Goodbye one and done (ESPN article) click photo

[311Hog]

You hit it on the head. The most unAmerican thing ever. Time to stop giving the NCAA the power to take advantage of the kid.

dude the NCAA is not running this (they are d canoes) but in this one it is the NBA running this show.

[Hawg Red]

Why would he have lost money? He was a 5-star McDonald's All American. He could have either gone pro right away, or left after his Junior year.

Yeah, he would have been probably a mid first round pick out of high school. He was the #1 overall pick after his sophomore year and that comes with all kinds of non-NBA $$$. Waiting another year is probably 20-30 million lost for him (15 million at least, I'd guess). He'd have lost a lot of money either way because he'd have either entered at a less advantageous point or had to sacrifice a year of millions and millions because of an arbitrary age limit.

[311Hog]

i don't think some of you understand what a college is.  You talk as if they exist for the sole purpose of making these few basketball players the most money they possibly can which couldn't be further from the truth.

[razorback1829]

Why would he have lost money? He was a 5-star McDonald's All American. He could have either gone pro right away, or left after his Junior year.

Wasn't quite ready after his freshman season, came back and dominated, and went number 2. One more year in college, that doesn't happen.

[The_Iceman]

My proposal on a deal between the NBA and NCAA:

1) high school players can declare for the draft

2) if a player decides to go to college, he must stay 3 years or reach the age requirement before declaring for the draft, like college baseball.

3) basketball scholarships will be guaranteed for 3 years, not just one.

If some player like Gafford is in his 2nd NCAA season and averaging 18 pts, 12 rebounds, and 3 blks per game and would be a top 5 pick, they can buy insurance on their draft position to protect from loss. They will also have the ultimate insurance of having a debt free college degree (athletes who use their time wisely should graduate in 3 years, easy).

[razorback1829]

i don't think some of you understand what a college is.  You talk as if they exist for the sole purpose of making these few basketball players the most money they possibly can which couldn't be further from the truth.

Some guys have talent that others don't, and makin them stay in school isn't in their best interest. When it's time for these Silicon Valley guys to get out of colllege and pursue their dream, they drop out and some make billions. When it's time, it's time.

[311Hog]

Some guys have talent that others don't, and makin them stay in school isn't in their best interest. When it's time for these Silicon Valley guys to get out of colllege and pursue their dream, they drop out and some make billions. When it's time, it's time.

and i agree. As i said the NBA is dictating to the player and the NCAA what they can and can't do it isn't the college.

I am pretty sure the college would be perfectly fine with no "year requirement" i mean scholarships are only 1 year at a time anyway.

But the NBA is forcing colleges and college coaches to bend over backwards to try and keep kids eligible that have no business being in college or even want to be there for anything other than playing ball and chasing girls.

[razorback1829]

and i agree. As i said the NBA is dictating to the player and the NCAA what they can and can't do it isn't the college.

I am pretty sure the college would be perfectly fine with no "year requirement" i mean scholarships are only 1 year at a time anyway.

But the NBA is forcing colleges and college coaches to bend over backwards to try and keep kids eligible that have no business being in college or even want to be there for anything other than playing ball and chasing girls.

I agree, which is why hopefully they scrap the rule and the NCAA doesn't do baseball style rules. Just not needed for basketball.

[Hawg Red]

dude i think you are mistaken.

1. the NBA is in control of this, the one and done is THEIR rule.  College is going to college regardless if players leave at 1, 2, 3 years it doesn't matter to them.

I KNOW THE NBA CONTROLS THIS.

You guys are proposing the baseball model.

2. All the players you mention are the exception not the rule btw.  We aren't talking about them, we are talking about the other kids that are not "cant miss" talents they have a choice.  Go to the League forgo their college experience or commit to a specific length of time, 2 years 3 years what have you otherwise why would they gain entry into college? if they aren't even going to go to class.  You should watch the showtime documentary on Ben Simmons and see what his one and done year was like at LSU it isn't as good as you would think.

I think you're problem is "going to class." Most colleges have online courses. It's 2018, my man. Ben Simmons had to stay eligible just like anyone else.

