no angle at all.

But in all this, only 1 OL and only 1 DL and no lb's.

At times I think we have some talent at WR.  But when you watch the game live, you see that they get zero separation on any type of man coverage.  Everyone is complaining about our QB holding the ball, but at times it takes our WR's 2 seconds just to get 5 yards from the LOS, because they just get manhandled by the DB's.  About the only time we complete a pass is when it's a long yardage situation, and the defense plays zone. 

I want to be clear...that's ALL on BB and his recruiting.  I don't know where the train went off the rails, but for a guy who has always billed himself as wanting a physical, punishing football team, that is absolutely not what we have on the field. 

Ironically, if you gave our team to Malzahn, I think we would be much more competitive, simply because he would find ways to use our talent on offense like he did at ASU.  I also think BB would probably do really well with Auburn's talent, because they are big and bruising and he wouldn't mess with the finesse aspect at all.  He would just maximize the straight ahead advantage they have with their O-line and RB's, hold the ball, and wear people down. 
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Mo_Better_Hogs

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #62 on: October 22, 2017, 12:41:16 am »

None of them have the speed for that. Even Hayden, supposedly the speedster, broke into open field twice tonight and got chased down from behind, the 2nd time in a straight run, no angle at all.

But in all this, only 1 OL and only 1 DL and no lb's.

For RBs, that's why I said David Williams. He's got some speed and power. Don't know his stats/ypc, it's more just instinct that's making me say that.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #63 on: October 22, 2017, 12:45:19 am »

For RBs, that's why I said David Williams. He's got some speed and power. Don't know his stats/ypc, it's more just instinct that's making me say that.

Only one with NFL potential, because of his size and ability to fall forward most of the time.  The others could probably be a specialty 3rd down back, but after some of the things I saw tonight, I'm not sure any of them have the speed for the NFL.   :(
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hogsanity

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #64 on: October 22, 2017, 12:47:34 am »

At times I think we have some talent at WR.  But when you watch the game live, you see that they get zero separation on any type of man coverage.  Everyone is complaining about our QB holding the ball, but at times it takes our WR's 2 seconds just to get 5 yards from the LOS, because they just get manhandled by the DB's.  About the only time we complete a pass is when it's a long yardage situation, and the defense plays zone. 

I want to be clear...that's ALL on BB and his recruiting.  I don't know where the train went off the rails, but for a guy who has always billed himself as wanting a physical, punishing football team, that is absolutely not what we have on the field. 

Ironically, if you gave our team to Malzahn, I think we would be much more competitive, simply because he would find ways to use our talent on offense like he did at ASU.  I also think BB would probably do really well with Auburn's talent, because they are big and bruising and he wouldn't mess with the finesse aspect at all.  He would just maximize the straight ahead advantage they have with their O-line and RB's, hold the ball, and wear people down. 

I think the issue with BB is the same issue the program faced after joining the SEC, neither had any concept of how hard it was going to be to recruit SEC level talent, in sufficient numbers, to the UofA.

The type of players BB needed to run his style at Wisc abound in the midwest. Tons of good linemen. Team speed is usually not as great so the LBs ted to be bigger and more physical but not as fast as what is found on better sec teams.

Bee wondering that on the wr's. We keep hearing the D is putting 8 in the box, yet our WR's can not seem to get open at all.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #65 on: October 22, 2017, 01:28:18 am »

I think the issue with BB is the same issue the program faced after joining the SEC, neither had any concept of how hard it was going to be to recruit SEC level talent, in sufficient numbers, to the UofA.

The type of players BB needed to run his style at Wisc abound in the midwest. Tons of good linemen. Team speed is usually not as great so the LBs ted to be bigger and more physical but not as fast as what is found on better sec teams.

Bee wondering that on the wr's. We keep hearing the D is putting 8 in the box, yet our WR's can not seem to get open at all.

You have to see it live to see the WR issues.  And I completely agree on the talent situation.  BB's a confident guy, and he had confidence that the system he had in place at UW would work here, and he was brash enough to think Arkansas was probably not living up to its potential...and he would change that  Ooops. 

I will say this...outside of his stubborness on short yardage, we have not done what many fans claimed we would do, which was try beat Bama and LSU at their own game  Enos has turned us into more of a passing team than a running team in many regards, and at least we've had sufficient variety to be effective.  Those who are still using the "three yards and a cloud of dust" argument haven't been paying attention.   

