GAME THREAD: Arkansas Razorbacks vs Kentucky

[Hogsmo Kramer]

I think the incoming class with the guys we have now will improve drastically, yes. I also think Mike has done a supremely impressive job developing guys like Dusty, Jabril, Moses, and Bell. Think about it. The guys who are our main scorers weren't even really contributing all that much last year.  Bell got minutes, but was inconsistent.  We lost all our production on offense, but have scored lots of points and outperformed most of our expectations.  I think he's done a heck of a job coaching. Recruiting could obviously improve. Firing him right now would be suicide for us. Believe it or not, it can be a lot worse.

I'm not saying for sure fire him right now but I don't think the thought of it is so ludicrous in the end.

I hope not because I have nostalgia ties to MA as most fans do but we are simply surviving in this league and in college BB in general, not thriving, and the wait til next year spill is getting old.

It's time to get this program as a whole turning the corner and I'm just not sure he can pull it off anymore.

We need talent and he struggles getting it consistently.

I dunno man the vision I had for MA is getting a little blurry at the moment.

[Iwastherein1969]

With the fact that his older brother sold out to the highest bidder what could Mike have done? Be specific.

Pay more than the other guys.  How's that for specific?  Oh yeah, I forgot about how we like to overlook losing by beating our chest about how morally superior we are!

Gather yourself, man. Everyone knows the trail of fallen banners that have been left in the wake of John Calipari. Websters dictionary has a picture of Calipari by the word vacate.

[PorkRinds]

With the fact that his older brother sold out to the highest bidder what could Mike have done? Be specific.

Pay more than the other guys.  How's that for specific?  Oh yeah, I forgot about how we like to overlook losing by beating our chest about how morally superior we are!

OH ok. Mike should have paid him.  Great thinking there, Einstein.

[greenEGnHAWGS]

You seem to be here.  Just saying.

Ha ha...quite the observation there. Not sure what that had to do with what I said though.

[PorkRinds]

I'm not saying for sure fire him right now but I don't think the thought of it is so ludicrous in the end.

I hope not because I have nostalgia ties to MA as most fans do but we are simply surviving in this league and in college BB in general, not thriving, and the wait til next year spill is getting old.

It's time to get this program as a whole turning the corner and I'm just not sure he can pull it off anymore.

We need talent and he struggles getting it consistently.

I dunno man the vision I had for MA is getting a little blurry at the moment.

Mike isn't responsible for your vision being bad. 

[PonderinHog]

Mike isn't responsible for your vision being bad. 

It's the home brew...

[PonderinHog]

They have better players. We needed a best effort game and laid an egg instead.

More like a dog turd at a picnic.

[Hogsmo Kramer]

Mike isn't responsible for your vision being bad. 

Good point.

It's likely those beers I was hammering watching that game. 

[Hogsmo Kramer]

It's the home brew...

^^^This^^^ is likely the culprit.

I think I used the wrong yeast. 

[Wild Bill Hog]

Ha ha...quite the observation there. Not sure what that had to do with what I said though.

Seems like you said something about your never coming into game threads or some such thing.  Didn't go back to look.

[latrops]

I think the incoming class with the guys we have now will improve drastically, yes. I also think Mike has done a supremely impressive job developing guys like Dusty, Jabril, Moses, and Bell. Think about it. The guys who are our main scorers weren't even really contributing all that much last year.  Bell got minutes, but was inconsistent.  We lost all our production on offense, but have scored lots of points and outperformed most of our expectations.  I think he's done a heck of a job coaching. Recruiting could obviously improve. Firing him right now would be suicide for us. Believe it or not, it can be a lot worse.

While I don't believe he should be fired during or after this season....the "it could be worse" line of thinking doesn't tend to ultimately lead to much success. 

[TheRazorback500]

Kentucky played more like Kentucky tonight because Cal was on their butts after they were kicked by LSU and beaten by Auburn and we ended up being the one that they got their stuff together against.

:razorback:

[greenEGnHAWGS]

Seems like you said something about your never coming into game threads or some such thing.  Didn't go back to look.