3. Not all players infact MOST players will never sniff the NBA just like with the MLB most players never make it to the league, but at least they are more than on their way to a completed college degree.  That is the point.  Players are given scholarships as part of their incentive to go to college, if a kid never passes any classes what is the point of the scholarship? what is the point of going to school?

Again, you can get your college degree at any time. You cannot make money player professional basketball forever. Finite window. You can't be this thick. You think these kids don't pass any of their classes and they stay eligible? They all have to stay eligible. Most of these one-and-dones or two-and-dones leave in good academic standing or else schools like Kentucky would be getting hammered with scholarship losses.

[Hawg Red]

i don't think some of you understand what a college is.  You talk as if they exist for the sole purpose of making these few basketball players the most money they possibly can which couldn't be further from the truth.

College is exactly that for a lot of players, though. Not everyone is equipped to appreciate the opportunity to learn and get a degree. That's just a fact. But, you know what, that doesn't stop these schools from offering them scholarships, does it? So why wouldn't they take it and use it as a stepping stone? How many of these kids do you think get into these schools if they aren't athletes? So how you can expect them to realistically do anything with a degree or education at that point. Their best bet to is actually come back to school after their playing career is over when they've matured and experienced the world a bit. That way, they can truly make use of a college degree.

[Hawg Red]

and i agree. As i said the NBA is dictating to the player and the NCAA what they can and can't do it isn't the college.

I am pretty sure the college would be perfectly fine with no "year requirement" i mean scholarships are only 1 year at a time anyway.

But the NBA is forcing colleges and college coaches to bend over backwards to try and keep kids eligible that have no business being in college or even want to be there for anything other than playing ball and chasing girls.

And you want them to make them stay 3 years!!!

You make no sense.

And if you're just talking about 1-year college players, please consider how small of a % of players that actually is and realize how silly it is to make a rule that restricts so many more players just to eliminate the accommodate of maybe 20 players per year.

[311Hog]

I KNOW THE NBA CONTROLS THIS.

You guys are proposing the baseball model.

I think you're problem is "going to class." Most colleges have online courses. It's 2018, my man. Ben Simmons had to stay eligible just like anyone else.

Again, you can get your college degree at any time. You cannot make money player professional basketball forever. Finite window. You can't be this thick. You think these kids don't pass any of their classes and they stay eligible? They all have to stay eligible. Most of these one-and-dones or two-and-dones leave in good academic standing or else schools like Kentucky would be getting hammered with scholarship losses.

i am saying the baseball model is working and has worked.  That is it.  This one and done model is clearly not working and hasn't worked.

Ben Simmons hated his time at LSU if you would watch the show.  He was treated by the student body as if he was already an NBA player, he had to constantly watch what he said and did to steer clear of extra benefits, etc. and he didn't really go to class he was in school for a semester then college season was over and he moved on to a pre draft camp.  that is the point everyone else on campus knows they will be there for some time, they all want to finish to varying degrees of commitment, 1 and done kids know that this is a 5 month pit stop.

They take crap classes to get to 12 hours, and then done.  Maybe in the off chance of a 2 and done it gets a bit more complicated, but still there is 2 years worth of "fluff" in college if you want to find it anyone who has been to college knows this.  2 years of college fluff courses are as valuable as if you said you spent the last 2 years training to be a professional League of Legends player.

[Hawg Red]

i am saying the baseball model is working and has worked.  That is it.  This one and done model is clearly not working and hasn't worked.

And I'm saying college and pro baseball are much, much different than college and pro basketball. The games of baseball and basketball themselves are much different.

Ben Simmons hated his time at LSU if you would watch the show.  He was treated by the student body as if he was already an NBA player, he had to constantly watch what he said and did to steer clear of extra benefits, etc. and he didn't really go to class he was in school for a semester then college season was over and he moved on to a pre draft camp.  that is the point everyone else on campus knows they will be there for some time, they all want to finish to varying degrees of commitment, 1 and done kids know that this is a 5 month pit stop.

What's your point? I think we might agree that Ben Simmons shouldn't have been forced to play college ball (or in some other country or for peanuts in the D-League as alternatives to college ball).

