Recruiting One And Dones

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

So here's the ridiculous thoughts of mine regarding the one and done recruits.

I honestly don't know how you recruit one and dones for programs similar to ours.

For a program like us, a one and done could retard the development of other players for what? 
The hope is maybe you make the Final Four.
However, maybe you end up like LSU.

I bet LSU, as a TEAM overall, will not be as good as they could have been next year after pinning their hopes on an 18 y/o mercenary.

Obviously, you take one if you can, but for programs that aren't established, unlike UK, Duke, etc, I see them as a mixed blessing gamble.

So do you think you go full bore on two or three a year?  Only the one you have the best chance to get?   None, but be open-minded if there's one that has honest interest?

What theories do some of you have?
Thoughts?

[Dr. Starcs]

I'd really rather see us bring in solid 3/4 year players and keep & develop them.

As a fan, I like getting to know the players even from just watching them grow.

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

I'd really rather see us bring in solid 3/4 year players and keep & develop them.

As a fan, I like getting to know the players even from just watching them grow.

This is exactly where I am.
Michigan St is successful,  and I can't recall a one-and-done off the top of my head.
Grab one if there's really interest without normal effort.

[yraciv]

We could have brought in Monk and it would have been fine, and not stunted the growth of others on our team. It certainly would have made us better! The problem with LSU is Johnny Jones  and their handling of players.  I don't feel we have that.

Of course I prefer the 3 to 4 year players over anything because chemistry is built and I see them develop for years, but don't compare anything to LSU. Not a lot of comparable situations with prior top picks to the LSU disaster this year.

[Wisconsin Razorback]

This is exactly where I am.
Michigan St is successful,  and I can't recall a one-and-done off the top of my head.
Grab one if there's really interest without normal effort.

Zach Randolph is the only one and done player from Michigan State that I can remember.

[PonderinHog]

You take top rated talent, that fits, whenever you can get it and mix it in with the good four year guys and jucos.  Do this and chances are you won't be sitting at the house watching March Madness - you'll be participating in the madness.

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

You take top rated talent, that fits, whenever you can get it and mix it in with the good four year guys and jucos.  Do this and chances are you won't be sitting at the house watching March Madness - you'll be participating in the madness.

Unfortunately, I participate in madness regardless the conditions.

[PonderinHog]

Unfortunately, I participate in madness regardless the conditions.

Ok U is looking pretty good right now.

[rude1]

I think if you are recruiting solid yearly then a one and done player can be the difference in pushing you over the top towards an elite year. But if you bring in a one and done player on top of below average recruiting, you aren't likely to see much benefit.

[Redbug]

I think if you are recruiting solid yearly then a one and done player can be the difference in pushing you over the top towards an elite year. But if you bring in a one and done player on top of below average recruiting, you aren't likely to see much benefit.

This is the correct answer....

[Hogfan1660]

I'd really rather see us bring in solid 3/4 year players and keep & develop them.

As a fan, I like getting to know the players even from just watching them grow.

I agree with you 100%!

[HogBreath]

I'd really rather see us bring in solid 3/4 year players and keep & develop them.

As a fan, I like getting to know the players even from just watching them grow.

Yep, me too, love to watch the players grow and develop, and getting to know them.  I miss the old days where you could do all these things.

[Porked Tongue]

JUCO signings are all potential one and done players. 

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

JUCO signings are all potential one and done players. 

That's why I don't like them for more than rounding out a roster.

Considering that many take a year to adjust to D1, they can be eating a scholarship for two years but be a one and done basically, only contributing their final year.

[hogwood]

I'd rather have upperclassmen running the show, and maybe a one and done here and there. My ideal team would have 9-10 4 year players, 2 guys on a BP level (2 year types), and a one and done.

[songofthesword]

This is exactly where I am.
Michigan St is successful,  and I can't recall a one-and-done off the top of my head.
Grab one if there's really interest without normal effort.

