I'm a coach B guy.. but

[jh0486]

Will we ever be able to recruit the talent beat Alabama at their own game? I love how coach B has built the program from an academic and character perspective, but I have serious doubts about any long term success using his antiquated philosophies. We do have a much more dynamic offense with Enos and I think he is an amazing coordinator, but it's still not the right one, IMO.

What teams give Alabama trouble? Up-tempo spread teams. If Saban even realized that he needed to change to continue to win, why can't Bielema?

In my opinion, we will never recruit the talent to compete consistently with Alabama, LSU (with a good coach), or Texas A&M (Chavis is going to build a monster) at the line of scrimmage. We can however recruit undersized speed guys that can make plays in space. If I was looking at how I thought I could compete in the SEC-West in a less than ideal recruiting situation (comparative to my competition), I would be running a shotgun quick pass offense to overcome my weakness at the point of attack. Think of how two good one-cut backs like RWIII and Whaley could be in a zone shotgun run scheme?

There may be years like last year when we have a solidified group that can manage the line of scrimmage with the elite of the SEC, but I don't think we'll ever be able to depend on that year to year.

I'm still behind coach B 100%, but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't trade him for a Chip Kelly type (he'll be open in a year or two after the SF stint).

[razorbackchamps94]

Simple answer : NO

[JustoHogFan]

Our philosophy was not the problem tonight, it was our coaching and lack of quality players at key positions on the oline and everywhere on defense.

[jcharkansas]

We just won't ever be able to compete without the type of talent these other teams are getting

[jh0486]

Our philosophy was not the problem tonight, it was our coaching and lack of quality players at key positions on the oline and everywhere on defense.

28 points of turnovers is what really lost us this game.. but I think anytime someone takes away the run game, we've already lost. There are alot of teams that can take away our run game on a consistent basis.

[Hog Solo]

There have been valid complaints in the past recruiting cycle that we failed to recruit enough quality o lineman.  Completely dropped the ball last year in terms of quality and quantity.

[Hog Solo]

We just won't ever be able to compete without the type of talent these other teams are getting

Quality wise yes, but last year we even failed to recruit enough 3 star olineman.  A lot of that is on our o line coach who jumped ship.

[Atlhogfan1]

We will not beat Bama with talent.

We scored 30 with 2 olinemen and a lot of mistakes and Bama getting away with their usual contact in the secondary.

Saban is old and won't be there forever.

Chavis is overrated.  A&M would be a grease fire if Knight had not have transferred.

Think our D is bad now, put them on the field more often. 

[JackTNHogfan]

I'm thinking the same way with a few exceptions... If we have the biggest O Line in all of football we could beat bama.  That didn't work?  Ok well what if we hire a rising star in the coaching ranks with a nfl and big ten pedigree?  Crap that still isn't working.  Ok final thing, what if we take a 4 star DL recruit from Denmark and make him a starting LG as a true sophomore?  Seriously the coaches are going are going to have to address this but I'm sure they are content with 7-8 win seasons because they know Arkansas can only produce that amount of wins per year.  Oh wait someone else was winning 10-11?  Damnit I've got nothing!

[ChicoHog]

Whoever hires Chip Kelly will be on probation in a couple years.  Plus he is an arrogant prick, kind of similar to Petrino in that regard. 

I agree that a mobile QB like Hurts is a definite advantage but the problem is more on the defensive side.  That means better recruiting especially.  How many tackles does Bama miss a game?  2 or 3 maybe?   We miss that many in a series and that is mostly athletic ability.  Bama is bigger , stronger and faster and I would say smarter too.  They seemed to know where the play was going more often than not.  Great players with great coaches makes a championship contender. 

[jh0486]

We just won't ever be able to compete without the type of talent these other teams are getting

In our current scheme, yes.

We've seen teams like Oregon go toe to toe with teams loaded with NFL talent and win or play them close. How many first rounders did Chip have at Oregon? Matthews, Jordan, and Kyle Long are the only ones I can think of.. Yet they gave Cam, Fairley, etc.. all they wanted in the national championship.

[gawntrail]

A glaring fact is that winning percentage when down 14 or more..... Something like 2-18.  Whoa. 

[tzthib]

Recruiting is only part of the problem. Tackling is a skill that can be taught, and you don't see much great tackling on this team.  That's on the coaches.

[kiddhog]

i like CBB ... but the best we will ever do with him is 9 wins .... maybe and a big maybe 10 wins once in a blue moon. but we will be closer to 6-7 wins year in year out with Brett.  but hey we will win (infrequently the right way !) ....

[jh0486]

Recruiting is only part of the problem. Tackling is a skill that can be taught, and you don't see much great tackling on this team.  That's on the coaches.

