This Team Is Better Than I Expected

[azhog10]

Their play is better than expected in other ways, too.  I believe they out-rebounded LSU the other night, which shocked me out of my chair.  That's a very positive development.

We are rebounding better, and I think we are doing things we maybe didn't have to do in the past to stay competitive that now we HAVE To do if we want to stay competitive. Rebounding and less full court pressure defense are two that come to mind.

[Captain Morgan]

We are rebounding better, and I think we are doing things we maybe didn't have to do in the past to stay competitive that now we HAVE To do if we want to stay competitive. Rebounding and less full court pressure defense are two that come to mind.

The real weakness of this team is the grabbing and slapping of other players hands. Those are fouls and will almost always be called on the road. If we could discipline ourselves out of that, then this team has a shot at the NIT. But we must be more disciplined on defense. Cut down the hand checks and cut down on the unnneccesary fouling. 

[nwahogfan1]

I know "moral victories" are pretty hollow deals, but other than the TAMU disaster, this team is playing at a much higher level than I ever expected.

If Mike can keep improving this crew, they could accidently find a way to slip back into the tourney.  While I'm not really expecting that to happen, it is still worthy of comment that they are playing at that level.

They were very close to beating a respectable, talented team on the road last night, and didn't even play all that great. 

One other comment: Johnny Jones is not much of a coach IMO.  Great recruiter apparently, but not much of a coach.

When we set our sights low then it is easy to be happy.  I understand when apathy sets in then you just want to be entertained but really are we a top 25 team?   Isn't this where we were hoping to be in year 5 of CMA? 

[hawginbigd1]

This team is better than I thought it would be, because Hannahs is more versatile offensively than I believed, and Kingsley has improved defensively! However the record I predicted for now was like 12-5, go figure, on the way to 18 wins.

[bigdaddyhawg]

When we set our sights low then it is easy to be happy.  I understand when apathy sets in then you just want to be entertained but really are we a top 25 team?   Isn't this where we were hoping to be in year 5 of CMA?

I think your point has merit.  But that perspective of things has been discussed (by many others, including myself) ad nauseaum.  I was just trying to share a little different perspective.

No appeasement of the Mike Anderson Sycophant Army intended.

[HoopS]

I think your point has merit.  But that perspective of things has been discussed (by many others, including myself) ad nauseaum.  I was just trying to share a little different perspective.

No appeasement of the Mike Anderson Sycophant Army intended.

just curious who these "sycophants" we keep seeing brought up are. Who is here kissing MA's butt trying to gain favor with him?

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

just curious who these "sycophants" we keep seeing brought up are. Who is here kissing MA's butt trying to gain favor with him?

It's an army.

[bigdaddyhawg]

just curious who these "sycophants" we keep seeing brought up are. Who is here kissing MA's butt trying to gain favor with him?

If you pay even a little bit of attention it's easy to see who is more concerned with loving on Mike than they are what's going on with the program.  OR, perhaps they see the Razorback program and Mike are one and the same.

At any point, His Sycophant Army puts in whatever energy in whatever direction is needed to take deflect ANY criticism of our HC.

[HoopS]

Meh

[bigdaddyhawg]

Meh

Meh, too.

[HoopS]

I'm sure those sycophants are just here to earn favor with coach. Somehow. It couldn't be that they just see things differently than the Legion of Goons.

[HawgAdvocate]

It couldn't be that they just see things differently than the Legion of Goons.

At any point, His Sycophant Army puts in whatever energy in whatever direction is needed to take deflect ANY criticism of our HC.

Are either of these organizations licensed, dues-paying members of the Guild of Calamitous Intent?

Because if not, this thread is going nowhere. (Go Team Venture!)

[HoopS]

I don't know. I'm just here to watch the battle.

[wheelspigharvey]

Are either of these organizations licensed, dues-paying members of the Guild of Calamitous Intent?

Because if not, this thread is going nowhere. (Go Team Venture!)

No, the Goon Squad can't be, because we always hear them complaining about how much money they personally pump into Mike's pocket and thus deserve to see better results.  Guild Dues are not cheap.  Long live the Sovereign by the way:

[hogsanity]

what is funny is both " groups" believe the same thing, Mike Anderson is a good guy, and a good coach. One group, however, feels the need to post about his virtues after every game, as if losing on the road at Baton Rouge was somehow going to be seen as ruining his legacy, or that winning by 33 in Columbia against a wretched Mizzu team makes him a HOFer.

If seeing MA roaming the sideline, and making the ncaat or being on the bubble 6 of every 10 years is your goal, then Mike's your man. If not, you are jacked because he isn't going anywhere.