Jason Richarrdson
Zack Randolph


both one and done's for michigan state

   
Deyonta Davis on their team now is about to be

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

Jason Richarrdson
Zack Randolph


both one and done's for michigan state

   
Deyonta Davis on their team now is about to be

Considering the overall length of time, that's a small fraction.

[songofthesword]

7 of the last 44

kentucky 2015 -everyone lol
Duke 2015- Tyrus Jones, Justice Windslow, Jabril Oakafur

kentucky 2014 - Julius Randle, Nick Young


Memphis 2008 - Derrick Rose


kentucky 2012 - Anthony Davis, Michel Kidd-Gilcrest, Eric Bledsoe,


Ohio State 2007 - Greg Oden, Mike Conley Jr


UCLA 2006 - Kevin Love (note Tyrus Thomas was ont he LSU team that went to the final four but he was a RS freshman)



teams have had a one and done on them that have made it to the final four in the last 11 years.  that's 16%

of those, Ohio State 2007, Kentucky 2012 ,Memphis 2008, Kentucky 2015


had the number one pick in the draft on their team


of the remaining 3, 2 of them had a player that was picked in the top 3 (Oakafur, Love)


kentucky 2014 is the only team in the last 11 years to have a team with a one and done that was not a top 3 pick and make it to the final four.


in closing, if you can get the best player in the country on your team, you rent him for a year. if you can't it's really not worth it.  Monk is not a top 3 pick lol. he's a borderline late lotto / fringe 20s type player, he's only 6'3 and is a shooting guard with a pedesterian 6'6 wingspan (d wayde by comparison has a 6'10 wingspan, there is a SG in the draft this year, Timothe Luwawu with a 7'2 wingspan. he doesn't have the measurables to be a lotto pick as a SG and doesn't have the handles to be a one in the league.


if we had a shot at giles this year we take him. otherwise meh

[songofthesword]

Martin  at call, crean at indiana  and romar at  Washington  are about to show  you why you don't recruit one and done players for the sake  of doing it

All  three are bout to get absolutely  gutted by the nba draft,none had why I would call a great season though Indiana did make  the sweet 16, but none of the players that are leaving were good enough yet  to make  a significant  impact..Jaylen brown  for cal is going to be a top  7 pick at worse  was 1 for 6 with 7 turnovers against  hawaii  in the tourney..This is the type of game  you build on for next year when he's  a sophomore but now u start over.and they are going  to lose rabb  their staring of one and done.


Huskies  made the second  round of the nit and are going to lose their  pg  and pf

Indiana, particularly  be a use their coach hones I n o  long rangy players  are bout to get decimated. Their goI g to lose Thomas Bryant(12 points a game) og   anunoby (4.9 point a game) to the  draft. For  a sweet sixteen  team. They are going to lose yogi and Williams as well  but they are not one and done


The reason cal and to a lesser extent coach k can do it is 1, they don't go after fringe one and dones like malik newnan without getting g the top talent as well.coach  k has the two best players coming I  next year so 2. U go Into the year knowing they are only there a year. What kills u is  guy who isn't producing and u think he mught cone back so u really don't know what to do.


People think one nd dones are bout talent /production nothing could be further fro  the truth .Kristaps Porzingis was drafted 4th be cause he's 7'3 runs like a gazelle , has a 7'6 wingspan and has  stroke sweet enough where he can one day league the league In 3pt% .....at 7'3...They didn't draft him  because  if his 10 points s game  he scored I  euro league  . Lol the guy drafted  who d hi  didn't even start

It's bout potential  not production.

[MountieDawg]

The hard part about not taking potential one and dones is many end up being 2, 3 and 4 years players.  Mich St has had many that thought they were one and one but played many more years, so has , Kansas, Kentucky and many more.  You have to get the best players for your program and understand if they are as goodies you hope you may lose them soon.

[hogwood]

Jason Richarrdson
Zack Randolph


both one and done's for michigan state

   
Deyonta Davis on their team now is about to be

Gary Harris in 2015 or 14 I think. But that's all I can add to the list.

