The retention/turnover rate is becoming bothersome.

[JIHawg]

We have players leaving as soon as they can or are feasable for the NBA, and we have players leaving for no reason after one year.  The message here is  "players don't want to hang around this program and are taking the first train out".  Mike needs to address this yesterday IMO.

[lefty08]

Great idea or a thread, it was a fascinating read

[klp1]

We have players leaving as soon as they can or are feasable for the NBA, and we have players leaving for no reason after one year.  The message here is  "players don't want to hang around this program and are taking the first train out".  Mike needs to address this yesterday IMO.

In an article about Jalen Hudson's transfer from Va Tech,  I read that they had 10 players leave in the last 2 years. Ohio State had 4/5 of last years class transfer.   Its not a problem specific to UA.

[MJ2]

I've been and still am a M.A. fan and supporter, but this week has changed my mind to say that it may be time for a change for both parties.

[rwspear]

I've been and still am a M.A. fan and supporter, but this week has changed my mind to say that it may be time for a change for both parties.

huh? You were cool with MA but now that Jenkins is leaving you're suddenly upset?

/confused

[onebadrubi]

We have players leaving as soon as they can or are feasable for the NBA, and we have players leaving for no reason after one year.  The message here is  "players don't want to hang around this program and are taking the first train out".  Mike needs to address this yesterday IMO.

We have people transferring?  That's new news...

[Ironhawg]

In an article about Jalen Hudson's transfer from Va Tech,  I read that they had 10 players leave in the last 2 years. Ohio State had 4/5 of last years class transfer.   Its not a problem specific to UA.

I'm beginning to think this may just be the new normal.  Kids today want results today and don't want to wait for an investment of time to pay off.  Or maybe my generation gap is showing?

[hogsanity]

In an article about Jalen Hudson's transfer from Va Tech,  I read that they had 10 players leave in the last 2 years. Ohio State had 4/5 of last years class transfer.   Its not a problem specific to UA.

No one has said it was specific to the Hogs. The question is what kind of talent are your replacing them with.

[Letsroll1200]

No one has said it was specific to the Hogs. The question is what kind of talent are your replacing them with.

If we can't upgrade from Lorenzo Jenkins and guys like Hunter Mickelson than we have a problem.

[hogsanity]

If we can't upgrade from Lorenzo Jenkins and guys like Hunter Mickelson than we have a problem.

Or Whitt, Abron, Clark.................?

[JIHawg]

Great idea or a thread, it was a fascinating read

Thank you.  I'll mark you down as a special friend on my profile.

[wheelspigharvey]

Or Whitt, Abron, Clark.................?

Now I have an honest question. When we evaluate recruiting, it's pretty much understood that the class that was brought in when Mike was hired wasn't "his" and thus he doesn't get credit for it.  I'm more or less OK with that. However, he does get blamed when those players do leave or don't pan out. I feel like if they "don't count" towards building then they don't count in this problem with attrition. Am I off base? Please do not V&R me for this question.

[hogsanity]

Now I have an honest question. When we evaluate recruiting, it's pretty much understood that the class that was brought in when Mike was hired wasn't "his" and thus he doesn't get credit for it.  I'm more or less OK with that. However, he does get blamed when those players do leave or don't pan out. I feel like if they "don't count" towards building then they don't count in this problem with attrition. Am I off base? Please do not V&R me for this question.

I am not blaming him for departures, especially of kids he did not really recruit, but he is the one in charge of replacing them. IT could be departures for any reason- injury, graduation, transfer, leaving early for the NBA - all those players have to be replaced.

[SONofHAM]

Now I have an honest question. When we evaluate recruiting, it's pretty much understood that the class that was brought in when Mike was hired wasn't "his" and thus he doesn't get credit for it.  I'm more or less OK with that. However, he does get blamed when those players do leave or don't pan out. I feel like if they "don't count" towards building then they don't count in this problem with attrition. Am I off base? Please do not V&R me for this question.

