Cheating in college hoops

[Like it is]

I've watched college hoops for a long time and the more I think about it,  I truly believe there is more and more crooks in the college game.. Let's look at  our conference for a second . No way Ben Howland @ Miss St can get the ones he's got coming in.. Look at Bruce Pearl @ Auburn. He's got some studs coming to the Plains! I also believe something went on at Kentucky with Cal to get Monk late. Forget Arkansas missing out! Bill Self @ Kansas didn't even stand a chance ! There just aren't many Coach K's, Tom Izzo's , Lon Kreuger's, or Bill Self's in the world much any more! Unless you're one of these guys, it seems you've gotta cheat to win ! It's a damn shame!

[userpick]

Hell, ain't that something!

[Wild Bill Hog]

Well, that makes me feel much better.   

[Like it is]

Your point ?

[MountieDawg]

I've watched college hoops for a long time and the more I think about it,  I truly believe there is more and more crooks in the college game.. Let's look at  our conference for a second . No way Ben Howland @ Miss St can get the ones he's got coming in.. Look at Bruce Pearl @ Auburn. He's got some studs coming to the Plains! I also believe something went on at Kentucky with Cal to get Monk late. Forget Arkansas missing out! Bill Self @ Kansas didn't even stand a chance ! There just aren't many Coach K's, Tom Izzo's , Lon Kreuger's, or Bill Self's in the world much any more! Unless you're one of these guys, it seems you've gotta cheat to win ! It's a damn shame!

HILARIOUS!!!!  SO Coach K can get good players at a super hard academic school without cheating and the winningest program of all time and 4 final fours in the last 5 year cannot do it without cheating.... 

[Like it is]

That makes me feel much better !!

[Like it is]

Are in telling me that Coach K doesn't cheat ? If u think he rides that straight line, you're, fooling yourself !
CHEATERS ARE SKUNKS!
Larry Brown
Kelvin Sampson
Want me to continue?

[Like it is]

I meant Coach Cal.. Not Coach K

[urkillnmesmalls]

Everyone knows Cal is cheating.  He's always cheated.  Going to KY didn't change that zebra's stripes.  But this KY team isn't that great, despite the cheating.   

Coming up pretty soon, we're going to feel even worse about that loss tonight.  Kentucky will get throttled by Kansas.  Guys, we got manhandled at home tonight, and Kentucky isn't even that good.  We just played horribly, and we're not very good.  Yes, the refs stunk and missed some calls, but that didn't cost us the game. 

[userpick]

Everyone knows Cal is cheating.  He's always cheated.  Going to KY didn't change that zebra's stripes.  But this KY team isn't that great, despite the cheating.   

Coming up pretty soon, we're going to feel even worse about that loss tonight.  Kentucky will get throttled by Kansas.  Guys, we got manhandled at home tonight, and Kentucky isn't even that good.  We just played horribly, and we're not very good.  Yes, the refs stunk and missed some calls, but that didn't cost us the game. 

I agree. Kentucky just got beat to freakin Auburn and got drilled at lsu. It's time to either accept being mediocre or clean house...again. Maybe one day we will get it right.

[urkillnmesmalls]

I agree. Kentucky just got beat to freakin Auburn and got drilled at lsu. It's time to either accept being mediocre or clean house...again. Maybe one day we will get it right.

Too invested to clean house until it's obvious the talent isn't coming, and we can't get back to the top of the SEC (which really isn't saying a lot at the moment, but with the current crop of coaches...will get much harder moving forward). 

The discouraging part is, we had a decent team last year, but sadly...that didn't translate into more success with recruiting.  I think he'll get 2 more years to see signs of whether or not this is going to trend upward over the long haul, but that's it.  If like Nolan, he really believes he can win with kids who can play his system, whether they are heralded or not, is really true...then he needs to prove that soon, or BWA will be a ghost town.  Well....more of a ghost town.     

[Hog Solo]

I agree. Kentucky just got beat to freakin Auburn and got drilled at lsu. It's time to either accept being mediocre or clean house...again. Maybe one day we will get it right.

Umm.. So you want to cheat to be good?  No thanks

[Sharky]

Too invested to clean house until it's obvious the talent isn't coming, and we can't get back to the top of the SEC (which really isn't saying a lot at the moment, but with the current crop of coaches...will get much harder moving forward). 