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

7 of the last 44

kentucky 2015 -everyone lol
Duke 2015- Tyrus Jones, Justice Windslow, Jabril Oakafur

kentucky 2014 - Julius Randle, Nick Young


Memphis 2008 - Derrick Rose


kentucky 2012 - Anthony Davis, Michel Kidd-Gilcrest, Eric Bledsoe,


Ohio State 2007 - Greg Oden, Mike Conley Jr


UCLA 2006 - Kevin Love (note Tyrus Thomas was ont he LSU team that went to the final four but he was a RS freshman)



teams have had a one and done on them that have made it to the final four in the last 11 years.  that's 16%

of those, Ohio State 2007, Kentucky 2012 ,Memphis 2008, Kentucky 2015


had the number one pick in the draft on their team


of the remaining 3, 2 of them had a player that was picked in the top 3 (Oakafur, Love)


kentucky 2014 is the only team in the last 11 years to have a team with a one and done that was not a top 3 pick and make it to the final four.


in closing, if you can get the best player in the country on your team, you rent him for a year. if you can't it's really not worth it.  Monk is not a top 3 pick lol. he's a borderline late lotto / fringe 20s type player, he's only 6'3 and is a shooting guard with a pedesterian 6'6 wingspan (d wayde by comparison has a 6'10 wingspan, there is a SG in the draft this year, Timothe Luwawu with a 7'2 wingspan. he doesn't have the measurables to be a lotto pick as a SG and doesn't have the handles to be a one in the league.


if we had a shot at giles this year we take him. otherwise meh

Good stuff.
+1.

To a large degree, this sort of reflects what most seem to think once you have to really consider the overall effect.

[hei5manhog]

7 of the last 44

kentucky 2015 -everyone lol
Duke 2015- Tyrus Jones, Justice Windslow, Jabril Oakafur

kentucky 2014 - Julius Randle, Nick Young


Memphis 2008 - Derrick Rose


kentucky 2012 - Anthony Davis, Michel Kidd-Gilcrest, Eric Bledsoe,


Ohio State 2007 - Greg Oden, Mike Conley Jr


UCLA 2006 - Kevin Love (note Tyrus Thomas was ont he LSU team that went to the final four but he was a RS freshman)



teams have had a one and done on them that have made it to the final four in the last 11 years.  that's 16%

of those, Ohio State 2007, Kentucky 2012 ,Memphis 2008, Kentucky 2015


had the number one pick in the draft on their team


of the remaining 3, 2 of them had a player that was picked in the top 3 (Oakafur, Love)


kentucky 2014 is the only team in the last 11 years to have a team with a one and done that was not a top 3 pick and make it to the final four.


in closing, if you can get the best player in the country on your team, you rent him for a year. if you can't it's really not worth it.  Monk is not a top 3 pick lol. he's a borderline late lotto / fringe 20s type player, he's only 6'3 and is a shooting guard with a pedesterian 6'6 wingspan (d wayde by comparison has a 6'10 wingspan, there is a SG in the draft this year, Timothe Luwawu with a 7'2 wingspan. he doesn't have the measurables to be a lotto pick as a SG and doesn't have the handles to be a one in the league.


if we had a shot at giles this year we take him. otherwise meh

Kentucky 2014- James Young* Not Swaggy P.
Swaggy went to USC for a couple years I believe

[Hardcore Hoggy]

So here's the ridiculous thoughts of mine regarding the one and done recruits.

I honestly don't know how you recruit one and dones for programs similar to ours.

For a program like us, a one and done could retard the development of other players for what? 
The hope is maybe you make the Final Four.
However, maybe you end up like LSU.

I bet LSU, as a TEAM overall, will not be as good as they could have been next year after pinning their hopes on an 18 y/o mercenary.

Obviously, you take one if you can, but for programs that aren't established, unlike UK, Duke, etc, I see them as a mixed blessing gamble.

So do you think you go full bore on two or three a year?  Only the one you have the best chance to get?   None, but be open-minded if there's one that has honest interest?