I think he meant it's more that he didn't bring in quality replacements for those guys. 

[Letsroll1200]

Or Whitt, Abron, Clark.................?

Whitt was a quality recruit. I thought he had some areas that he need to improve but most recruits have areas they need to work on. Abron, Mickelson and company did not do anything significant at their other school.

[hogsanity]

Whitt was a quality recruit. I thought he had some areas that he need to improve but most recruits have areas they need to work on. Abron, Mickelson and company did not do anything significant at their other school.

It's not a question of what they did anywhere else.  With ANY player leaving, for whatever reason, who did the coach replace them with and what did those players do? 

[wheelspigharvey]

It's not a question of what they did anywhere else.  With ANY player leaving, for whatever reason, who did the coach replace them with and what did those players do?

Were Abron and Mick (then later Waithe, Sanchez and Powell) not eventually replaced by Jacorey and C. Clarke, and later Portis and Kingsley?

As far as Rotnei, he wasn't very effective in the beginning, but we added Bell in the next class, and we already had Wade on campus.

I'm not saying they were 100% effective replacements off the bat, but they were there were they not?

[bigyellowdog]

If we can't upgrade from Lorenzo Jenkins and guys like Hunter Mickelson than we have a problem.

Mike just need to get his players in here.   We will be fine in a few years.

[JIHawg]

I guess where I'm coming from on turnover/retention rates, in 25 years of management with Walmart, every year I was evaluated on my turnover rate.  If it was above a certain level, I could get a bad evaluation, which meant no raise.  So Walmart has figured out it is a bad thing.  I just don't remember this much turnover of players, going back through Eddie Sutton.  My question is why? 

Whit, the guard that left last year(can't remember his name), and Qualls leaving early when he obviously should have stayed, are the three that bother me the most.  If Kingsley leaves when he obviously would benefit from another year in college, then my level of concern gets higher. 

[hogsanity]

I guess where I'm coming from on turnover/retention rates, in 25 years of management with Walmart, every year I was evaluated on my turnover rate.  If it was above a certain level, I could get a bad evaluation, which meant no raise.  So Walmart has figured out it is a bad thing.  I just don't remember this much turnover of players, going back through Eddie Sutton.  My question is why? 

Whit, the guard that left last year(can't remember his name), and Qualls leaving early when he obviously should have stayed, are the three that bother me the most.  If Kingsley leaves when he obviously would benefit from another year in college, then my level of concern gets higher. 

There is leaving to go pro and get paid, and there is leaving to go to another school. I am not sure you can blame a coach for a player leaving to take a shot at getting paid.

[k.c.hawg]

We are up to 430 transfers this year. It has been averaging 1.5 transfers per D1 school every year for several years. Get used to transfers. No school or coach is immune. It is at epidemic levels. The new norm is learning to become adept at recruiting good transfers.

[HogBreath]

If we can't upgrade from Lorenzo Jenkins and guys like Hunter Mickelson than we have a problem.

You  still haven't figured out we have and have had, a problem for quite a while?

[HogBreath]

Now I have an honest question. When we evaluate recruiting, it's pretty much understood that the class that was brought in when Mike was hired wasn't "his" and thus he doesn't get credit for it.  I'm more or less OK with that. However, he does get blamed when those players do leave or don't pan out. I feel like if they "don't count" towards building then they don't count in this problem with attrition. Am I off base? Please do not V&R me for this question.

Of course it is Mike's fault....he should have checked the Pel recruits out before taking them on, instead of standing around day dreaming about rasslin Bears.

[hawgfan4life]

I am not blaming him for departures, especially of kids he did not really recruit, but he is the one in charge of replacing them. IT could be departures for any reason- injury, graduation, transfer, leaving early for the NBA - all those players have to be replaced.

.
You are wrong.  It is simple.  If it is bad and can be used against Coach Anderson, it is used against him regardless of all facts.

[Razoryak]

Of course it is Mike's fault....he should have checked the Pel recruits out before taking them on, instead of standing around day dreaming about rasslin Bears.