They take crap classes to get to 12 hours, and then done.  Maybe in the off chance of a 2 and done it gets a bit more complicated, but still there is 2 years worth of "fluff" in college if you want to find it anyone who has been to college knows this.  2 years of college fluff courses are as valuable as if you said you spent the last 2 years training to be a professional League of Legends player.

And these players are just using college to get to the NBA. We agree there. I just happened to feel that that is perfectly fine. They're being used just like they are doing the using. No need to restrict everyone. Which is my point that there should be absolutely no age limit starting when a player's high school class graduates. Just like it used to be. Whether or not kids are making the wrong decision shouldn't be a factor. They're probably gonna find a way to do that somewhere in life, anyway. The NBA should be open to anyone once they're 18 because it's proven that has worked. It doesn't matter if some teams overdrafted a high school kid here and there (the bust rate, by the way, was very, very low for HS-to-pro players).

[hawg1221]

311hog, you posted a lot of good comments in this thread. I like it and tend to agree with you.

[Hawg Red]

My proposal on a deal between the NBA and NCAA:

1) high school players can declare for the draft

2) if a player decides to go to college, he must stay 3 years or reach the age requirement before declaring for the draft, like college baseball.

3) basketball scholarships will be guaranteed for 3 years, not just one.

If some player like Gafford is in his 2nd NCAA season and averaging 18 pts, 12 rebounds, and 3 blks per game and would be a top 5 pick, they can buy insurance on their draft position to protect from loss. They will also have the ultimate insurance of having a debt free college degree (athletes who use their time wisely should graduate in 3 years, easy).

So kids whose only goal in life is to play in the NBA are gonna know what degree to pick and graduate with that degree in 3 years. It takes a lot of kids 3 years in college just to decide what they really want to do. Such a tired, antiquated line of thinking.

They can come back and get that degree any time. Their clock is ticking RIGHT NOW on their body and athleticism. I'm sorry that it's in contract to the days of old where players played 3-4 years in the NCAA for nothing but the NBA pays a lot more now and that is going to be the #1 goal for most college basketball players. That's why you see a lot of basic degrees like Communications or Sports Management.

[Razorbackers]

My proposal on a deal between the NBA and NCAA:

1) high school players can declare for the draft

2) if a player decides to go to college, he must stay 3 years or reach the age requirement before declaring for the draft, like college baseball.

3) basketball scholarships will be guaranteed for 3 years, not just one.

If some player like Gafford is in his 2nd NCAA season and averaging 18 pts, 12 rebounds, and 3 blks per game and would be a top 5 pick, they can buy insurance on their draft position to protect from loss. They will also have the ultimate insurance of having a debt free college degree (athletes who use their time wisely should graduate in 3 years, easy).

Make it 2 years for basketball, and I'd be fine with it. 3 years is a long time for a sport where some kids are borderline good enough at 17 to be in the NBA.

[GuvHog]

My proposal on a deal between the NBA and NCAA:

1) high school players can declare for the draft

2) if a player decides to go to college, he must stay 3 years or reach the age requirement before declaring for the draft, like college baseball.

3) basketball scholarships will be guaranteed for 3 years, not just one.

If some player like Gafford is in his 2nd NCAA season and averaging 18 pts, 12 rebounds, and 3 blks per game and would be a top 5 pick, they can buy insurance on their draft position to protect from loss. They will also have the ultimate insurance of having a debt free college degree (athletes who use their time wisely should graduate in 3 years, easy).

I strongly disagree with #1. 18 year olds are not mentally and emotionally mature enough to play in the NBA

[Hawg Red]

https://fansided.com/2017/06/13/ncaa-baseball-junior-year-draft-rule-still-make-sense/

I spent over a decade working as an assistant athletic director for academics at a D-I university. I worked closely with the baseball team and saw many guys get picked up in the draft, including a guy who was taken fourth overall. Day 1 of the draft is always exciting, but then the phone calls start coming in on Day 2.

As the academic counselor for the athletic department, I was the one who received the calls from agents asking how many classes the guys had remaining in order to graduate. Once the number of classes was determined, an amount of money was identified to cover the costs for guys to eventually return to school to finish their degrees. This money was to be included in MLB contracts.