What theories do some of you have?
Thoughts?

If they are in state players you take them, if they are out of state, take them if they are sure fire first round picks after 1 year.

The notoriety they bring your program more than offsets any negative impact on the court.

[greghog]

I don't want to see us go all in on one and dones (even if we could).  That said, the right one and done could many times be the one missing ingredient that takes a good team and makes it a great team.

I agree that LSU probably is worse off for having its one and done.  If it had led to a great year would it have been a good deal?  Yes.  But it didn't.

[ShadowHawg]

Martin  at call, crean at indiana  and romar at  Washington  are about to show  you why you don't recruit one and done players for the sake  of doing it

All  three are bout to get absolutely  gutted by the nba draft,none had why I would call a great season though Indiana did make  the sweet 16, but none of the players that are leaving were good enough yet  to make  a significant  impact..Jaylen brown  for cal is going to be a top  7 pick at worse  was 1 for 6 with 7 turnovers against  hawaii  in the tourney..This is the type of game  you build on for next year when he's  a sophomore but now u start over.and they are going  to lose rabb  their staring of one and done.


Huskies  made the second  round of the nit and are going to lose their  pg  and pf

Indiana, particularly  be a use their coach hones I n o  long rangy players  are bout to get decimated. Their goI g to lose Thomas Bryant(12 points a game) og   anunoby (4.9 point a game) to the  draft. For  a sweet sixteen  team. They are going to lose yogi and Williams as well  but they are not one and done


The reason cal and to a lesser extent coach k can do it is 1, they don't go after fringe one and dones like malik newnan without getting g the top talent as well.coach  k has the two best players coming I  next year so 2. U go Into the year knowing they are only there a year. What kills u is  guy who isn't producing and u think he mught cone back so u really don't know what to do.


People think one nd dones are bout talent /production nothing could be further fro  the truth .Kristaps Porzingis was drafted 4th be cause he's 7'3 runs like a gazelle , has a 7'6 wingspan and has  stroke sweet enough where he can one day league the league In 3pt% .....at 7'3...They didn't draft him  because  if his 10 points s game  he scored I  euro league  . Lol the guy drafted  who d hi  didn't even start

It's bout potential  not production.

Great points.

The problem with one and dones is that if you can't replace them each year with another one and done, then you are going to be wildly inconsistent.

Even Kentucky and Duke are inconsistent, winning championships one year, missing the tournament or being average the next, back to being a dominant team followed up by a pretty plain team again.

Our program takes gut punches when a Joe Johnson or Portis leaves after only two seasons. In our best days we couldn't handle replacing NBA talent every other year.

Here, an occasional one and done that augments an already productive roster would be great for that year, a downer the next.

[hei5manhog]

Great points.

The problem with one and dones is that if you can't replace them each year with another one and done, then you are going to be wildly inconsistent.

Even Kentucky and Duke are inconsistent, winning championships one year, missing the tournament or being average the next, back to being a dominant team followed up by a pretty plain team again.

Our program takes gut punches when a Joe Johnson or Portis leaves after only two seasons. In our best days we couldn't handle replacing NBA talent every other year.

Here, an occasional one and done that augments an already productive roster would be great for that year, a downer the next.

Kentucky only won one more tournament game than we did this year!

[Jonteviosk]

Zach Randolph is the only one and done player from Michigan State that I can remember.

Wait I thought Randolph played 2 years at Mich St. Gary Harris the same.

[Hawg Red]

Wait I thought Randolph played 2 years at Mich St. Gary Harris the same.

Gary Harris played 2, Randolph played 1.

http://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Big-Ten-Conference/2/Michigan-State/100/nba-draft

[1highhog]

So here's the ridiculous thoughts of mine regarding the one and done recruits.

I honestly don't know how you recruit one and dones for programs similar to ours.

For a program like us, a one and done could retard the development of other players for what? 
The hope is maybe you make the Final Four.
However, maybe you end up like LSU.