I said a ton of stuff then flippantly mentioned that I usually stay away from Jump Ball game threads...and THAT is what he commented on. Nvm...

[HoopS]

Stage was too big. We never could get started and even though Ky didn't play that well, we messed around long enough and they started to play pretty well. We can't miss so many free throws. We have to do better on the boards. Sure, they also got some good breaks when they shot so dang bad the ball kicked way out right to them. Just our luck. But Kentucky whipped us and out hustled us tonight. They earned the win. The refs still weren't good, IMO. But Kentucky deserved the W. And we better figure things out real quick because we have several losable games looming.

[Danny J]

Did we have a size advantage anywhere tonight?

No...the one time they left us open for a 3 you could see Cal freaking out and pulled Murray immediately.  That told me their focus all week was stop hannahs and bell from shooting 3s.

[hogfan10]

Their 2 star big men have 9 fouls between them. Alex had 4 fouls barely to start the 2nd half and Lee fouled out. You have to take those who complain about the refs with a grain of salt. This isn't a knock on them but it's obvious they never played the game and don't get you get some and you don't get some. That's why you don't hear athletes complain that much about officiating. Message boards have made keyboard athletes out of way to many people.

Being the athlete that you obviously are/were, you surely realize that refs can control a game by when they call a foul and what they call as a foul. Not all fouls are equal, some have a greater influence on the outcome of a game. For example, UK was in the bonus well before the Hogs were, but the # of fouls were relatively the same against both teams. Then you have shooting fouls vs. no shooting fouls. They drive the lane, get bumped and foul is called; we didn't get that call for most of the game, particularly early.

[PonderinHog]

No...the one time they left us open for a 3 you could see Cal freaking out and pulled Murray immediately.  That told me their focus all week was stop hannahs and bell from shooting 3s.

The plan worked.  He who hesitates is lost.

[hawgwild child]

Being the athlete that you obviously are/were, you surely realize that refs can control a game by when they call a foul and what they call as a foul. Not all fouls are equal, some have a greater influence on the outcome of a game. For example, UK was in the bonus well before the Hogs were, but the # of fouls were relatively the same against both teams. Then you have shooting fouls vs. no shooting fouls. They drive the lane, get bumped and foul is called; we didn't get that call for most of the game, particularly early.

Uhhj no.  Hogs were in the bonus first in both half's and that is fact

[Wild Bill Hog]

I said a ton of stuff then flippantly mentioned that I usually stay away from Jump Ball game threads...and THAT is what he commented on. Nvm...

Guess you should have used the flippant font.

[hogfan10]

The announcers hit on this more than once; we go for the shot block too much. We'll have two go for the block, leaving an opponent open for the put back. Also, with our lack of an offense, we can't get open outside looks against taller, more athletic, & defensively disciplined teams.

[elksnort]

I think the incoming class with the guys we have now will improve drastically, yes. I also think Mike has done a supremely impressive job developing guys like Dusty, Jabril, Moses, and Bell. Think about it. The guys who are our main scorers weren't even really contributing all that much last year.  Bell got minutes, but was inconsistent.  We lost all our production on offense, but have scored lots of points and outperformed most of our expectations.  I think he's done a heck of a job coaching. Recruiting could obviously improve. Firing him right now would be suicide for us. Believe it or not, it can be a lot worse.

really could not have said it better. The team just have to keep playing hard with the new guys and next year they'll be a lot better

[elksnort]

Voice thing makes for bad grammar sometimes

[hogfan10]

Uhhj no.  Hogs were in the bonus first in both half's and that is fact

You positive? Pretty sure they got in the bonus several game minutes b/4 us in the second half. I do agree that we were in bonus first in the first half though. But, what about getting to the line b/4 actually being in the bonus? Either way, it doesn't change the main point of the post, that refs can affect the game in one teams favor, even though foul totals are relatively the same.

[greenEGnHAWGS]

Guess you should have used the flippant font.

Yeah...couldn't find it.

