Does negative posting hurt our recruiting?

[razorback4ever]

I wanted to get the opinions of the members of this board, especially the ones who read but rarely post a reply. It is my opinion that certain members of this board are actually hurting the U of A's recruiting efforts with their constant coach bashing and negative post around the clock, and I want to see if the majority of people reading this board feel the same as I do. People from across the country, including many potential recruits read this board. I feel these negative posters are giving anyone who reads this board a misleading and damaging impression of the U of A and it's fan base, and it is a view I feel the majority of members disagree with, but don't say so for fear of getting blasted.

So the question to you is............Do you feel negative internet posting can be damaging to a schools recruiting efforts? And if so, how?

Remember, this is a question to who I believe are the majority, not the minority who seem to dominate this board with a "anything HDN touches is crap" attitude. I already know how you feel.

Thanks,
razorback4ever

[ferrellhog]

yes I do beleive constant bashing of a coach or player on boards like this can have adverse repercussions!!!! I understand fans vocalising ther discontent but when it becomes 20 to 35 threads that are doing nothing but nutt bashing it not only gets old ,IT makes the people on this board look like whiners

[nwarazfan]

"You know, those dang message board posters are just so negative.  It hurts us, it really does.  When I go into homes and have to explain to mommas and daddies that those people are just part of a 5% who will always be unhappy, its difficult.  I'm trying to tell them how special a place the Univ of Arkansas is, and what it means to be a Razorback, to have that Hog on the helmet-man I love that helmet!-.  We have just had so much to work through while I've been here from the cloud to players leaving early to now these dang negative message board posters." - Houston Dale whining about those speaking the truth about his program.

[Richard_white]

I wanted to get the opinions of the members of this board, especially the ones who read but rarely post a reply. It is my opinion that certain members of this board are actually hurting the U of A's recruiting efforts with their constant coach bashing and negative post around the clock, and I want to see if the majority of people reading this board feel the same as I do. People from across the country, including many potential recruits read this board. I feel these negative posters are giving anyone who reads this board a misleading and damaging impression of the U of A and it's fan base, and it is a view I feel the majority of members disagree with, but don't say so for fear of getting blasted.

So the question to you is............Do you feel negative internet posting can be damaging to a schools recruiting efforts? And if so, how?

Remember, this is a question to who I believe are the majority, not the minority who seem to dominate this board with a "anything HDN touches is crap" attitude. I already know how you feel.

Thanks,
razorback4ever

Hell yes it does.  That is the reason why recruits can't remember who is recruiting them.  It's the reason why they don't keep in contact with some recruits.  Damn internet.  sarcasm

[SPAL]

I wanted to get the opinions of the members of this board, especially the ones who read but rarely post a reply. It is my opinion that certain members of this board are actually hurting the U of A's recruiting efforts with their constant coach bashing and negative post around the clock, and I want to see if the majority of people reading this board feel the same as I do. People from across the country, including many potential recruits read this board. I feel these negative posters are giving anyone who reads this board a misleading and damaging impression of the U of A and it's fan base, and it is a view I feel the majority of members disagree with, but don't say so for fear of getting blasted.

So the question to you is............Do you feel negative internet posting can be damaging to a schools recruiting efforts? And if so, how?

Remember, this is a question to who I believe are the majority, not the minority who seem to dominate this board with a "anything HDN touches is crap" attitude. I already know how you feel.

Thanks,
razorback4ever

I dont think it hurts recruiting as bad as winning 4 games in a season does. It also doesnt hurt as bad as kids not being able for the life of them to remember the coach that is recruiting him.  If we were winning 9 and 10 games in a season, we wouldnt even be havin this convo, but we arent, and thats whats hurting recruiting.

[cubbie]

It does some, but I think most recruits realize that it is just a bunch of old men giving their opinions, because they have nothing better to do.

[Hogstocking]

http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php/topic,23279.0.html

[nwarazfan]

http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php/topic,23279.0.html

What's your point?

[Boared]

Negative posting about Nutt--not so much of a factor (to me). All kids have to do is look at the record the last couple of years and lack of success in going to major bowls to know that all is not well. I would think kids would be more concerned with who's directly recruiting them or their position coach than what people say about a guy who they won't always have constant contact with.