Check Pels recruits?! .... CMA is going into year 5 for gods sake and as it stands Trey Thompson could be the lone recruit left standing from the last 2 classes that CMA signed. He has done a horrible job of recruiting and should thank the Hog god's that Bobby Portis wanted to be a Hog no matter who was up here coaching and that Dusty Hannahs wanted to come here despite being shunned the first time around.

If the jucos don't pan out it will definitely be time to move on from this regime.

[Razoryak]

I am not blaming him for departures, especially of kids he did not really recruit, but he is the one in charge of replacing them. IT could be departures for any reason- injury, graduation, transfer, leaving early for the NBA - all those players have to be replaced.

Might want to check your timeline ... he recruited all of these guys or what's left of them.

[HogBreath]

Check Pels recruits?! .... CMA is going into year 5 for gods sake and as it stands Trey Thompson could be the lone recruit left standing from the last 2 classes that CMA signed. He has done a horrible job of recruiting and should thank the Hog god's that Bobby Portis wanted to be a Hog no matter who was up here coaching and that Dusty Hannahs wanted to come here despite being shunned the first time around.

If the jucos don't pan out it will definitely be time to move on from this regime.

Hey relax a little, we just need to give coach a few more years to find the right players to fit his "system".   Then everyone better look out...fast 40 baby.  It'll be like the early 90's again.

[CallMeAl]

It is really bothersome. I stay up all night worrying about the retention rate. I can't seem to get it out of my head. Why can't these coaches and players just get along?

[Pork Twain]

In an article about Jalen Hudson's transfer from Va Tech,  I read that they had 10 players leave in the last 2 years. Ohio State had 4/5 of last years class transfer.   Its not a problem specific to UA.

I shouldn't be, but I am amazed that the excuses for MA's recruiting still flow so freely.  When you recruit as poorly as MA has traditionally, it is a major problem.  Before I sing his praises for the current class, I want to see how many actually make it, how they perform their first year and how many are actually here at the beginning of their second year.

Context is also very important when comparing things.  Like what happened at VT in 2014?  What kind of classes is Ohio St pulling in?  You should never just blinding compare things that completely different.  A Mustang Roush losing 50 horsepower is much easier to live with than a Fiat losing 30 horsepower.

I will help.
Ohio St
2010 2 x 5*, 2 x 4* and 2 x 3*
2011 4 x 4* and 1 x 3*
2012 1 x 3*
2013 2 x 4*
2014 2 x 5* and 1 x 4*
2015 5 x 4*
2016 1 x 4*, 2 x 3* and a top JC

vs Arkansas
2012 5 x 3*
2013 1 x 5* and 1 x 4*
2014 4 x 3*
2015 1 x 4*
2016 3 x 4* and 2 x 3*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buzz_Williams
Williams soon after departed for Virginia Tech and was named the new Hokie head coach on March 21, 2014, in a move that had other coaches and the national media questioning why he'd leave Marquette for the ACC's "stepchild program" in the words of The Washington Post.

[Inhogswetrust]

We have players leaving as soon as they can or are feasable for the NBA, and we have players leaving for no reason after one year.  The message here is  "players don't want to hang around this program and are taking the first train out".  Mike needs to address this yesterday IMO.

Now why hasn't someone thought of that before? Brilliant! No wait never mind.

[JayBell]

I've repeatedly said that Anderson could have a pretty good program if he had a lineup of juniors and seniors every year instead of guys with just 1-2 years in the program.  But he can't do that when multiple players are leaving before the end of their eligibility every single season.

Whitt, Babb, Jenkins, etc. weren't that great, but what could they have been with another 1-2 years on the team?  Look what those extra years did for Qualls, Kingsley, Bell, etc.

Anderson is never going to build the team everybody wants him to have if he can never build the depth he needs.  Stop blaming everybody and everything other than Anderson.  Building the team is on the coach, plain and simple.