What is confounding is...that BB will continue to say "we're close."  I don't see that at all.  We're not executing well, making horrible mistakes repeatedly, small, slow, and certainly not taking advantage of the talent that we do have on the team very well.  I think saying that they have a lot of work to do and need to roll their sleeves up and work even harder is much closer to the real story, and I find it hard to believe he doesn't see that.  Maybe he's so engaged that he can't see the forest for the trees??   ???

Years 1 and 2, if I saw the talent we have out there now, I would be cautiously optimistic.  We could put on some size, work on speed and agility, gel on the O and D lines and get more cohesive, and Kelley could develop into a really good QB.  BUT IN YEAR 5...I can't bring myself to look at it objectively, or to see it as anything but a big fail to field a team that looks like that. 
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orvillesghost

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #66 on: October 22, 2017, 03:17:09 am »

Recruiting has been about the same at Arkansas no matter who was the head coach.

its good enough for a range of six to eight wins a lot of years, maybe reach 10 once about every 10 years

I seriously doubt we will ever recruit better at Arkansas no matter who the coach is.

But its time to make a change regardless
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IronHog

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #67 on: October 22, 2017, 07:22:53 am »

For those saying it s not a talent issue, then it should be easy for you to list the players in the Hogs starting 22 that would start for any other secw team.

And just to be clear, BB has shown he is not a sec coach, but he is not why our players are continually out run and out physicaled ( is that a word ).


For starters S and C is horrible.  Also this staff plays favorites.


If you think there are better athletes out there than guys like Bell and Gragg you are wrong.....it's just this staff buries guys like that.


I told y'all over and over the Korless Marshall thing was a bad trend setter.......
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IronHog

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #68 on: October 22, 2017, 07:25:35 am »

Recruiting has been about the same at Arkansas no matter who was the head coach.

its good enough for a range of six to eight wins a lot of years, maybe reach 10 once about every 10 years

I seriously doubt we will ever recruit better at Arkansas no matter who the coach is.

But its time to make a change regardless

Wise couldn't do much under this staff but he can terrorize NFL tackles?


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hawgbawb

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #69 on: October 22, 2017, 07:32:47 am »

Bama, LSU, Auburn,  Ga, Fla, or even Tn, Om or MSU?  I think 3 at most. Ragnow, Agim and maybe Tolliver.

Hogs arw trying to play Sec football without SEC players or an Sec Hc.
Only Ragnow would start for Bama.
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tophawg19

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #70 on: October 22, 2017, 07:33:49 am »

How many of Hogs' starting 22 would look completely different if they had some proper coaching?
This is the correct answer . remember many were recruited by other SEC teams , Guys like Greenlaw and Scoota Harris could play for most teams . Curl as well , he just needs better coaching . Bijon was also highly recruited. What we need is better coaching and better strength and Conditioning training
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hawgbawb

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #71 on: October 22, 2017, 07:35:49 am »

I don't buy the recruiting/talent angle. That would mean that we should beat the teams that are less talented (at least on paper) than us handily (Toledo) and we should be able to compete with the teams that recruit at our level (Like S. Carolina) but we can't. We past few years we had a defense that was worse than many Sunbelt/Conf-USA teams. Its not on the kids, its on the coaching and development.
South Carolina HAS out-recruited us.
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Temprees

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #72 on: October 22, 2017, 07:37:19 am »

Ragnow and Agim...that's it...all of the others would be on the scout squad except for the Curl kid...he's just a freshman and he can play...by the time he's a junior he'll be as good as there is in the SEC at his position
Curl doesn't have the speed to be a great corner. He gets beat a lot, and that's why he grabs and holds so much. He's playing out of position though. He would be a great safety.  He had never played corner before he got to Arkansas. He was a safety in high school.  So, why doesn't he play safety for us, should be the question. Our safety play has been mediocre for the last 3 seasons. But we keep rolling out the same two guys.
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tophawg19

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #73 on: October 22, 2017, 07:38:48 am »

For those saying it s not a talent issue, then it should be easy for you to list the players in the Hogs starting 22 that would start for any other secw team.