I was the one who originally suggested the rule stickied at the top (I was "Boared" in my prior Hogville persona). It's because recruits were being criticized at the time (the same way they're having negative things inferred about them right now).

Knocking recruits or complaining about their lack of offers from other major programs--I would think that would hurt recruiting as much as anything. Look, you're a recruit who's being looked at (or better yet, offered) and you read how someone posting here is bitching because you're not on the radar of any of the powerhouses. So instead of looking forward to the possibility of playing here, you're being cracked on before you even commit.

Oh, I know some of you say that this is a forum and that's what opinions are for, but bringing down a high school kid because you have nothing else better to do or don't like who is being recruited is somewhat chickenshit. You wouldn't want your son having this crap spewed about him. Yes, we'd love to be in contention with schools like Notre darned, LSU, Ohio State, Miami, etc. but after a couple of losing seasons what the hell do you expect ? This isn't mighty Arkansas from the SWC anymore, it's a program mired in mediocrity right now (and I hate that). It doesn't have that allure for a lot of kids (unless they grew up as Hog fans such as McFadden & Norman) that more successful programs do. But constantly questioning why certain kids are being recruited doesn't help the situation either.

[Bacon The Saddle Again]

The truthful answer is....we just don't know.  We really don't.  Anyone who says they unequivically know that it does or not help recruiting is speaking without firsthand knowledge.  I just know it doesn't help.  I'm not sure if he hurts or not.

[GrizzledHogFan]

It's difficult to say that it definitely hurts recruiting, but it's not likely to help.  What we do know is this:
1) There are a multitude of factors that have a much bigger impact on recruiting than message board posts
2) Pretty much every program has message boards with negative posts about some aspect of the program

[bigred7987]

simply put
YES

[AFWarrior83]

It doesn't help I know that much...

[hogsmaster]

It doesn't help I know that much...

So true.

[TuckFexas]

Negative posting about Nutt--not so much of a factor (to me). All kids have to do is look at the record the last couple of years and lack of success in going to major bowls to know that all is not well. I would think kids would be more concerned with who's directly recruiting them or their position coach than what people say about a guy who they won't always have constant contact with.

I was the one who originally suggested the rule stickied at the top (I was "Boared" in my prior Hogville persona). It's because recruits were being criticized at the time (the same way they're having negative things inferred about them right now).

Knocking recruits or complaining about their lack of offers from other major programs--I would think that would hurt recruiting as much as anything. Look, you're a recruit who's being looked at (or better yet, offered) and you read how someone posting here is bitching because you're not on the radar of any of the powerhouses. So instead of looking forward to the possibility of playing here, you're being cracked on before you even commit.

Oh, I know some of you say that this is a forum and that's what opinions are for, but bringing down a high school kid because you have nothing else better to do or don't like who is being recruited is somewhat chickenshit. You wouldn't want your son having this crap spewed about him. Yes, we'd love to be in contention with schools like Notre darned, LSU, Ohio State, Miami, etc. but after a couple of losing seasons what the hell do you expect ? This isn't mighty Arkansas from the SWC anymore, it's a program mired in mediocrity right now (and I hate that). It doesn't have that allure for a lot of kids (unless they grew up as Hog fans such as McFadden & Norman) that more successful programs do. But constantly questioning why certain kids are being recruited doesn't help the situation either.

Great post Turd. I agree 100%

[sowmonella]

When it becomes an over the top obsession by a large number of posters to constantly beat the fire the coach drum it hurts recruiting. I would love to show an 18 year old athlete message boards claiming my competitors head coach was getting canned. "I wouldn't want take a chance with a new group of coaches coming in next year".

[Oklahawg]

Any player worth recruiting better develop thick skin. They must realize that they are a glorified mercenary for the University athletic department. They must understand that they are at ground zero of public debate. They better understand that the same fans who can't conjugate verbs in their bile-spewing internet explosion also buy tickets and parking passes, paying for that scholie.

Any player worth recruiting better memorize, early, the coaches maxim: a coach is hired only for the opportunity to later fire them. There are darn few schools that have things going so well there is no controversy or scandal to sort through.  Unless you are one of the 200, or so, kids who'll sign with the tip-top schools that are also squeaky clean...and unless you are in the top group of those recruiting classes...get ready for unreasonably high expectations and scandalously short vision, paired with an intolerance for anything short of legendary performance.