[HoopS]

what is funny is both " groups" believe the same thing, Mike Anderson is a good guy, and a good coach. One group, however, feels the need to post about his virtues after every game, as if losing on the road at Baton Rouge was somehow going to be seen as ruining his legacy, or that winning by 33 in Columbia against a wretched Mizzu team makes him a HOFer.

and the other group ________

[wheelspigharvey]

and the other group ________

Says we should have won by 35 at Mizzou, so it might as well be a loss.

[hogsanity]

and the other group ________

usually says nothing, and definitely feels no need to start threads, because they will get called racists and haters, and be threatened with being banned from the entire site.

[HoopS]

You think the fact many of them have been complaining for months has anything to do with either reaction?

[wheelspigharvey]

usually says nothing, and definitely feels no need to start threads, because they will get called racists and haters, and be threatened with being banned from the entire site.

You might be alone on that one. 

[hogsanity]

You think the fact many of them have been complaining for months has anything to do with either reaction?

I just get tired of seeing threads like " I like our coach! " pop up after a loss.

I think they have played well the last 4 games, even in the loss at LSU, but right now they are still on pace for what many predicted, 16-18 wins, which is pretty disappointing after last season.

I said it months ago, and I meant it, if this team somehow won 22 games, Mike should be COTY. 

[razorhead94]

what is funny is both " groups" believe the same thing, Mike Anderson is a good guy, and a good coach. One group, however, feels the need to post about his virtues after every game, as if losing on the road at Baton Rouge was somehow going to be seen as ruining his legacy, or that winning by 33 in Columbia against a wretched Mizzu team makes him a HOFer.

If seeing MA roaming the sideline, and making the ncaat or being on the bubble 6 of every 10 years is your goal, then Mike's your man. If not, you are jacked because he isn't going anywhere.

If you up that to 8 out of 10 then I agree with this.  It has taken us a while to get out of this hole arkansas basketball got itself in.  If you go to the tournament 4 out of every 5 years, then I believe that's acceptable and a few of those years you should be expected to go deep in the tournament.  That leaves 1 year of rebuild.  I will give Mike 3 years to get the program back to stability to where its expected to reach NCAA tourneys annually, and then we can start this term that you are talking about (8 out of 10).

So, starting last year we made the tournament.  This year I don't expect us to so we will be 1 out of 2.  Under this scenario, I expect him to make the tournament the next 3 years in a row to get to 4 out of 5.  If not I will be disappointed.  I think that is pretty reasonable for where the program is now.  And Mike has had a lot to do with that rebuild.

[hogsanity]

If you up that to 8 out of 10 then I agree with this.  It has taken us a while to get out of this hole arkansas basketball got itself in.  If you go to the tournament 4 out of every 5 years then I believe that's acceptable and a few of those years should be expected to go deep in the tournament.  I will give Mike 3 years to get the program back to stability and then we can start this term that you are talking about (8 out of 10).

So, starting last year we made the tournament.  This year I don't expect us to so we will be 1 out of 2.  Under this scenario I expect him to make the tournament the next 3 years in a row to get to 4 out of 5.  If not I will be disappointed.  I think that is pretty reasonable.

So the 1st three years of Mike's tenure didn't count? It won't be 4 out of 5, it will be 4 out of 8. To make 8 out of 10, well, they cant make 8 out of 10 for his 1st 10 years. Actually, to get the 8 out 10 number, you will probably have to start with next year. If you start with last year, that means they will have to make it 7 out of the next 8, assuming nothing this year.

But again, I think most people are willing to accept much lower returns than they would with any other coach, simply because it makes them feel good to see Mike on the sideline. If so, that is fine, but they have to realize not everyone feels that way.  Some feel the program is capable of much more with the right guy, but that guy has got to be a knockout recruiter, and not even Mike's most ardent supporters think he is that.

Mike is a great guy, good coach, poor recruiter, and that combo gets you a clean program that is safely in the ncaat 2 or 4 times, on the bubble 2 or 3 times, and out of the big dance the rest of any given 10 yr period.

[wheelspigharvey]

I just get tired of seeing threads like " I like our coach! " pop up after a loss.

I think they have played well the last 4 games, even in the loss at LSU, but right now they are still on pace for what many predicted, 16-18 wins, which is pretty disappointing after last season.

I said it months ago, and I meant it, if this team somehow won 22 games, Mike should be COTY.