And just to be clear, BB has shown he is not a sec coach, but he is not why our players are continually out run and out physicaled ( is that a word ).
Try looking to see who recruited them in the first place . It's not talent , it's poor coaching and conditioning
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golf2day

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #74 on: October 22, 2017, 08:01:11 am »

Curl doesn't have the speed to be a great corner. He gets beat a lot, and that's why he grabs and holds so much. He's playing out of position though. He would be a great safety.  He had never played corner before he got to Arkansas. He was a safety in high school.  So, why doesn't he play safety for us, should be the question. Our safety play has been mediocre for the last 3 seasons. But we keep rolling out the same two guys.
He very well may be a good safety, but I think heís plenty fast to play corner. I donít know what his times 40 is, but I know that some athletes just seem to get faster when the lights come on and the pads go on.

I donít see him getting smoked deep, I mean just burned, hardly ever. And heís been tested a ton. If he was slow he would constantly get beat beat, and that certainly doesnít happen.

 Dback coaches all over the country teach their kids to use their hands on the receiver just up to the edge of a flag. The times that Iíve seen him get penalized it looked like he just crossed the line some and got caught. I havenít seen him just get burnt and have to grab the guy.

This kid is a superb talent, and if he continues to develop he could go down as an all-time great hog dback.
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Bacons Rebellion

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #75 on: October 22, 2017, 08:06:03 am »

Bama, LSU, Auburn,  Ga, Fla, or even Tn, Om or MSU?  I think 3 at most. Ragnow, Agim and maybe Tolliver.

Hogs arw trying to play Sec football without SEC players or an Sec Hc.

Once you include Mississippi, Tennessee and MSU, more than that.

Allen, Jackson, Nance, Harris. Greenlaw, although he doesn't seem to be what he was before his injuries. Some of our tight ends, if the school started tight ends. Also Pulley and Cornelius. Curl is a freshman starting because of injury. A lot of folks would take him. It's hard to say about our offensive line. They're so bad as a unit, but it might be some of the individuals not fit for our scheme and would look fine somewhere else.

You're basic point is correct though. If we expect to beat a school, we should expect more than half of our players to be able to start for that school. We are well short of that.
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AP85

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #76 on: October 22, 2017, 08:07:39 am »

I think the weevils May give them a run for their money.
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Temprees

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #77 on: October 22, 2017, 08:29:41 am »

He very well may be a good safety, but I think heís plenty fast to play corner. I donít know what his times 40 is, but I know that some athletes just seem to get faster when the lights come on and the pads go on.

I donít see him getting smoked deep, I mean just burned, hardly ever. And heís been tested a ton. If he was slow he would constantly get beat beat, and that certainly doesnít happen.

 Dback coaches all over the country teach their kids to use their hands on the receiver just up to the edge of a flag. The times that Iíve seen him get penalized it looked like he just crossed the line some and got caught. I havenít seen him just get burnt and have to grab the guy.

This kid is a superb talent, and if he continues to develop he could go down as an all-time great hog dback.
You must be watching from home. He gets beat on the regular and often. Sometimes the ball is under thrown and he catches up.  Other times that he is beaten, the ball is thrown to other receivers.  BTW, I didn't say that he was slow.  I said that he didn't have the speed to be a great corner. 

Using your hand is one thing, but grabbing a receivers jersey and running while holding the jersey is not taught by and decent dback coaches that I know of.  Curl could be a really good safety, but not so at cornrer.
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Letsroll1200

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #78 on: October 22, 2017, 08:37:01 am »

You must be watching from home. He gets beat on the regular and often. Sometimes the ball is under thrown and he catches up.  Other times that he is beaten, the ball is thrown to other receivers.  BTW, I didn't say that he was slow.  I said that he didn't have the speed to be a great corner. 

Using your hand is one thing, but grabbing a receivers jersey and running while holding the jersey is not taught by and decent dback coaches that I know of.  Curl could be a really good safety, but not so at cornrer.

Curl has been a bright spot this year. What games are you watching? He's made tackles and competed against the best wide receivers. We need more guys like Curl.
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Arthur pigby sellers.

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #79 on: October 22, 2017, 08:45:00 am »

We have multiple players on offense who could find a spot with other SEC teams. We change up our OL weekly and the players havenít had time to gel or learn their assignments properly.  Wallace was recruited by everyone in the country as was Ragnow.  We offered Colton Jackson very early in the process.  Pittman obviously saw something he liked in him. We have several 4 stars sitting on the bench. Zach Rogers had multiple offers. Raulerson was getting some PT at UT prior to his transfer here. All of our TE were very highly recruited. AA started out as a great QB last year until he was pummeled into regression and injuries by the inept OL.  Our RB are all 4 stars who have good moves but never have open creases. I believe all of our offensive woes go back to complete mismanagement of our OL by Anderson. Itís ruined our entire offense and kept our weak defense on the field too long exposing their weaknesses.
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LRHawg

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #80 on: October 22, 2017, 08:52:51 am »

We have I think, 16 players with Bama offers. It's Coaching that has us 0 for in the SEC.
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hawgbawb

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #81 on: October 22, 2017, 08:59:21 am »

We have to figure out how to recruit better. There are of course exceptions, but most 3 star athletes in the SEC are going to lose one-on-one battles.

