How would the haters coach differently?

[Atlhogfan1]

Save the Nutt comparisons for when he Mustains a kid, we hear about how he treats some of his stars better than others for mysterious reasons, or he completely wrecks the next program he lands at.

I don't know that any of us would ever even think Coach A would do the things Nutt and his posse did.  He isn't near that selfish, narcissistic or horrible of a person.  I would never insult Coach A by comparing him to HDN on a personal level or how they treat people. 

The eras have some of same kind of feel though in other ways. 

[wheelspigharvey]

I don't know that any of us would ever even think Coach A would do the things Nutt and his posse did.  He isn't near that selfish, narcissistic or horrible of a person.  I would never insult Coach A by comparing him to HDN on a personal level or how they treat people. 

The eras have some of same kind of feel though in other ways.

IF Mike turns out to be totally mediocre, he will do it his own way for sure.

[SleepyJ]

No.

You are comparing the two which is unfair to Coach A as it would be most any coach.

No.
I was referring to a post earlier where there accomplishments were put next to each other I was just pointing out the fact that one of those coaches Was in his 14th season and the other his 41st  which is unfair, but if you want to be fair and compare them you would have to do it between 14 seasons....

[majp51]

Two tournament appearances since MA left the program. MA was in the tournament 3 of his 4 years at the school. See what I mean? His resume still stands on its own merit. Oregon wanted to hire Anderson as well as Georgia.  I tell you one thing if Arkansas make a mistake and fire Anderson he will not be unemployed for long.

If you look at Anderson's record at Missouri and Arkansas, he accumulates good records by feasting on a soft OOC, relatively speaking,  and the is usually at least Average in conference, with once and a while have a special season. A school like UAB is in a conference where the OOC is usually stronger than the In conference strength.

Again I'm not saying fire Mike, but recognize his history. Against what are theoretically quality opponents (i.e Power 5) he has historically hovered near the .500 mark, with an occasion "special" season

And While Oregon and Georgia wanted to hire CMA, you do realize that is the same as "Power 5 Perennial also rans wanted to hire MA"

Tae Georgia for instance, the last time they were relevant was the few years Tubby Smith was there, before that you have to go back to Dominique Wilkins.

Not knocking MA for who wanted to hire him, just pointing out that neither school makes a case for you either.

[Atlhogfan1]

No.
I was referring to a post earlier where there accomplishments were put next to each other I was just pointing out the fact that one of those coaches Was in his 14th season and the other his 41st  which is unfair, but if you want to be fair and compare them you would have to do it between 14 seasons....

You don't want to compare 14 seasons in.  Let it go.  This was a poor effort at defense(not by you but those who tried it earlier). 

[majp51]

No.
I was referring to a post earlier where there accomplishments were put next to each other I was just pointing out the fact that one of those coaches Was in his 14th season and the other his 41st  which is unfair, but if you want to be fair and compare them you would have to do it between 14 seasons....

That's fine. Let's just looking at the first 14 season.

Look at just years 9 -14 for Coach K.

1983–84   Duke   24–10   7–7   T–3rd   NCAA Round of 32
1984–85   Duke   23–8   8–6   T–4th   NCAA Round of 32
1985–86   Duke   37–3   12–2   1st   NCAA Champions
1986–87   Duke   24–9   9–5   3rd   NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1987–88   Duke   28–7   9–5   3rd   NCAA Final Four
1988–89   Duke   28–8   9–5   T–2nd   NCAA Final Four

I count 3 final fours, and a National Championship. In what universe is Mikes record comparable to that?


Keep in Mind that the ACC from the Late 70's through the early 9-'s was to Basketball what the SEC is to football.


If you want to just compare first 4 Seasons at Duke versus first 4 season at Arkansas we can do that,
And that is definitely where Coach K fares poorer than Coach A. However It would also result in the exact same post season record, Years 1-4 , one NIT and 1 NCAA appears for both coaches. Barring an absolute miracle Season 5 and onward is vastly different.

[SleepyJ]

After 6 no tournament appearances and 2 nit losses... With a few losing seasons added in the mix...  Mike has never had a losing season.. And actually went to the dance 1 more time... Even tho coach k was in his 10th year at duke and Mike is rebuilding his 3rd program...

[majp51]

He was also 85-65 his first 5 seasons with Duke. I wonder what would've been said about him on the net, if it was around back then.

Err if he made it to season 4, I'm guessing nothing.  He got his first real good recruiting class beginning year 3, and there was progress. Year 4, NCAA Tourney , Year 5 NCAA Tourney.

[Atlhogfan1]

Duke was R-up in 86. 

[The_Iceman]

But how does that have any impact in year 5 of Mike's tenure? Years 1 and 2 for sure, maybe 3, but 5?

I think I have raised this questions twice today and neither time has anyone answered it.

[Dropkick]

I don't understand rebuilding in year 5 either but I would sure like to hear a plausible explanation.