[MountieDawg]

You positive? Pretty sure they got in the bonus several game minutes b/4 us in the second half. I do agree that we were in bonus first in the first half though. But, what about getting to the line b/4 actually being in the bonus? Either way, it doesn't change the main point of the post, that refs can affect the game in one teams favor, even though foul totals are relatively the same.

He was right, Hogs in the bonus 1st both halves....  Plus Hogs shot 31 free throws to Kentuckys 30 free throws...  That is with the Hogs having to foul in the last few minutes...

[MemphisBossHog]

Tell us exactly what Mike should have done to get Monk. With the fact that his older brother sold out to the highest bidder what could Mike have done? Be specific.

Okay PorkRinds, I get what you are saying.  To be honest, I figured that when it was described as a "business decision" (a la Archie Goodwin) for MM to attend KY, I really thought they meant that it was the Monk camp thinking that it would be easier for Malik to get drafted higher in the NBA--thus the "business decision."  But if, as you say, he was "sold" to the highest bidder and that happened to be KY/Calipari/WorldWideWes, then you are right, there was not much Mike could do as the construction of ARK's roster would lead one to think that Ark doesnt pay for players.  We just arent good enough to think that.  So I stand corrected PR. 

[hogfan10]

He was right, Hogs in the bonus 1st both halves....  Plus Hogs shot 31 free throws to Kentuckys 30 free throws...  That is with the Hogs having to foul in the last few minutes...

Ok, guess I'm wrong. I don't think we ever got in have to foul mode though, game wasn't close enough.

[PonderinHog]

Okay PorkRinds, I get what you are saying.  To be honest, I figured that when it was described as a "business decision" (a la Archie Goodwin) for MM to attend KY, I really thought they meant that it was the Monk camp thinking that it would be easier for Malik to get drafted higher in the NBA--thus the "business decision."  But if, as you say, he was "sold" to the highest bidder and that happened to be KY/Calipari/WorldWideWes, then you are right, there was not much Mike could do as the construction of ARK's roster would lead one to think that Ark doesnt pay for players.  We just arent good enough to think that.  So I stand corrected PR.

Marcus is probably the one getting the bennies, not Malik.

[MemphisBossHog]

Didn't call you dumb, I called your line of thinking dumb.  You don't fire a coach unless you hVe better options. We don't.

okay, granted but I didnt say to fire him.  I said that if he continues to lose the best talent the state has to offer, then "maybe" other alternatives at least need to be discussed.   That, of course, leads to the discussion of "how" he lost MM (and Archie??  did Mike recruit Archie or was that Pel?)  And that is a whole other can of worms.

If MM was "sold" to KY even after moving closer the Fayetteville for his high school years then we might as well just figure that when Arkansas has a 5 star recruit good enough for KY to recruit, we should just go ahead and concede him to the Cats unless they are just Hog fans from childhood like Bobby P was/is.  That is really disconcerting that the only major university in the state cannot keep its top talent in state.  I know KeVaughn Allen went to Florida but Im talking about he cream of the crop like Archie and MM.  Its like we never had a chance. 

There has to be a way to keep our in state talent in state.  We are not some hotbed of basketball recruiting.  We dont have that many stud players, so when we actually do have one, whoever is the coach cannot keep losing them.  I get that Archie left and called it a business decision.  But now MM is going to leave the state and basically call it the same thing or let his brother take the fall for him saying there were "distractions" with the Ark program.  For whatever the reason, once again, Ark misses out on the top talent in the state.  KeVaughn Allen also left the state.  I mean if Ark could just keep its in state talent home, we might be a heck of a program once again.  Its Mike's job to figure out how to do it.  Didnt say it was easy, but he gets compensated quite well by the UA and the Razorback Foundation to come up with the way to do it, not just throw his hands up in the air and say I cant compete with big bad KY and their $$$.

From what I have read about Mike's incoming JUCO squad (LOL), it looks like they will be talented and not be baby frosh, so maybe Mike can get Arkansas back relevant again so the next 5 star talent (if there is any coming up) wont have to simply be conceded to Calipari and the Cats.  Maybe the prospect might look at Arkansas as a viable alternative to Calipari's factory of 1 and dones.