I just get tired of people doing this:

If looks bad, it is bad, and it's Mike's fault. (see all roster problems being the same problem to them, nothing there being case-by-case)
If looks good, let's re-frame it to make it look less impressive. (see the 3-1 start or going back to last year, the 27-9 record of team or even the 13-5 SEC record)
If we can't do that, let's try to make it look like someone other than Mike deserves the credit. (see people talking about how Kinglsey was going to Kingsley with or without Mike, or how X or Y good recruit was always an easy get or how Hannahs shouldn't have had to transfer)

You can do this with virtually anything that has happened in his tenure here.  This is the MO of the Guild of Haters, and it will probably continue here until he's gone, even if X or Y arbitrary threshold of success is accomplished. 

[HoopS]

I just get tired of seeing threads like " I like our coach! " pop up after a loss.

but this is a fan board for the Hogs. He's the coach. He will absolutely get support from many fans for as long as he's here. When the team falters, many fans want to be there and let them know we still believe in them and in coach.

[bvillepig]

Most of the positive group have an "opinion" that there are only a handful of coaches that could have done a better job than Mike given the same set of circumstances.  They already had jobs at elite universities.

The other point is that most believe that he will make more than 1 tournament every five years going forward. If he doesn't he will be gone and we will see who the next guy is.  Either way the overall state of the program is better for the next guy than it was for him.

[Rocky&Boarwinkle]

I think the root of the problem is the "instant" society we live in.  Many of the legends of basketball coaching wouldn't be at the schools we know them for.  Dean Smith, Coach K and Nolan had very poor records when they started out at N.C., Duke, Arkansas.  Smith went 8-9, 12-12 and 15-9 in 3 of his first 4 years.  Coach K had one good season of 20-8 but also went 11-14, 19-9, 14-11, 11-17, 10-17, 9-17 all in his first 8 years.  The 11-17 and 10-17 were in year 7 and 8.  And of course Nolan went 12-16 19-14 before he got it cranking and won in the 20-30 games a year clip.

My point is, we would be screaming bloody murder to fire a coach K with the type of mentality here these days.  I know part of it is the salaries and the big business it has become, but the fact is that establishing a system and a program is not as easy as some on here think it is.  That being said, Mike's recruiting has not been up to the level of the snake oil salesmen like Calipari.  That is a given.  I think Mike does not like the AAU system and does not like playing the game of handlers, etc.  And that moral compass is why I like him personally, but I can see where this is going to be a problem going forward if the NCAA continues to let this go on in basketball.

[hogsanity]

Most of the positive group have an "opinion" that there are only a handful of coaches that could have done a better job than Mike given the same set of circumstances.  They already had jobs at elite universities.

The other point is that most believe that he will make more than 1 tournament every five years going forward. If he doesn't he will be gone and we will see who the next guy is.  Either way the overall state of the program is better for the next guy than it was for him.

There were many open jobs the same year he came here, A&M, Oklahoma, Maryland, South Carolina came open the next year. None of those were in great shape, but all are doing very very well this season. OU was ranked #1 for about 5 minutes, A&M will be back in the top 10 next week. SC is doing well, although somewhat a product of a weak schedule, Maryland is pretty good. There were coaches to be had, but the Hogs never asked, they were after 1 guy and one guy only. 

[Sharky]

I just get tired of people doing this:

If looks bad, it is bad, and it's Mike's fault. (see all roster problems being the same problem to them, nothing there being case-by-case)
If looks good, let's re-frame it to make it look less impressive. (see the 3-1 start or going back to last year, the 27-9 record of team or even the 13-5 SEC record)
If we can't do that, let's try to make it look like someone other than Mike deserves the credit. (see people talking about how Kinglsey was going to Kingsley with or without Mike, or how X or Y good recruit was always an easy get or how Hannahs shouldn't have had to transfer)

You can do this with virtually anything that has happened in his tenure here.  This is the MO of the Guild of Haters, and it will probably continue here until he's gone, even if X or Y arbitrary threshold of success is accomplished.

Seems to me like its more of the opposite.

If we defeat a mediocre team, people claim its a great win--like us starting 3-1 in SEC play with one OT win over a decent team and two wins over sub-150 RPI teams. Now some people are expecting those same results as we hit a much more difficult part of the schedule.

No matter the opponent, the other team is always better than expected and likely to do great things, that way if we lose we lost to underrated team, and if we win we defeated a giant.

If we don't have a tourney-invite season, there are a million excuses for CMA, from it was the refs to we need a practice facility to its the fans' fault. Coaches salary doesn't equate to a winning record...who else could we get? Mike has history here. This team is fun to watch. blah blah blah

THIS season, people are talking about how great we're playing--but we hardly have any quality wins (Evansville and Vandy, both not in the top 50). Even LSU, a game we should have won, isn't a very good a team (RPI 106). Yes, we can dismantle bad teams. But the real test is ahead. Can we beat a tournament-quality team--I have no idea, and you don't either, because we haven't yet.