More often than not, guys that were really good ball players entered college knowing that they would likely go in the draft, and so they took a minimum number of classes to stay eligible rather than taking what was needed to graduate on time. Graduation was not the primary focus, rather it was getting through school until junior year. (This was often reflected in parents' attitudes as well; school was not the main focus even though these guys were getting $55k per year to attend). It also meant that guys would reach their junior year with one and a half to two years of coursework remaining to graduate, rather than a single year, which was much more expensive.

Hmm. How 'bout that...

[redleg]

I hope this is true! The one and done needs to go away!

[OS2 (SW) Razor Back]

The NBA is unwatchable to me.

[redleg]

I strongly disagree with #1. 18 year olds are not mentally and emotionally mature enough to play in the NBA

But they are to play in the MLB?

[riccoar]

So kids whose only goal in life is to play in the NBA are gonna know what degree to pick and graduate with that degree in 3 years. It takes a lot of kids 3 years in college just to decide what they really want to do. Such a tired, antiquated line of thinking.

They can come back and get that degree any time. Their clock is ticking RIGHT NOW on their body and athleticism. I'm sorry that it's in contract to the days of old where players played 3-4 years in the NCAA for nothing but the NBA pays a lot more now and that is going to be the #1 goal for most college basketball players. That's why you see a lot of basic degrees like Communications or Sports Management.

You do realize the majority of players in college will never see competition outside of college, right?  We are not interested in the guys who are going to make it and be there.  We are looking at people who flop with nothing to fall back on.  So, no education, no job, and no skill set.  How they gonna pay for the education they now need they were getting for free on scholarship?

[redleg]

GI Bill?.....If they flop and can't play in college because they went for the money at 18. 

[Hawg Red]

You do realize the majority of players in college will never see competition outside of college, right?  We are not interested in the guys who are going to make it and be there.  We are looking at people who flop with nothing to fall back on.  So, no education, no job, and no skill set.  How they gonna pay for the education they now need they were getting for free on scholarship?

Why is it anyone's job to look out for them and decide what is best for them? Making a kid stay 3 years in college doesn't mean they are going to have something to fall back on, so that is dumb reason to make an incredibly restrictive rule.

I mean, seriously? We're out here making rules to "protect the kids?" Riiiiiiiiiight. You just want players to have to stay in college for 3-4 years. That's it. That's all it is. You damn well pro athletes have been going broke for decades and decades, which means that players that stayed 3-4 years in college went pro and still went broke. How many of them used their degree after playing? How many of them even learned anything? It's all a farce. So why have this phony "looking out of the kids" reasoning?

Let these kids live their lives. If they don't make it play ball, they can go get a student loan like the rest of us. This isn't hard. But only one proposal here blocks kids from making millions for an arbitrary period of time. Surely you guys aren't posting all this with a straight face.

[hogsanity]

But they are to play in the MLB?

or the NHL

[311Hog]

https://fansided.com/2017/06/13/ncaa-baseball-junior-year-draft-rule-still-make-sense/

Hmm. How 'bout that...

yeah how about that.  Instead of leaving college with nothing in terms of credits, they left with it 75% complete to a degree.

I never said it was perfect i just said that the longer you went the less likely you will be able to "ignore" or skate by taking garbage courses.  Not every one graduates in 4 years some do in 3 some do in 6 it doesn't really matter what matters is those kids even if they weren't that "interested" in it got something tangible, something they can build on when the playing days are over.

[sickboy]

The rule should be simple. Let a kid declare for the draft any time he wants. If he doesn't get drafted or chooses not to sign, let him go play college ball if he likes, without penalty.

Kids should be able to test their value in the market without penalty. It's ridiculous.

[99toLife]

The rule should be simple. Let a kid declare for the draft any time he wants. If he doesn't get drafted or chooses not to sign, let him go play college ball if he likes, without penalty.

Kids should be able to test their value in the market without penalty. It's ridiculous.

Fine, but you lose your scholarship.

[sickboy]

I strongly disagree with #1. 18 year olds are not mentally and emotionally mature enough to play in the NBA

Since when was every kid the same? You can't blanket say something like that. If 18 year olds aren't mentally and emotionally mature enough to handle the NBA, then what in the hell is our military doing singing them up to protect our country?

[sickboy]

Fine, but you lose your scholarship.