Bobby Bowden once said that he only has about 10 kids per class who ever really contribute to his teams. A few more might see the field and help. The rest are lost, regrettably, but they are lost. Its a crapshoot who they are, and players need to understand that they are entering a highly competitive arena where more fail than succeed.

Just like the Kodi Burns quote about Mitch Mustain: I love it! I WANT players with the moxie to compete with the very best. I worry about a QB or RB who doesn't want to compete with Mitch or the stable or RBs at UA. Ryan Mallett? Grow a set, boy, and come up and compete with the best. Is that last sentence unfair? Sure! But, it symbolizes the stiff neck, thick skin, and muted hearing that players must develop very, very quickly.

[dmhog v2.0]

No.

[Sao Ming]

I am on the fence about the kid's being turned away with some of the written word here or at any Hog message board.  I do however firmly believe that if a mom with internet access reads a board, there may be some issues. 

Put it like this, if RJ's mom is reading the 'Rumor' post on MMQB tonight, she is mortified that anyone would talk about her baby like that.  Gauranteed.  On the other hand, RJ's mom might just come to the Hill, grab her son by the ear and direct him to the practice field for some reps and a little stair climbing.  Motivation you see...sometimes you get it, sometimes you don't. 

Bottomline - if you are 18 and you sign with any D1 program you better be up for the arse kickings you are about to receive, on and off the field.  The worst ones don't come from the fans either.  It's guys like Wood who will make them cry first, when they don't do as he (and mommy) told him to do. 

[Richard_white]

I got it.  That is the reason why BG didn't committ to Arkansas.  I thought it was just because Arkansas wasn't interested in him.  I believe they have a 1 star RB they are trying to committ.

[willkhitey]

It can't help.

[dotnet]

I don't think that it can help either.  At the same time, everyone bashed Stan for most of the basketball season and he still has recruited a solid class last year.

[fool_on_the_hill]

so your saying for example some auburn booster can come in here and post under the name "boars head pub"  bash and twist facts to make arkansas look bad thats suppose to affect recruiting

[sowmonella]

No but 50 could post here every day and it wouldn't help recruiting.

[SultanofSwine]

Wonder if TRG could work that into an interview or two and get recruits perspective?

[Tusks]

Ok if it hurts recruiting then how did Ron Zook recruit, I believe, 2 top 5 recruiting classes while there was a web site being operated called www.fireronzook.com?  That is the ultimate negative posting.  He was never embraced by the fans and had an up hill battle from the beginning but he still recruited very well.  I don't believe he had a class ranked lower than any of the best Arkansas classes in the last 12 years.

[jabohog]

I think we have a certain QB that used to read and post on here. His Mom did too, if I'm not mistaken. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think negative posting was the reason for the commit/decommit ordeal. He is committed to UofA now and the board was probably at a lot worse negativity then, than now. These kids are a lot smarter than some of you give them credit for. This is probably more entertaining to them than harmful. Now attacking a kid personally or his family is wrong and hSv has strict rules about that.

[willkhitey]

Ok if it hurts recruiting then how did Ron Zook recruit, I believe, 2 top 5 recruiting classes while there was a web site being operated called www.fireronzook.com?  That is the ultimate negative posting.  He was never embraced by the fans and had an up hill battle from the beginning but he still recruited very well.  I don't believe he had a class ranked lower than any of the best Arkansas classes in the last 12 years.

No simple answer but..............

Florida is an established top-tier program. It basically recruits itself.

Additionally, there's a big difference between bashing a coach and bashing a player. None of it helps, but personally, if I was being recruited and I heard fans throwing players under the bus on state-wide talk radio or on message boards, I'd certainly think twice about committing there.

But maybe that's just me.

[tbhogfan]

There are few, if any top-notch programs that do not have something like Hogville nowadays.

If you read them, you will quickly find out what total idiots Mark Richt, Steve Spurrier, Urban Meyer are.  You will find that Joe Pa and Bobby Bowden are over the hill.  Bob Stoops can't win with his own recruits.  Fulmer... Don't even go there.