Coaching DOES matter, but you have to have good coaching AND good recruiting AND a little luck to win SEC championships.
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LJHOG

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #82 on: October 22, 2017, 09:18:14 am »

Stop kidding yourselves.  We have middle of the pack Sun Belt talent.
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sigpooie

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #83 on: October 22, 2017, 11:31:32 am »

Jimmy johnson, barry, bear, holtz, hatfield, petrino, majors, malzahn,  kelly, anyone of these guys would win 9 games with these kids. They would have been prepared to play, they would have exacted they best qualities of the players given them, an would have won hard fought close games. It's time to go back to the future of arkansas football.  It's time and long should not have anything to do with the mess we have to fix.
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LAGNAF

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #84 on: October 22, 2017, 11:53:50 am »

If it's all about talent then someone explain why Florida State is 2-4 when they have had a top 6 recruiting class since 2014.

Also someone care to explain why Louisville just beat Florida State with vastly inferior talent?

It's a coaching problem not a talent problem and op is an obvious shill.



So youíre saying Jimbo cant coach?
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #85 on: October 22, 2017, 02:09:29 pm »

Bama, LSU, Auburn,  Ga, Fla, or even Tn, Om or MSU?  I think 3 at most. Ragnow, Agim and maybe Tolliver.

Hogs arw trying to play Sec football without SEC players or an Sec Hc.
The Hogs have the same talent level they've always had. Pretty good, not great.
Lots of 3-star guys, some 4-stars, maybe a 5-star or two.
It wasn't any different in 2010 or 2011.
It wasn't any different in 2006 or 2007.

They just aren't well coached right now.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #86 on: October 22, 2017, 02:13:40 pm »

There's no getting past poor recruiting no matter who's the coach.  Bert or his staff are looking for the wrong attributes
I'm in my middle-aged years.
The recruiting rankings have not changed a flip since I've been alive.
It's always ranked anywhere from 20-40, with an occasional blip.

So it all depends on the coach being smart enough to do more with less.

Been saying this forever. It takes an elite coach to win big here.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #87 on: October 22, 2017, 02:16:58 pm »

Yep, Auburn, Alabama, LSU, A&M, and to a lesser extent TCU, make our bigs looks small and/or our fasts look slow.
TCU is a good example.
They will never have a great recruiting class.
They will never out-talent the big boys.
But they have a great coach. That equalizes things quite a bit.

What we were doing in 2010-11 is similar to what TCU is doing. Take some good talent and combine with great coaching, and you can do things.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #88 on: October 22, 2017, 02:18:21 pm »

The Hogs have the same talent level they've always had. Pretty good, not great.
Lots of 3-star guys, some 4-stars, maybe a 5-star or two.
It wasn't any different in 2010 or 2011.
It wasn't any different in 2006 or 2007.

They just aren't well coached right now.

Agreed, but I think what may be just as big of a part of it is that he's not recruiting players that match what he's always professed to want to do from a style perspective.  Was I the only one who noticed that we were seemingly a head shorter and 30 lbs lighter than virtually every Auburn player on the field?  It seemed to be even more drastic than it was against Bama.  Maybe seeing it live just made it stand out more...not sure, but man....it was literally one of those instances where I was watching warmups and thought..."Man, we're going to get run over."  It didn't take a rocket scientist falling off the turnip truck to see what was about to happen.

If you're about recruiting kids that are family oriented, intelligent, with clean noses....then don't try to make it out to be that they can't be coached.  If you're recruiting "uncommon" young men, then there's very little excuse for not being able to coach them any better than what we're seeing from the O-line.  Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.   
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #89 on: October 22, 2017, 02:31:11 pm »

I'm in my middle-aged years.
The recruiting rankings have not changed a flip since I've been alive.
It's always ranked anywhere from 20-40, with an occasional blip.

So it all depends on the coach being smart enough to do more with less.

Been saying this forever. It takes an elite coach to win big here.