Why? Why are we punishing the kids? I don't get it. Because you're not good enough to have played college sports, you feel the need to have a say in what they can and can't do?

[99toLife]

Why? Why are we punishing the kids? I don't get it. Because you're not good enough to have played college sports, you feel the need to have a say in what they can and can't do?

No but it screws up recruiting of future players if you have current players that say I'm going Oh I'm not going  I know I said I'm jumping ship but now I'm not and I want my scholarship back and reinstated.

[hogsanity]

No but it screws up recruiting of future players if you have current players that say I'm going Oh I'm not going  I know I said I'm jumping ship but now I'm not and I want my scholarship back and reinstated.

And that affects you how?

[razorback1829]

The rule should be simple. Let a kid declare for the draft any time he wants. If he doesn't get drafted or chooses not to sign, let him go play college ball if he likes, without penalty.

Kids should be able to test their value in the market without penalty. It's ridiculous.

Exactly. There shouldn't be any restrictions. Period. Let the kids live and make decisions.

[razorback1829]

No but it screws up recruiting of future players if you have current players that say I'm going Oh I'm not going  I know I said I'm jumping ship but now I'm not and I want my scholarship back and reinstated.

That's for the coaches to manage. They make enough money to know how to manage those situations. Don't punish the kid though.

[99toLife]

And that affects you how?

It doesn't affect me, but I did pay for my kids to attend UofA. and it will affect recruiting. Release their scholarship for another player and if they want to come back they pay.

[Hawg Red]

No but it screws up recruiting of future players if you have current players that say I'm going Oh I'm not going  I know I said I'm jumping ship but now I'm not and I want my scholarship back and reinstated.

Just like making up restrictive rules to "protect" kids from making "bad decisions," this is none of our business. That should not be a factor whatsoever.

[99toLife]

Just like making up restrictive rules to “protect” kids from making “bad decisions,” this is none of our business. That should not be a factor whatsoever.

Honestly I say pay the athletes in the major college sports, I could care less if they smoke weed or drink like a fish on the weekends, like many other students that take out loans to go to college do. Just go to class and pass your classes.   

[donbro]

Why is it anyone's job to look out for them and decide what is best for them? Making a kid stay 3 years in college doesn't mean they are going to have something to fall back on, so that is dumb reason to make an incredibly restrictive rule.

I mean, seriously? We're out here making rules to "protect the kids?" Riiiiiiiiiight. You just want players to have to stay in college for 3-4 years. That's it. That's all it is. You damn well pro athletes have been going broke for decades and decades, which means that players that stayed 3-4 years in college went pro and still went broke. How many of them used their degree after playing? How many of them even learned anything? It's all a farce. So why have this phony "looking out of the kids" reasoning?

Let these kids live their lives. If they don't make it play ball, they can go get a student loan like the rest of us. This isn't hard. But only one proposal here blocks kids from making millions for an arbitrary period of time. Surely you guys aren't posting all this with a straight face.

Yes they are

[hogsanity]

Honestly I say pay the athletes in the major college sports, I could care less if they smoke weed or drink like a fish on the weekends, like many other students that take out loans to go to college do. Just go to class and pass your classes.   

Title IX says Hello. If you pay the football players you are going to have to pay every female athlete.

[99toLife]

Title IX says Hello. If you pay the football players you are going to have to pay every female athlete.

Exactly, I know the issues. I still say pay all athletes on scholarship for any sport the same as Football and basketball and make all scholarships  equal in value.  .  I'm fully aware that swimming or golf or girls volleyball don't generate as much income as Football or Basketball. But they represent the University as a student athlete.

[ErieHog]

Another decision that will be bad for college basketball.

You think the quality of play is low now? See what happens when the best talent available forgoes it altogether.

[hogsanity]

Exactly, I know the issues. I still say pay all athletes on scholarship for any sport the same as Football and basketball and make all scholarships  equal in value.  .  I'm fully aware that swimming or golf or girls volleyball don't generate as much income as Football or Basketball. But they represent the University as a student athlete.

How are is that going to be done at a school that is already having to whore themselves out as rent a wins just to pay the bill for their entire sports program.