The discouraging part is, we had a decent team last year, but sadly...that didn't translate into more success with recruiting.  I think he'll get 2 more years to see signs of whether or not this is going to trend upward over the long haul, but that's it.  If like Nolan, he really believes he can win with kids who can play his system, whether they are heralded or not, is really true...then he needs to prove that soon, or BWA will be a ghost town.  Well....more of a ghost town.     

Makes me think CMA thought BP and MQ would stay.

[userpick]

Umm.. So you want to cheat to be good?  No thanks

Have fun with a .500 basketball program, Jeff Long.

[NuttinItUp]

"If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying"
-Joe Montana

[Hog Solo]

Have fun with a .500 basketball program, Jeff Long.

Your solution is to cheat to get players? No thanks Bernie madoff.

[userpick]

Your solution is to cheat to get players? No thanks Bernie madoff.

He also lived like a king for a long time. Give me 10 years of excellence and then penalize me later. But hey, our goal can still be 100% graduation rate and lose heartbreakers to powerhouses like Mercer.

[Karma]

He also lived like a king for a long time. Give me 10 years of excellence and then penalize me later. But hey, our goal can still be 100% graduation rate and lose heartbreakers to powerhouses like Mercer.

Probably not a good example for you. Madoff stole the life savings of many people. 

[userpick]

Impressive. A bigger low life than Madoff himself. You should maybe read up on him sometime. He doesn't agree with you.

I appreciate the compliment!

[userpick]

Probably not a good example for you. Madoff stole the life savings of many people. 

I wasn't the one who compared cheating in college basketball to scamming people out of life savings.

[MountieDawg]

If you were a basketball standout and a coach tells you this:

Play at my school and you will play in front of packed house at home and on the road or you could stay home in play in less than half full arenas at home and on the road.

Play at my school and get for Final Fours in 5 years or stay home and go to 1 NCAAT in 5 years.

I could go on, but it would seem more likely cheating happened if the kid chose his home state school. If your home state had an airline that crashed once in every 20 flights and costs twice as much as ABC carrier with a perfect safety rating who would you fly with?

[donkey]

I'm sure we ALREADY do stuff that's not above board.  The point is that if our coaches can't recruit better kids, we're going to be a cellar team in 2 years. 

A TON of teams are doing it now.  Auburn, Mississippi state, Florida, Memphis, Baylor, SMU (currently in 'trouble' though you can hardly tell), LSU, etc.  The NCAA is a complete paper tiger in terms of enforcement.  With current technology, they can't prove anything. 

And what happens if you do get caught?  1 or 2 year postseason ban?  We've made the postseason like 5 times in 16 years.  Cheating will penalize us less than supposedly not cheating is already penalizing us.

If Anderson doesn't hire an assistant like a Jerome Tang or Rick Stansbury then he doesn't have the stomach to win in college basketball in 2016.  Simple as that.

[majp51]

I've watched college hoops for a long time and the more I think about it,  I truly believe there is more and more crooks in the college game.. Let's look at  our conference for a second . No way Ben Howland @ Miss St can get the ones he's got coming in.. Look at Bruce Pearl @ Auburn. He's got some studs coming to the Plains! I also believe something went on at Kentucky with Cal to get Monk late. Forget Arkansas missing out! Bill Self @ Kansas didn't even stand a chance ! There just aren't many Coach K's, Tom Izzo's , Lon Kreuger's, or Bill Self's in the world much any more! Unless you're one of these guys, it seems you've gotta cheat to win ! It's a damn shame!

You of course have no evidence, it's your Arkansas colored glasses. The old "these teams I deem inferior are doing better than my team, so they must be cheating" trope.

Ben Howland is a borderline HOF coach. He's not at the Izzo/Boeheim/Kryzewski Level but he is way closer to their level than he is to say Mike Anderson (based on resumes). He can list 3 consecutive Final Fours + NBA players like Kevin Love. Given the end of the top 100 he is mostly recruit (i.e. 50-100) he doesn't exactly have to cheat to have a good chance at landing them. It also doesn't hurt that Greg Carter (Current Starkville High School basketball coach) is

a) an MSU alum (played on the first Richard Williams coached team to make the NCAA's)
and
b) Involved in AAU thanks to his son Tyson

Carter isn't doing anything that qualifies as cheating, but he does obviously provide a good recommendation for MSU any time he is asked.