Bottom line: if a recruit is not going to consider going to Arkansas, Georgia, Florida, Penn St, Notre Dame, FSU, Oklahoma, USC, etc.. on a full ride because of something some anonymous yutz said on a message board, then that recruit is not bright enough to make it in college anyway.

[Hawgballz]

The problem occurs when in an obsessed attempt to bash the coach in flows over into bashing players or recruits.  Having listened to a lot of 16 & 17 year old kids, IT DOES HURT OUR IMAGE, but it is common at most major programs now days.

[willkhitey]

There are few, if any top-notch programs that do not have something like Hogville nowadays.

If you read them, you will quickly find out what total idiots Mark Richt, Steve Spurrier, Urban Meyer are.  You will find that Joe Pa and Bobby Bowden are over the hill.  Bob Stoops can't win with his own recruits.  Fulmer... Don't even go there.

Bottom line: if a recruit is not going to consider going to Arkansas, Georgia, Florida, Penn St, Notre Dame, FSU, Oklahoma, USC, etc.. on a full ride because of something some anonymous yutz said on a message board, then that recruit is not bright enough to make it in college anyway.

Sure everybody has message boards, but I challenge you to find the level of negativity anywhere that is displayed by Hog fans. Of course back-to-back losing season has a lot to do with that, but........

Having lived in three SEC towns and having spent substantial time in many others I can honestly say that I've never witnessed as much bashing of ***players*** and coaches as I've seen and heard coming out of Arkansas. The Cutcliffe fiasco was pretty hardcore in Oxford, they weren't very high on Shula in Tuscaloosa before last year, and Tuberville was on his way out in Auburn before CW and RB saved his skin, still the venom coming from *some* Hog fans is nearly unmatched.

It's not that "some yutz" on a msg board says something. It's that incredible numbers of yutzes say something over and over and over, ad nauseam.

Btw, I challenge to you find anybody in NE GA that says Richt is a "total idiot," much less bashing players the way RJ, J. Modica, E. Ferguson, and D. Jefferson, among others, have been.

The bad-mouthing of players is deplorable, imo, and as far as I can tell from listening to sportstalk radio around the south, is almost entirely unique to HogNation.

[Flatline]

I am not sure how the recruits feel about the posting but I do know that Kodi Burns and Alex Birton get on Hogville when they are in the library during school days at Northside and of course when they are home.  So they are checking this board all the time.  I would expect that several other recruits are checking the board all the time.

[ConwayHog]

Ok if it hurts recruiting then how did Ron Zook recruit, I believe, 2 top 5 recruiting classes while there was a web site being operated called www.fireronzook.com?  That is the ultimate negative posting.  He was never embraced by the fans and had an up hill battle from the beginning but he still recruited very well.  I don't believe he had a class ranked lower than any of the best Arkansas classes in the last 12 years.

Florida is an established top-tier program. It basically recruits itself.

Baloney.  Those coaches have to get out and work.  It may recruit itself in the fact that they won't finish below Top 25.  However, you cannot discredit the fact of high ranking.  FSU and Miami are in their own state.  USC has been on a crazy run and so has Texas.  The Florida example was a great one under Zook and cannot be dismissed just because "they are Florida and have good weather, etc."

[FayettenamVeteran]

Negative posting hurts recruiting far less than 2 straight losing seasons. 

[SpareRib]

I wanted to get the opinions of the members of this board, especially the ones who read but rarely post a reply. It is my opinion that certain members of this board are actually hurting the U of A's recruiting efforts with their constant coach bashing and negative post around the clock, and I want to see if the majority of people reading this board feel the same as I do. People from across the country, including many potential recruits read this board. I feel these negative posters are giving anyone who reads this board a misleading and damaging impression of the U of A and it's fan base, and it is a view I feel the majority of members disagree with, but don't say so for fear of getting blasted.

So the question to you is............Do you feel negative internet posting can be damaging to a schools recruiting efforts? And if so, how?

Remember, this is a question to who I believe are the majority, not the minority who seem to dominate this board with a "anything HDN touches is crap" attitude. I already know how you feel.

Thanks,
razorback4ever

This is a great subject and there are thoughtful arguments presented for both sides. 