I bet LSU, as a TEAM overall, will not be as good as they could have been next year after pinning their hopes on an 18 y/o mercenary.

Obviously, you take one if you can, but for programs that aren't established, unlike UK, Duke, etc, I see them as a mixed blessing gamble.

So do you think you go full bore on two or three a year?  Only the one you have the best chance to get?   None, but be open-minded if there's one that has honest interest?

What theories do some of you have?
Thoughts?

Never do I want the one and done players.  I don't think under our current Coach we'll ever have the rest of the team to make it work, sort of like LSU this year with Simmons.  I didn't won't Monk because of the fact he was going to be a one and done.  You can take a Junior College player, Weems, Lenzie Howell, Cory Beck, Jennero Pargo, Courtney Fortson, and Isaiah Morris just to name a few, and have them two years, and for the ones listed, make damn good players of them.  Sometimes I don't like going the JC route because it usually takes a year for them to get used to the differences in the two leagues, but some have adjusted very well.

[songofthesword]

I dan pretty much tell you monks star line now lol


13.5 ppg 3 rebounds 1.5 assists 1 turnover , .5 steals, 71%ft, 35% 3pt

[PoormansRobbyHampton]

I think if you are recruiting solid yearly then a one and done player can be the difference in pushing you over the top towards an elite year. But if you bring in a one and done player on top of below average recruiting, you aren't likely to see much benefit.

Bingo.

Malik Monk would have given us a chance, a real chance, to make the Final Four next year, assuming Moses, Anton and the others all panned out. He's that type of talent.

But hoping that a one-and-done shows up to cover all of your shortcomings is wishful thinking, at best.

[MountieDawg]

The problem is not with the one and done, it's with the expectations the coach and the kid have upon arrival.  If the coach us willing to do whatever to have the kid and change rules and let the kid do his own thing. It won't end good, every time this year LSU got down Simmons quit. The rest of the team resented him and could care less. If the coach won't use the bench to help discipline his player and doesn't enforce class attendance then he has really lost.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

The problem is not with the one and done, it's with the expectations the coach and the kid have upon arrival.  If the coach us willing to do whatever to have the kid and change rules and let the kid do his own thing. It won't end good, every time this year LSU got down Simmons quit. The rest of the team resented him and could care less. If the coach won't use the bench to help discipline his player and doesn't enforce class attendance then he has really lost.

You're spot on about Simmons.  I watched him several times this year and he was a disaster for team chemistry.  His talent was undeniable; I saw him in Bud Walton go end-to-end handling the ball like a 5'11" point guard then slicing through the lane for a sweet finger roll layup like it was nothing.  But when we got a decent lead, he just stood around and basically disappeared.  That rubbed off on his teammates and I knew then the game was over.

I do remember that LSU's coach benched him for part of a game for allegedly not going to class.  That was the right move but unfortunately over half the season was over and I doubt it had much effect.  Simmons had basically checked out by then. 

[wheelspigharvey]

You're spot on about Simmons.  I watched him several times this year and he was a disaster for team chemistry.  His talent was undeniable; I saw him in Bud Walton go end-to-end handling the ball like a 5'11" point guard then slicing through the lane for a sweet finger roll layup like it was nothing.  But when we got a decent lead, he just stood around and basically disappeared.  That rubbed off on his teammates and I knew then the game was over.

I do remember that LSU's coach benched him for part of a game for allegedly not going to class.  That was the right move but unfortunately over half the season was over and I doubt it had much effect.  Simmons had basically checked out by then.

Kinda off topic but I really like (liked? is he coming back?) Quarterman, I really thought Mike could have done quite a bit with that kid. I actually kinda thought LSU looked a lot like an ideal Anderson lineup this season.

[Hawg Red]

Kinda off topic but I really like (liked? is he coming back?) Quarterman, I really thought Mike could have done quite a bit with that kid. I actually kinda thought LSU looked a lot like an ideal Anderson lineup this season.