He's also done a fantastic job of Steering an SHS kids to MSU.



Maybe Calipari cheated early on, but these Days I doubt you could find a shred of cheating at U.K basketball, because he has become so successful that he doesn't have to.

[maxhog5]

You of course have no evidence, it's your Arkansas colored glasses. The old "these teams I deem inferior are doing better than my team, so they must be cheating" trope.

Ben Howland is a borderline HOF coach. He's not at the Izzo/Boeheim/Kryzewski Level but he is way closer to their level than he is to say Mike Anderson (based on resumes). He can list 3 consecutive Final Fours + NBA players like Kevin Love. Given the end of the top 100 he is mostly recruit (i.e. 50-100) he doesn't exactly have to cheat to have a good chance at landing them. It also doesn't hurt that Greg Carter (Current Starkville High School basketball coach) is

a) an MSU alum (played on the first Richard Williams coached team to make the NCAA's)
and
b) Involved in AAU thanks to his son Tyson

Carter isn't doing anything that qualifies as cheating, but he does obviously provide a good recommendation for MSU any time he is asked.

He's also done a fantastic job of Steering an SHS kids to MSU.



Maybe Calipari cheated early on, but these Days I doubt you could find a shred of cheating at U.K basketball, because he has become so successful that he doesn't have to.

[urkillnmesmalls]

You of course have no evidence, it's your Arkansas colored glasses. The old "these teams I deem inferior are doing better than my team, so they must be cheating" trope.

Ben Howland is a borderline HOF coach. He's not at the Izzo/Boeheim/Kryzewski Level but he is way closer to their level than he is to say Mike Anderson (based on resumes). He can list 3 consecutive Final Fours + NBA players like Kevin Love. Given the end of the top 100 he is mostly recruit (i.e. 50-100) he doesn't exactly have to cheat to have a good chance at landing them. It also doesn't hurt that Greg Carter (Current Starkville High School basketball coach) is

a) an MSU alum (played on the first Richard Williams coached team to make the NCAA's)
and
b) Involved in AAU thanks to his son Tyson

Carter isn't doing anything that qualifies as cheating, but he does obviously provide a good recommendation for MSU any time he is asked.

He's also done a fantastic job of Steering an SHS kids to MSU.



Maybe Calipari cheated early on, but these Days I doubt you could find a shred of cheating at U.K basketball, because he has become so successful that he doesn't have to.

Haha....so it's OK to cheat when you're first getting started, but then after that just ride out the success?  I'm sure the Memphis fans felt that way too until the grade altering scandal came to light. 

I'm sure everything is above board there at KY.  Pull my other leg.... 

[hogsanity]

Haha....so it's OK to cheat when you're first getting started, but then after that just ride out the success?  I'm sure the Memphis fans felt that way too until the grade altering scandal came to light. 

I'm sure everything is above board there at KY.  Pull my other leg.... 

KY may be dirty, until proven it is all conjecture. It is funny how the only teams ever accused of cheating by fans are the ones that usually just thumped said fans team. I wonder if Mizzu fans accused the Hogs of cheating after the epic beatdown the hogs put on them?

[urkillnmesmalls]

KY may be dirty, until proven it is all conjecture. It is funny how the only teams ever accused of cheating by fans are the ones that usually just thumped said fans team. I wonder if Mizzu fans accused the Hogs of cheating after the epic beatdown the hogs put on them?

Oh, it's conjecture...absolutely.  KY didn't beat us because they cheated.  We just aren't very good.  They aren't even that good, as we're going to see against KU.  We beat them last season when we had a better team.  I would have still said I don't EVER put cheating past Cal.  I just think he's a slimeball. 

He whines about having a young team when he's got 5 future NBA players on the court, and a few on the bench.  Cry me a river.  He's intentionally set his program up to be the destination for one and done players, and he lives to hear announcers use that phrase just to foster it.  He doesn't care if it's hurting college basketball on the whole...not his concern.     

Call me crazy, but when someone has been caught cheating everywhere he's been, I'm going to be a skeptic, no matter if we're beating them, or losing to them.  Just like Auburn...they're cheaters.  Always have been, always will be.     

[Jackrabbit Hog]

Call me crazy, but when someone has been caught cheating everywhere he's been, I'm going to be a skeptic, no matter if we're beating them, or losing to them.  Just like Auburn...they're cheaters.  Always have been, always will be.   