I have been a lurker on many sites, not all sports related, for years.  I use these sites for info for many specific purposes.  Have never joined one until Hogville.  Here's why.  On many sites, to get to the good information, you have to wade through a mile of crap.  Specifically, arguments between adolescents, 2am whiskey rants, name calling, meaningless gyrations with semantics, and abuse from people who would never have the balls to say to your face what they freely dish out with their keyboard.  For me, this is the problem with the boards in general.

So, two questions come to my mind.  What are we, and what is the real issue?

My understanding of the first is that Hogville is not an owned or contracted PR organ for the university or for the state.  We are nobody's sop.  It is an information resource and an open forum for discussion, pro and con, focused mainly on Razorback athletics.  I believe that folks should be able to speak their minds, either fact or opinion, so long as they do it with respect for the institution, coaches, players, recruits, and their fellow forum members.  Most folks, even the young ones, are capable of sifting opinions about themselves so long as they aren't insulted.  It's not what we think, it's the way we say it.  I don't believe we need to pander to recruits to attract them.  But we should show respect for them and for our program.  That's attractive.  The truth is, what we do on the playing field will be our most direct influence on recruiting. 

With regard to how we treat each other, folks that debate should be able to jibe each other and argue, but body slams should be out of bounds.  If I feel the need to insult someone, better I should do it to his face.  If I'm unwilling to drive the distance to do it, then I just need to get over my bad self and find another way to say what I'm thinking.

I think that if the board posts with respect for the folks we speak to or about, we gain credibility with those we discuss and can make our program and our state more attractive to those we recruit.  In this way we have a more credible voice with our own athletic department, and can, merely by attraction, be a PR tool for recruiting.  Again, look at the crap posted on boards for some of the other schools in the SEC.  Gang, I joined Hogville because I think this board does a better job than others I've seen at policing its own and I'm proud to be a part of it.  We ain't perfect, but the fact that we are willing to address this subject says a lot.


WPS!!

Pork Out

PS - I'm not a Nutt fan, but continuing to pummel him with the same ole stuff is getting really boring. If we are concerned about how others see us, which I think is the subject of this thread, let's lay off until or unless he provides us with new material.

[dmhog v2.0]

Isn't it kind of arrogant to think that the posts here have an effect on recruits?

[SpareRib]

Isn't it kind of arrogant to think that the posts here have an effect on recruits?

Kids are internet savvy and spend far more time in chat rooms than do adults.  They are also more impressionable.  I don't know if what the posts say here affect their decisions or not, but not knowing the answer, it makes more sense to me to be objective and civil.  I don't think arrogance has anything to do with it.

Pork Out
WPS!!

[Boared]

Isn't it kind of arrogant to think that the posts here have an effect on recruits?

No, simply because of this fact--we post on a messageboard, so we DO know everything. Yeah....

[razorback4ever]

I appreciate the post so far. Seems to me the people are split so far, maybe leaning toward it being a possible factor in persuading someone to go somewhere else. Keep em coming.

[WilsonHog]

There is an exception to everything, but overall I don't think so.

Think about the opposite scenario. Given our record for the last 16 years (i.e., since we joined the SEC), is it really logical that a kid would select UA because he logged on to Razorback message boards and saw only positive posts?

Please.     

[Jim Harris]

no, looking like a high school program with a goofy head coach and losing like we have is what hurts our recruiting.

[razorback4ever]

There is an exception to everything, but overall I don't think so.

Think about the opposite scenario. Given our record for the last 16 years (i.e., since we joined the SEC), is it really logical that a kid would select UA because he logged on to Razorback message boards and saw only positive posts?

Please.      WilsonHog



Over the course of the last few years, with the losing record, I believe negative post have more of an effect than most years. A kid is being told by the coaches that things are getting better and they should sign, but on this board the sky is falling according to some very vocal posters. If the kid checks out these negative coach bashing post, I think it could effect his decision. I will agree that losing has the most effect on recruiting, but I also feel coach bashing after a bad year can be harmful when it comes to recruiting for that turn around year everybody expects. IMHO   What do ya think?

[WilsonHog]

There is an exception to everything, but overall I don't think so.

Think about the opposite scenario. Given our record for the last 16 years (i.e., since we joined the SEC), is it really logical that a kid would select UA because he logged on to Razorback message boards and saw only positive posts?