Razorbacks aren't complaining without reason, and that doesn't make them any less of a fan. Lose tonight and we're a .500 team on pace to well under, given the teams that are coming. Is that good enough for you? Okay, maybe it's a down year. Maybe it does take time to rebuild a program. But it's silly to say people don't have a right to expect more from the 20th highest paid coach in the nation during his fifth season here. Winning cures all complaints. Forgive me for not being excited about mediocre. I want to WIN, not just blow bad teams out of the water because it is fun to watch (although I do want that, too). I want to DANCE every year. I want us to be in the top 3 in the SEC, consistently. We're not there yet. That fantasy looks pretty far away to me.

Maybe tonight is the start of something good ... or maybe next year ... or the next

[razorhead94]

So the 1st three years of Mike's tenure didn't count? It won't be 4 out of 5, it will be 4 out of 8. To make 8 out of 10, well, they cant make 8 out of 10 for his 1st 10 years. Actually, to get the 8 out 10 number, you will probably have to start with next year. If you start with last year, that means they will have to make it 7 out of the next 8, assuming nothing this year.

But again, I think most people are willing to accept much lower returns than they would with any other coach, simply because it makes them feel good to see Mike on the sideline. If so, that is fine, but they have to realize not everyone feels that way.  Some feel the program is capable of much more with the right guy, but that guy has got to be a knockout recruiter, and not even Mike's most ardent supporters think he is that.

Mike is a great guy, good coach, poor recruiter, and that combo gets you a clean program that is safely in the ncaat 2 or 4 times, on the bubble 2 or 3 times, and out of the big dance the rest of any given 10 yr period.

Well if you would read my explanation then you see why I said it.  I expect those numbers for ARKANSAS once the program is STABLE to be able to achieve them.  8 out of 10 is pretty good for a basketball program.

[HoopS]

I'm not a bit impressed with us tonight. This stinks. And Ky isn't playing worth a crap and we are down 12. Absolutely pissed with this team right now. And yes, our coach too. I'd have already been teched up early in this one. Some tough calls but make no mistake, our team looks lifeless. Uninspired. And if this is what Mike Anderson is bringing, I won't be staying behind him. Believe that.

[Sharky]

I'm not a bit impressed with us tonight. This stinks. And Ky isn't playing worth a crap and we are down 12. Absolutely pissed with this team right now. And yes, our coach too. I'd have already been teched up early in this one. Some tough calls but make no mistake, our team looks lifeless. Uninspired. And if this is what Mike Anderson is bringing, I won't be staying behind him. Believe that.

We don't have the talent to compete with UK this year, and anyone who thought otherwise was letting idealism override logic. UK only had 6 turnovers, and if we aren't forcing them, we're going to get beat.

Mizzou and Miss St are terrible (worse than Tennessee Tech terrible), LSU is mediocre, and Vandy is decent but still no where near ranked, and we barely beat them at home. We just aren't that good, but it could be a lot worse. Being middle-of-pack is important--we can still draw recruits.

Plus, e still have a good shot of being a middle-of-the-pack SEC team, and that might mean an invite to the NIT. Experience matters.

[ErieHog]

We're going to shoot our way into a lot of competitive games against better talent; we're also going to shoot our way out of a few, to some real clunkers.   

This would be exactly the sort of clunker I mentioned.

[nwahogfan1]

I'm not a bit impressed with us tonight. This stinks. And Ky isn't playing worth a crap and we are down 12. Absolutely pissed with this team right now. And yes, our coach too. I'd have already been teched up early in this one. Some tough calls but make no mistake, our team looks lifeless. Uninspired. And if this is what Mike Anderson is bringing, I won't be staying behind him. Believe that.

We needed a coach to get in the face of someone either a referee or a player and get this team fired up.  If Coach is not that type of coach then he needs a player on the team to get them fired up.  Pitiful,  almost looked like we were intimidated by the name on the jersey.  What did we shoot from behind the arc?  wasn't it like 2-14 or something like that.  Isn't this a strength of ours?   Georgia is no cake walk.  If we play like this on Saturday at their place it will be another loss.

Oh well?  We have a big football recruiting weekend and then Spring football and baseball isn't too far off.

[Wild Bill Hog]

We don't have the talent to compete with UK this year, and anyone who thought otherwise was letting idealism override logic. UK only had 6 turnovers, and if we aren't forcing them, we're going to get beat.