[lefty08]

I've repeatedly said that Anderson could have a pretty good program if he had a lineup of juniors and seniors every year instead of guys with just 1-2 years in the program.  But he can't do that when multiple players are leaving before the end of their eligibility every single season.

Whitt, Babb, Jenkins, etc. weren't that great, but what could they have been with another 1-2 years on the team?  Look what those extra years did for Qualls, Kingsley, Bell, etc.

Anderson is never going to build the team everybody wants him to have if he can never build the depth he needs.  Stop blaming everybody and everything other than Anderson.  Building the team is on the coach, plain and simple.

Now there is a fresh take boys!!!!

[ShadowHawg]

We have players leaving as soon as they can or are feasable for the NBA, and we have players leaving for no reason after one year.  The message here is  "players don't want to hang around this program and are taking the first train out".  Mike needs to address this yesterday IMO.

Happening all over the country. Not just here. Entitlement mentality of these young guys makes them believe that they don't have to earn it by actually beating out other players for playing time, or they aren't getting to play the position they should, blah, blah.

Since when do coaches give into playing time and position demands of players?

[hogsanity]

Happening all over the country. Not just here. Entitlement mentality of these young guys makes them believe that they don't have to earn it by actually beating out other players for playing time, or they aren't getting to play the position they should, blah, blah.

Since when do coaches give into playing time and position demands of players?

Again, no one is claiming this is a Arkansas only thing, but look at what gets brought in to replace players all over the country. As I said yesterday, players leave every year for a variety of reasons - graduation, pro ball, dissatisfaction, disciplinary actions, injury - and what players can the coach recruit to replace them? That is the question.

[wheelspigharvey]

Again, no one is claiming this is a Arkansas only thing, but look at what gets brought in to replace players all over the country. As I said yesterday, players leave every year for a variety of reasons - graduation, pro ball, dissatisfaction, disciplinary actions, injury - and what players can the coach recruit to replace them? That is the question.

No thoughts on my answer?

[hogsanity]

No thoughts on my answer?

In theory one could say Sidney, Delph and Brewer were replaced EVENTUALLY by Day, Mayberry and Miller.

I am talking about when player A leaves, who takes his spot the next season, or I will even say the 2nd season after said departure for players leaving for reasons other than graduation.

Look at it this way, Mike has known for 4 years that, barring a redshirt for some reason, Bell was going to use up his eligibility this season. Who takes his place in the starting lineup next year, and what do they produce. Qualls and Portis left, some would claim, unexpectedly after 2015, so lets allow that no one saw it coming, Mike had a yr and a half to recruit to replace them, who is he bringing in to do that? How do these players end up producing? That is the key since we all agree that players anymore seem to be coming and going at record rates in college basketball.

[choppedporkextrasauce]

If we can't upgrade from Lorenzo Jenkins and guys like Hunter Mickelson than we have a problem.

It's really idiotic to compare a recruit like Jenkins to a recruit like Hunter.

[choppedporkextrasauce]

In theory one could say Sidney, Delph and Brewer were replaced EVENTUALLY by Day, Mayberry and Miller.

I am talking about when player A leaves, who takes his spot the next season, or I will even say the 2nd season after said departure for players leaving for reasons other than graduation.

Look at it this way, Mike has known for 4 years that, barring a redshirt for some reason, Bell was going to use up his eligibility this season. Who takes his place in the starting lineup next year, and what do they produce. Qualls and Portis left, some would claim, unexpectedly after 2015, so lets allow that no one saw it coming, Mike had a yr and a half to recruit to replace them, who is he bringing in to do that? How do these players end up producing? That is the key since we all agree that players anymore seem to be coming and going at record rates in college basketball.

And he recruited a replacement for Portis in Kapita. It's not Mike's fault a player fails to qualify, blame the player.

[yocdaddy]

As long as people blame it on young, immature kids leaving the program, Mike gets a pass.  He can't be expected to win if he can't develop depth for his system.  He can't be expected to win if he doesn't have enough of his type of kids...