[majp51]

After 6 no tournament appearances and 2 nit losses... With a few losing seasons added in the mix...  Mike has never had a losing season.. And actually went to the dance 1 more time... Even tho coach k was in his 10th year at duke and Mike is rebuilding his 3rd program...

Actually 9th season, if we are counting. But you know what, UAB is vastly easier then The Army Academy. You do realize that Army has never made a Tourney Appearance and in Fact has only made the NIT 8 times right? Neither Bobby Knight nor Mike Kryzewski could do anything more than the NIT there. Of course since until the mid to late 70's you had to be a conference champion to play in the NCAA's I'm not sure an independent like Army could have even qualified.

You have no understanding of context at all do you?

[majp51]

Duke was R-up in 86. 

Man I thought So, that's what I get for copying and pasting from Wikipedia.

[Atlhogfan1]

Err if he made it to season 4, I'm guessing nothing.  He got his first real good recruiting class beginning year 3, and there was progress. Year 4, NCAA Tourney , Year 5 NCAA Tourney.

Agreed.  To wonder what was being said in his first 5 seasons is as dumb as trying to make a defense of Coach A by using Coach K. 

After 5 seasons at Duke:
http://www.si.com/vault/1985/11/20/638208/5-duke

[Atlhogfan1]

Man I thought So, that's what I get for copying and pasting from Wikipedia.

I've seen that on there. 

[majp51]

I've seen that on there. 

Yeah, going back an looking at that, I can only guess that they have NCAA Championship if they played the final game. My Family is from Carolina, so I grew up on bTobacco row basketball. Watching in the 80's was Heady stuff. Jordan and Worthy in the Beginning, then the Cardiac Pack, and the Duke Ascendancy.

[Atlhogfan1]

Yeah, going back an looking at that, I can only guess that they have NCAA Championship if they played the final game. My Family is from Carolina, so I grew up on bTobacco row basketball. Watching in the 80's was Heady stuff. Jordan and Worthy in the Beginning, then the Cardiac Pack, and the Duke Ascendancy.

The Never Nervous Pervis Cards' team won it that season. 

80s ACC was good stuff.  Ralph Sampson, Georgia Tech with teams with Price and Dalrymple, Lefty with Len Bias. 

[urkillnmesmalls]

7th graders of course, at high levels no, There is coaching that happens there, but it is mostly talking about effort and tidbits like make 2 go left and such at that level. There are coaches that breakout the white board at every TO, but they are in the minority. There is also coaching that gets done individually with players on the bench, but this is mostly handled by the assistants.

OK.  Rah rah, sis, boom, bah.  Seems like a winning formula during timeouts to me. 

[JD Hogg]

the results on the court and in recruiting, and the defense offered by his backers make it true. It really does not have to be said.

"My point exactly.  Firing Nutt for the sake of firinf Nutt would be horrible.  I can see it now.  Fire Nutt then start dropping names, then watch as one by oone they turn you down.  Next thing you know you are hiring another Nutt.  Some guy from a small D1 school who takes his one shot at the BIG TIME in the SEC." 

Posted by Hogsanity April 26th, 2005 at 3:30:03 PM in defense of HDN.  There were many, many, MANY more posts defending nutt right up to his firing, in his 10th year.  I wonder why CMA doesn't deserve the same consideration in his 5th year. 

[hogsanity]

"My point exactly.  Firing Nutt for the sake of firinf Nutt would be horrible.  I can see it now.  Fire Nutt then start dropping names, then watch as one by oone they turn you down.  Next thing you know you are hiring another Nutt.  Some guy from a small D1 school who takes his one shot at the BIG TIME in the SEC." 

Posted by Hogsanity April 26th, 2005 at 3:30:03 PM in defense of HDN.  There were many, many, MANY more posts defending nutt right up to his firing, in his 10th year.  I wonder why CMA doesn't deserve the same consideration in his 5th year. 

Lets see, even though many here have said football and basketball are apples and oranges. First why fire a football coach at the time of year that quote came from?  Second, lets see, HDN took teams to bowls in 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2006, 2007 ( did not coach the bowl game ). so he made the post season 8 times in 10 seasons. Has Mike come anywhere near that type of success as the HC of the basketball team?

Plus, who has said MA should be fired. Some of you take ANY criticism of him as someone wanting him fired. Most of us just want him to do a better job. Maybe try something different, not like it is going to hurt anything at this point in the season.

[urkillnmesmalls]

I shouldn't have posted in this thread.  I'm not an MA hater by any stretch.  I like him a lot as a person, and I think he's working hard.  I just think he has a lot working against him, and it's mainly the perception of going there to be a wheel in the cog of his system that's fostered by the coaches' he's recruiting against. 

Meanwhile, the reality is, Portis and Qualls were more than able to show their skills to their full potential in his system and he's shown that he'll give more minutes to the kids who are playing well. 