I'm not on the defense as bad as most people are tonight. They created some turnovers and would have given us a chance to be competitive. Alabama only scored 21 points unassisted. The defense was left on the field for the entire first half and put in bad positions by turnovers. Our secondary aren't great tacklers, but they are probably the best cover group we've had in a while. They made some amazing plays before the A&M game got out of hand. They only allowed around 100 yds and one score in the second half. For people that say we play too basic of a defense.. We are running the defense for the personnel that we have. Running an attacking defense without attacking players would be even worse. We don't have any linebackers or standup ends that can rush the edge fast enough to make it work... simple as that.

As much of a dumpster fire as Lane Kiffin seems to be, he's a really good play caller. They attacked the edges with the run in the first couple of drives, forcing us to play outside leverage, and then would run off-tackles to take advantage of the seams being created. The second half he knew we would adjust and likely leave the middle of the field open and they hit us there.

[Atlhogfan1]

I'm a Coach B guy but I want us to bring in a new head coach who runs the soft finesse hurry up offense and put our defense on the field as much as possible.  That really tells you I am a Coach B guy. 

[ChicoHog]

In our current scheme, yes.

We've seen teams like Oregon go toe to toe with teams loaded with NFL talent and win or play them close. How many first rounders did Chip have at Oregon? Matthews, Jordan, and Kyle Long are the only ones I can think of.. Yet they gave Cam, Fairley, etc.. all they wanted in the national championship.

They had a lot talent and most importantly Marcus Mariotta.  It will be tough for Oregon to regain their magic unless they get another Mariotta at QB and recuit better.  One of the reasons they have not recruited as well the last couple of years is USC is off probation, the other schools in the Pac 12 are getting much better facilities to compete with Nike University (Oregon) and teams have figured out how to play against them also. Now with UW getting back on track that is another school in their geographical area to compete for recruits.  I think they will be an average to above average program for a while. 

[HatfieldHog]

Guys, or strength and athleticism wasn't even close to that of Alabama tonight.  We got outran, out jumped, bull rushed, faked out, and man handled all night long. 

It was beyond description.  I don't know if we are that bad, or Bama is 2 TD's better than everybody else in the country, but tonight, we were embarrassed.

See ya

[jh0486]

I'm a Coach B guy but I want us to bring in a new head coach who runs the soft finesse hurry up offense and put our defense on the field as much as possible.  That really tells you I am a Coach B guy.

I like the guy, yes. Is he being paid millions of dollars to compete in the SEC West, yes.

A spread offense doesn't have to be finesse. Urban Meyer and now Saban seems to run a pretty physical spread.

We had 15 more minutes TOP tonight.. that seemed to be the deciding factor........

[colbs]

Not sure why people think it's the style of play that is the problem.  The defense couldn't stop them and the offense had too many turnovers.  Also,  Bama runs a different style offense than Arkansas.

[S.A.D.C]

I am not trying to defend that steaming pile of garbage we saw tonight BUT I would like to point out: style has nothing to do with beating Bama.  They have beat and often crushed teams that play every style imaginable for 10 years now.  Including us when we played a different style.  Sure- they might lose a game - but be real:  what you saw tonight had little to do with style. 

[jh0486]

I am not trying to defend that steaming pile of garbage we saw tonight BUT I would like to point out: style has nothing to do with beating Bama.  They have beat and often crushed teams that play every style imaginable for 10 years now.  Including us when we played a different style.  Sure- they might lose a game - but be real:  what you saw tonight had little to do with style.

Ole Miss, Utah, OU, and Meyer are the only teams that have made Saban look un-prepared and literally beat them with no help from turnovers etc.. Just man to man beat them. I'm not going to debate that it may be by chance, but there is definitely a common theme to those teams.

[S.A.D.C]

Not sure why people think it's the style of play that is the problem.  The defense couldn't stop them and the offense had too many turnovers.  Also,  Bama runs a different style offense than Arkansas.

Because- look at how Alabama has struggled so much to beat teams that run the HU.... Err, wait, never mind...

[Atlhogfan1]

I like the guy, yes. Is he being paid millions of dollars to compete in the SEC West, yes.

A spread offense doesn't have to be finesse. Urban Meyer and now Saban seems to run a pretty physical spread.

We had 15 more minutes TOP tonight.. that seemed to be the deciding factor........

He has competed in the SECW the last 2 seasons.  We will this season.  I do not give a darn if he is fired.  Probably would be a good thing for him so he can move on.  Young guy and he could find a place where he could have success.  But don't pose as some supporter of his.  You didn't give us a spread offense coach like UM.  You gave us a suggestion of a Chip Kelly type. 