Mizzou and Miss St are terrible (worse than Tennessee Tech terrible), LSU is mediocre, and Vandy is decent but still no where near ranked, and we barely beat them at home. We just aren't that good, but it could be a lot worse. Being middle-of-pack is important--we can still draw recruits.

Plus, e still have a good shot of being a middle-of-the-pack SEC team, and that might mean an invite to the NIT. Experience matters.

Didn't LSU beat this Kentucky team?

[EastexHawg]

But again, I think most people are willing to accept much lower returns than they would with any other coach, simply because it makes them feel good to see Mike on the sideline. If so, that is fine, but they have to realize not everyone feels that way.  Some feel the program is capable of much more with the right guy, but that guy has got to be a knockout recruiter, and not even Mike's most ardent supporters think he is that.

This pretty well sums it up.  I can remember when Arkansas basketball was mediocre despite putting talents like Martin Terry and Dean Tolson on the floor. If we had decided that the program probably wasn't going to do much better than Lanny Van Eman we would have never found out what Eddie Sutton could do.

The weakest argument of all is "if you think Mike is so bad just how would you do any better?!!"

Really?

[Champs04]

Get better assistants that can recruit? That would possibly help!

[wheelspigharvey]

Not a good game last night.  Still think we can be playing in the post-season, but we have a lot of work to do.  We did get out-coached and our team did not play to their own strengths. They hung with us when we tried to push the tempo so we went the other way and slowed it down too often.  I actually didn't think we'd win last night, but I thought it might have been close.  I think we played a little better than the margin says.

On the subject of Mike and what to do about the coaching staff, we all know for better or worse that Mike has the support of Long at least until the end of next season, so we might as well strap in.  I believe we are set up to be very good next year, so maybe some of you will be able to find it in yourselves to enjoy that when it happens.

[hogsanity]

Typical of most of Mikes teams, awesome scoring until they meet someone who can stuff the guards. Last night, hogs held Ky to 18 points in the 1st 11 minutes and TRAILED BY 9. That's right, the highest scoring team in the universe, according to some here, scored 9 points in 11 minutes.  And old Mike just stands there with that same confused look he always has when things go south. 

[Big Boi]

If Auburn passes us up in basketball over the next two years it'll be time for CMA to go

[wheelspigharvey]

Next year I expect us to be really good, like we should be a tournament lock all the way through, and expect at least one tournament win.  I also expect the year after to be a good one too.  I think this is perfect, because it's the sustained success we're looking for (that's three appearances in four years, four post-seasons in five years) AND the haters get to keep complaining because he still didn't get us turned around fast enough.  Everyone's happy.

[Big Boi]

Would you please enlighten the rest of us on your optimism for next year.

[hogsanity]

Next year I expect us to be really good, like we should be a tournament lock all the way through, and expect at least one tournament win.  I also expect the year after to be a good one too.  I think this is perfect, because it's the sustained success we're looking for (that's three appearances in four years, four post-seasons in five years) AND the haters get to keep complaining because he still didn't get us turned around fast enough.  Everyone's happy.

No thats 3 appearances in 8 years, or are we now going to pretend 11/12 12/13 and 13/14 seasons did not exist.

[Captain Morgan]

At any point, His Sycophant Army puts in whatever energy in whatever direction is needed to take deflect ANY criticism of our HC.

This is by far the biggest issue of them all. Too many in the fan base put the coach ahead of the university and the program.  It can never be the coaches fault (even if he plays 4 small guards at one time). To some the fault will always fall on the referees and the fans

[wheelspigharvey]

Would you please enlighten the rest of us on your optimism for next year.

The returning players (who are playing solid despite the W-L record) will have another year of experience and the recruits we have coming in will provide a deep bench.

[wheelspigharvey]

No thats 3 appearances in 8 years, or are we now going to pretend 11/12 12/13 and 13/14 seasons did not exist.

We can't go back and re-do the first two years.  That's always going to affect some of you guys' vision of where we are and where we could be.  Two seasons during a re-build after a near-catastrophic decade where we didn't win enough games, two seasons where the AD himself said he didn't care about the W-L record mean that Mike will never be any good in your eyes.  Think about that.

[wheelspigharvey]

We're dancing the next two seasons and some of you guys will still be belly-aching.  Book it.

[Kevin]

We're dancing the next two seasons and some of you guys will still be belly-aching.  Book it.

Hope those juco players, don't take too much time to acclimate to sec basketball

[Atlhogfan1]

Hope those juco players, don't take too much time to accommodate to sec basketball

First hope they make it to campus and are on the team. 

[Rocky&Boarwinkle]

Hope those juco players, don't take too much time to accommodate to sec basketball

do you mean acclimate?  I don't want them accommodating any other SEC basketball.