Our best hope is that he gets some diamonds in the rough in here with some great chemistry and team dynamic, and they overachieve and do some great things for a few seasons in a row.  That leaves no reason for top talent not to come here.  As it is right now...after last night, it's not difficult to see why Monk chose KY, even though I think it's a mistake.  He could be a big fish in a little pond here, but at KY he's going to be a small fish in a big pond.  Maybe I'm wrong and he will shine brightly at KY and be a standout in his "one before done" season. 

As fans, I think we better SERIOUSLY hope that these JC players and the improvement we're seeing continues next season and we have a few really good years to help with recruiting, and the long term MA prospects make an upturn.  I like Mike, and I really think the primary concern is upgrading our talent. 

[JD Hogg]

Lets see, even though many here have said football and basketball are apples and oranges. First why fire a football coach at the time of year that quote came from?  Second, lets see, HDN took teams to bowls in 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2006, 2007 ( did not coach the bowl game ). so he made the post season 8 times in 10 seasons. Has Mike come anywhere near that type of success as the HC of the basketball team?

Plus, who has said MA should be fired. Some of you take ANY criticism of him as someone wanting him fired. Most of us just want him to do a better job. Maybe try something different, not like it is going to hurt anything at this point in the season.

And yet another defense of the indefensible nutt.   30 something bowls for 100 or so teams vs. 68 spots for 200 plus teams.  Seems it would be easier getting to a bowl than ncaa tourney.   
Just don't understand why Mike Anderson is not seen in the same light as nutt.  Why hold him to a different standard?

[Atlhogfan1]

And yet another defense of the indefensible nutt.   30 something bowls for 100 or so teams vs. 68 spots for 200 plus teams.  Seems it would be easier getting to a bowl than ncaa tourney.   
Just don't understand why Mike Anderson is not seen in the same light as nutt.  Why hold him to a different standard?

I don't think they are held to vastly different standards.  Several years into Nutt's tenure, the standard was he makes it to bowls and he beat SMU, we couldn't do better and he was one of us(which even that had some holes in it).  The current, very fluid standard for basketball for many right now is based on the end of the Nolan era, Heath and Pelphrey aka the lowest point in our program since the early 70s.  Beat SMU and make a bowl isn't much different as well as some other similarities.  People got/get very emotional and personal in their defenses of both.

[SleepyJ]

Actually 9th season, if we are counting. But you know what, UAB is vastly easier then The Army Academy. You do realize that Army has never made a Tourney Appearance and in Fact has only made the NIT 8 times right? Neither Bobby Knight nor Mike Kryzewski could do anything more than the NIT there. Of course since until the mid to late 70's you had to be a conference champion to play in the NCAA's I'm not sure an independent like Army could have even qualified.

You have no understanding of context at all do you?

Well navy and Air Force are independent schools and they made the tournament before the 1970's..
Navy actually went to the tournament quite a few times in the 80s even played against duke and coach k.. So we can't really say it's impossible for army to make the dance... It's impossible when your team is 11-14 or 9-17... Although Mike hasn't had the success coach k has he has had nowhere near the failures... And who knows what Mike would've done at MIZZOU had he not decided to take up the challenge at Arkansas... He didn't need us his team was already in the top 10...we needed him... And still do... We were ranked as high as number 18 last year now we had some bad breaks but EVERY team does.. Mike did us a favor and if he leaves this program is going 2 b crap....

[SleepyJ]

Well navy and Air Force were independent schools and they made the tournament before the 1970's..
Navy actually went to the tournament quite a few times in the 80s even played against duke and coach k.. So we can't really say it's impossible for army to make the dance... It's impossible when your team is 11-14 or 9-17... Although Mike hasn't had the success coach k has he has had nowhere near the failures... And who knows what Mike would've done at MIZZOU had he not decided to take up the challenge at Arkansas... He didn't need us his team was already in the top 10...we needed him... And still do... We were ranked as high as number 18 last year now we had some bad breaks but EVERY team does.. Mike did us a favor and if he leaves this program is going 2 b crap....

[tomw]

When Anderson was hired I warned everyone what kind of team we would have,  and I've been proved right...mediocre teams that played like the teams at end of Noland years when Anderson was doing the recruiting and coaching..ever wonder why none of Mikes assistants never leave for other jobs?  No one wants them

[gulfcoasthogfan]

I lived in AL while MA was at UAB.  Went to some of the games and watched him beat JC while he was at Memphis.  Then I worked in MO for a while and followed him while in Columbia.  The one thing all his teams have in common is absolutely no focus on a big man or rebounding.  Total reliance on defense, fast breaks and threes.  Exciting to watch while it works, but will not get you to the top consistently.  It is really frustrating watching these teams rely on helter skelter basketball and not put some emphasis on a big guy or getting in the paint. 
Anyhow I have read posts on here for years and decided to pony up and post something.

[ICEman]

Start D-ing 'em up when they get off the damn plane instead of later when they get off the damn bus.  It appears that the latter strategy just doesn't seem to work consistently.

[code red]

Recruit and use my TOs.....for starters