I still think a big part of it is having an experienced team with upper classmen that are developed, which helps make up the recruiting deficit that we are always facing.  From there, it's still a matter of some diamonds in the rough that make a difference, and that's probably as much about luck as anything else.  I think a lot of people knew how incredible DMAC was going to be in college, but I don't think many knew that Knile Davis would be that much of a difference maker.  Matt Jones pretty well single handedly saved HDN's job for 4-5 years, and I'm still convinced that minus the injuries at QB, Nutt would have had him at WR...or he would have transferred out to play QB somewhere else. 

The 98 team was just full of salty veterans with tons of experience, and let's be honest about it...the SEC West was NOTHING like what it is now. 

And even though some people still refuse to acknowledge it, CBP did benefit from an unsual crop of in-state talent.  He gets full credit for flipping their commitments, getting them on campus, and coaching them well...but take those kids off the team, and no way we are what we were in 2010 and 2011.  He also got a little lucky with Mallet when the coaching changes hit UM. 

Point being...we need more than just an elite coach.  We still need to have some difference makers on the field at key positions, which makes it doubly hard to get all of that out there on the field at one time.  BUT NO DOUBT that having a coach that can get the absolutely most out of the talent available is a HUGE factor in us jumping up to that 9-10 win season level. 

I just REFUSE to believe that we shouldn't be better than Miss State minus the occasional blip.  That team is my barometer.  Starkville can't offer a single thing better than FV.   
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hogsanity

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #90 on: October 22, 2017, 03:14:02 pm »


I just REFUSE to believe that we shouldn't be better than Miss State minus the occasional blip.  That team is my barometer.  Starkville can't offer a single thing better than FV.   


But it is in a state that produces almost 4 times the # of p5 signees than does Arkansas. Also, and this is something overlooked, what type of high level recruits come from AR? Almost no DL, LB's. Almost all anymore are skill position players. Miss/Bama/LA/GA/FLA still produce alot of dl, lb, cb talent.

The Hogs roster is at least 50% in state kids and the team resembles a AR HS team when compared to the surrounding states - small & slow.
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Letsroll1200

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #91 on: October 22, 2017, 04:37:28 pm »

But it is in a state that produces almost 4 times the # of p5 signees than does Arkansas. Also, and this is something overlooked, what type of high level recruits come from AR? Almost no DL, LB's. Almost all anymore are skill position players. Miss/Bama/LA/GA/FLA still produce alot of dl, lb, cb talent.

The Hogs roster is at least 50% in state kids and the team resembles a AR HS team when compared to the surrounding states - small & slow.

Arkansas best defensive lineman is from Arkansas. How did Nutt get it done. He recruited dogs on defense. Carver, Sam O, Bua, Petty, and Miller. Thats just at linebacker. I couldn't imagine those players layibg down.

The secondary and dline had sone guys during Nutt years. This team is a relection of the coach. No passion.
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hogfan870

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #92 on: October 22, 2017, 04:55:15 pm »

I still think a big part of it is having an experienced team with upper classmen that are developed, which helps make up the recruiting deficit that we are always facing.  From there, it's still a matter of some diamonds in the rough that make a difference, and that's probably as much about luck as anything else.  I think a lot of people knew how incredible DMAC was going to be in college, but I don't think many knew that Knile Davis would be that much of a difference maker.  Matt Jones pretty well single handedly saved HDN's job for 4-5 years, and I'm still convinced that minus the injuries at QB, Nutt would have had him at WR...or he would have transferred out to play QB somewhere else. 

The 98 team was just full of salty veterans with tons of experience, and let's be honest about it...the SEC West was NOTHING like what it is now. 

And even though some people still refuse to acknowledge it, CBP did benefit from an unsual crop of in-state talent.  He gets full credit for flipping their commitments, getting them on campus, and coaching them well...but take those kids off the team, and no way we are what we were in 2010 and 2011.  He also got a little lucky with Mallet when the coaching changes hit UM. 

Point being...we need more than just an elite coach.  We still need to have some difference makers on the field at key positions, which makes it doubly hard to get all of that out there on the field at one time.  BUT NO DOUBT that having a coach that can get the absolutely most out of the talent available is a HUGE factor in us jumping up to that 9-10 win season level. 

I just REFUSE to believe that we shouldn't be better than Miss State minus the occasional blip.  That team is my barometer.  Starkville can't offer a single thing better than FV.   