What I do not get is why any of you care. If a kid goes to college and after a year gets offered a job to leave school and go to work making whatever, do you want to stop them from doing that? Yet, because it might affect your team, you want players to be the property of the school for a period of time, and you want them punished for leaving early or even exploring leaving early. Pretty dang selfish attitude on the part of many posters here

[GuvHog]

But they are to play in the MLB?

They start off in the minor leagues and some move up to the major leagues. Most never leave the minor leagues.

[GuvHog]

Since when was every kid the same? You can't blanket say something like that. If 18 year olds aren't mentally and emotionally mature enough to handle the NBA, then what in the hell is our military doing singing them up to protect our country?

Yes you can say something like that. I've always believed that the minimum age to join the Military should be 21 and if the draft is ever re-instated, 21 should be the minimum age for it. As I said earlier, 18 year olds are not mentally and emotionally mature enough to be playing pro ball. When a player graduates from High School, they should have 2 choices:

(A) Go to an NBA Developmental league and play a minimum of 3 years at $28,000 a year then be eligible for the NBA Draft

or

(B) go to College for 3 years and become eligible for the draft after the Junior year.

Either choice would allow the high school graduates time to mature and become more stable before entering the NBA Draft.

[hulk hog]

Sucks that all they are about is the almighty dollar

Why does someone go to college? that is about the almighty dollar as well.  If you have the talent to be considered to play professionally you should have the opportunity to pursue it. I would say more 18 year olds are ready to play basketball professionally than any other sport.

[hogsanity]

They start off in the minor leagues and some move up to the major leagues. Most never leave the minor leagues.

But they get the OPPORTUNITY to do so right out of HS ( so do kids going into hockey ), and at much lower pay than we are talking about for even just making the g-league.  Why should basketball be any different.

[GuvHog]

Why? Why are we punishing the kids? I don't get it. Because you're not good enough to have played college sports, you feel the need to have a say in what they can and can't do?

We're not talking about punishing kids, we're talking about giving them the proper time to mentally and emotionally mature.

[mhsbc59]

So kids whose only goal in life is to play in the NBA are gonna know what degree to pick and graduate with that degree in 3 years. It takes a lot of kids 3 years in college just to decide what they really want to do. Such a tired, antiquated line of thinking.

They can come back and get that degree any time. Their clock is ticking RIGHT NOW on their body and athleticism. I'm sorry that it's in contract to the days of old where players played 3-4 years in the NCAA for nothing but the NBA pays a lot more now and that is going to be the #1 goal for most college basketball players. That's why you see a lot of basic degrees like Communications or Sports Management.

The fact is only a hand full of people every year, literally a hand full will ever make it as an NBA player.  I'm sick and tired of people feeling sorry for kids that get free rides and waste them.  The world is not soft, but Americans are becoming softer than goose crap.  If they want to risk it, let them. If there one of the hand full so be it, if there not I'm sure uncle Sam will be picking up there tab in a year or two.  "But what about injuries" some say. Is it any less sad when anyone is hurt so bad they cant do anything athletic anymore.  I'm ready to sit back and watch the world burn and i dont think i will have to wait much longer.

[sickboy]

Yes you can say something like that. I've always believed that the minimum age to join the Military should be 21 and if the draft is ever re-instated, 21 should be the minimum age for it. As I said earlier, 18 year olds are not mentally and emotionally mature enough to be playing pro ball. When a player graduates from High School, they should have 2 choices:

(A) Go to an NBA Developmental league and play a minimum of 3 years at $28,000 a year then be eligible for the NBA Draft

or

(B) go to College for 3 years and become eligible for the draft after the Junior year.

Either choice would allow the high school graduates time to mature and become more stable before entering the NBA Draft.

Hey, I ain't mad at that.

Only issue is the three years. In my industry, people sign three year contracts because we don't run on seasons. But in the sports world, contracts are built around seasons. That and a player's career could be over with one injury. So locking these kids into three years doesn't make sense to me.

Make contracts and scholarships year to year and let both development league and college players test their NBA draft stock freely, but with the option to resign to their league team, and I'd be on board.

[sickboy]

We're not talking about punishing kids, we're talking about giving them the proper time to mentally and emotionally mature.

You are. The person I was responding too wasn't.