[S.A.D.C]

Ole Miss, Utah, and Meyer are the only teams that have made Saban look un-prepared and literally beat them with no help from turnovers etc.. Just man to man beat them. I'm not going to debate that it may be by chance, but there is definitely a common theme to those teams.

You mean like the 5 turn overs Bama had when they lost to Ole Miss last year?  Alabama has beaten far more spread teams over the last decade than they have lost to.  To say they have "trouble" with it is just not true.  They have the best players and the best coach- a combination than doesn't come together often.  They beat everyone- just loins at the record.  This is a historically great dynasty.

[Wild Bill Hog]

Beliema has built a middle tier SECW team.  This was the result that is seen when a mid-level team goes against a top-level team.  TAMU game was the same.

[Atlhogfan1]

Beliema has built a middle tier SECW team. 

Better than where he started then. 

[jh0486]

Because- look at how Alabama has struggled so much to beat teams that run the HU.... Err, wait, never mind...

I don't understand your pretentious stance here..

Lost 2009 Sugar Bowl to Utah Utes, 17–31 ^ (spread short-pass)
Won 2010 BCS National Championship Game against Texas Longhorns, 37–21 ^ (spread run) *
Won 2011 Capital One Bowl against Michigan State Spartans, 49–7 ^ (pro style)
Won 2012 BCS National Championship Game against LSU Tigers, 21–0 ^ (pro style run)
Won 2013 BCS National Championship Game against Notre Dame Fighting Irish, 42–14 ^ (pro style balance)
Lost 2014 Sugar Bowl to Oklahoma Sooners, 31–45 ^ (spread pass)
Lost 2015 Sugar Bowl to Ohio State Buckeyes, 35–42 ^ (spread balanced)
Won 2015 Cotton Bowl Classic against Michigan State Spartans, 38–0 ^ (pro-style balanced)
Won 2016 College Football Playoff National Championship against Clemson Tigers, 45–40 ^ (spread balanced)*

seems to me like it's clear that teams running spread and/or up tempo give the Tide alot more trouble.

Since 2009, in bowl games at least, they are 4-0 against pro style offenses with a combined score of 150-21.. meanwhile 2-3 vs spread teams.

[Wild Bill Hog]

Better than where he started then. 

LOL  After Smiles, who couldn't improve?

[Atlhogfan1]

I don't understand your pretentious stance here..

Lost 2009 Sugar Bowl to Utah Utes, 17–31 ^ (spread short-pass)
Won 2010 BCS National Championship Game against Texas Longhorns, 37–21 ^ (spread run) *
Won 2011 Capital One Bowl against Michigan State Spartans, 49–7 ^ (pro style)
Won 2012 BCS National Championship Game against LSU Tigers, 21–0 ^ (pro style run)
Won 2013 BCS National Championship Game against Notre Dame Fighting Irish, 42–14 ^ (pro style balance)
Lost 2014 Sugar Bowl to Oklahoma Sooners, 31–45 ^ (spread pass)
Lost 2015 Sugar Bowl to Ohio State Buckeyes, 35–42 ^ (spread balanced)
Won 2015 Cotton Bowl Classic against Michigan State Spartans, 38–0 ^ (pro-style balanced)
Won 2016 College Football Playoff National Championship against Clemson Tigers, 45–40 ^ (spread balanced)

seems to me like it's clear that teams running spread and/or up tempo give the Tide alot more trouble.

Oh St only postseason game they have lost with a Ch on the line.  Utah and OU were meaningless bowl games.  It helps to catch Bama when they aren't focused.  They were focused tonight after our last two matchups. 

[Hogs-n-Roses]

7-19  3 1/2 seasons!

[S.A.D.C]

I don't understand your pretentious stance here..

Lost 2009 Sugar Bowl to Utah Utes, 17–31 ^ (spread short-pass)
Won 2010 BCS National Championship Game against Texas Longhorns, 37–21 ^ (spread run) *
Won 2011 Capital One Bowl against Michigan State Spartans, 49–7 ^ (pro style)
Won 2012 BCS National Championship Game against LSU Tigers, 21–0 ^ (pro style run)
Won 2013 BCS National Championship Game against Notre Dame Fighting Irish, 42–14 ^ (pro style balance)
Lost 2014 Sugar Bowl to Oklahoma Sooners, 31–45 ^ (spread pass)
Lost 2015 Sugar Bowl to Ohio State Buckeyes, 35–42 ^ (spread balanced)
Won 2015 Cotton Bowl Classic against Michigan State Spartans, 38–0 ^ (pro-style balanced)
Won 2016 College Football Playoff National Championship against Clemson Tigers, 45–40 ^ (spread balanced)

seems to me like it's clear that teams running spread and/or up tempo give the Tide alot more trouble.

I think my stance is more obstinate than pretentious.  I am just tying to point out that if you look at their overall record (not just bowl games- some of which they had no interest at all in playing) these guys have beaten everyone. 