And if Petrino were here now you would probably be saying how he benefitted from an unusual crop of high school talent, it would just be KJ Hill, Chris Gragg, and TJ Hammonds, and maybe a couple of these other WRs that he would have turned into stars - by developing schemes and teaching them so we end up with open receivers.  We have talent, we just aren't using it.
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Hoginsavga

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #93 on: October 22, 2017, 08:07:41 pm »

At times I think we have some talent at WR.  But when you watch the game live, you see that they get zero separation on any type of man coverage.  Everyone is complaining about our QB holding the ball, but at times it takes our WR's 2 seconds just to get 5 yards from the LOS, because they just get manhandled by the DB's.  About the only time we complete a pass is when it's a long yardage situation, and the defense plays zone. 

I want to be clear...that's ALL on BB and his recruiting.  I don't know where the train went off the rails, but for a guy who has always billed himself as wanting a physical, punishing football team, that is absolutely not what we have on the field. 

Ironically, if you gave our team to Malzahn, I think we would be much more competitive, simply because he would find ways to use our talent on offense like he did at ASU.  I also think BB would probably do really well with Auburn's talent, because they are big and bruising and he wouldn't mess with the finesse aspect at all.  He would just maximize the straight ahead advantage they have with their O-line and RB's, hold the ball, and wear people down.
.

From 1992 through 2012 the Auburn/Arkansas series was tied at 10 wins each with 1 tie. Year 2013 was when Gus and Bret got their current head coaching job. Auburn(Gus) leads Arkansas (Bret) with 4 wins and 1 loss. So is Gus the better coach or does he have better recruits? Neither university has changed locations since 1992 but all of a sudden in 2013 Auburn became a much better program.

Supposedly Auburn has always outrecruited Arkansas but for the period 1992 through 2012 or 21 years this talent disparity didnít show up on the field.
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HiggiePiggy

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #94 on: October 22, 2017, 08:24:49 pm »

.

From 1992 through 2012 the Auburn/Arkansas series was tied at 10 wins each with 1 tie. Year 2013 was when Gus and Bret got their current head coaching job. Auburn(Gus) leads Arkansas (Bret) with 4 wins and 1 loss. So is Gus the better coach or does he have better recruits? Neither university has changed locations since 1992 but all of a sudden in 2013 Auburn became a much better program.

Supposedly Auburn has always outrecruited Arkansas but for the period 1992 through 2012 or 21 years this talent disparity didnít show up on the field.


Itís like Alabama before Saban.  We were pretty close to even as far as wins and losses went. 
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Hoginsavga

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #95 on: October 22, 2017, 08:52:12 pm »

Itís like Alabama before Saban.  We were pretty close to even as far as wins and losses went.

Yes, coaches are the ones that make it happen.
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HiggiePiggy

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #96 on: October 22, 2017, 09:17:22 pm »

Yes, coaches are the ones that make it happen.

Oh I agree. This is what happens when we get bad coaching. It is all of a sudden because our recruiting is very bad.  No it isnít great, but itís always been about the same since joining the SEC. It feels like it sucks because we have very poor coaching. 
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DoubleReedHawgCaller

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #97 on: October 22, 2017, 09:30:59 pm »

How many of our guys were offered by these other schools? That should tell you where the majority of the problem lies. Herb is making some of these guys too big and slow also.
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kodiakisland

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #98 on: October 22, 2017, 09:34:10 pm »

Coaching ain't worth spit but we don't stack up well against big boys physically.  We have some pieces but we are missing a line on both sides of the ball

That's a bunch of BS.  I lived on the Air Force Academy for 4 years and made almost every home game.  Rarely was Air Force equal to the talent on the other side.  Most times they were way over matched.  They won almost every one of those games because of coaching.  They were well coached, better conditioned, used perfect technique, and rarely made mistakes.  Coaching matters.
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Vantage 8 dude

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Re: How many of the hog starting 22 would start for
« Reply #99 on: October 22, 2017, 11:45:51 pm »

Bama, LSU, Auburn,  Ga, Fla, or even Tn, Om or MSU?  I think 3 at most. Ragnow, Agim and maybe Tolliver.

Hogs arw trying to play Sec football without SEC players or an Sec Hc.
Of course you're assuming I suppose that unlike last night's disaster when we only had nine defensive players on the field that we're actually playing our full complement of players on each side. Think that would be a great start before we even begin speculating who might be able to play for other SEC teams.
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