Blah...blah...blah...

Mike is a sorry recruiter.  He doesn't have a balanced roster and that's his fault.  Next year is the most important year of his coaching career and he will likely be counting on 3 Juco players, a scorer who can't guard anyone, and only one player over 6'8" on the roster (I believe Moses is gone).  Now, how's that for planning....

[Pork Twain]

How are so many other coaches able to do what we cannot?  Such a mystery... 

Also, leaving early for the NBA and reloading is not the same as players transferring after their first year like the ship is sinking.

[dsims2k3]

Jumpball should have a new name. Sobville.

[ShadowHawg]

Jumpball should have a new name. Sobville.

More like S.O.B.'ville.

[ShadowHawg]

Haven't we had players transfer IN to our program as well?

We dismissed some kids, had some leave early to pursue pro careers, encouraged a couple to seek more playing time at smaller programs, one transferred to be closer to home because he had a new born, and we have had a whopping THREE guys transfer out that could have been contributors in 5 seasons.

We have had FOUR transfer IN. Two of which were good players and productive and one which wasn't all he was advertised to be. Sounds like a wash.

But leave it to Jumpball to act like it's a one way disaster.

[JayBell]

Haven't we had players transfer IN to our program as well?

We dismissed some kids, had some leave early to pursue pro careers, encouraged a couple to seek more playing time at smaller programs, one transferred to be closer to home because he had a new born, and we have had a whopping THREE guys transfer out that could have been contributors in 5 seasons.

We have had FOUR transfer IN. Two of which were good players and productive and one which wasn't all he was advertised to be. Sounds like a wash.

But leave it to Jumpball to act like it's a one way disaster.

Because there is always room on the roster and potential for playing time.  That says two things: 1) the coaching staff did not stock the roster as they should have; and 2) those on the roster aren't good enough to make people think they can't play if they come here.

Those aren't two things to brag about.

[JayBell]

And he recruited a replacement for Portis in Kapita. It's not Mike's fault a player fails to qualify, blame the player.

This has to be a bot.  This can't be a real opinion from a real person.

Coach recruits player who likely can't qualify, doesn't have backup options, player doesn't qualify and it's the player's fault for not protecting the program?  The's the coach's job, not the player.

[tomw]

What do you mean, mike needs to get his players in...these are his players..5 years and they are mikes players...the quality of players is on mike...not a good coach, not a good recruiter...anderson will not return us to the elite status, or even relavent

[Danny J]

This has to be a bot.  This can't be a real opinion from a real person.

Coach recruits player who likely can't qualify, doesn't have backup options, player doesn't qualify and it's the player's fault for not protecting the program?  The's the coach's job, not the player.

Correct....there was a reason he was still available late in the process. Also...the way CMA recruits and likes to build relationships does not lend itself well to unexpected departures for whatever the reason.

[ShadowHawg]

Because there is always room on the roster and potential for playing time.  That says two things: 1) the coaching staff did not stock the roster as they should have; and 2) those on the roster aren't good enough to make people think they can't play if they come here.

Those aren't two things to brag about.

I'm confused. Is the subject of the OP retention or recruiting because they aren't the same thing.

2) How do programs that have better players get them to come then? Ohio St. lost 4 of its' 5 frosh from this season. I guess that is MA's fault?

Also, if guys are fleeing the ship because they can't see themselves beating out who you have coming in, isn't that a sign that the roster is improving?

[CallMeAl]

I'm still worried about this retention rate.

[Pork Twain]

I'm confused. Is the subject of the OP retention or recruiting because they aren't the same thing.

2) How do programs that have better players get them to come then? Ohio St. lost 4 of its' 5 frosh from this season. I guess that is MA's fault?

Also, if guys are fleeing the ship because they can't see themselves beating out who you have coming in, isn't that a sign that the roster is improving?

They are not the same thing but they address the same issue.

I have no idea what you were trying to do there

Is it?  It would be nice to keep some players around long enough to see.