Besides: now Bama is running more spread elements in their offense. So in a way running the spread would actually be trying to "beat them at their own game." 

[Atlhogfan1]

7-19  3 1/2 seasons!

Such great context in your post.

[Arkansas Fan]

People really are retarded.

[jh0486]

I think my stance is more obstinate than pretentious.  I am just tying to point out that if you look at their overall record (not just bowl games- some of which they had no interest at all in playing) these guys have beaten everyone. 

Besides: now Bama is running more spread elements in their offense. So in a way running the spread would actually be trying to "beat them at their own game."

No, I used the exact word that I wanted to use. The facts don't back up your arguments. If you're telling me that Nick Saban doesn't want to win BCS bowl games or playoff games, I'm calling BS.

[Atlhogfan1]

No, I used the exact word that I wanted to use. The facts don't back up your arguments. If you're telling me that Nick Saban doesn't want to win BCS bowl games, I'm calling BS.

He doesn't play the games.

[DeltaHog66]

There's not a particular style that beats Bama consistently. Turnovers and IMO defensive scheme got us beat. 

[Hogs-n-Roses]

Such great context in your post.

Just the facts!

[Atlhogfan1]

Just the facts!

Useless without context. 

[S.A.D.C]

Oh, I'm sure Nick does.  But he doesn't actually play in them.

You haven't actually presented any stats.  You have presented the W-L record from 9 games over the last 8 years.  What is their record vs spread teams over ALL games in the last 9 years?  I bet those "stats" won't fit the narrative as well.

[Hogs-n-Roses]

People really are retarded.

Yea they are. They thought this was an 8-4 to 9-3 team. probably aren't really stupid people just very ignorant about football.

[jh0486]

Oh, I'm sure Nick does.  But he doesn't actually play in them.

You haven't actually presented any stats.  You have presented the W-L record from 9 games over the last 8 years.  What is their record vs spread teams over ALL games in the last 9 years?  I bet those "stats" won't fit the narrative as well.

I can, but I don't think I have to. That's not how this works. I've already presented actual data that proves my claim (Which was spread teams have more success against Nick Saban coached teams). You're on offense at the moment fam. If you don't score, I win.

I'll do 2015 & 2014 for you.. 3 losses Ole Miss: 2, Ohio State: 1 both spread. Sure, they beat some spread teams.. but no pro-style team beat them.

p.s.. what matters more than wins and losses?

[jh0486]

He has competed in the SECW the last 2 seasons.  We will this season.  I do not give a darn if he is fired.  Probably would be a good thing for him so he can move on.  Young guy and he could find a place where he could have success.  But don't pose as some supporter of his.  You didn't give us a spread offense coach like UM.  You gave us a suggestion of a Chip Kelly type.

That's fair. I did hint towards a Chip Kelly type. In my defense, the only difference between UM and Kelly is snaps per game. They both run a spread option. UM goes no-huddle when needed, Kelly goes no huddle every play.

[Iwastherein1969]

Yea they are. They thought this was an 8-4 to 9-3 team. probably aren't really stupid people just very ignorant about football.

Pretty strong statement about a team that is 4-2...I don't like your position on calling people who predicted 8-4 ignorant....one thing I've learned about Bielema coached teams is that they don't give up at any point in the season...make sure you are around at the end of the season so you can either call me ignorant or I can call you a self-righteous horse's behind....deal ?

[AUSTXHOG]

We played poorly in this game combined with lesser talent.  Not sure how the season will turn out,  but this team will not give up.


What flipping excuse does Texas have?  They have the ability to recruit top talent, and still suck.

[Wild Bill Hog]

Useless without context. 

Think maybe he was talking about wins and losses.  Not sure beyond that.

[ChicoHog]

That's fair. I did hint towards a Chip Kelly type. In my defense, the only difference between UM and Kelly is snaps per game. They both run a spread option. UM goes no-huddle when needed, Kelly goes no huddle every play.

Meyer offense scheme is much different than Kelly.  Kelly is all finesse while Meyer is much more power. 

[jm]

The offense is good enough to win a lot of games. The D needs a serious makeover

[Hogs-n-Roses]

Pretty strong statement about a team that is 4-2...I don't like your position on calling people who predicted 8-4 ignorant....one thing I've learned about Bielema coached teams is that they don't give up at any point in the season...make sure you are around at the end of the season so you can either call me ignorant or I can call you a self-righteous horse's behind....deal ?

I would respectfully ask the same to you. At the end of October and into Nov. we'll see. I said the ignorant statement in response to being called retarded.

[JJHog]

Won't ever recruit like Bama
Need tremendous evaluators and developers turning 3 stars into 5 stars