[MemphisBossHog]

Marcus is probably the one getting the bennies, not Malik.

Ponderin, you are probably right now that I think about it and if that is so, I hope whatever ties he had to the UA are severed and he can just go enjoy his bennies for as long as they last.  Marcus is a former Hog football player.  If he did his own university that way, the eff him, just eff him.

[hamARchy in the USA]

When Long went after a second rate coach it set the stage for top recruits to go elsewhere.  Very predictable.

Top recruits in the state should not be forced to choose between playing for the Razorbacks or having to go to other schools to play for top coaches.  There's no chance the situation at Arkansas is going to substantially change without a coaching change. 

The question isn't whether Arkansas can do better.  It's whether Long can do better.

[Ironhawg]

Fire Mike for who ?  Who would put all he had into the program at Arkansas besides Mike Anderson. There are no coaches out there who can create magic. When you have your best in-state players choosing to roll up to UK to sit on his bench and then play in the NBA's D league well, this is what happens. Mike did absolutely everything but throw money at some player from Lepanto. The kid's family was moved, only God knows how, to Bentonville to a wealthy school to play and this is how you get thanked. A "Billy Jack" kick to the head and an EFF you on the way out the door. Time for this family to move back to Lepanto.

Wouldn't hurt my feelings if they moved on to Lexington.

[PorkRinds]

okay, granted but I didnt say to fire him.  I said that if he continues to lose the best talent the state has to offer, then "maybe" other alternatives at least need to be discussed.   That, of course, leads to the discussion of "how" he lost MM (and Archie??  did Mike recruit Archie or was that Pel?)  And that is a whole other can of worms.

If MM was "sold" to KY even after moving closer the Fayetteville for his high school years then we might as well just figure that when Arkansas has a 5 star recruit good enough for KY to recruit, we should just go ahead and concede him to the Cats unless they are just Hog fans from childhood like Bobby P was/is.  That is really disconcerting that the only major university in the state cannot keep its top talent in state.  I know KeVaughn Allen went to Florida but Im talking about he cream of the crop like Archie and MM.  Its like we never had a chance. 

There has to be a way to keep our in state talent in state.  We are not some hotbed of basketball recruiting.  We dont have that many stud players, so when we actually do have one, whoever is the coach cannot keep losing them.  I get that Archie left and called it a business decision.  But now MM is going to leave the state and basically call it the same thing or let his brother take the fall for him saying there were "distractions" with the Ark program.  For whatever the reason, once again, Ark misses out on the top talent in the state.  KeVaughn Allen also left the state.  I mean if Ark could just keep its in state talent home, we might be a heck of a program once again.  Its Mike's job to figure out how to do it.  Didnt say it was easy, but he gets compensated quite well by the UA and the Razorback Foundation to come up with the way to do it, not just throw his hands up in the air and say I cant compete with big bad KY and their $$$.

From what I have read about Mike's incoming JUCO squad (LOL), it looks like they will be talented and not be baby frosh, so maybe Mike can get Arkansas back relevant again so the next 5 star talent (if there is any coming up) wont have to simply be conceded to Calipari and the Cats.  Maybe the prospect might look at Arkansas as a viable alternative to Calipari's factory of 1 and dones.

Mike did everything he could to get Monk. Again, how do you suggest doing what you suggest? It happens in football too, so it isn't just Anderson. How can any Hog coach convince every elite kid to come here instead of KY/Bama?

[PonderinHog]

Mike did everything he could to get Monk. Again, how do you suggest doing what you suggest? It happens in football too, so it isn't just Anderson. How can any Hog coach convince every elite kid to come here instead of KY/Bama?

Make  them an offer they can't refuse...

[GoHogs1091]

Kentucky was on cruise control tonight.  It reminded me of when Syracuse came into Bud Walton a few years ago and won while on cruise control.

Winless in Conference play Mississippi State played tougher against Kentucky in Rupp Arena than we did tonight against Kentucky in Bud Walton.  Probably a result of Ben Howland's coaching.

The rest of the SEC is going to have a real problem when Howland gets his own players playing at MSU.