Quarterman announced a couple days ago that he's going pro and hiring an agent. He gone.

[psooie]

Is not a problem at Arkansas   

[Hardcore Hoggy]

Gotta wonder if this thread is an attempt to make excuses for missing on Monk.


There is no excuse for that, he was a must sign that MA missed on.

[greghog]

Gotta wonder if this thread is an attempt to make excuses for missing on Monk.


There is no excuse for that, he was a must sign that MA missed on.

Not for me its not.  My response was that we shouldn't go all in for a one and dones, but that at times they can be the missing piece that make a good team great.  Monk would have done that for us next year (a good chance anyway).  He was a "must get" that we didn't get.

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

Gotta wonder if this thread is an attempt to make excuses for missing on Monk.


There is no excuse for that, he was a must sign that MA missed on.

Since it's my thread, I'll answer your question.
It's not what you're suggesting.

After 3 - 4 months of listening to the teeth gnashing about recruiting (myself included), I thought I'd ask the question that I've been struggling with.

Understand, I'd love to have NBA talent on the roster that stays three years minimum.
Those days are gone.

I also realize that the vacuum created by a one and done leaving can be big.
And a one and done can actually retard the growth of the overall team

Considering where our program is, getting a one and done is probably a once per four year endeavor.
Is it worth it then?
I think that's a legitimate question.

My conclusion is you go after the in-state one and dones as well as any that express real interest.
Otherwise, you're better off landing good talent that you'll have 3 - 4 years that can contribute as Sophomores and will be good starters in years 3 & 4.

If you do that, a one and done might actually make a difference.

[Hawg Red]

Gotta wonder if this thread is an attempt to make excuses for missing on Monk.


There is no excuse for that, he was a must sign that MA missed on.

Just curious, but what could Mike Anderson have done that Bill Self or any of the other elite coaches weren't able to? It's Kentucky, man. The draw is that real for these kids. It's like Alabama or Florida State in football. Anderson marched the entire team and staff into a high school gym to watch that kid's game. The staff did what they could with Monk. But Arkansas isn't Kentucky and Mike couldn't help Marcus advance his career. I don't think Mike should catch any heat on this one.

[Dado]

Jimmy Whitt apparently a  "one and done"

http://www.arkansasrazorbacks.com/jimmy-whitt-leaving-arkansas-basketball-program/

[HawgAdvocate]

Can Whitt count as a one & done?

Too early? Prolly.

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

Jimmy Whitt apparently a  "one and done"

http://www.arkansasrazorbacks.com/jimmy-whitt-leaving-arkansas-basketball-program/

This blows.

He really started showing what he could become in those last 6 games or so.

Anyone know what the issue was?

[woodhog14]

Jason Richarrdson
Zack Randolph


both one and done's for michigan state

   
Deyonta Davis on their team now is about to be

Jason Richardson played 2 years at Michigan State. He was a sophomore when he was drafted.
Avg. 5 ppg. as a Freshman
Avg. 14 ppg. as a Sophomore

[HawgAdvocate]

This blows.

He really started showing what he could become in those last 6 games or so.

Anyone know what the issue was?

https://twitter.com/ericwbolin/status/715243009491623938

[ATU HOG]

I think this is why you see so many upsets in the tournament come March.  You have these teams with a bunch of 18 and 19 year olds, compared to a team with 21 and 22 year olds who have been playing together for a few years.  The team with more talent doesn't always win, but the team that plays together puts themselves in a better position to succeed.  That's why it's fun watching mid majors win over traditional powerhouses.

[hogsanity]

Mike does not get one and dones, but he is getting good at getting one and transfers

[wheelspigharvey]

Can Whitt count as a one & done?

Too early? Prolly.

Too late by 39 seconds

[hogman99]

This blows.

He really started showing what he could become in those last 6 games or so.

Anyone know what the issue was?

I am thinking he thought it would be great to play with his childhood friend and his dad's bosses team (Watkins and Anderson). Then once he got there he figured out they do not know what the heck they are doing.