Please.      WilsonHog



Over the course of the last few years, with the losing record, I believe negative post have more of an effect than most years. A kid is being told by the coaches that things are getting better and they should sign, but on this board the sky is falling according to some very vocal posters. If the kid checks out these negative coach bashing post, I think it could effect his decision. I will agree that losing has the most effect on recruiting, but I also feel coach bashing after a bad year can be harmful when it comes to recruiting for that turn around year everybody expects. IMHO   What do ya think?

I think if someone set about to compile a list of everything that had a negative effect on our recruiting, what is said on any message board would be at the very bottom of the list.

[WRHOG]

yes negative posting can hurting recruiting, it might not be huge but it can hurt

[Nashville Fan]

Other schools message boards are full of the same crap. Every team that is struggling has people who do nothing but complain. Check out the Vol boards sometime. Kids go where they think they will win. If we start winning, it won't matter what anyone says on the message boards.

[Bacon The Saddle Again]

Just going to throw this out there....keep in mind I wanted to fire Nutt after USC and Vandy last year....


If EVERY school as you say has this much anomosity and negativity toward the head coach.....does that mean that Houston Nutt is basically, um, good enough to coach at this level?  I mean, according to what people say about "every" board having this kind of stuff on it, that means maybe he's right there with Pete Carroll, Charlie Boy at Notre Dame, Spurrier at SC, and Stoops in OU, huh?  I mean, every coach has this happening to him, right? So maybe Nutt isn't that bad....it's just par for the course.

[razorback4ever]

Thanks Bacon.................Good point!

[DriveByHogger]

Just going to throw this out there....keep in mind I wanted to fire Nutt after USC and Vandy last year....


If EVERY school as you say has this much anomosity and negativity toward the head coach.....does that mean that Houston Nutt is basically, um, good enough to coach at this level?  I mean, according to what people say about "every" board having this kind of stuff on it, that means maybe he's right there with Pete Carroll, Charlie Boy at Notre Dame, Spurrier at SC, and Stoops in OU, huh?  I mean, every coach has this happening to him, right? So maybe Nutt isn't that bad....it's just par for the course.

Yes, its par for the course. It also shows the level of expectations at a certain school. A team with winning seasons where the coach is on the hot seat implies that that school's fans are not satisfied with just having an above .500 record. They have higher expectations. Unfortunately we can have two losing seasons in a row and some fans are, if not happy at least comfortable with it.

[razorback4ever]

DriveByHogger, I am not "comfortable" with losing seasons. Never have been, never will be. But in today's game, I guess I'm one of the guys who is disgusted by the lack of devotion many fans, players, AD's, and coaches have towards each other. Nobody is in it for the long haul anymore. It's "what have you done for me today" every where you look. I am gratefull FB is not that kind of AD, and HDN is not that kind of coach. I expect a winning team. I expect good bowl games and national attention. That does not mean I want to fire everybody every time I'm disappointed. It seems nobody remembers the good, only the bad these days, and the negative post go right in that vein. HDN may not be a top 5 coach, but I do think he is a good coach. The chips have been stacked against him since the 2000 Cotton Bowl, and yet everybody wants to ignore the facts and fire him. I'm just not that way myself. I get blasted just like HDN on this board for being a Koolaid drinker and having my head up my a$$. I think they are wrong, they think I'm wrong. That's OK. I will still remain loyal to the current coaches as long as I see the ability to improve, and a desire to do so. That being said, a third losing season will get HDN fired, but that WILL NOT happen this year.

[logic]

Many things, including facilities, coaches, winning record, type of offense/defense, chance to play, and favorable/negative comments affect a recruits choice. Negative posting may only account for 5 to 10 percent of the total, but that's huge. Against most colleges, say Auburn or Tenn, our overall scores are going to be close. So suppose we are about even in a kids mind with another college and the kid is wavering.  In that event, reading negative comments from Razorback fans vs. positive comments from fans of the other college will result in him choosing the other college.

Negative posting probably costs Arkansas two 4 or 5 star recruits each year.  THAT'S HUGH so yes, negative posting hurts our recruiting.

A little negative posting would have little effect; however, with so much negative posting, it harms our recruiting.