[PonderinHog]

Kentucky was on cruise control tonight.  It reminded me of when Syracuse came into Bud Walton a few years ago and won while on cruise control.

Winless in Conference play Mississippi State played tougher against Kentucky in Rupp Arena than we did tonight against Kentucky in Bud Walton.  Probably a result of Ben Howland's coaching.

The rest of the SEC is going to have a real problem when Howland gets his own players playing at MSU.

And it could be that you're still FOS.

[GoHogs1091]

And it could be that you're still FOS.

Nope.  Howland lost to Texas A&M by 1 point and he lost to Kentucky at Kentucky by 6 points.  Howland did that with mostly not his own players.

He certainly did a lot better against A&M and Kentucky than we did.

[PonderinHog]

Nope.  Howland lost to Texas A&M by 1 point and he lost to Kentucky at Kentucky by 6 points.  Howland did that with mostly not his own players.

He certainly did a lot better against A&M and Kentucky than we did.

Can't wait till we play them.  Oh wait!

[GoHogs1091]

Can't wait till we play them.  Oh wait!

Here is Howland's win-loss record in year 3 at his last 2 locations.

Pittsburgh   29-6

UCLA   32-7

That recruiting class he has coming into Starkville is no joke.

[Letsroll1200]

Here is Howland's win-loss record in year 3 at his last 2 locations.

Pittsburgh   29-6

UCLA   32-7

That recruiting class he has coming into Starkville is no joke.

Why does he keep getting fired?

[GoHogs1091]

Why does he keep getting fired?

Not very wise Athletic Directors is probably the main reason.

[Letsroll1200]

Not very wise Athletic Directors is probably the main reason.

Hmmmm. What happen at UCLA?

[HawgAdvocate]

Why does he keep getting fired?

Keep? Wha? Pretty sure he was fired at UCLA with a .685 winning %, three final fours & four conference titles in ten seasons. He has 12+ former players in the NBA. Who else fired him?

[Wild Bill Hog]

Why does he keep getting fired?

Maybe people at his previous universities expect better - you know, like not being willing to just settle for.  Just a guess.

[Letsroll1200]

Keep? Wha? Pretty sure he was fired at UCLA with a .685 winning %, three final fours & four conference titles in ten seasons. He has 12+ former players in the NBA. Who else fired him?

UCLA!!! Come on its UCLA.

[HawgAdvocate]

UCLA!!! Come on its UCLA.

It's Los Angeles. UCLA basketball might be the 6th or 7th hottest ticket in town. They got impatient, wanted to get younger, and made a move. He still did great things that 95% of all current D-I coaches couldn't touch.

Howland certainly out-performed his predecessor.

[Wild Bill Hog]

UCLA!!! Come on its UCLA.

Well, they do have a tradition and expectations.

[Letsroll1200]

It's Los Angeles. UCLA basketball might be the 6th or 7th hottest ticket in town. They got impatient, wanted to get younger, and made a move. He still did great things that 95% of all current D-I coaches couldn't touch.

Howland certainly out-performed his predecessor.

His last 5 years got him canned!!!! Arkansas is not UCLA. It's not hard to recruit to LA. I enjoyed beating Miss. State this season. Let's just hope he has a better record than MA did his first season.

[HawgAdvocate]

His last 5 years got him canned!!!! Arkansas is not UCLA.

Oh, there's no doubt there. Arkansas ain't Los Angeles. But Howland still made the dance in 3 of those final five seasons and won 61% of his games.

[Iwastherein1969]

Marcus is probably the one getting the bennies, not Malik.

Marcus is the Benedict Arnold of Razorback Sports. The other kids like Tenpenny, Dyer, etc left because of a direct relationship between themselves and the institution they decided to blow-off the Hogs for. But Marcus "I played at Arkansas for 4 years Monk" was one of our own. Marcus put on the cardinal and white and sold it to John Calipari for 30 pieces of silver.  Marcus Monk, as far as I'm concerned, the #85 from the 4 years you played at the UA should be stricken from the record.     So let it be written, so let it be done.