SAY WHAT???

[yraciv]

Oh, it's conjecture...absolutely.  KY didn't beat us because they cheated.  We just aren't very good.  They aren't even that good, as we're going to see against KU.  We beat them last season when we had a better team.  I would have still said I don't EVER put cheating past Cal.  I just think he's a slimeball. 

He whines about having a young team when he's got 5 future NBA players on the court, and a few on the bench.  Cry me a river.  He's intentionally set his program up to be the destination for one and done players, and he lives to hear announcers use that phrase just to foster it.  He doesn't care if it's hurting college basketball on the whole...not his concern.     

Call me crazy, but when someone has been caught cheating everywhere he's been, I'm going to be a skeptic, no matter if we're beating them, or losing to them.  Just like Auburn...they're cheaters.  Always have been, always will be.     

Cal has never been put on probation or found of any wrongdoings in any of these instances.  Either he is very good at cheating or he has had the unfortunate luck to have some players break the rules. The Umass vacated wins were because Marcus Camby took money from an agent, which I highly doubt Cal would let happen if he had an idea.  I don't think we'll ever know the real story of why Derrick Rose's SAT score got adjusted so he could play, but considering his brother has been meddling in his entire career it could have been solely him, faculty adjustments, or Cal could have helped.  Whatever way, he was cleared from that and has never been charged with something like boosters paying players or lack of institutional control.

There were allegations of Fed Ex giving parents jobs, players internships though, if memory serves me right.  But I think all schools do this to some extent, hooking their players up with cush internships and looking out for the family. 

[Jackrabbit Hog]

Cal has never been put on probation or found of any wrongdoings in any of these instances.  Either he is very good at cheating or he has had the unfortunate luck to have some players break the rules. The Umass vacated wins were because Marcus Camby took money from an agent, which I highly doubt Cal would let happen if he had an idea.  I don't think we'll ever know the real story of why Derrick Rose's SAT score got adjusted so he could play, but considering his brother has been meddling in his entire career it could have been solely him, faculty adjustments, or Cal could have helped.  Whatever way, he was cleared from that and has never been charged with something like boosters paying players.

There were allegations of Fed Ex giving parents jobs, players internships though, if memory serves me right.  But I think all schools do this to some extent, hooking their players up with cush internships and looking out for the family.

Plausible deniability.  It's a concept he's made a career off of.

[yraciv]

Plausible deniability.  It's a concept he's made a career off of.

Believe what you will. It definitely isn't a Larry Brown or Kelvin Sampson situation.  I don't think you even need to pay recruits at Kentucky.  It's easy to recruit, when you have the best of everything, especially when a natural recruiter like Calipari is running the shots.

I do think he is doing a better job of monitoring his players then in his past with access to agents, media, scouts. That's a live and learn thing after the Camby ordeal, but some things just happen. You can't watch these guys 24/7.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

Believe what you will. It definitely isn't a Larry Brown or Kelvin Sampson situation.

You're right.  Neither of those guys were as adept at it as Calipari. 

[Hoggish1]

  Yes, the refs stunk and missed some calls, but that didn't cost us the game. 

You make a few good points but, missed some calls...?  I'd like to think you really didn't mean to say that...

[Hoggish1]

I agree. Kentucky just got beat to freakin Auburn and got drilled at lsu.

, and you point is?  We should have beaten LSU in their place.

[UKChamps]

Oh, it's conjecture...absolutely.  KY didn't beat us because they cheated.  We just aren't very good.  They aren't even that good, as we're going to see against KU.  We beat them last season when we had a better team.     

No, you didn't.  We curb stomped you, twice. 

[urkillnmesmalls]

No, you didn't.  We curb stomped you, twice.

Two seasons ago.  Qualls dunk at the buzzer.  Time flies when you're trying to keep up with a team whose roster changes every season when they go to the NBA and take a pay cut.   

[userpick]

, and you point is?  We should have beaten LSU in their place.

My point is it's year 5 and we aren't worth two shitts

[husker71]

what you call "cheating" has been around for ever and will be around for ever.  Google "Sam Gilbert" and see how John Wooden got his players.  LB State had the "chicken man" during Tarks heyday and Oral Roberts had well Oral Roberts.